"When you've lost the entrepreneurs, free-spirits, and dreamers, you've lost the Golden State."

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    Apr 29, 2012 5:56 AM GMT
    http://reason.com/archives/2012/04/27/how-big-government-is-killing-california

    Four million more people have left California for other states than have come here from other states in the past two decades, according to demographer Joel Kotkin. The population growth has been coming mainly from immigrants and births from people already living here, but now the USC study shows that immigrants are going elsewhere. A cynic might say that California’s liberal elites have ended the state’s contentious battles over illegal immigration by destroying opportunities here.

    Kotkin, an old-time liberal, sees troubling trends. “Basically, if you don’t own a piece of Facebook or Google and you haven’t robbed a bank and don't have rich parents, then your chances of being able to buy a house or raise a family in the Bay Area or in most of coastal California is pretty weak,” he said in a recent Wall Street Journal interview. “The new regime wants to destroy the essential reason why people move to California in order to protect their own lifestyles.” He says the state is run for the benefit of the very rich, the very poor, and public employees.

    This is not a healthy society. And the demographic changes point to an aging population. Far from reducing the burdens on the state government, this will increase them. State officials are not building to meet future needs, but they have been squandering future dollars on excessive pay and pension packages for public employees. Look for a coming battle between services for lower-income Californians and retirement benefits for the most powerful special interest group in the state, public employees.
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    Apr 29, 2012 6:01 AM GMT
    riddler78 said"When you've lost the entrepreneurs, free-spirits, and dreamers, you've lost the Golden State entered liberal arts college."
    Fixed.
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    Apr 29, 2012 6:05 AM GMT
    paulflexes said
    riddler78 said"When you've lost the entrepreneurs, free-spirits, and dreamers, you've lost the Golden State entered liberal arts college."
    Fixed.


    lol
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    Apr 29, 2012 1:28 PM GMT
    I lived in CA, and I know this to be true.

    REASON.COM
    Kotkin, an old-time liberal, sees troubling trends. “Basically, if you don’t own a piece of Facebook or Google and you haven’t robbed a bank and don't have rich parents, then your chances of being able to buy a house or raise a family in the Bay Area or in most of coastal California is pretty weak,”


    Pretty much. A starter condo in SF sells for $500,000...leaving you an annual tax bill of $6,000. The license plate renewal fee is $600 or more if you have a good car. The sales tax rate is 8.5% for SF. Then the state income tax is 9.3%.

    Where does it go? Well...bus drivers in SF are unionized, and often make more than programmers in Silicon Valley. Add in their job security, retirement pensions and vacations, and it's not even close. And guess who pays for that?

    I moved to FL and love it here. No state income tax. Sales tax is 6% and property taxes are under $2,000/yr for most properties. And we don't lack for services. The roads are far better than the pothole ridden ones in SF. We have a huge gay community here in Fort Lauderdale, and the city/county government is gay friendly. Our county hospitals are better. I see far, far fewer homeless people here too.

  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Apr 29, 2012 3:07 PM GMT
    There has never been the symbiotic relationship in the statement "live, work, and play" that is so often alluded to by real estate marketeers. They attempt to convey the concept that there is a symbiotic advantage between the elements "a place where one lives", "a place where one works, i.e. the polar opposite of one who is dependent on 'state'," and "the place where one plays."

    In a stste where there are vast swaths of the population where the functional illiteracy rate is over 80%, any hope of a thriving populace is simply a joke. When one looks to establish a business that is labor intensive, yet low skill, does this level of illteracy drive businesses away? Absolutely. Take heart however, the Liberal can blame schools and not low I.Q.

    Take a look at motivated highly educated and high I.Q. engineers and designers. These folks design the iPhone. The iPhone however is manufactured in the very literate China, with profits flowing back to freedom loving Taiwan. Apple gets its' cut but is incrporated in Delaware and several dozen other states and countries, breaking up cash flows that do not settle out taxes in California's Treasury.

    People make an area or state what it is. California is the Liberal Dream state. The Liberal Dream State is typified by constant need less the ability to feed the need. As long as individuals and corporations exist to feed the need, the Liberal state exists. The Liberal Lie is that in a democracy individuals with the ability to feed the Liberal Need also have the right to enfluence government and shut off feed to the absurd belief that Liberals are the Elite and EVERYONE else only exists to feed the Liberal Need.

    I am seen by Liberals as the Modern Slave, hardly black and ignorantr, but and object. A less-than-human creature whose sole purpose is to serve the Liberals. Don't believe it? Step back and read the hundreds of posts from guys like Christian73, TropicalMark, DoomsDayAlpaca, and dozens of others. These guys deserve California.

    To you guys on RJ who are not nor never will be blinded by the Liberal Curse, there is hope. A world exists where large global corporations stretch across multiple borders. The survivors of the Socialist Liberal War perpetrated by the world's real thugs -- like those mentioned above-- thrive in many local's. For every dollar (or Franc) the Liberal seeks driven by their addiction, I move one somewhere lese. And if you think I'm alone you are simply crazy as hell.

    Go for it California!! There will be a day when the grip of Liberal Evil burns itself to a crisp. Let's just hope it carries all of their kind with them.

    (Sermon? icon_question.gif )
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    Apr 29, 2012 3:22 PM GMT
    Several years ago, a good friend who owned a very profitable factory moved the factory from California to Florida. He couldn't stand the politics here. I have stayed because I love many things about the area: the weather, beaches, mountains, proximity to a major international airport, etc. I have had the luxury of remaining here because my lifestyle is not impacted by the insanity of liberal policies and union domination of state government. But I know that by staying along with others in similar situations, we are empowering the government to pursue their insanity. If we all left and the state ran out of further means to support its addictions, it would spiral down even faster. But neither party in power in Washington would stand by and not help after the fact, so we all will pay for California in any case.
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    Apr 29, 2012 4:21 PM GMT
    "In a stste where there are vast swaths of the population where the functional illiteracy rate is over 80%, any hope of a thriving populace is simply a joke."


    "I am seen by Liberals as the Modern Slave, hardly black and ignorantr, but and object."


    Now, you said something about illiteracy?

    O.o

    http://nces.ed.gov/naal/estimates/StateEstimates.aspx


    Select 'all States' on the left box and then hit 'go'.
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    Apr 29, 2012 4:29 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidSeveral years ago, a good friend who owned a very profitable factory moved the factory from California to Florida. He couldn't stand the politics here. I have stayed because I love many things about the area: the weather, beaches, mountains, proximity to a major international airport, etc. I have had the luxury of remaining here because my lifestyle is not impacted by the insanity of liberal policies and union domination of state government. But I know that by staying along with others in similar situations, we are empowering the government to pursue their insanity. If we all left and the state ran out of further means to support its addictions, it would spiral down even faster. But neither party in power in Washington would stand by and not help after the fact, so we all will pay for California in any case.


    Just one example of that insanity...In San Francisco, you hear the constant whir of Fire Department trucks and ambulances. Quite often, they're responding to somebody calling because a bum has passed out on the sidewalk from too much booze or drugs. They take him to the SF General ER. They run all kinds of tests on him, feed him a meal or two. He sobers up. They clean him up, give him a shave and then he's back on the street...panhandling for more booze/drug money. Rinse/repeat. And who picks up the tab? I've read in the paper that some bums make 40 or 50 ER trips or more in a single year. One guy can cost taxpayers over a million dollars.

    Insanity right? Well, then you dig deeper and find the nurses/EMT/police/fire unions actually toss roadblocks into any solution. In their eyes, the bum is their ticket to hiring more unionized staff. So it's double insanity. This isn't a dig at the individual workers...but rather the system and "administrators" who promote it. And if the bum doesn't get Hyatt Regency level service, you're got the lawyers waiting to sue the deep pocketed city.

  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Apr 29, 2012 8:29 PM GMT
    White4DarkerFL said
    socalfitness saidSeveral years ago, a good friend who owned a very profitable factory moved the factory from California to Florida. He couldn't stand the politics here. I have stayed because I love many things about the area: the weather, beaches, mountains, proximity to a major international airport, etc. I have had the luxury of remaining here because my lifestyle is not impacted by the insanity of liberal policies and union domination of state government. But I know that by staying along with others in similar situations, we are empowering the government to pursue their insanity. If we all left and the state ran out of further means to support its addictions, it would spiral down even faster. But neither party in power in Washington would stand by and not help after the fact, so we all will pay for California in any case.


    Just one example of that insanity...In San Francisco, you hear the constant whir of Fire Department trucks and ambulances. Quite often, they're responding to somebody calling because a bum has passed out on the sidewalk from too much booze or drugs. They take him to the SF General ER. They run all kinds of tests on him, feed him a meal or two. He sobers up. They clean him up, give him a shave and then he's back on the street...panhandling for more booze/drug money. Rinse/repeat. And who picks up the tab? I've read in the paper that some bums make 40 or 50 ER trips or more in a single year. One guy can cost taxpayers over a million dollars.

    Insanity right? Well, then you dig deeper and find the nurses/EMT/police/fire unions actually toss roadblocks into any solution. In their eyes, the bum is their ticket to hiring more unionized staff. So it's double insanity. This isn't a dig at the individual workers...but rather the system and "administrators" who promote it. And if the bum doesn't get Hyatt Regency level service, you're got the lawyers waiting to sue the deep pocketed city.



    There's an old word for that I will not use here. It is actually a universal word not tied to any particular people, other than the bum you used in your comment.
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    Apr 29, 2012 8:43 PM GMT
    I still miss the natural beauty of the topography. Still soothes my inner hippy. When the time comes that I have no family back here to care for, I’ll probably go back or maybe NoCal or as far north as Portland

    I will say that life is comparatively easy around here plus I’m well accepted and fit in well. I was bummed to see that out of the 3141 counties in the county that we rank only number 11, ranked by the most conservative. Certainly we can make the top five.

    http://dailycaller.com/2010/03/19/americas-top-20-conservative-friendly-counties/

    I guess it expains why its so queer/homo/faggy around here.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/07/20/the-20-gayest-cities-in-america.html

    http://614columbus.com/article/why-is-columbus-so-gay-2153/

    http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2011/07/12/story-columbus-gay-friendly-city.html

    Makes perfect sense to me.




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    Apr 30, 2012 2:46 AM GMT
    socalfitness saidSeveral years ago, a good friend who owned a very profitable factory moved the factory from California to Florida. He couldn't stand the politics here. I have stayed because I love many things about the area: the weather, beaches, mountains, proximity to a major international airport, etc. I have had the luxury of remaining here because my lifestyle is not impacted by the insanity of liberal policies and union domination of state government. But I know that by staying along with others in similar situations, we are empowering the government to pursue their insanity. If we all left and the state ran out of further means to support its addictions, it would spiral down even faster. But neither party in power in Washington would stand by and not help after the fact, so we all will pay for California in any case.


    I hope you're wrong about not standing by. If the feds have to bailout California, that means they also have to bail out New York, New Jersey, and Illinois... is there enough money to do so?

    And then there's this:
    http://reason.com/archives/2011/12/05/californias-public-pension-disaster

    I'd hate to be a taxpayer in California in the coming years.
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    Apr 30, 2012 3:10 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    socalfitness saidSeveral years ago, a good friend who owned a very profitable factory moved the factory from California to Florida. He couldn't stand the politics here. I have stayed because I love many things about the area: the weather, beaches, mountains, proximity to a major international airport, etc. I have had the luxury of remaining here because my lifestyle is not impacted by the insanity of liberal policies and union domination of state government. But I know that by staying along with others in similar situations, we are empowering the government to pursue their insanity. If we all left and the state ran out of further means to support its addictions, it would spiral down even faster. But neither party in power in Washington would stand by and not help after the fact, so we all will pay for California in any case.


    I hope you're wrong about not standing by. If the feds have to bailout California, that means they also have to bail out New York, New Jersey, and Illinois... is there enough money to do so?

    And then there's this:
    http://reason.com/archives/2011/12/05/californias-public-pension-disaster

    I'd hate to be a taxpayer in California in the coming years.

    Won't be a picnic, but if California raised the taxes more, businesses and those with the means would flee. So it would come down to the federal government bailing out California, et al. Where would the money come from? The Federal government would have to borrow more. That's why reducing the current debt is so important now. Only one budget plan has been put on the table to do that, and we know how the big spenders are squealing about that. But without a means to reduce the current Federal debt, with the added debt incurred to bail out the states, could be a catastrophe. Really sad to hear some on the left say there's no problem and plenty of money. That's why we are borrowing so much today. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Apr 30, 2012 4:45 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    riddler78 said
    socalfitness saidSeveral years ago, a good friend who owned a very profitable factory moved the factory from California to Florida. He couldn't stand the politics here. I have stayed because I love many things about the area: the weather, beaches, mountains, proximity to a major international airport, etc. I have had the luxury of remaining here because my lifestyle is not impacted by the insanity of liberal policies and union domination of state government. But I know that by staying along with others in similar situations, we are empowering the government to pursue their insanity. If we all left and the state ran out of further means to support its addictions, it would spiral down even faster. But neither party in power in Washington would stand by and not help after the fact, so we all will pay for California in any case.


    I hope you're wrong about not standing by. If the feds have to bailout California, that means they also have to bail out New York, New Jersey, and Illinois... is there enough money to do so?

    And then there's this:
    http://reason.com/archives/2011/12/05/californias-public-pension-disaster

    I'd hate to be a taxpayer in California in the coming years.

    Won't be a picnic, but if California raised the taxes more, businesses and those with the means would flee. So it would come down to the federal government bailing out California, et al. Where would the money come from? The Federal government would have to borrow more. That's why reducing the current debt is so important now. Only one budget plan has been put on the table to do that, and we know how the big spenders are squealing about that. But without a means to reduce the current Federal debt, with the added debt incurred to bail out the states, could be a catastrophe. Really sad to hear some on the left say there's no problem and plenty of money. That's why we are borrowing so much today. icon_rolleyes.gif


    The alternative is that California will default and then be forced to live within its means. This of course will mean massive budget cuts without a funding mechanism that allows the state government in California to fund deficits. As I understand it, this has been done before in the US - long before.
  • jock_1

    Posts: 1491

    Apr 30, 2012 5:44 PM GMT
    White4DarkerFL saidI lived in CA, and I know this to be true.

    REASON.COM
    Kotkin, an old-time liberal, sees troubling trends. “Basically, if you don’t own a piece of Facebook or Google and you haven’t robbed a bank and don't have rich parents, then your chances of being able to buy a house or raise a family in the Bay Area or in most of coastal California is pretty weak,”


    Pretty much. A starter condo in SF sells for $500,000...leaving you an annual tax bill of $6,000. The license plate renewal fee is $600 or more if you have a good car. The sales tax rate is 8.5% for SF. Then the state income tax is 9.3%.

    Where does it go? Well...bus drivers in SF are unionized, and often make more than programmers in Silicon Valley. Add in their job security, retirement pensions and vacations, and it's not even close. And guess who pays for that?

    I moved to FL and love it here. No state income tax. Sales tax is 6% and property taxes are under $2,000/yr for most properties. And we don't lack for services. The roads are far better than the pothole ridden ones in SF. We have a huge gay community here in Fort Lauderdale, and the city/county government is gay friendly. Our county hospitals are better. I see far, far fewer homeless people here too.



    Exactly why our Governor passed reforms in our state of Wisconsin.....TO SAVE IT !!