Monogamy, LTR and other stuff...is it a myth

  • Shark100

    Posts: 234

    May 01, 2012 10:57 AM GMT
    Hi guys, this is the first time I do post a topic like this, however I would like to know what is your point of view.

    I am a conservative guy, just turned 30 and not much experience in the gay scene (almost null), had just 3 girlfriends in the past and it was good experience, however there was something wrong = I am gay and self denying of what I was. Now that I accepted myself through a very long process, been trying to meet guys and see if I could get a LTR, but it seems things are not doing well. Starting from the fact that I want a monogamous relationship or 1 to 1, which is not common in gay life as most guys like to try different dishes at once, the other thing is that it seems LTR sounds kinda scary for guys, at the end I feel disapponted and losing my faith in finding the "right one", maybe I am still thinking as heterosexual looking for a gf or a wife lol, and maybe it does not work in the gay dimension lol!!!, I also feel so frightenet to hook up with guys....the idea of having sex with guys I do not know scares me so much....did I mention that I have a phobia to STI's.

    I am not out and like to not be, at least until I find the right person to spend the rest of my life. I am smart, active, average look, staight acting and do not know why I can't make this gay thing work!

    So if you have some comments that MIGHT HELP would be great to hear from you!!!.

    Cheers
  • mikey_101

    Posts: 250

    May 01, 2012 11:07 AM GMT
    Be yourself,
    Hold your principles in high regards,
    Take your time,
    Dont rush............... it will happen.
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    May 01, 2012 11:17 AM GMT
    In my experience monogamy among males str8 or gay is a fable pushed by the church. The most successful gay couples i know--the ones who have been together for years--have some sort of open relationship. It doesn't mean it's a free-for-all in most cases but it allows for out natural mating drives without ruining the rest of a good relationship.

    If you are looking for that crap that Hollywood pushes: meet the one true love and you'll both be faithful and love each other and be sexually monogamous the rest of your lives, you are in fora long life of disappointment. Sex and love are not synonyms. They overlap yes, but they are not the same and it is damaging to all to treat them as such.
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    May 01, 2012 11:19 AM GMT
    Shark100 saidstaight acting


    That might be the problem. If you want to be gay, you should stop acting like you're straight.

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    May 01, 2012 11:36 AM GMT
    Your post reminds me of myself
    I also have almost 0 Xperience with guys and it scares me too..
    It scared me so much that I made myself believe to be Asexual..

    I want LTR so badly but yeah.. It's difficult to find one and on top of that there aren't many who are willing to go into relationships with closeted guys
    When I started accepting myself for who I really was, I started dating... With no idea what to expect..

    I dated to guys who i met over the internet
    my first date he only wanted sex.. (I ended that date very fast)
    the second one wanted me to out myself if I wanted LTR

    I was lucky to find someone without internet and actually he was the only one who seeked the same as me.. and didn't care if I was in the closet or the fridge icon_smile.gif
    But with this guy I felt more comfortable..

    So I think that's the most important part to take it slow, feel comfortable before going to bed with someone..

    I'm sure there are more people like us, but very difficult to meet one..

    Or it could be just because it took us so long to accept ourselves.. I believe that's the main reason why there's fear...
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    May 01, 2012 11:58 AM GMT
    JP is wise and has much good advice.

    I'd focus on his second and third points. Most guys in the closet are in transition - starting to acknowledge essential truths about themselves, but still a work in progress. They're uncertain, unpredictable, messy. Not terribly appealing as a long term partner to someone who's worked through those issues. I'm not saying tht you have to throw open the closet door in an explosion of sequins and glitter, but the more confident and self-assured you are, the more attractive you'll be to others. And you'll be happier, too.

    And to answer your question, no, they're not myths. icon_wink.gif

    Hugs.



    JPtheBITCH saidThere are several issues here:

    1. You're shopping for a boyfriend. That almost never works. When you're out on a date, a guy can tell if he's being sized up for husband material. Trust me, no one enjoys that feeling. Dating should be about having fun together (and no, I don't mean sex, though that can happen) while getting to know each other gradually. You sound like one of them lesbians who wants to bring a U-Haul to her second date.

    2. You have a chicken-and-egg problem, to wit: you only plan to come out if you meet a guy you think you will be serious about. But this is 2012, and most gay men don't want to bother with someone who is so frightened of his shadow that he wants to stay in the closet. So the guy you hope to come out for isn't interested in you because you're not out. Chicken - egg - chicken - egg --

    3. You say you accept who you are, but you don't sound very accepting. Describing yourself as 'straight-acting" means that you still think there's something better about being straight, something dirty and shameful about being gay. You'll probably deny this, but that is how it comes across---and these guys, the ones you want to date, see that too. Maybe you're not as accepting of yourself as you think. Yet.
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    May 01, 2012 12:11 PM GMT
    MuscledHorse saidIn my experience monogamy among males str8 or gay is a fable pushed by the church. The most successful gay couples i know--the ones who have been together for years--have some sort of open relationship. It doesn't mean it's a free-for-all in most cases but it allows for out natural mating drives without ruining the rest of a good relationship.


    Well, yes and no...I don't think exclusive closed relationships are something to be totally thrown off the table. I believe that different couples work best with different strategies. Some couples would thrive best with having open relationships, and others fare better when they're closed, and everything in between. It depends on who you're talking about. Just as everyone has unique personalities and quirks, relationships aren't factory-line made commodities that are all identical. They're like snowflakes, they come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and patterns. Different couples have different needs. So you figure out what those individualized needs are. icon_cool.gif
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    May 01, 2012 12:19 PM GMT
    I sort of agree. Though I would say that in my personal experience monogamy is more common early on, as it is difficult to build a commitment when you're always looking for play on the side. Some small degree of openness (whether talked about or not) usually comes into play later on, once the relationship has a foundation of stability. It is not always easy for one person to be the be all and end all over multiple decades. Whatever works to get a couple there earns my deepest respect, and it is different for every couple.

    Scotticus said
    MuscledHorse saidIn my experience monogamy among males str8 or gay is a fable pushed by the church. The most successful gay couples i know--the ones who have been together for years--have some sort of open relationship. It doesn't mean it's a free-for-all in most cases but it allows for out natural mating drives without ruining the rest of a good relationship.


    Well, yes and no...I don't think exclusive closed relationships are something to be totally thrown off the table. I believe that different couples work best with different strategies. Some couples would thrive best with having open relationships, and others fare better when they're closed, and everything in between. It depends on who you're talking about. Just as everyone has unique personalities and quirks, relationships aren't factory-line made commodities that are all identical. They're like snowflakes, they come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and patterns. Different couples have different needs. So you figure out what those individualized needs are. icon_cool.gif
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    May 01, 2012 12:51 PM GMT
    it's not a myth, but like all things, it depends on alot of variables.

    here's some thoughts:

    love and sex are not the same. sex is not intimacy. we need both though.

    different cultures create different things as being "the most intimate act". in some cultures, people will not eat in from of each other. it is too intimate. and some people view sex as just another bodily function, as inherently intimate as a bowel movement, or burping.

    is monogamy about emotional fidelity or physical fidelity? is it about avoiding disease? is depression not also a disease? do you care if your partner has a million webcam hookups as long as he never touches them? do you care if your partner is pounded out by everyone in town as long as he does not kiss them? or as long as it's not in YOUR town?

    the thing about being with someone for life is that if you fulfill that contract, one of you is going to leave the other behind on this planet. to some, that means you should be everything to that person....to others, it means you should not allow them to be so dependent they can't function if you are taken.

    all of these things are variables. and there are not right or wrong, except as determined by you and your partner. that's why "cheating" is not non-monogamy, it's breaking the rules you've set out and agreed upon, whatever they are.
  • DanOmatic

    Posts: 1155

    May 01, 2012 12:52 PM GMT
    I agree with JP on his excellent points, and I also subscribe to the notion that each relationship has its own unique qualities and needs. Some couples will be more monogamy-oriented, others less so. As long as both individuals are open and honest (and loving) with each other on their mutual goals and needs/wants, then the relationship--whether open or closed--can be a healthy and happy one.

    But yeah, baby steps.
  • newral

    Posts: 137

    May 01, 2012 3:44 PM GMT
    JPtheBITCH saidYou sound like one of them lesbians who wants to bring a U-Haul to her second date.


    lol icon_lol.gif so true. I've seen that happen first hand.
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    May 01, 2012 3:46 PM GMT
    Not a myth at all. Just hard to obtain at times.
    It's as real you are and as as real as you want it to be.
    All depends on you and what you're willing to do to have it.
  • MikemikeMike

    Posts: 6932

    May 01, 2012 3:50 PM GMT
    MuscledHorse saidIn my experience monogamy among males str8 or gay is a fable pushed by the church. The most successful gay couples i know--the ones who have been together for years--have some sort of open relationship. It doesn't mean it's a free-for-all in most cases but it allows for out natural mating drives without ruining the rest of a good relationship.

    If you are looking for that crap that Hollywood pushes: meet the one true love and you'll both be faithful and love each other and be sexually monogamous the rest of your lives, you are in fora long life of disappointment. Sex and love are not synonyms. They overlap yes, but they are not the same and it is damaging to all to treat them as such.


    Agreed!
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    May 01, 2012 4:48 PM GMT

    Conversely, in my religious upbringing and in the religious upbringing of friends and family in other christian denominations, sex and love are considered very different things. The first being bad and the second being good. I didn't buy into it.
    -Doug

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    May 01, 2012 5:02 PM GMT
    MikemikeMike said
    MuscledHorse saidIn my experience monogamy among males str8 or gay is a fable pushed by the church. The most successful gay couples i know--the ones who have been together for years--have some sort of open relationship. It doesn't mean it's a free-for-all in most cases but it allows for out natural mating drives without ruining the rest of a good relationship.

    If you are looking for that crap that Hollywood pushes: meet the one true love and you'll both be faithful and love each other and be sexually monogamous the rest of your lives, you are in fora long life of disappointment. Sex and love are not synonyms. They overlap yes, but they are not the same and it is damaging to all to treat them as such.


    Agreed!



    Disagree!

    The myth of the non committed man is perpetuated by women’s magazines.
    It is an easy explanation used to rationalise the failure of a relationship and ease heartache, rather than accepting the reality that 'he just wasn't into you'.
  • neosyllogy

    Posts: 1714

    May 01, 2012 5:04 PM GMT
    Monogamy is incredibly common among gays, even in urbanized and liberal areas. It is not nearly as common as with straights (in america anyway), but it is the large majority.

    That said the point at which you are considered as entering into a 'relationship' may differ from what you are used to. You can be seeing someone and even having sex but not be in any formal relationship. It's just a matter of communication.

    (That said, for philosophical reasons more even than practical ones, I much prefer open relationships. But they're certainly not for everyone.)
  • Mikesdays2

    Posts: 20

    May 01, 2012 6:29 PM GMT
    there is someone out there for you-trust me. dont buy into the sterotypes of 'gay life'. there are gay men just like you out there who are feeling the same.
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    May 01, 2012 6:50 PM GMT
    My partner and I (16 years) are monogamous.

    Part of it may depend on where you go to meet guys.
    The lowest common denominator - bars - isn't necessarily the place for LTRs.

    JPtheBITCH saidThere are several issues here:

    2. You have a chicken-and-egg problem, to wit: you only plan to come out if you meet a guy you think you will be serious about. But this is 2012, and most gay men don't want to bother with someone who is so frightened of his shadow that he wants to stay in the closet. So the guy you hope to come out for isn't interested in you because you're not out. Chicken - egg - chicken - egg --

    OR

    2B. The guy you want to date is also closeted and the two of you will never meet.
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    May 01, 2012 7:03 PM GMT
    Mikesdays2 saidthere is someone out there for you-trust me. dont buy into the sterotypes of 'gay life'. there are gay men just like you out there who are feeling the same.



    You'll never meet those kind of men. Those kind of men are always busy making online forums about those kind of men not existing.

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    May 01, 2012 7:05 PM GMT
    Wolverine4 saidMy partner and I (16 years) are monogamous.

    Part of it may depend on where you go to meet guys.
    The lowest common denominator - bars - isn't necessarily the place for LTRs.

    JPtheBITCH saidThere are several issues here:

    2. You have a chicken-and-egg problem, to wit: you only plan to come out if you meet a guy you think you will be serious about. But this is 2012, and most gay men don't want to bother with someone who is so frightened of his shadow that he wants to stay in the closet. So the guy you hope to come out for isn't interested in you because you're not out. Chicken - egg - chicken - egg --

    OR

    2B. The guy you want to date is also closeted and the two of you will never meet.


    Listen to the quoted sex beast. I hate the idea of meeting people in bars/grindr/manhunt etc etc. What do you have in common? Drinking and being gay? Not a great foundation for a relationship.

    Instead look for gay themed organizations that you enjoy. Will you find your love doing that? Probably not, but they can introduce you to plenty of people who could!
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    May 01, 2012 8:27 PM GMT
    JPtheBITCH saidThere are several issues here:{snip}

    You seem to have all the practical commonsense answers to issues in this thread and elsewhere. So why then do you consider yourself "difficult to live with", as you mentioned, in the other relationships thread? Just curious. icon_smile.gif
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    May 01, 2012 8:40 PM GMT
    JPtheBITCH saidThere are several issues here:

    2. You have a chicken-and-egg problem, to wit: you only plan to come out if you meet a guy you think you will be serious about. But this is 2012, and most gay men don't want to bother with someone who is so frightened of his shadow that he wants to stay in the closet. So the guy you hope to come out for isn't interested in you because you're not out. Chicken - egg - chicken - egg --



    #2 that JP describes is a big hurdle, an impediment to actually finding a quality guy. You really need to establish yourself, be secure in your identity, BEFORE you can enter into a lasting relationship. You chance at succeeding is very low otherwise.

    In addition, it's something that is going to take time, most likely. It was well over three years after the end of my last relationship that I found a guy (who's amazing!) that I'm at ease with, whom I trust absolutely, and who has brought a great deal of joy into my life!

    EDIT: Guys that are interested in LTR, monogamous relationships are out there. But most likely you're going to need to be out in order to be what they are also seeking.

    Good luck!!!
  • Shark100

    Posts: 234

    May 02, 2012 10:16 AM GMT
    Now its my turn tho, after one day 22 replies!!! not bad, thanks guys for taking time not only to read but also to add your comments and more important your points of view. Certainly I am not an expert on this, and probably never will, however as many of you wrote, I believe in my values, and even when they are not well accepted for some people, this is the way I was rised, believing that you should respect yourself and others...don't get me wrong, respect those who enjoy having open relatioships, a bit of fun on the side, after all sex is great and you are free to enjoy it as you please. Now, this guy wrote something interesting about heterosexual couples: when you have a girlfriend you are not having sex with others, or at least you try not to, so why in a homosexual relationship it must be accepted. I understand sex along the time becomes monotonous and even boring....as it occurs in an heterosexual relationship, of course this can be fixed in other ways rather than including third parties in bed, but once again it is a personal judgement.

    At this point I'd like to add a thought I had this morning. I wonder how would that be if my dad one day decided to have an open relationship out of marriage???, probably I would never had such a great family I have, and for that I am so grateful. Now I believe that LTR is not about looking for a wife or husband. LTR does not mean eternal commitment, of course if it occurs is great, but at least a relationship based in respect and honesty. I think I would like to know if my partner is sleeping with someone else, if he does at least I want to know he is looking after himself and me!!!, the fact that guys have sex out of the relationship is natural....as humans we tend to experience new and exciting things, but values are values and I can't change them!!!

    Sex= love, of course it is not, we learn this since primary lol!!!, but what comes first is another dilemma. I would like to believe that sex is esentially the result of finding a guy who attracts you ,not only in the phisical way but also in personal attributes (not a girly description of prince by the way), what im saying is a guy who you like to be with, enjoy a good session at the gym, have a beer at the pub, jokes, movies, dinner, rugby or footy.

    I read with interest these guys talking about their LTR and have to say guys, my respect to you. I wish I could meet guys like you more often lol.

    Finally, I certainly do not know if the chicken is first or the egg, probably it depends on what you want to choose, at the end it will become the other, opposite sides of the same coin. Therefore I do not discard that NSA sex can be satisfying, even tho exciting and adventurous, but at this time in life I rather go for something that maked my life more balanced emotionally and phisically.

    Take care everyone and once again, thank you!!!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 02, 2012 11:29 PM GMT
    I am in a similar situation as you. I want a totally monogamous relationship and am concerned with STDs and promiscuity. I am also not out at the moment, but just started to open up to dating.

    I've met three guys from a dating site and only went on one date with two of them. The third I have been dating for almost two months now. He is awesome and totally accepts that I am not out. He is out partially. He also does not fit the gay sex crazed stereotype. I am so lucky I found him as he was the first guy I ever had a date with.

    You will find the right guy. If you are using a dating site, make it clear about what you want and the standards you have. Then you'll get contacted by guys that are just like you. That's what I did and it worked out.
  • BardBear

    Posts: 533

    May 03, 2012 1:43 AM GMT
    If I may chime in. I've been with my partner for 12 years. We were friends online, at first, as we dated other people. But we did, eventually, get married. In a church. And legally. Long story that I posted, somewhere, here, recently, but I digress.

    I was brought up to be married and have children. Why would have to give up those things? Don't go looking for a partner. Instead, learn to like yourself. Do things you want to do and meet others who share your passions. From there, you're only a few steps away.

    And, anyone who tells you that "closed" relationships don't exist, screw them.

    No, not literally.

    But I've been with my husband for 12 years. Just the two of us. Yes, it can be a challenge. It helps he's my best friend and we have similar interests. But we've never had to resort to an "open" existence.

    You can have that too.

    Do you have to hook up? Nope. I do recommend being out more often and not getting caught up with how you are being perceived. Live some. Learn some. Love lots.

    Peace,
    Bardy