Sparks fly over Dan Savage's comments to students about Bible

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    May 02, 2012 1:44 PM GMT
    "Savage's speech, at a 3,000-student gathering of young journalists in Seattle, linked bullying of gay kids with biblical denunciations of homosexuality. Savage, noting the Bible also banned masturbation and the eating of shellfish, said, "We ignore the bullshit in the Bible about all sorts of things."

    When about two dozen students, and some advisers, walked out, Savage said, "I have a right to defend myself and to point out the hypocrisy" of biblical commandments."

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2018110513_savage01m.html

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    May 02, 2012 1:50 PM GMT
    Looks like some people don't like to hear the parts of the bible that could damage their lives, only the parts that condemn others. Let the non-vigins step forward, I go get stones.
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    May 02, 2012 2:44 PM GMT
    He's hot icon_smile.gif
  • copper64

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    May 02, 2012 2:50 PM GMT
    Seems to me that a guy is speaking on anti bullying, he is doing his own bullying.

    Bible may be outdated and wrong but why bash the kids that left.

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    May 02, 2012 2:54 PM GMT
    he's awesome and correct and fuck those backwards bigoted kids who left. they should be ashamed of themselves and they should be shamed publicly, humiliated for their intolerance, just as we would humiliate someone who espoused a doctrine of racism, sexism or bigotry toward ANY other group of people. bravo dan savage.

    they need to understand now that that kind of attitude has no place in society so they can open their eyes and come into the 21st century with the rest of us.
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    May 02, 2012 2:57 PM GMT
    copper64 saidSeems to me that a guy is speaking on anti bullying, he is doing his own bullying.

    Bible may be outdated and wrong but why bash the kids that left.



    Immoderate, but not bullying. Jeez, it's not like his views are some sort of big secret. Christians in the US, particularly fundamentalist christians, have a lot to answer for, when many of them continue to use their religious view to oppress a minority group - namely US. Too fucking bad.

  • Trajen1

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    May 02, 2012 2:58 PM GMT
    This man is a bully himself. Hypocritical bs. Love wins, this doesn't.
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    May 02, 2012 3:01 PM GMT
    Trajen1 saidThis man is a bully himself. Hypocritical bs. Love wins, this doesn't.


    Hardly. He speaks well, and thoughtfully. A bit of a provocateur, but then you can relate to that, can't you?
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    May 02, 2012 3:02 PM GMT
    in high school (pre-coming out) i remember a girl who said she wanted to see all the gay people put in camps and lined up and shot. (really)

    i shut that bitch down. i called her out on it and humiliated her in front of a bunch of people. bigoted, hateful people need to know that their incendiary comments will be met with an equally voracious response from those of us who will stand up and say something to defend ourselves.

    and while we're talking about it, when we see homophobia in action, or any prejudice for that matter, it's our DUTY to stand up and make that person feel like a fucking moron. That's how it gets better.
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    May 02, 2012 3:04 PM GMT
    Trajen1 saidThis man is a bully himself. Hypocritical bs. Love wins, this doesn't.



    Of course, none of the awful things said by Christian conservatives again and again is bullying, because that is their right. That bullying is love.
  • metta

    Posts: 39090

    May 02, 2012 3:16 PM GMT
    How does what he said make him a bully? He is giving his opinion of the bible. He is not trying to incite violence or hurt anyone. In fact, he is trying to protect people.




    Dan Savage Apologizes for Bullying During Anti-Bullying Speech

    "I would like to apologize for describing that walk out as a pansy-assed move. I wasn’t calling the handful of students who left pansies (2800+ students, most of them Christian, stayed and listened), just the walk-out itself. But that’s a distinction without a difference — kinda like when religious conservatives tells their gay friends that they ‘love the sinner, hate the sin. They’re often shocked when their gay friends get upset because, hey, they were making a distinction between the person (lovable!) and the person’s actions (not so much!). But gay people feel insulted by ‘love the sinner, hate the sin’ because it is insulting. Likewise, my use of ‘pansy-assed’ was insulting, it was name-calling, and it was wrong. And I apologize for saying it."

    http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/05/01/dan-savage-apologizes-for-bullying-during-anti-bullying-speech/
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    May 02, 2012 3:19 PM GMT
    Sigh. Yet another person talking about the Bible as if they know what they're talking about when they really don't and people buying what they say because they don't know anything about the Bible(as is evidenced in the applause). The Bible NEVER forbids masturbation. It only forbade eating shellfish as a Jewish ritual purity law. If you aren't a Jewish rabbi living 4,000 years ago, you don't need to be concerned with that passage. For Savage to call things in the Bible "bullshit"(especially things that aren't even in it) simply because of his own ignorance of the Bible, it just makes him look silly, intellectually dishonest and inflammatory. I would like to think these students walked out because he was lying about what the Bible says not just because a book they deem sacred was being trashed. Just like people should walk out of church when they hear a preacher saying the Bible says being a homosexual is a sin. The Bible doesn't say that either. I don't think there's ever been a book in the history of the world more trashed, mindlessly worshiped, hated, misinterpreted, misunderstood, abused, taken out of context and used by people ignorant of it to propagate their own bigotries, prejudices and personal agendas.
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    May 02, 2012 3:20 PM GMT
    I love Dan Savage! He is so ballsy
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    May 02, 2012 3:22 PM GMT
    The walkout of the students almost seemed orchestrated because nothing Dan Salvage said was all that offensive. I certainly don't think he was bullying anyone. He was merely pointing out some hypocrisy in the Bible (as he sees it) and I think the students walking out said a lot about them not being able to digest other opposing opinions. If this is the case, they will have difficulties all through life. I wish that those who walked out would have been asked WHY they walked out. What was it about Dan Salvage's presentation that they found so offensive? I don't think it would have been out of line for teachers to hold those students accountable to explaining their reasons for walking out, because this might have been able to get at the root of bigotry or hate as it may exist in that particular school. In fact, I don't think any student should have been allowed to leave until they explained WHY they felt they needed or wanted to leave. There should have been some healthy debate. Not just one speaker presenting a viewpoint, with the other side rejecting it with no explanation. This was a missed opportunity, in my opinion, on the part of the school to glean some feedback and information from the student's point of view.
  • metta

    Posts: 39090

    May 02, 2012 3:31 PM GMT
    Atlantamasseur saidSigh. Yet another person talking about the Bible as if they know what they're talking about when they really don't and people buying what they say because they don't know anything about the Bible(as is evidenced in the applause). The Bible NEVER forbids masturbation. It only forbade eating shellfish as a Jewish ritual purity law. If you aren't a Jewish rabbi living 4,000 years ago, you don't need to be concerned with that passage. For Savage to call things in the Bible "bullshit"(especially things that aren't even in it) simply because of his own ignorance of the Bible, it just makes him look silly, intellectually dishonest and inflammatory. I would like to think these students walked out because he was lying about what the Bible says not just because a book they deem sacred was being trashed. Just like people should walk out of church when they hear a preacher saying the Bible says being a homosexual is a sin. The Bible doesn't say that either. I don't think there's ever been a book in the history of the world more trashed, mindlessly worshiped, hated, misinterpreted, misunderstood, abused, taken out of context and used by people ignorant of it to propagate their own bigotries, prejudices and personal agendas.


    I think that you have some legitimate points here. You might want to consider writing him so that he is aware of this: mail@savagelove.net

    http://www.facebook.com/DanSavage
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    May 02, 2012 3:40 PM GMT
    I don't know how they plan on succeeding as objective journalists if they can't handle uncomfortable situations.
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    May 02, 2012 3:41 PM GMT
    Interesting how he does not at all faulter while the majority of the minor majority exited his lecture, yet he stumbles with the straggler who appeared to be struggling with her own thoughts about what was being said, seemingly wiping tears from her eye (1:23-1:31).

    PS, I was not familiar with what might have been a latin reference which I took to be some common Xtian expression and have trouble making out the words. Would someone please post what he said and if it is not English, please also translate. Thank you.
  • DesireIron

    Posts: 426

    May 02, 2012 3:45 PM GMT
    copper64 saidSeems to me that a guy is speaking on anti bullying, he is doing his own bullying.

    Bible may be outdated and wrong but why bash the kids that left.



    Cuz it's the only time someone is going to tell this to these kids. And they will grow up to be the next generation of anti gay hatemongers.
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    May 02, 2012 3:45 PM GMT
    showme said
    Trajen1 saidThis man is a bully himself. Hypocritical bs. Love wins, this doesn't.


    Hardly. He speaks well, and thoughtfully. A bit of a provocateur, but then you can relate to that, can't you?


    No matter the intention, hatred only begets more hatred. It doesn't matter if you think/know you are right, conveying a message with hatred will only keep the cycle going. If the cycle is to stop, someone has to willingly break it by letting the hate stop at them.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    May 02, 2012 3:46 PM GMT
    Dahas saidI don't know how they plan on succeeding as objective journalists if they can't handle uncomfortable situations.



    Exactly, which is why they should have had to answer for WHY they walked out. Are they going to walkout of press conferences they are assigned to cover one day when the subject matter becomes controversial?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 02, 2012 3:46 PM GMT
    THIS MAN IS A BITTER ASSHOLE
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    May 02, 2012 3:49 PM GMT
    Animus said
    showme said
    Trajen1 saidThis man is a bully himself. Hypocritical bs. Love wins, this doesn't.


    Hardly. He speaks well, and thoughtfully. A bit of a provocateur, but then you can relate to that, can't you?


    No matter the intention, hatred only begets more hatred. It doesn't matter if you think/know you are right, conveying a message with hatred will only keep the cycle going. If the cycle is to stop, someone has to willingly break it by letting the hate stop at them.


    Disagreeing with someone's positions and/or actions, or even expressing annoyance with them, is not necessarily the equivalent of hatred.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 02, 2012 3:51 PM GMT
    Dahas saidI don't know how they plan on succeeding as objective journalists if they can't handle uncomfortable situations.


    They will find themselves working for a local, weekly Christian tabloid.

    I worked for a short time for a Jewish one. It was very difficult to work there and I was only there for a short time. I'd hand in my story and then the editor would go as far as to change facts in order to better suit their target readers.

    Though frankly I found similar nonsense when I later worked for a daily paper which was not against leaning news away from hurting their advertisers.
  • Trajen1

    Posts: 115

    May 02, 2012 3:53 PM GMT
    JPtheBITCH said
    Trajen1 saidThis man is a bully himself. Hypocritical bs. Love wins, this doesn't.

    Wow.
    I kinda felt sorry for you in that other thread.
    Not anymore.


    Why, because I think that a response from a place of love is more ethical and efficient than bashing those who were leaving. Wow, I must really be a bad person for believing this. Thanks for pointing it out!
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    May 02, 2012 3:54 PM GMT
    Trajen1 said
    JPtheBITCH said
    Trajen1 saidThis man is a bully himself. Hypocritical bs. Love wins, this doesn't.

    Wow.
    I kinda felt sorry for you in that other thread.
    Not anymore.


    Why, because I think that a response from a place of love is more ethical and efficient than bashing those who were leaving. Wow, I must really be a bad person for believing this. Thanks for pointing it out!



    Even Dan Savage admitted that his response to the students who walked out was inappropriate.