Will Ohbama end up like Kennedy?

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    Jul 20, 2008 5:24 AM GMT
    After alot of thinking i have decided that i wasn't going to vote for Obama for president this year. True it would be a great mark in history, but the society we live in today is not ready for him. With this in mind it is my decision to remain neutral and not vote for anyone! Yes, i know it may seem kind of "ignorant" but it is what i feel most comfortable with doing at this waking moment.


    If Obama wins the election (prolly not) how do you figure american society react?
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    Jul 20, 2008 6:02 AM GMT
    I think if he can win, then society or a majority of it is ready for him. You can't pass on such an important opportunity because of what other people think, or what they might do.

    If people did not do the right thing in history because they thought other people would hate them, some of the greatest moments and advances in our history would not be made. I don't think any of those people would say, I will not do the right thing because people would hate me, even if they knew their ending. This is because when you see the greater good that is greater than yourself, you are willing to advance that good at great costs to yourself. It is the nature of self sacrifice that you see in acts of heroism.

    Let the dreamers dream, and the haters hate. The dreamers will move us in a better direction than the haters.
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    Jul 20, 2008 7:52 AM GMT
    People are never ready for change, it has to be given to them quickly and bluntly. Change is impacted on us, not decided upon easily. If America isn't ready for Obama, they will have to learn quickly. They didn't think they were ready for bussing, for marches, for laws, for rights beyond what their forefathers provided them. The process of man: comfort, forced change, accomodation, historical reference, progress, repeat. In the end, I'd rather we're not ready. If we are ready, why would need him in the first place. I want a leader that wants to make an impact, not one that doesn't take risk and sits idly by in ignorance of the mass array of progress needed in our society.
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    Jul 20, 2008 8:28 AM GMT
    First off, who is "Ohbama?"

    Secondly...you can never let ignorance stop you from dreaming. Yes, we still have a lot of idiots living in our society, but you know what...when WILL society "be ready" for him?

    No, Obama won't end up like Kennedy. I can't wait to vote for him.
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    Jul 20, 2008 8:29 AM GMT
    N_E_W_B_I_E said

    if Ohbama wins the election (prolly not) how do you figure american society react?


    Prolly not? Umm...have you looked at his competition up to this point?
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    Jul 20, 2008 8:49 AM GMT
    N_E_W_B_I_E saidAfter alot of thinking i have decided that i wasn't going to vote for Ohbama for president this year. True it would be a great mark in history, but the society we live in today is not ready for him.

    if Ohbama wins the election (prolly not) how do you figure american society react?


    Trying to merge the post with the thread title, and translating to make sure I understand what you're asking: are you saying you're not going to vote for Obama cause you think if he's elected he will be assassinated?

    If that's not the case, just ignore all the following, and perhaps restate your post?

    But if I DID translate correctly, can you explain why you might be a better judge of that possibility than he, his wife, and the army of Secret Service people advising him? Studies of Secret Service processes/techniques/skills in 2009 versus 1963 that show similar risks today? New psychographic data the campaign isn't privy to?

    What do you think Senator Obama would say to you if you told him you're not voting for him cause you don't want him shot? "Thanks for caring?"

    Are you just not going to vote, or write in some no-name candidate? Then that action will have very little effect on his being elected or not. Or are you going to vote for McCain, so that you actually act to prevent him from taking office?

    I don't understand how your assessment of his probability of winning ("prolly not") jives with your intention of not voting for him. If you think he's not going to win, then why do you think you need to withhold your vote to save his life?

    If your vote really was the deciding factor in the election, would you still trade 4 more years of Republican rule, an even more conservative Supreme court, and a President who is still "learning to go online" because you're afraid Obama might be shot?

    As someone who was just coming of age in politics when my candidate was shot (RFK), I'm obviously having a problem trying to find the logic in your decision.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19136

    Jul 20, 2008 9:14 AM GMT
    I don't think it's so much a matter of society being ready for a black President, as it is this particular black candidate having the necessary experience now to be President during these very troubled times. I think a black candidate is definitely electable, IF it's the right candidate, and America is ready for it and would embrace it. I'm not convinced Obama is the right one...that's not to say he wouldn't be down the line (2012 or 2016). Do we even know if he's been all that great of a Senator yet? He's been busy running for President most of his term.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jul 20, 2008 9:33 AM GMT
    N_E_W_B_I_E saidAfter alot of thinking i have decided that i wasn't going to vote for Ohbama for president this year. True it would be a great mark in history, but the society we live in today is not ready for him.




    How can you NOT vote for him?
    Are you ready for 5 - 6 - 7 dollar gasoline? Because the continued kowtowing toward the oil companies the republicans have been doing will lead us that way
    Are you ready for a war with Iran?
    Because Grampy will Definitely get us into conflict with them
    Are you ready for more of the same with the Mortgage and banking industry?
    Because the republicans with their deregulation policies are what got us into this mess in the first place

    You Cannot be a living breathing person on this earth and make the statement that you made
    "after alot of thinking i have decided that i wasn't going to vote for Ohbama"
    ... and me thinks the way you spelled his name tells me the reason why
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    Jul 20, 2008 12:24 PM GMT
    First of all, radical change only comes in this country during a perceived crisis. The Depression brought about the New Deal (and a FOUR-term president, the one and only).

    The Iranian hostage crisis brought about Reagan. One thing the righties never acknowledge is that Reagan was LOSING to Carter--yes, even to Carter--until the Iranian crisis had dragged on for over a year. The real turning point in that election was the failed rescue mission, where the helicopters crashed into the dust.

    And even after the election, polling showed that the country wasn't voting FOR Reagan, they were voting against Carter.

    This is why we will have a black president this year. Frankly, in this climate, if the Democrats had run a Martian, we'd have a Martian president. A lot of people (me included) are voting for Obama simply because we detest the Bush Crime Syndicate, and the Republican Party in general. Obama's true colors are showing, and they are annoyingly conservative.

    And for all you who say "oh, he has to tack to the right for now to pick up the moderates", my answer is: look at what he's actually done and said in the Senate, and in the primaries. The man is conservative. He has every right to he, I suppose, but I don't have to like it or him.
  • silverfox

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    Jul 20, 2008 12:59 PM GMT
    N_E_W_B_I_E saidAfter alot of thinking i have decided that i wasn't going to vote for Ohbama for president this year. True it would be a great mark in history, but the society we live in today is not ready for him.


    if Ohbama wins the election (prolly not) how do you figure american society react?



    This reminds me of something a friend of mine said a couple of weeks ago....

    "I like Obama, but I am not going to vote for him...because I don't think he is going to win. There are so many racists out there that won't vote for him, no way they are going to pull the lever for him"


    My answer?

    "You my friend, are a racist."
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 20, 2008 1:04 PM GMT
    I'm in the same boat as iguanaSF... I still don't understand what you mean by "Will Obama end up like Kennedy]?" I sure hope you don't mean that he will be assassinated in public.

    If, however, you mean that he'll be perceived to be too much of an idealist in the face of a meaningless war to the end that his own military advisors may start to wonder who the hell's side he's on anyway, I think that's likely. But is that going to stop me from voting for him? Absolutely not... 'cuz frankly, I'm of the opinion that this country could use a little idealism now.

    You know... the whole election thing has gotten me thinking about that old curse, reportedly of Chinese origin, that says "May you live in interesting times."

    Welcome to interesting times, friends!

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    Jul 20, 2008 2:23 PM GMT
    I checked ma crystal ball's today and they predicted BO will be president! also they predicted spelling his name wrong he does not give a feck for your vote?
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    Jul 20, 2008 2:50 PM GMT
    GQjock said

    How can you NOT vote for him?
    Are you ready for 5 - 6 - 7 dollar gasoline? Because the continued kowtowing toward the oil companies the republicans have been doing will lead us that way
    Are you ready for a war with Iran?
    Because Grampy will Definitely get us into conflict with them
    Are you ready for more of the same with the Mortgage and banking industry?
    Because the republicans with their deregulation policies are what got us into this mess in the first place

    You Cannot be a living breathing person on this earth and make the statement that you made
    "after alot of thinking i have decided that i wasn't going to vote for Ohbama"
    ... and me thinks the way you spelled his name tells me the reason why


    There are all kinds of reason how someone can not vote for Obama, and not the least of which is that he's not proven himself yet. This may not matter to you, but I can guarantee you that it does, and will, matter to millions of Americans who simply will not allow themselves to be lead down the garden path by some eloquent speeches, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin. Obama is going to have no magic wand as you may want us to believe to ward off higher gas prices, a potential conflict with Iran, and all sorts of other ills this country may face in the coming years, in fact, his policies may even make them worse. So, don't kid yourself, you absolutely can be a "living breathing person on this earth" and not vote for Obama, and you can add me to that list.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Jul 20, 2008 3:37 PM GMT
    jprichva said

    And even after the election, polling showed that the country wasn't voting FOR Reagan, they were voting against Carter.




    But then in 1984, after 4 years of Reagan as President, the American public handed Reagan one of the biggest landslide victories - ever. So, your point is...?




    jprichva saidThis is why we will have a black president this year. Frankly, in this climate, if the Democrats had run a Martian, we'd have a Martian president.



    Perhaps you shouldn't reserve your seat just yet at the Obama inauguration. If what you say is true, why then is he not killing McCain in the polls? Not that the polls mean all that much, but Kerry was trouncing Bush in the polls too right up to election day.
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    Jul 20, 2008 3:48 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidPerhaps you shouldn't reserve your seat just yet at the Obama inauguration. If what you say is true, why then is he not killing McCain in the polls? Not that the polls mean all that much, but Kerry was trouncing Bush in the polls too right up to election day.


    At state-level polls Obama is killing McCain. An average of recent polls in each state show Obama winning with 300 votes in the EC. Polls have him winning in states like OH, PA, IA, CO, NM. And unbelievable states like VA, MT. Heck polls put him very close in NC and occasionally GA. Also, the national polls are in the same place this time of year as they were during Kerry/Bush.

    I may not be a dancer, but I sure know my way around a poll. ^_~
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Jul 20, 2008 4:00 PM GMT
    Thanks for the poll update, Munch icon_wink.gif


    Regardless, we have a l-o-n-g way to go until election day, and a zillion things could happen that could potentially turn the whole election upside down or inside out, so no one should be blowing any victory horns just yet. It's going to be very interesting to watch to say the least, and probably pretty nerve-wracking.
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    Jul 20, 2008 4:06 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    jprichva said

    And even after the election, polling showed that the country wasn't voting FOR Reagan, they were voting against Carter.




    But then in 1984, after 4 years of Reagan as President, the American public handed Reagan one of the biggest landslide victories - ever. So, your point is...?


    Actually, I wasn't slamming Reagan with that remark, much as I loathed him.

    My point is that Reagan, whether you loved him or not, represented a very radical change in the direction of the country, and even after his election that change was not evident to the very people who voted for him. In fact, no matter what they thought of him in 1984, all they thought of him (in general) in 1980 was that he wasn't Carter.

    That's why Marvin the Martian could get elected this year. Maybe voting for NotBush in 2004 wasn't enough, but voting NotRepublican this year will be.

    And as I said before, this from a guy who doesn't particularly like Obama, and in fact likes him less and less the more he sees of him.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Jul 20, 2008 4:26 PM GMT
    jprichva said

    That's why Marvin the Martian could get elected this year. Maybe voting for NotBush in 2004 wasn't enough, but voting NotRepublican this year will be.



    It should be interesting to see how accurate that CRYSTAL BALL of yours is come November



    jprichva saidAnd as I said before, this from a guy who doesn't particularly like Obama, and in fact likes him less and less the more he sees of him.



    Exactly my point, and America is going to be seeing and learning a lot more about him in the months to come. Don't be so sure if that the honeymoon won't end before the election as his true colors start to show even more.
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    Jul 20, 2008 6:18 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said Exactly my point, and America is going to be seeing and learning a lot more about him in the months to come. Don't be so sure if that the honeymoon won't end before the election as his true colors start to show even more.


    You know, Curious, we dislike Obama for very different reasons, but neither of that is the point.

    When Allstate Insurance runs commercials that begin "If this isn't a recession, it sure feels like one". you are making a huge mistake if you think this election is going to turn on whether Obama or McCain has a better plan for Iraq.

    When the economy is this bad---and for a lot of people, it is, and getting worse--they will change the party of whomever is currently in the White House.

    And as for liking Obama less and less---well, nothing could make me like McCain less. I already dislike him the maximum permissible amount. Which is another point--even if people get disillusioned with Obama, that doesn't mean they're going to turn to McCain.
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    Jul 20, 2008 6:52 PM GMT
    jprichva said
    When the economy is this bad---and for a lot of people, it is, and getting worse--they will change the party of whomever is currently in the White House.

    And as for liking Obama less and less---well, nothing could make me like McCain less. I already dislike him the maximum permissible amount. Which is another point--even if people get disillusioned with Obama, that doesn't mean they're going to turn to McCain.




    The economy is not in a recession. We may be heading towards one, though I doubt it, we're just going through a tough time. Yes, some people are suffering, but when the new "Batman" movie breaks all box-office records as it did this weekend, it ain't that bad.

    And referring to those who may not like Obama, but won't turn to McCain, that knife can cut both ways. Just because someone may not be swooning over McCain doesn't necessarily mean their running to the Obama side either. This is going to be a tough election, and a great deal is on the line, so you're kidding yourself if you think that America is going to easily gamble on a neophyte Senator to become the leader of the free world. The debates will likely crystalize many things in the minds of many and I have a hunch that it could go either way and that this election is still very much up for grabs.
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    Jul 20, 2008 6:56 PM GMT
    This is the dumbest and most irresponsible thread I have ever read. This is not only a public figure but a human being that you are speaking about. For the love of Christ get a grip and don't put crap like this out into the world.

    In absolute disgust,
    Terry
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    Jul 20, 2008 6:59 PM GMT
    To the original poster, you obviously mean Obama no respect, as you misspelled his name three times writting this topic. I'm sure you could care less about "Ohbama end up like Kennedy".icon_neutral.gif

    I couldn't not vote Bush into office because I was underage but I sure as HECK won't sit idly by this election and let a Bush-clone take office. icon_confused.gif

    I would have voted for Hilary if Obama hadn't made the nomination.icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jul 20, 2008 7:01 PM GMT
    ursamajor saidThis is the dumbest and most irresponsible thread I have ever read. This is not only a public figure but a human being that you are speaking about. For the love of Christ get a grip and don't put crap like this out into the world.

    In absolute disgust,
    Terry



    Huh? Who crapped in your Wheaties this mornin'?

    Care to be more specific about just why, in your opinion, this "public figure" and "human being" shouldn't be subjected to intense scrutiny?
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    Jul 20, 2008 7:16 PM GMT
    JockSnack2008 said Huh? Who crapped in your Wheaties this mornin'?

    Care to be more specific about just why, in your opinion, this "public figure" and "human being" shouldn't be subjected to intense scrutiny?


    Uhhhh...speaking for Ursa (if he will permit me) I suspect his disgust has to do with the implication of assassination in the title of the thread.

    Which is in fact disgusting.
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    Jul 20, 2008 7:23 PM GMT
    JockMyka said
    The economy is not in a recession. We may be heading towards one, though I doubt it, we're just going through a tough time. Yes, some people are suffering, but when the new "Batman" movie breaks all box-office records as it did this weekend, it ain't that bad.


    1. No, technically we're not, and I didn't say we were. But perception is more important than the figures on an economist's scratch pad, and when a conservative insurance company says things like that in a television ad, you know that THEY think their customers believe themselves to be in one. So it may as well be true.

    2. As far as "Batman" goes, I suggest you look at the correlative figures of movie attendance v. the economy. Believe it or not, movie attendance goes UP in bad times, because people need escapism more than ever, and particularly to Batman-ish fantasies.

    3. As far as you "doubting" it, I suggest you vary your diet from Faux News. Bush said just last week that the economy is "growing". Well, yes, the past 12 months have shown a growth rate of...er..less than 1%. If this is what makes you "doubt it", you really need some other sources of news. The average yearly growth under Clinton was over 5%, some years higher.

    4. If you think the economic indicators are improving, you really need to read more. The FDIC this week admitted that there were 90 banks on the brink of going under like IndyMac, and some 300 more on the concern list. This would be the most banks failing at one time since the 1930s, even including the S&L disaster.

    Really, ideology is nice, and so is your tribal identification with the right, but it really doesn't take the place of cold fact.