Methodists reject gays

  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    May 04, 2012 6:55 PM GMT
    "Delegates to the General Conference of the United Methodist Church have voted 61% to 39% to keep the denomination’s doctrine that being gay is “incompatible with Christian teaching.”

    See: http://www.advocate.com/society/religion/2012/05/04/methodists-maintain-antigay-teaching

    So there it is. Identity politics: simply being gay puts you outside the Christian religion - according to the United Methodists. So why be celibate? Why believe? Just being gay is bad.

    Jesus weeps.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 04, 2012 7:06 PM GMT
    The United Methodist Church is incompatible with human rights and equality.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 04, 2012 7:15 PM GMT
    Excerpted from Linked Article: Much of the Methodist Church’s recent growth, however, has come in African and Asian nations where homosexuality is condemned. The church has 4.4 million non-U.S. members, and about 40% of the delegates to this year’s conference were from overseas, the Times notes. At the conference, the paper reports, “a delegate from Africa said in Swahili that saying that a homosexual person was created by God was like saying ‘that God created me to live with animals.’ The translator apologized while rendering the remarks into English.”
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 04, 2012 7:18 PM GMT
    Chosen people.

    I get in for free.

    :-)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 04, 2012 7:25 PM GMT
    Predictable Church is Predictable.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 04, 2012 7:26 PM GMT
    And the conservaposse here rejoices.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 04, 2012 9:23 PM GMT
    AlphaTrigger said
    Excerpted from Linked Article: Much of the Methodist Church’s recent growth, however, has come in African and Asian nations where homosexuality is condemned. The church has 4.4 million non-U.S. members, and about 40% of the delegates to this year’s conference were from overseas, the Times notes. At the conference, the paper reports, “a delegate from Africa said in Swahili that saying that a homosexual person was created by God was like saying ‘that God created me to live with animals.’ The translator apologized while rendering the remarks into English.”


    This is not surprising at all. All Christian denominations are being abandoned by whites and being replaced by people tied to cultural roots that do not accept gays. I've seen this first hand.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 04, 2012 9:28 PM GMT
    Iceblink saidThe United Methodist Church is incompatible with human rights and equality.

    So is our RJ conservaposse. Against gay rights, against human rights, against all rights that aren't in accordance with fundamentalist Christian Biblical teaching, and Teabagger/Republican politics.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 04, 2012 9:35 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    Iceblink saidThe United Methodist Church is incompatible with human rights and equality.

    So is our RJ conservaposse. Against gay rights, against human rights, against all rights that aren't in accordance with fundamentalist Christian Biblical teaching, and Teabagger/Republican politics.


    The sad thing is, you know that's such utter bullshit and still you're willing to say it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 04, 2012 9:38 PM GMT
    So the Methodist Church says that being gay is wrong.

    Okay

    So is looking at another man's wife which arouse sexual desire.
    So is it to sleep around
    So is to be unfaithful to your spouse
    So is marrying a divorced person.
    So is to beat your wife.
    So is being dishonest.
    So is not telling the truth.
    So is being angry with someone without a proper reason.
    So is calling someone an idiot.
    So is malicious gossip.
    So is not paying what you owe.
    So is lying to the taxman.
    So is saying "Christ Almighty!" in anger or in a frustrated tone..
    So is wanting what 's not yours.
    So is breaking the speed limit.
    So is cursing your parents.
    So is being arrogant, snobbish.
    So is to be proud.
    So is to be devoted to something other than to God alone.
    So is not to be thankful for what you have.
    So is to deny the truthfulness of the Bible.
    So is to bully someone.
    So is to laugh behind is back.

    And there are many more which are wrong - in some of these things we are all guilty. We have all broken the law, everyone of us.

    That is why Jesus atoned for our sins by dying on the cross. And anyone who has faith in Jesus crucified will be saved, and accepted by God.
    And this includes Gays as well as straights. For there is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of God's glory, no matter who you are.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 04, 2012 9:53 PM GMT
    I don't see that they've asked a different question or approached the issue in any kind of novel way... which means that they're effectively just voting on whether or not to toss out 1000 years of revelation.

    Seems like an odd way to conduct a religion.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 04, 2012 9:55 PM GMT
    icon_cry.gif

    As a United Methodist, I'm very saddened by this.

    As much as I hate hearing this, it's important to keep in mind the 4.4 million non-US members and how powerful their vote was, unfortunately.
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    May 04, 2012 10:02 PM GMT
    Halarious, i love that they get to vote on what is Christian or not (and presumably what is right or not). Cafeteria religion is the most amusing kind.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 04, 2012 10:03 PM GMT
    geographic_info_systems saidicon_cry.gif

    As a United Methodist, I'm very saddened by this.

    As much as I hate hearing this, it's important to keep in mind the 4.4 million non-US members and how powerful their vote was, unfortunately.

    So what will you do? Remain a sad victim, or take some action?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 04, 2012 10:04 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    geographic_info_systems saidicon_cry.gif

    As a United Methodist, I'm very saddened by this.

    As much as I hate hearing this, it's important to keep in mind the 4.4 million non-US members and how powerful their vote was, unfortunately.

    So what will you do? Remain a sad victim, or take some action?


    Ohhh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to be sad.

    Regardless, I will do what I can in my power to make a change, as will many other GLBT United Methodists.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 04, 2012 10:06 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    AlphaTrigger said
    Excerpted from Linked Article: Much of the Methodist Church’s recent growth, however, has come in African and Asian nations where homosexuality is condemned. The church has 4.4 million non-U.S. members, and about 40% of the delegates to this year’s conference were from overseas, the Times notes. At the conference, the paper reports, “a delegate from Africa said in Swahili that saying that a homosexual person was created by God was like saying ‘that God created me to live with animals.’ The translator apologized while rendering the remarks into English.”


    This is not surprising at all. All Christian denominations are being abandoned by whites and being replaced by people tied to cultural roots that do not accept gays. I've seen this first hand.


    Christianity has always found adherents in the poor, downtrodden, outcasts and those on society's fringe - at first, the gentiles (who were neither accepted by the Romans or the Jews), then slaves, then barbarians; in India and other cultures the greatest conversions were among the lower castes. The common denominator being these people have little in this life and find hope and consolation in a god who seems to favor them when it comes to the afterlife - their oppressors and/or those who live the good life here on earth will get their cumupance and they will be rewarded. "The first shall be last and the last shall be first."

    It's the ultimate class warfare.

    Ultimately, these new converts send their kids to the religious schools where they get a good education and go on to university and onto good jobs and pay. The following generations are lifted out of poverty and day-to-day existance and have leisure time in which to think about god and what they have been taught. They read and hear about other religions and belief systems. What is true? Who is correct? Organized religion usually doesn't help because of the hypocrisy and scandel within its own ranks. Discerning people usually come to see how untenable it really is and wind up rejecting organized religion and belief in god with it - the old baby with the bath water. This is where western christianity is now and has been for some time.

    It is my hope for myself and others that the human race can at least get to the point of believing in a god who really doesn't give a rats ass as to how two consenting adults get their rocks off.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 04, 2012 10:09 PM GMT
    geographic_info_systems said
    Art_Deco said
    geographic_info_systems saidicon_cry.gif

    As a United Methodist, I'm very saddened by this.

    As much as I hate hearing this, it's important to keep in mind the 4.4 million non-US members and how powerful their vote was, unfortunately.

    So what will you do? Remain a sad victim, or take some action?

    Ohhh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to be sad.

    Regardless, I will do what I can in my power to make a change, as will many other GLBT United Methodists.

    I won't hold my breath. What you can do is negligible. Nice words, little results. Have you considered leaving this bigoted church? There are other congregations that welcome gays. Why remain in one that rejects us?
  • Tyinstl

    Posts: 353

    May 04, 2012 10:25 PM GMT
    NotThatOld saidSo is looking at another man's wife which arouse sexual desire.

    ...

    So is to laugh behind is back.

    And there are many more which are wrong - in some of these things we are all guilty. We have all broken the law, everyone of us.

    That is why Jesus atoned for our sins by dying on the cross. And anyone who has faith in Jesus crucified will be saved, and accepted by God.
    And this includes Gays as well as straights. For there is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of God's glory, no matter who you are.


    I'm so tired of this argument. You are claiming that since everyone sins, people ought to accept certain kinds of sin as okay.

    So suppose there were a movement to embrace kleptomaniacs. As a clergyman, would you shrug your shoulders and say that since everyone sins, we shouldn't judge? No! You would, without judging, strongly encourage the kleptomaniacs not to act on their urges, while welcoming them into your church, which is precisely what churches who do not approve of homosexuality do for gays.

    This is because of Galatians 6:1 [url]http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%206:1&version=NIV[/url]

    That being said, fundamentalism is ridiculous and picking and choosing which parts of the Bible you agree with is even worse. But if you accept that homosexuality is a sin, you need to take that idea to its appropriate conclusion.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 04, 2012 10:53 PM GMT
    NotThatOld saidSo the Methodist Church says that being gay is wrong.

    Okay

    So is looking at another man's wife which arouse sexual desire.....


    ....So is to laugh behind is back.

    And there are many more which are wrong - in some of these things we are all guilty. We have all broken the law, everyone of us.

    That is why Jesus atoned for our sins by dying on the cross. And anyone who has faith in Jesus crucified will be saved, and accepted by God.
    And this includes Gays as well as straights. For there is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of God's glory, no matter who you are.


    A lot of the 'sins' you list are moral things most folk (religious or otherwise) strive not to do, and many christians go to church so they can better themselves to not do those things.

    You can be a sinner and go to church, but you have to still work to not do those things. So it makes sense for a church to say that homosexuality is incompatible with their religion.

    But the reality of it is that the church/bible is out of step with modern morals, being gay is not morally wrong, it is in no way like being dishonest or breaking the speed limit, not even close.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 05, 2012 12:09 AM GMT
    I think that's brilliantly put UndercoverMan: "It is my hope for myself and others that the human race can at least get to the point of believing in a god who really doesn't give a rats ass as to how two consenting adults get their rocks off."

    I've always been suspicious about why god would care, when you don't take your physical self with you when you die.

    -Doug
  • LJay

    Posts: 11612

    May 05, 2012 12:31 AM GMT
    Yes, Jesus weeps, and I am sure not for this alone.

    In the end, none of us will be in the hands of the Methodists or any other denomination.

    Life goes on.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 05, 2012 12:36 AM GMT
    There is no room at my table for methodists. I've never liked meth anyway.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 05, 2012 1:29 AM GMT
    meninlove saidI've always been suspicious about why god would care, when you don't take your physical self with you when you die.

    -Doug


    As with most things in the Old Testament, it's not about practical effect: it's about obedience. And your spiritual submission is something you take with you when you die.

    Most things in Leviticus are not sinful because they're innately evil... most Levitical abominations are ritual uncleanliness, made "abominations" because to participate is disobedient to God (and acting, literally, heathen like the Caananites).
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 05, 2012 2:28 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    geographic_info_systems said
    Art_Deco said
    geographic_info_systems saidicon_cry.gif

    As a United Methodist, I'm very saddened by this.

    As much as I hate hearing this, it's important to keep in mind the 4.4 million non-US members and how powerful their vote was, unfortunately.

    So what will you do? Remain a sad victim, or take some action?

    Ohhh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to be sad.

    Regardless, I will do what I can in my power to make a change, as will many other GLBT United Methodists.

    I won't hold my breath. What you can do is negligible. Nice words, little results. Have you considered leaving this bigoted church? There are other congregations that welcome gays. Why remain in one that rejects us?


    I would never ask you to hold your breath about this issue, so please don't!

    It's a fact that NOT ALL United Methodist churches are as bigoted and GLBT-negative as some United Methodist churches and organizations are. The United Methodist church that I am a very proud member of is VERY accepting and welcoming, as are a number of United Methodist churches in my hometown. Just because a percentage of United Methodist have voted against us does not mean that I will leave my church. The worst that we, as GLBT United Methodist, could do would be to leave our GLBT-friendly churches; churches, ministers, and congregations that have welcomed us with open arms, as well as other 'disenfranchised' individuals.

    Leaving may be an option for you, but it IS NOT an option for me and many other GLBT United Methodist individuals.

    And answer me this: What would have happened if GLBT individuals and their straight allies had left the Evangelical Lutheran Church, Episcopal Church, Presbyterian Church (USA), and United Church of Christ?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 05, 2012 3:28 AM GMT
    This is a problem all main-line churches are having. In the Anglican Communion most growth is in the southern tier. While the northern churches have moved forward on the issues of women, LGBTQ and social justice the newer churches are stuck in a 1950`s world. Also their issues are more basic: hunger, social unrest and a changing society.

    I would not blame the southern tier, but look to US conservatives who funnel money and ideas that way. They feel they have lost the culture wars here, but can win by blocking change elsewhere.