"Why aren't Democrats running against Scott Walker's union reforms?"

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 04, 2012 11:59 PM GMT
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303916904577377963809965708.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

    Since Mr. Walker's reforms went into effect, the doom and gloom scenarios have failed to materialize. Property taxes in the state were down 0.4% in 2011, the first decline since 1998. According to Chief Executive magazine, Wisconsin moved up four more places this year to number 20 in an annual CEO survey of the best states to do business, after jumping 17 spots last year.

    The Governor's office has estimated that altogether the reforms have saved Badger State taxpayers more than $1 billion, including $65 million in changes in health-care plans, and some $543 million in local savings documented by media reports. According to the Wisconsin-based MacIver Institute, Mayor Barrett's city of Milwaukee saved $19 million on health-care costs as a direct result of Mr. Walker's reforms. Awkward turtle.

    Some of the good news has been in the schools, because districts have been able to avoid teacher layoffs and make ends meet because of flexibility created by the changes. In the Brown Deer school district, savings created by pension and health-care contributions from employees allowed the school to prevent layoffs and save some $800,000 for taxpayers.

    In Fond du Lac, school board president Eric Everson says the district saved $4 million as a result of last year's reforms, including $2 million from the changes in employee contributions to their pensions.

    Another 52 schools across the state saved an average of $220 per student thanks to the ability to introduce competitive bidding for health insurance, rather than automatically going through WEA Trust, the favored provider of the Wisconsin Education Association Council. If the savings are even half as large as the Governor's surveys indicate, they are still enormous.

    All of this is making an impression on Wisconsin voters. According to a Marquette University Law School poll released Wednesday, only 12% of Wisconsin voters say "restoring collective bargaining rights" is their priority, which explains the Democratic decision to fight on other issues.
  • jock_1

    Posts: 1491

    May 05, 2012 1:34 AM GMT
    this whole recall election was supposed to be about the collective barganing rights but its a non-starter with the taxpayers of Wisconsin.

    The backlash against the democraps will be reflected on June 8th. the silent majority is a pissed off bunch of taxpayers who are shelling out millions for this do-over election for no reason at all.

    Oh one other thing, if Barrett (Obama puppet), does win and repeals the reforms Walker passed, expect the recall effort to start on him the day we can file for the papers.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    May 05, 2012 1:37 AM GMT
    I'm noting favor of collective bargaining and unions for public sector employees. There are laws to make sure they are safe.
  • jock_1

    Posts: 1491

    May 05, 2012 1:40 AM GMT
    Timbales saidI'm noting favor of collective bargaining and unions for public sector employees. There are laws to make sure they are safe.


    Yes, thier unions still exist. Nothing was changed except they have to pay towards thier insurance and pensions.
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    May 05, 2012 2:35 AM GMT
    jock_1 said
    Timbales saidI'm noting favor of collective bargaining and unions for public sector employees. There are laws to make sure they are safe.


    Yes, thier unions still exist. Nothing was changed except they have to pay towards thier insurance and pensions.


    That's completely false. Their right to collectively bargain for wages and other benefits was stripped from them.

    And if you think workplace a laws alone keep people safe, you may want to ask one of the 4,500 people who die every year in their workplace due to safety violations.
  • mke_bt

    Posts: 707

    May 05, 2012 3:42 AM GMT

    If Walker had any balls he would have included police and firefighters in his quest. But alas, those unions wouldn't make for a good scapegoat.
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    May 05, 2012 7:43 AM GMT
    JPtheBITCH said
    jock_1 said
    The backlash against the democraps will be reflected on June 8th. the silent majority is a pissed off bunch of taxpayers who are shelling out millions for this do-over election for no reason at all.

    You are one childish pussy.
    Democraps? Really? When's recess, you infant?


    Lol - you're one to talk dumbass icon_rolleyes.gif
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    May 08, 2012 6:21 AM GMT
    Kinda funny...

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/07/1089439/-WTF-Democratic-Party-of-Wisconsin-Cancels-post-primary-Unity-Rally

    WTF? Democratic Party of Wisconsin Cancels post-primary Unity Rally

    I don’t know why the rally was canceled, but there has been widespread, unsubstantiated speculation that the front runner in the primary, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, decided at the last minute not to attend. The rumor being spread is that Tom Barrett does not want to be seen in the company of union leaders and union members for fear of having images of his participation in the rally being used against him by the Walker campaign.

    Others are speculating that the whole thing is a last-minute dirty trick perpetrated by supporters of Kathleen Falk. Barrett has a wide lead over Falk in the most recent polls. Is it really Barrett who backed out, or did somebody design a set of conditions for the rally that they knew would force Barrett to back out so they could smear him?


    Related:

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    May 08, 2012 7:34 AM GMT
    http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/trumka-lowers-expectations-scott-walker-fight/524891

    Head of AFL-CIO lowers expectations in Scott Walker fight

    Richard Trumka, head of a labor union devoted to recalling Gov. Scott Walker, R-Wis., began spinning the prospect of Walker winning even as the Democratic primary draws to a close.

    "It's not a test-run [for labor]," Trumka, president of the AFL-CIO, told Newsmakers when asked about his efforts to defeat Walker. "They're going to spend more money probably in Wisconsin -- the Koch brothers and Karl Rove and everybody -- than they're going to do in most other states," Trumka also said, as he said a Walker victory would not have any bearing on President Obama's prospects in the state.

    Trumka argued that, whether Walker wins or loses, the unions have already succeeded in intimidating other state legislatures and governors into avoiding the union reforms that Walker undertook.

    "Would you like to take this fight on?" he asked, rhetorically. "A year after you were in office, woudl you like to be in the fight of your life, spending $25-30 million to hold onto a seat that you were supposed to have for four years . . . would that embolden you? Not if you're sane and rational it wouldn't."

    Trumka did say he believes Walker will lose, but added that Walker will "be finished" in his next election even if he does defeat the recall effort.
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    May 08, 2012 1:38 PM GMT
    JPtheBITCH said
    southbeach1500 said
    JPtheBITCH said
    jock_1 said
    The backlash against the democraps will be reflected on June 8th. the silent majority is a pissed off bunch of taxpayers who are shelling out millions for this do-over election for no reason at all.

    You are one childish pussy.
    Democraps? Really? When's recess, you infant?


    I hope you'll also make the same critique when RJ members refer to Mitt Romney as "Mittens" - it has more weight if a member on "the same team" so to speak calls out an RJ member on infantile forum posts - and it makes the forums a better place too.

    You will notice that I don't use terms like "teabagger" "rethuglican" or any other variant, I also don't refer to "Mittens", though I do call him Willard, as that is his name.


    Is "Mittens" a slur? icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 08, 2012 1:43 PM GMT
    JPtheBITCH said
    southbeach1500 said
    JPtheBITCH said
    jock_1 said
    The backlash against the democraps will be reflected on June 8th. the silent majority is a pissed off bunch of taxpayers who are shelling out millions for this do-over election for no reason at all.

    You are one childish pussy.
    Democraps? Really? When's recess, you infant?


    I hope you'll also make the same critique when RJ members refer to Mitt Romney as "Mittens" - it has more weight if a member on "the same team" so to speak calls out an RJ member on infantile forum posts - and it makes the forums a better place too.

    You will notice that I don't use terms like "teabagger" "rethuglican" or any other variant, I also don't refer to "Mittens", though I do call him Willard, as that is his name.

    I support that. I avoid even the term "Democrat Party" because I know it is offensive to some, but I think "Democrat" is ok when referring to a person.
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    May 08, 2012 1:50 PM GMT
    mke_bt said
    If Walker had any balls he would have included police and firefighters in his quest. But alas, those unions wouldn't make for a good scapegoat.


    Those are decisions left up to the discretion of those in charge of a particular entity/government/business, in this case, the governor of a state government and state workers. Just as those running any other business have to make budgetary decisions on bonuses and promotions to keep operations afloat... If you don't want to work for the government then go get a job somewhere else where you think the benefits are better.

    Does that mean Walker went about it the best way? Of course not, but in the end the state is better off because of it.

    Can anyone in their honest mind actually believe that Wisconsin was on a more sustainable path during Doyle? Robbing from coffers so you can hand out gravy during your tenure and then leaving the aftermath to successors so you can look good is exactly the kind of corruption that is wrong with politics these days.
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    May 08, 2012 4:45 PM GMT
    Turnabout...

    http://www.wrn.com/2012/05/crossover-could-impact-vote/

    UW-Milwaukee political scientist Mordecai Lee says he’s expecting there to be a substantial number of Republicans voting across party lines today, with the intention of trying to elect a candidate they believe Walker could have an easier time defeating in the June 5th recall. Lee says that would likely be former Dane County Executive Kathleen Falk because they feel Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett would be a tougher opponent.

    A recent poll showed Barrett with a double digit lead in the primary, and also in a dead heat with Governor Scott Walker in the June 5th recall. If Republicans come out in force today, Lee says that lead could shrink or even put Falk on top. At this point, Lee says he would not be surprised to see that gap between Falk and Barrett shrink because of cross-party voting.

    Wisconsin’s open primary allows voters to cast a ballot for either party, although they can only vote for an office once.

    Governor Walker does face his own primary opponent, but Lee does not expect that to stop most Republicans from voting Democrat. He says they will want to “be where the action is” and he can see 95-percent of them crossing over.
  • jock_1

    Posts: 1491

    May 08, 2012 5:01 PM GMT
    JPtheBITCH said
    jock_1 said
    The backlash against the democraps will be reflected on June 8th. the silent majority is a pissed off bunch of taxpayers who are shelling out millions for this do-over election for no reason at all.

    You are one childish pussy.
    Democraps? Really? When's recess, you infant?



    OOOPPPS ! my bad, typo error. Must have been my public education as one democraT explained to me on another post.

    My appologizes to JPtheBitch.....cheer up dude, its a great primary election day here in Wisconsin, The big union hand picked candidate is being crushed by a do-nothing mayor of Milwaukee to run against Walker in the election on June 8th.
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    May 08, 2012 5:05 PM GMT
    Why this election matters - from a American labor historian at the University of California who wants Gov. Scott Walker to lose -

    [url]http://www.thenorthwestern.com/article/20120507/OSH0602/205070352/Commentary-Walker-recall-election-impact-bigger-than-Badger-state-alone?odyssey=nav%7Chead[/url]

    The recall election in Wisconsin, he said, "sets the template for the fall campaign." If Walker wins, he predicts, "you'll never see Obama defending unions." And, he suggests, public-sector unions will gradually lose support. "Out of sight," he said, "out of mind."

    Much to the relief of many conservatives, the recall election could be a tipping point.

    It's hard to overstate the significance of the election, no matter which side you're on. The protestors in Madison weren't just fighting for cheap health insurance and cheap pensions. When they chanted, "This is what democracy looks like," they believed it. Says Lichtenstein, "The growth of democracy and the growth of unions were joined at the hip from the 19th Century forward."
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    May 08, 2012 5:42 PM GMT
    JPtheBITCH saidI also don't refer to "Mittens", though I do call him Willard, as that is his name.



    Kind of like Barrack Hussein Obama is HIS name, but God Forbid anyone use that. icon_rolleyes.gif And don't think calling him "Willard" isn't a negative, or did you not see this...

  • jock_1

    Posts: 1491

    May 08, 2012 5:49 PM GMT
    Oh no JPthe Bitch and Christian are never infantile when they call people names. Its the norm for them. I view it as a badge of honor
  • mke_bt

    Posts: 707

    May 08, 2012 9:00 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    mke_bt said
    If Walker had any balls he would have included police and firefighters in his quest. But alas, those unions wouldn't make for a good scapegoat.


    Those are decisions left up to the discretion of those in charge of a particular entity/government/business, in this case, the governor of a state government and state workers. Just as those running any other business have to make budgetary decisions on bonuses and promotions to keep operations afloat... If you don't want to work for the government then go get a job somewhere else where you think the benefits are better.

    Does that mean Walker went about it the best way? Of course not, but in the end the state is better off because of it.

    Can anyone in their honest mind actually believe that Wisconsin was on a more sustainable path during Doyle? Robbing from coffers so you can hand out gravy during your tenure and then leaving the aftermath to successors so you can look good is exactly the kind of corruption that is wrong with politics these days.


    I'm really trying to make sense of your first paragraph and how it relates to exempting police and firefighters from the ban on collective bargaining.
    I've read enough of your posts to see that you're a good person and want what you believe is best for WI. I just think Walker steamrolled his position based on his rigid ideology. He never mentioned his intentions during the campaign because he knew it would be a divisive issue. That's not how we've done things in WI and that is my biggest beef with Walker. If he had made his case directly to the people we wouldn't be in this mess. Reasonable voters were aware that things needed to change. Former Gov. Tommy Thompson (who I voted for twice) is on record as saying he enjoyed the give and take of the collective bargaining process. Getting together and hammering out an agreement.
    As far as Doyle is concerned, I never trusted the guy. He took the coward's way out by not running for re-election. I guess he knew he couldn't run on his crappy record.
    Whatever the outcome on June 5, I hope the next Gov. makes an effort to heal the wounds. There are 48% (give or take) of the voting public in this state who are very angry. I pray we can get back to the WI we both love.
    Buy you a beer at Pridefest?
  • jock_1

    Posts: 1491

    May 09, 2012 1:53 AM GMT
    mke_bt said
    mocktwinkie said
    mke_bt said
    If Walker had any balls he would have included police and firefighters in his quest. But alas, those unions wouldn't make for a good scapegoat.


    Those are decisions left up to the discretion of those in charge of a particular entity/government/business, in this case, the governor of a state government and state workers. Just as those running any other business have to make budgetary decisions on bonuses and promotions to keep operations afloat... If you don't want to work for the government then go get a job somewhere else where you think the benefits are better.

    Does that mean Walker went about it the best way? Of course not, but in the end the state is better off because of it.

    Can anyone in their honest mind actually believe that Wisconsin was on a more sustainable path during Doyle? Robbing from coffers so you can hand out gravy during your tenure and then leaving the aftermath to successors so you can look good is exactly the kind of corruption that is wrong with politics these days.


    I'm really trying to make sense of your first paragraph and how it relates to exempting police and firefighters from the ban on collective bargaining.
    I've read enough of your posts to see that you're a good person and want what you believe is best for WI. I just think Walker steamrolled his position based on his rigid ideology. He never mentioned his intentions during the campaign because he knew it would be a divisive issue. That's not how we've done things in WI and that is my biggest beef with Walker. If he had made his case directly to the people we wouldn't be in this mess. Reasonable voters were aware that things needed to change. Former Gov. Tommy Thompson (who I voted for twice) is on record as saying he enjoyed the give and take of the collective bargaining process. Getting together and hammering out an agreement.
    As far as Doyle is concerned, I never trusted the guy. He took the coward's way out by not running for re-election. I guess he knew he couldn't run on his crappy record.
    Whatever the outcome on June 5, I hope the next Gov. makes an effort to heal the wounds. There are 48% (give or take) of the voting public in this state who are very angry. I pray we can get back to the WI we both love.
    Buy you a beer at Pridefest?


    He did mention his intentions when he campaigned for governor. He stated that he wanted to work with union leaders across the state because they would have to make some concessions and they told him to pound sand. Therfore he enacted act10, something he didnt want to do but was forced to do. The unions then said they were interested in making concessions all the while passing new union contracts left and right before act10 became law. Too late...act10 became law and the unions and national unions threw a tantrum that is still going on today. The state was in a frenzy and what the democrats did was run away (14 senators when to Illinois) to slow down and figure out what strategy to use to slow Walker down. Now it has been an all out assult from local and national unions and i believe from the white house to destroy Walker at all costs. The unions and the white house see the gravy train of forced union participation and forced union dues comming to an end.

    Well a little after a year school that are using the budget saving tools Walker gave them have saved millions and millions of taxpayer dollars. The changes he made for businesses across the state have lifted the chains of the past administration. He pledged to not raise taxes and he has done that. He is creating a 100 million dollar program to help milwaukee devolop and create jobs. He has eliminated the states 3.5 billion dollar deficit without raiseing taxes or laying off employees

    If this man was a democrat he would be the next closest thing to a miracle worker which i actually think he is. Instead the democrats just want to tear him up and destroy him all because he believes in Wisconsin and is doing everything he can to make the state what it should be.
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    May 09, 2012 6:14 AM GMT
    Remarkable results from the primary:

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/149767225.html

    Despite the Democratic primary being hotly contested, and the Republican one for Scott Walker not, Scott Walker got more votes than almost all the Democratic candidates combined.

    Is there just a lack of enthusiasm from Democrats in Wisconsin?
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    May 09, 2012 11:46 PM GMT
    mke_bt said
    mocktwinkie said
    mke_bt said
    If Walker had any balls he would have included police and firefighters in his quest. But alas, those unions wouldn't make for a good scapegoat.


    Those are decisions left up to the discretion of those in charge of a particular entity/government/business, in this case, the governor of a state government and state workers. Just as those running any other business have to make budgetary decisions on bonuses and promotions to keep operations afloat... If you don't want to work for the government then go get a job somewhere else where you think the benefits are better.

    Does that mean Walker went about it the best way? Of course not, but in the end the state is better off because of it.

    Can anyone in their honest mind actually believe that Wisconsin was on a more sustainable path during Doyle? Robbing from coffers so you can hand out gravy during your tenure and then leaving the aftermath to successors so you can look good is exactly the kind of corruption that is wrong with politics these days.


    I'm really trying to make sense of your first paragraph and how it relates to exempting police and firefighters from the ban on collective bargaining.
    I've read enough of your posts to see that you're a good person and want what you believe is best for WI. I just think Walker steamrolled his position based on his rigid ideology. He never mentioned his intentions during the campaign because he knew it would be a divisive issue. That's not how we've done things in WI and that is my biggest beef with Walker. If he had made his case directly to the people we wouldn't be in this mess. Reasonable voters were aware that things needed to change. Former Gov. Tommy Thompson (who I voted for twice) is on record as saying he enjoyed the give and take of the collective bargaining process. Getting together and hammering out an agreement.
    As far as Doyle is concerned, I never trusted the guy. He took the coward's way out by not running for re-election. I guess he knew he couldn't run on his crappy record.
    Whatever the outcome on June 5, I hope the next Gov. makes an effort to heal the wounds. There are 48% (give or take) of the voting public in this state who are very angry. I pray we can get back to the WI we both love.
    Buy you a beer at Pridefest?


    I was saying that just as the management of a company decides who goes, who stays, who gets a raise, etc, the governor and his cabinet can make whatever decisions they feel is in the best fiscal interest of the state so that government can keep functioning in a solvent way. Just as governors award benefits to certain groups they can also remove those benefits.

    Ever heard of businesses and companies raising and reducing benefits based on whatever it is they are basing it off of? Ever heard of someone quitting a job because they didn't like how things changed or turned out?

    Same thing here, if you don't like the way you are being treated in the public sector then go find another job with the private sector. It's the land of free enterprise.

    Add to the fact that public workers still get FAR more benefits than private sector workers and it renders the whole outrage over Walker's haircut reforms even more ludicrous IMO.

    And yes, you can buy me a beer at pridefest. icon_smile.gif I will be there that Friday evening with my partner. MKE has the best pridefest ever imo
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    May 10, 2012 12:19 AM GMT
    riddler78 saidRemarkable results from the primary:

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/149767225.html

    Despite the Democratic primary being hotly contested, and the Republican one for Scott Walker not, Scott Walker got more votes than almost all the Democratic candidates combined.

    Is there just a lack of enthusiasm from Democrats in Wisconsin?


    You need to recount. The Dems got 50,000 more votes than Walker.
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    May 10, 2012 12:20 AM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    mke_bt said
    mocktwinkie said
    mke_bt said
    If Walker had any balls he would have included police and firefighters in his quest. But alas, those unions wouldn't make for a good scapegoat.


    Those are decisions left up to the discretion of those in charge of a particular entity/government/business, in this case, the governor of a state government and state workers. Just as those running any other business have to make budgetary decisions on bonuses and promotions to keep operations afloat... If you don't want to work for the government then go get a job somewhere else where you think the benefits are better.

    Does that mean Walker went about it the best way? Of course not, but in the end the state is better off because of it.

    Can anyone in their honest mind actually believe that Wisconsin was on a more sustainable path during Doyle? Robbing from coffers so you can hand out gravy during your tenure and then leaving the aftermath to successors so you can look good is exactly the kind of corruption that is wrong with politics these days.


    I'm really trying to make sense of your first paragraph and how it relates to exempting police and firefighters from the ban on collective bargaining.
    I've read enough of your posts to see that you're a good person and want what you believe is best for WI. I just think Walker steamrolled his position based on his rigid ideology. He never mentioned his intentions during the campaign because he knew it would be a divisive issue. That's not how we've done things in WI and that is my biggest beef with Walker. If he had made his case directly to the people we wouldn't be in this mess. Reasonable voters were aware that things needed to change. Former Gov. Tommy Thompson (who I voted for twice) is on record as saying he enjoyed the give and take of the collective bargaining process. Getting together and hammering out an agreement.
    As far as Doyle is concerned, I never trusted the guy. He took the coward's way out by not running for re-election. I guess he knew he couldn't run on his crappy record.
    Whatever the outcome on June 5, I hope the next Gov. makes an effort to heal the wounds. There are 48% (give or take) of the voting public in this state who are very angry. I pray we can get back to the WI we both love.
    Buy you a beer at Pridefest?


    I was saying that just as the management of a company decides who goes, who stays, who gets a raise, etc, the governor and his cabinet can make whatever decisions they feel is in the best fiscal interest of the state so that government can keep functioning in a solvent way. Just as governors award benefits to certain groups they can also remove those benefits.

    Ever heard of businesses and companies raising and reducing benefits based on whatever it is they are basing it off of? Ever heard of someone quitting a job because they didn't like how things changed or turned out?

    Same thing here, if you don't like the way you are being treated in the public sector then go find another job with the private sector. It's the land of free enterprise.

    Add to the fact that public workers still get FAR more benefits than private sector workers and it renders the whole outrage over Walker's haircut reforms even more ludicrous IMO.

    And yes, you can buy me a beer at pridefest. icon_smile.gif I will be there that Friday evening with my partner. MKE has the best pridefest ever imo


    False equivalency theater strikes again.

    Private sector employees have the right to unionize and collectively bargain, even if union participation is down.

    Walker removed public sector employees right to collective bargain.

    So you're completely wrong. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    May 10, 2012 1:58 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 saidRemarkable results from the primary:

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/149767225.html

    Despite the Democratic primary being hotly contested, and the Republican one for Scott Walker not, Scott Walker got more votes than almost all the Democratic candidates combined.

    Is there just a lack of enthusiasm from Democrats in Wisconsin?


    You need to recount. The Dems got 50,000 more votes than Walker.


    Appx 26,000
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    May 10, 2012 3:54 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 said

    Walker removed public sector employees right to collective bargain.



    Walker removed public sector employees privilege to collectively bargain.


    Human rights are not a "privilege." Though given your rampant racism today, perhaps you think slavery would be ducky.