How would you feel towards the trainer who oversaw your bench press as you ripped your rotator cuff?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 06, 2012 2:40 PM GMT
    Surgery was a few days ago. The pain has subsided. Now I am stick with months of recovery. I'm also getting a bit pissed at my trainer who set up and oversaw the bench press that ripped this. It wAs when he told me to put my elbows out at a more 90 degree angle that it ripped. I heard the rip, but felt no pain. I told him and we went on with the set. I kinda feel the whole point of having a trainer is to get his expertise so this kind of thing doesn't happened.
  • slimnmuscly

    Posts: 541

    May 06, 2012 5:18 PM GMT
    It wouldn't endear him to me; that's for sure.
  • BostonHopeful

    Posts: 23

    May 06, 2012 5:19 PM GMT
    In my opinion, even in the best of preparations, accidents still happen. The best way to reduce these kinds of accidents is to stretch and strengthen this often overlooked muscle. Even Realjock Workouts start with the warming up and stretching of these muscles.
  • slimnmuscly

    Posts: 541

    May 06, 2012 5:24 PM GMT
    BostonHopeful saidIn my opinion, even in the best of preparations, accidents still happen. The best way to reduce these kinds of accidents is to stretch and strengthen this often overlooked muscle. Even Realjock Workouts start with the warming up and stretching of these muscles.


    OP, was the trainer at least good about making sure you were doing that?
  • jock_1

    Posts: 1491

    May 06, 2012 5:26 PM GMT
    you might have a medical claim you can make against the gym or trainier who was overseeing you. It happend to me and its a 6 month recovery....therapy = no fun. Good luck man
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    May 06, 2012 5:36 PM GMT
    Research done whilst I was in school showed that stretching (namely static) prior to strength training was actually detrimental. Warm up yes, stretch at the end of the workout.
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    May 06, 2012 5:59 PM GMT
    we had warmed up with indian clubs.

    I think he stacked the usual weight but then had me change the angle of my arms and 90 degrees is far greater stress on the supraspinatus....riiip icon_mad.gif
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    May 06, 2012 6:01 PM GMT
    The error your trainer made was not stopping the set immediately. I ahve injured myself a couple times with my trainer...It is going to happen..hell Branch Warren ripped a quad weeks befre a major BB comp last year and had to drop out...and he's a pro. but the reason my injruies didn't take more than a few weeks to heal and we left taht body part alone for the most part is becuase as soon as something went wrong he stopped the set, we stretched and put ice on it. That's where your trainer failed. Also, it probably wants the best idea to do a form adjustment while you were holding the weight. That should be done with light weight or an unladed bar until you ahve the correct form down.
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    May 06, 2012 6:02 PM GMT
    I know that I pulled a muscle in my chest and when I told my trainer, we modified the movements. He listens when I tell him that I have to stop or can't do something.

    To me, this is a relationship that needs trust. I would be considering a new trainer.
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    May 06, 2012 6:02 PM GMT
    Caslon19000 saidSurgery was a few days ago. The pain has subsided. Now I am stick with months of recovery. I'm also getting a bit pissed at my trainer who set up and oversaw the bench press that ripped this. It wAs when he told me to put my elbows out at a more 90 degree angle that it ripped. I heard the rip, but felt no pain. I told him and we went on with the set. I kinda feel the whole point of having a trainer is to get his expertise so this kind of thing doesn't happened.

    This guy is incompetent. The fact that you told him you heard it tearing and he decided to continue is beyond the pale.
  • slimnmuscly

    Posts: 541

    May 06, 2012 6:02 PM GMT
    MuscledHorse saidThe error your trainer made was not stopping the set immediately. I ahve injured myself a couple times with my trainer...It is going to happen..hell Branch Warren ripped a quad weeks befre a major BB comp last year and had to drop out...and he's a pro. but the reason my injruies didn't take more than a few weeks to heal and we left taht body part alone for the most part is becuase as soon as something went wrong he stopped the set, we stretched and put ice on it. That's where your trainer failed. Also, it probably wants the best idea to do a form adjustment while you were holding the weight. That should be done with light weight or an unladed bar until you ahve the correct form down.


    All great points.
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    May 06, 2012 6:23 PM GMT
    Darn it: you're coming apart at the seams.
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    May 06, 2012 6:41 PM GMT
    You sure would expect that a good trainer would be aware of safe versus dangerous habits that can crepe into any lift. I've heard of this being more of a problem with the squat and deadlift, especially the variations of the deadlift that can potentially cause injury.

    I know in the case of squats and deadlifts that many trainers are not expert enough to coach someone lifting heavy. I guess that can apply to any lift. So whether your trainer was not expert enough or just made a mistake is hard to say. You can sometimes assess a trainer if you can get an idea of his overall clientele. If many of his clients are women and he stands with a clipboard counting reps in front of the hip abduction and adduction machines, I would not be sure he is up to coaching heavy deadlifts.
  • daveindenver

    Posts: 314

    May 06, 2012 6:42 PM GMT
    the only thing your trainer did incorrectly was not stopping you after "you heard it rip".......
  • MuscleComeBac...

    Posts: 2376

    May 06, 2012 6:48 PM GMT
    To some degree, MuscledHorse is correct, but what is most disconcerting is the specific tear.
    Where were you in the workout - meaning what exercise (2nd, 4th) and what set?
    Was this a weight you had previously pressed comfortably?
    Did he place your hands for you and then have you press or instructed you mid set to make the elbow adjustment?

    Most important: When, in relation to your chest workout, had you last worked your delts?

    What concerns me is not so much the bench press but previous shoulder exercises. The supraspinatus would have to have been severely compromised prior to that for it to tear on a chest press (unless your form was truly ridiculously horrible and you were - for example - on an incline bench and bringing the weight very very close to your clavicle and using your rotary cuff as a synergist - hard to do in a lateral plane movement unless your shoulders were up off the bench and your hands were placed improperly. It might have been that when you shifted your humerus you shifted planes and the weight was too great - but you'd have to be contirting to put that kind of stress on that tendon.

    I'd expect supraspinatus to be a long term degradation from badly performed latteral raises or front raises or extensions. It's not uncommon for long term compression to go unnoticed at that particular point of compression (and is actually common in men over 40). It isnt as easy as "i did the wrong bench oress move" Someone might lift boxes all day or do other repetitive extension movements that can make this a problem area that won't show until one move simply completes the tear in an already compromised tendon.
    Again - when was this in relation to your delt workout, and what was your level of pre exhaustion on delts?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 06, 2012 7:08 PM GMT
    MuscleComeBack saidTo some degree, MuscledHorse is correct, but what is most disconcerting is the specific tear.
    Where were you in the workout - meaning what exercise (2nd, 4th) and what set?
    Was this a weight you had previously pressed comfortably?
    Did he place your hands for you and then have you press or instructed you mid set to make the elbow adjustment?

    Most important: When, in relation to your chest workout, had you last worked your delts?

    What concerns me is not so much the bench press but previous shoulder exercises. The supraspinatus would have to have been severely compromised prior to that for it to tear on a chest press (unless your form was truly ridiculously horrible and you were - for example - on an incline bench and bringing the weight very very close to your clavicle and using your rotary cuff as a synergist - hard to do in a lateral plane movement unless your shoulders were up off the bench and your hands were placed improperly. It might have been that when you shifted your humerus you shifted planes and the weight was too great - but you'd have to be contirting to put that kind of stress on that tendon.

    I'd expect supraspinatus to be a long term degradation from badly performed latteral raises or front raises or extensions. It's not uncommon for long term compression to go unnoticed at that particular point of compression (and is actually common in men over 40). It isnt as easy as "i did the wrong bench oress move" Someone might lift boxes all day or do other repetitive extension movements that can make this a problem area that won't show until one move simply completes the tear in an already compromised tendon.
    Again - when was this in relation to your delt workout, and what was your level of pre exhaustion on delts?

    I asked my surgeon if this was from the muscle wearing out over time. He said no it was torn at the time of the exercise.
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    May 06, 2012 9:32 PM GMT
    MuscleComeBack saidTo some degree, MuscledHorse is correct, but what is most disconcerting is the specific tear.
    Where were you in the workout - meaning what exercise (2nd, 4th) and what set?
    Was this a weight you had previously pressed comfortably?
    Did he place your hands for you and then have you press or instructed you mid set to make the elbow adjustment?

    Most important: When, in relation to your chest workout, had you last worked your delts?

    What concerns me is not so much the bench press but previous shoulder exercises. The supraspinatus would have to have been severely compromised prior to that for it to tear on a chest press (unless your form was truly ridiculously horrible and you were - for example - on an incline bench and bringing the weight very very close to your clavicle and using your rotary cuff as a synergist - hard to do in a lateral plane movement unless your shoulders were up off the bench and your hands were placed improperly. It might have been that when you shifted your humerus you shifted planes and the weight was too great - but you'd have to be contirting to put that kind of stress on that tendon.

    I'd expect supraspinatus to be a long term degradation from badly performed latteral raises or front raises or extensions. It's not uncommon for long term compression to go unnoticed at that particular point of compression (and is actually common in men over 40). It isnt as easy as "i did the wrong bench oress move" Someone might lift boxes all day or do other repetitive extension movements that can make this a problem area that won't show until one move simply completes the tear in an already compromised tendon.
    Again - when was this in relation to your delt workout, and what was your level of pre exhaustion on delts?


    great detailed analysis!!!!
  • rippd22

    Posts: 1

    May 06, 2012 9:32 PM GMT
    Benching with elbows at 90 degree puts enormous strain on the shoulder joints. Most powerlifters use a 45ish degree angle or neutral angle. This is because you can't properly to stabalise your shoulders by tightening your back if your elbows are at 90. I've learned this the hard way ... SLAP repair done a few years ago good thing is recovered fine and benching more than I did before the repair(safely)
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    May 06, 2012 10:00 PM GMT
    Caslon19000 saidSurgery was a few days ago. The pain has subsided. Now I am stick with months of recovery. I'm also getting a bit pissed at my trainer who set up and oversaw the bench press that ripped this. It wAs when he told me to put my elbows out at a more 90 degree angle that it ripped. I heard the rip, but felt no pain. I told him and we went on with the set. I kinda feel the whole point of having a trainer is to get his expertise so this kind of thing doesn't happened.


    I'm not a trainer but I've worked as weight room staff at my school for a few years now. 90 degrees is definitely pushing it for safe bounds but that's only if you know without a doubt you won't flair higher. That's the range where you're losing the stability provided through your pectorals and instead shifting it up higher into your deltoids, which are a lot weaker for that then your pecs are. I recommend people who bench do so with their arms 45 to 60 degrees from their torso. Not only does this support proper form but you're also less likely to rip through a rotator cuff since you're pushing more through your chest and tris than your delts.

    What's also helped for me is rotator cuff conditioning/rehab even though I've never had a rotator cuff injury. I used to always feel sore there after chest or shoulders but ever since I started preceding those workouts with light horizontal and vertical rotations, I haven't felt the pain that I'm guessing precedes a tear since.

    Horses are already out of the barn and all that but it doesn't hurt to know how to help prevent it from happening in the future.
  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    May 06, 2012 10:06 PM GMT
    Caslon19000 saidSurgery was a few days ago. The pain has subsided. Now I am stick with months of recovery. I'm also getting a bit pissed at my trainer who set up and oversaw the bench press that ripped this. It wAs when he told me to put my elbows out at a more 90 degree angle that it ripped. I heard the rip, but felt no pain. I told him and we went on with the set. I kinda feel the whole point of having a trainer is to get his expertise so this kind of thing doesn't happened.
    Listen, I am a trainer and I completely understand your reasoning for being upset. However, sometimes trainers are new the field and does not know the importance of warming up. They haven't received enough education to help you pursue your goals. I am sorry to hear that you messed up your shoulders. I wish you a fast recovery. Here are somethings to look for when you are getting a trainer.
    1. Find out how long he has been training.
    2. Find out if he has a degree a long with a certification.
    3. Do some home work. Ask around about him or her. Watch to see how they train there clients.
    4. Sit down to talk to the trainer and ask questions about his training style. If he says he only trains one way than run. A good trainer does not have a training style. He simple puts what he has learned over the years and apply it to what you want to accomplish.
    5. If a trainer does not have his client to stretch and warm up prior to working out than you might want to look elsewhere or be sure do it yourself. Sometimes trainers are just conscious enough probably warming up.
  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    May 06, 2012 10:11 PM GMT
    jock_1 saidyou might have a medical claim you can make against the gym or trainier who was overseeing you. It happend to me and its a 6 month recovery....therapy = no fun. Good luck man
    Actually, he does because when you buy personal training and sign the contract. U release him of all injuries that might occur during your session
  • daveindenver

    Posts: 314

    May 06, 2012 10:51 PM GMT
    The OP also has to shoulder some of the responsibility....cos the OP heard it tear , decided to ignore it and continue...so its not entirely the trainer's fault..
  • allatonce

    Posts: 904

    May 06, 2012 10:58 PM GMT
    Despite whether or not this is partially your fault for not using your own judgement, how are you STILL using this guy as a trainer? I don't get it. Does he seem amazing otherwise? Or what is possibly compelling you to stay with him?
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    May 06, 2012 11:32 PM GMT
    Caslon19000 said... It wAs when he told me to put my elbows out at a more 90 degree angle that it ripped. I heard the rip, but felt no pain. I told him and we went on with the set....
    If that had happened to me, he better hope he has good malpractice insurance, because my first visit after the doc would be the attorney. I'm not even a trainer and know better than to put my elbows out at more than a 90 degree angle.
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    May 06, 2012 11:55 PM GMT
    Anomalous1 saidResearch done whilst I was in school showed that stretching (namely static) prior to strength training was actually detrimental. Warm up yes, stretch at the end of the workout.


    ^^^ Exactly ^^^
    Hopefully he had you warming up with just the bar for a couple of sets before beginning your weights.