French election - Sarkozy / Hollande

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    May 06, 2012 3:21 PM GMT
    In a few hours, we will know the next French President.

    Even if France isnt the biggest country, or the most powerfull country in the world, its seem that the whole world is watching this historical moment.
    Indeed, historical it is. If Hollande gonna be the next president (as its look like atm) , France will make big changes on the European organisation, and inside the country himself. So, in time of a global crisis (I think) it could be a big mistake, and very risky... could upset a lot of things.

    What do you think about it? Does this event interest you? or you dont give a shit?




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    May 06, 2012 3:27 PM GMT
    I think Sarkozy protected the french' interest quiet well in the last months (years). For sure we are not the most wealthy country, but compare what happen in Greece, Italy, Spain,... I think we are quiet lucky, and the Duo Merkal-Sarkozy saved Europe, and help the global economy not to colapse.

    Im usualy pro socialist... could be compare as the democrate in the USA. However, Hollande will destroy what we built in the past. So this time, Sarkozy seems to be a better choice for me, this time.

    30 minutes to go, to know the first estimations...
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    May 06, 2012 3:39 PM GMT
    Seem to be that Im the only one interested....
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    May 06, 2012 3:42 PM GMT
    Probably most on RJ don't follow too much. I am more knowledgeable of other European countries. But from what I have read, the election is in part a referendum against Sarkozy whose policies and behavior have annoyed many Frenchmen. It doesn't seem the voters are really paying attention to Hollande's ideology and because he is a low-key person, is not too controversial, as a contrast to Sarkozy.

    I do think it is a terrible mistake to elect a Socialist today given lessons learned in other European countries. Don't even need to look too far to the east. Just look at what Spain is going through getting rid of the Socialist. We have a similar problem in the US. Many avoid labeling Obama a Socialist because it is not politically correct, but I don't see fundamental differences between his ideology from that of the European Socialists.

    In France, assuming the election goes to your Socialist, I hope the damage he might do to the country can be minimized. But there is a price to pay for mistakes, as many of us in the US know too well.
  • HndsmKansan

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    May 06, 2012 3:48 PM GMT
    I think its prudent to be aware of events in France and Germany both, especially with the european financial crises and the willingness (or lack of it) of those countries to support others that are much weaker.

    I would agree with views of SoCal above, except for the tie in with Obama,
    I disagree and the tie in isn't necessary to give opinion on this thread.
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    May 06, 2012 3:59 PM GMT
    as i understand it, Pres Sarkozy has a major problem in that he lacks the decorum and class that the French ppl expect/demand in their leaders. i'm not sure how accurate my assessment may be. there IS a certain way that French leaders should act. he acted more like former Italian leader Sylvio Berlusconi. true, if Sarkozy's economic policies produced more than anemic jobs and GDP growth, he'd still be president.

    *get ready 4 ur thread 2 be hijacked by US-responders who want 2 argue about "parallels" between our President Obama and M Hollande.
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    May 06, 2012 4:22 PM GMT
    hot_french_man saidSeem to be that Im the only one interested....


    I'm very much for Sarkozy.
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    May 06, 2012 5:29 PM GMT
    Ok... Swiss and Blegium Media tells that Fracois Hollande gonna be the next president ;-/

    30 minutes to go for official french results.

    Will see how the global market will react tomorrow, as Hollande should call Merkel tonight to chance the European stabilty act. Wont be good...

  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    May 06, 2012 5:40 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidI think its prudent to be aware of events in France and Germany both, especially with the european financial crises and the willingness (or lack of it) of those countries to support others that are much weaker.

    I would agree with views of SoCal above, except for the tie in with Obama,
    I disagree and the tie in isn't necessary to give opinion on this thread.


    Though it is a correct tie. Obama = Socialist Ideology.
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    May 06, 2012 6:03 PM GMT
    icon_cry.gif

    HOLLANDE 51,9% - SARKOZY 48,1%
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    May 06, 2012 6:20 PM GMT
    JPtheBITCH saidThere are no direct parallels to make. But, as in the USA, the majority of French see that the economics of "austerity" are a disaster and they're willing to go another route. And in France the word "socialist" doesn't excite the crazies.

    Of course not. There are never parallels if the lessons are not ones you want to learn. Fact is it takes some intellect some are not able or willing to apply to see what might be applicable and filter out the differences. Nothing is ever applicable from any of the European countries that have found the fruits of Socialism are indeed bitter. Even Sweden moved to the right.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/sep/21/swedish-vote-a-bellwether-as-europe-moves-right/?page=all
    Mr. Kupchan, referring to the politics of the economy, compared Europe and the U.S. in a different way.

    “I think that what’s happened in Europe is to some extent the opposite of what’s happening here,” he said. “During the Cold War, there wasn’t all that much difference between Democrats and Republicans in the United States, but there were huge differences between Social Democrats and Christian Democrats in Europe.

    “Now, here in the United States, Democrats and Republicans are miles apart, but left and right in Europe are converging — and generally moving to the right.”


    -------------

    There are valid debates about the degree of austerity that are appropriate, but the left hides behind what might be excesses in austerity to avoid facing what brought peril to the countries in the first place. Specifically doing exactly what Socialists do.

    Hopefully Hollande won't be strong enough to push through too much of the Socialist ideology and France won't suffer too badly.
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    May 06, 2012 6:53 PM GMT
    Next month we have the "legislative" election... if the left wing win... It will def be a desaster !

    Apparenty the first thing he will do:
    Hire more teacher,
    Increase the minimum salary
    Increase
    Increase
    Increase
    Increase,...

    SPEND,SPEND,SPEND....

    What the hell... WE DONT HAVE ANY MONEY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    May 06, 2012 7:18 PM GMT
    hot_french_man saidNext month we have the "legislative" election... if the left wing win... It will def be a desaster !

    Apparenty the first thing he will do:
    Hire more teacher,
    Increase the minimum salary
    Increase
    Increase
    Increase
    Increase,...

    SPEND,SPEND,SPEND....

    What the hell... WE DONT HAVE ANY MONEY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Just from what I know, and in the case of France it isn't too much, the vote was more about current policy and personality than ideology. If the election campaigns get the message out enough, maybe the voters will avoid the left to provide checks and balances on the Socialist Hollande. The example of Zapatero in Spain should keep some reality in play, hopefully. Problem is spending is a disease, an addiction, that the left has, and having to borrow does not provide them a sanity check. We have it in the US also, so can definitely sympathize.
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    May 06, 2012 8:49 PM GMT
    JPtheBITCH saidAs usual, your facts are wrong----this time about Spain. Prior to the real estate bubble bursting, Spain's government had one the lowest debt burdens and the most responsible fiscal balance sheet in the eurozone. What pulled Spain down was the collapse in real estate----which it did not finance. The bad loans came from other parts of Europe, but because of the straitjacket the euro puts all its members' countries in, Spain---like Greece---couldn't devalue its way out of the problem.

    The plain fact is that the euro has to go.

    As usual, you take one fact and ignore the others. The housing bubble was a precipitating factor, but the response of the Socialist government made things worse.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/why-spain-is-a-dead-economy-walking-2010-6#
    Deficit equal to 11.4 percent of GDP
    In an effort to stimulate the economy, Spain's socialist government has been spending unprecedented amounts of money and that skyrocketed the government budget deficit to a stunning 11.4 percent of GDP in 2009.  That is completely unsustainable by any definition.  

    Total debt equals 270 percent of GDP
    A "green economy" that strangles two jobs for every one it creates
    Caught between austere misery and a credit downgrade
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    May 06, 2012 8:55 PM GMT
    France is so over with
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    May 06, 2012 9:18 PM GMT
    Hollande has said as president he would pursue legislation which would legalize marriage for gay couples.

    Last week, Sarkozy reiterated that he is opposed to such unions, saying, “For me, a family is a father and a mother, not two fathers or two mothers.”

    http://www.ontopmag.com/article.aspx?id=11610&MediaType=1&Category=24#
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    May 06, 2012 9:19 PM GMT
    I think the biggest problem for sarkozy was that while his diagnosis that france needs much deregulation, he didn't actually achieve any of the reforms he promised.

    I don't think hollande is what France needs right now, but there wasn't a good candidate on the table.

    Im going to protest once again that people who use the word "socialism" are, as ever, guilty of mischievous misrepresentation. The socialists in France do not resemble what is understood by socialism is the USA.
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    May 06, 2012 9:38 PM GMT
    TigerTim saidI think the biggest problem for sarkozy was that while his diagnosis that france needs much deregulation, he didn't actually achieve any of the reforms he promised.

    I don't think hollande is what France needs right now, but there wasn't a good candidate on the table.

    Im going to protest once again that people who use the word "socialism" are, as ever, guilty of mischievous misrepresentation. The socialists in France do not resemble what is understood by socialism is the USA.


    If Jean-Luc Melenchon won the first runoff, and became President, then that would be a victory of socialism (which would be a GOOD thing). People who can look beyond the name of the Socialist Party will realize that it is not a real socialist party.

    But it's certainly better for Hollande to be President than Sarkozy. And this means France will be more likely to legalize gay marriage.
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    May 06, 2012 9:44 PM GMT
    hot_french_man saidNext month we have the "legislative" election... if the left wing win... It will def be a desaster !

    Apparenty the first thing he will do:
    Hire more teacher,
    Increase the minimum salary
    Increase
    Increase
    Increase
    Increase,...

    SPEND,SPEND,SPEND....

    What the hell... WE DONT HAVE ANY MONEY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Maybe not all is lost. Hollande has the reputation of being a pragmatist and not an ideologue.
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    May 06, 2012 11:01 PM GMT
    Bonjour Hollande. Au revoir Sarkozy.

    I find it very interesting that TEN candidates were running in this pivotal election...
    -François Hollande, Socialist Party
    -Nicolas Sarkozy, Union for a Popular Movement
    -Marine Le Pen, National Front
    -Jean-Luc Mélenchon, Left Front
    -François Bayrou, Democratic Movement
    -Eva Joly,Europe Écologie (The Greens)
    -Nicolas Dupont-Aignan, Arise the Republic
    -Philippe Poutou, New Anticapitalist Party
    -Nathalie Arthaud, Workers' Struggle
    -Jacques Cheminade, Solidarity and Progress
    ...covering almost every conceivable political affiliation.

    Is it common in France for up to ten, or more, candidates to run in an election?
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    May 07, 2012 2:29 PM GMT
    Oh man, now even more Algerian Muslims are gonna go to France, completely fuck shit up, and get away with it due to the left's lax stance on illegal immigrant crime.