Discuss this head-scratcher

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    May 08, 2012 2:50 AM GMT
    149495_356922964356374_223145457734126_9
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    May 08, 2012 2:54 AM GMT
    Profound insight. I think Hedges touches on some serious issues plaguing the modern world.
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    May 08, 2012 4:57 AM GMT
    why is there a scrubby side kitchen sponge on that easel...moreover why is there a chalkboard on an easel o_O
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    May 08, 2012 4:58 AM GMT
    Ariodante saidwhy is there a scrubby side kitchen sponge on that easel...moreover why is there a chalkboard on an easel o_O


    LOL, love your posts!
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    May 08, 2012 5:00 AM GMT
    "I've never let thinking interfere with my education" Mark Twain

    This is what people don't understand in society. Anybody can make an A on a test, but thinking critically about situations in the world takes a special kind of person. We're taking creativity and imagination away from our youth and slowly feeding it back to them through the media. It's a bit sickening. /rant
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    May 08, 2012 4:24 PM GMT
    Ariodante saidwhy is there a scrubby side kitchen sponge on that easel...moreover why is there a chalkboard on an easel o_O



    Because this is what the education system is reduced to?
  • LJay

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    May 08, 2012 4:39 PM GMT
    What nice printing on the board.
    That gets you an extra A, Chris.
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    May 08, 2012 4:39 PM GMT
    I really see where Hedges is going with this, his words, though a little flowery, pinpoint how the newly educated now view the utility of their hard earned grades. For me, jobs have become a "who you know," "who you're related to," and at times a "how ill-educated are you, so we can brainwash you" situation.
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    May 08, 2012 4:40 PM GMT
    Ariodante saidwhy is there a scrubby side kitchen sponge on that easel...moreover why is there a chalkboard on an easel o_O


    It is to wash the chalk board at the end of the day.
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    May 08, 2012 4:44 PM GMT
    Masterfully stated. That idea owes itself to the discussion of education, grading, original thought and Quality (capital "Q" intended) in Pirsig's famed "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values."
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    May 08, 2012 4:55 PM GMT
    Josh1992 said"I've never let thinking interfere with my education" Mark Twain

    This is what people don't understand in society. Anybody can make an A on a test, but thinking critically about situations in the world takes a special kind of person. We're taking creativity and imagination away from our youth and slowly feeding it back to them through the media. It's a bit sickening. /rant


    And it all starts with those fcukin' math teachers who penalize students for solving a math problem in away different from the way they were taught in class. I'd get so frustrated with my daughter when trying to show her a way to solve a math problem and she'd protest: "But Ms. So-and-So wants us to do it her way!

    I've always said that if I were a teacher the only way you'd be able to get an A on one of my tests would be to indicate you could apply what you should have learned in class to a situation/problem never discussed in class. Too many teachers give tests that just require students to regurgitate facts, figures, and dates that are soon forgotten after ther test is taken.

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    May 08, 2012 5:00 PM GMT
    Excellent post makevelli. Thank you.

    I just read an excellent book that would have fit right in with this.

    Life Money and Illusion by Mike Nerkerson
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    May 08, 2012 5:27 PM GMT
    "We have bought into the idea that education is about training and "success", defined monetarily, rather than learning to think critically and to challenge." because that's what corporations want. Although they will lie and say they want people who think and challenge the status quo. They want automatons. Don't think so? Next time you are in a big meeting at the company you work for publicly challenge one of its sacred cows with a creative idea of your own and see how fast your career comes to a grinding halt or how quickly you are shown the door.

    Also at one time, you got on the job training in many careers. You were brought in as an apprentice and worked along side seasoned professionals. Company's invested time educating employees. Employees were seen a a valuable asset to invest in. Now you are just a tool to be used until your usefullness is through, so just as as company expects a wrench to be operable when taken out of the box, so it expects prospective employees to come already equipped (educated/trained). They do not want to make the investment in your training; so unless you have a trust fund to live off of, you have to train yourself through college or a trade school. So you go to school where you aren't taught critical thinking and then get a job where critical thinking isn't really appreciated anyway. Most colleges and univerities are glorified trade schools. So the corpoarate world and the world of higher education are in a beautiful symbiotic realtionship.

    HOW DARE YOU TRY TO UPSET THE APPLE CART WITH YOUR CRITICAL THINKING! YOU ARE A DANGER AND MUST BE ELIMINATED.
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    May 08, 2012 5:29 PM GMT
    JPtheBITCH said
    UndercoverMan saidAnd it all starts with those fcukin' math teachers who penalize students for solving a math problem in away different from the way they were taught in class. I'd get so frustrated with my daughter when trying to show her a way to solve a math problem and she'd protest: "But Ms. So-and-So wants us to do it her way!

    A lot of the blame for that sort of thinking is the "teaching to the test" mentality which became sadly necessary with the advent of the No Child Left Behind constant assessment tests. I have several friends who are teachers; they say that standardized mandatory testing has all but destroyed serious teaching. Everyone is too busy making sure their students can pass the test; school funding, teacher merit pay, etc. all depend on it now.

    One friend in particular threw in the towel and took early retirement. New York City lost one of its most dedicated and effective teachers. And the worst of it for her is that she's bored witless without work. She has enough of an income so that's not an issue, but she's restless, too smart and vital to while away the rest of her days playing mah jongg.


    I have heard the exact same thing. It's truly sad and the individuals and society suffers.
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    May 08, 2012 5:31 PM GMT
    Just because someone says something, doesn't mean it's true.

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    May 08, 2012 5:34 PM GMT
    JPtheBITCH said
    UndercoverMan saidAnd it all starts with those fcukin' math teachers who penalize students for solving a math problem in away different from the way they were taught in class. I'd get so frustrated with my daughter when trying to show her a way to solve a math problem and she'd protest: "But Ms. So-and-So wants us to do it her way!



    One friend in particular threw in the towel and took early retirement. New York City lost one of its most dedicated and effective teachers. And the worst of it for her is that she's bored witless without work. She has enough of an income so that's not an issue, but she's restless, too smart and vital to while away the rest of her days playing mah jongg.


    So you'd prefer that she sacrifice herself and work everyday until she dies because you don't want to make the same sacrifice to make the impact yourself?
  • TheBizMan

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    May 08, 2012 5:40 PM GMT
    Animus said
    JPtheBITCH said
    UndercoverMan saidAnd it all starts with those fcukin' math teachers who penalize students for solving a math problem in away different from the way they were taught in class. I'd get so frustrated with my daughter when trying to show her a way to solve a math problem and she'd protest: "But Ms. So-and-So wants us to do it her way!



    One friend in particular threw in the towel and took early retirement. New York City lost one of its most dedicated and effective teachers. And the worst of it for her is that she's bored witless without work. She has enough of an income so that's not an issue, but she's restless, too smart and vital to while away the rest of her days playing mah jongg.


    So you'd prefer that she sacrifice herself and work everyday until she dies because you don't want to make the same sacrifice to make the impact yourself?


    I think you missed the point..
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    May 08, 2012 5:47 PM GMT
    MuscledHorse saidMasterfully stated. That idea owes itself to the discussion of education, grading, original thought and Quality (capital "Q" intended) in Pirsig's famed "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values."


    Like this thread and like all the comments so far but this one is my favourite.
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    May 09, 2012 1:30 AM GMT
    I've read Empire of Illusion, very interesting, very polemical, but what appeals to me is the moral outrage at how blind we can be...

    Here's an interesting speech he made for the Occupy movement:

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    May 09, 2012 1:34 AM GMT
    Ariodante saidwhy is there a scrubby side kitchen sponge on that easel...moreover why is there a chalkboard on an easel o_O
    Dry erase has made you forget that chalk boards have to whipped clean with a sponge! You're in big trouble mister! I should have your write out your punishment on the chalk board! icon_mad.gificon_exclaim.gif
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    May 09, 2012 1:35 AM GMT
    makavelli said149495_356922964356374_223145457734126_9
    I've got news for Chris: Birth condemns everyone to death eventually.
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    May 09, 2012 1:39 AM GMT
    makavelli said149495_356922964356374_223145457734126_9
    Wish I knew the value of a good education. I pretty much used the same books for all 4 years of high school, and dropped out of my local community college after a year, cause I got caught up in the "nightlife". All I know is cause I'm smart, not educated; aside reading some psychology and communications books in high school and after college.
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    May 09, 2012 1:40 AM GMT
    So if I were to challenge this thought then no one can really complain because I am doing what the thought proposed, right?
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    May 09, 2012 1:56 AM GMT
    daviddoublebay said"... The measure of a civilization is it's compassion. .. "

    The rest seemed valid and insightful... but I'm not so sure about the above.
    The true measure of a civilization is how much it leaves behind for archeologists 10,000 years in the future.
    And I think we measure pretty high with our plastic junk pile in the pacific.
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    May 09, 2012 2:01 AM GMT
    mayBbignow said
    paulflexes said
    daviddoublebay said"... The measure of a civilization is it's compassion. .. "

    The rest seemed valid and insightful... but I'm not so sure about the above.
    The true measure of a civilization is how much it leaves behind for archeologists 10,000 years in the future.


    Provided that it
    1. Stays in the same form without decay
    2. Stays in its correct position from its use
    3. Understood by its discoverers from its name and purpose
    4. Doesnt undergo historical revisionism, whether light or heavy
    5. Doesn't require the archeologists to upgrade it in order to view its content.