History of the word "Faggot"

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    May 17, 2012 12:33 PM GMT
    "The word faggot has been experiencing a kind of renaissance recently, with athletes like Kobe Bryant wielding it in anger, the director Brett Ratner using it in jest, and the comedian Louis C.K. defending it as a generalized insult. But does the word remain irredeemably “rooted in homophobia,” as the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation asserts? Or is there a way to defang and repurpose the word, as some in the gay community would like? On this week’s Lexicon Valley, co-host Bob Garfield and I dig into the fraught history and possible future of “The Other F-Word.”"

    http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/lexicon_valley/2012/02/lexicon_valley_the_history_future_and_reclamation_of_the_word_faggot_.html

    Does anyone here use the word faggot? How do you mean it?

    If I'm joking around, I tend to call another gay guy a bitch, not a faggot.
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    May 17, 2012 12:55 PM GMT
    Link don't work.

    I don't use it, I think the whole owning a word to show it doesn't hurt is a silly bravado. While censoring isn't a solution, I think reducing my own use of it is a form of limiting its propagation. Be the change you want to see type of thing.

    I also want to say that in Louie C.K.'s tv show, they had a serious moment in the episode where they explained the origin of the word and how offensive it is. I'm not inclined to believe that he defends it.
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    May 17, 2012 1:13 PM GMT
    Thanks SB. Let me see how I can fix the link.

    I'm still waiting for my sammich, btw. fucking bitch
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    May 17, 2012 1:15 PM GMT
    I'll provide this, you provide the sammich, bitch.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/lexicon_valley/2012/02/lexicon_valley_the_history_future_and_reclamation_of_the_word_faggot_.html

    I don't like how they're presenting only one side of it. I don't like this guy they're playing clips of speaking for me and all gay men. And he's speaking for other groups without them being there.
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    May 17, 2012 1:17 PM GMT
    I loved Louis C.K.'s original HBO sitcom, but he lost me as a fan when the first 15 minutes of one of his comedy specials was devoted to defending the humor in calling someone a faggot. His intransigence on this issue tells me that he probably just doesn't get it.

    And no, I'm not butthurt about it and I don't take it personally. It's just not funny. I have better things to do with my time.
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    May 17, 2012 1:27 PM GMT
    No sir, I don't like it.
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    May 17, 2012 1:29 PM GMT
    ^Ren & Stimpy horse!

    I'm surprised the radio program didn't talk about the kindling = object you burn = burning homosexuals origin. I've heard conflicting reports of it in the past.

    Louie CK's show I mentioned earlier does talk about it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-55wC5dEnc&t=5m12s&feature=player_embedded


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    May 17, 2012 1:30 PM GMT
    Chris Rock said it the best. He speaks truth.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN-LSo7bxuo
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    May 17, 2012 1:47 PM GMT
    dan_x saidChris Rock said it the best. He speaks truth.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN-LSo7bxuo

    Can one say "Hey, nigger, the light's about to change" at the moment?
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    May 17, 2012 1:52 PM GMT
    Caslon19000 said
    dan_x saidChris Rock said it the best. He speaks truth.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN-LSo7bxuo

    Can one say "Hey, nigger, the light's about to change" at the moment?


    sure, as long as the person in car isn't black.
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    May 17, 2012 1:56 PM GMT
    DEKIRUMAN said
    Caslon19000 said
    dan_x saidChris Rock said it the best. He speaks truth.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN-LSo7bxuo

    Can one say "Hey, nigger, the light's about to change" at the moment?


    sure, as long as the person in car isn't black.


    What if you can't see the person in the car? Is it appropriate then?
    And what if it is a white person, but there are black pedestrians on the side of the road?
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    May 17, 2012 2:04 PM GMT
    Stuttershock said
    DEKIRUMAN said
    Caslon19000 said
    dan_x saidChris Rock said it the best. He speaks truth.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN-LSo7bxuo

    Can one say "Hey, nigger, the light's about to change" at the moment?


    sure, as long as the person in car isn't black.


    What if you can't see the person in the car? Is it appropriate then?
    And what if it is a white person, but there are black pedestrians on the side of the road?


    IDK man.....If I was a pedestrian and I heard some people in cars shouting that at each other I wouldnt care. It's America, plenty of people are still racist, it's not like it's a shocking revelation or something. icon_lol.gif

    But the two words are really not good to compare. Nigger is a term that does not have an expanded definition, but faggot does.

    I don't say either word but what other people wanna do is on them.
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    May 17, 2012 2:05 PM GMT
    DEKIRUMAN said Nigger is a term that does not have an expanded definition, but faggot does.


    Huh? Since when?
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    May 17, 2012 2:07 PM GMT
    There's more to it than context.

    What about the gay kid in the closet who hears one guy (who isn't homophobic) calling his friend (who also isn't homophobic and they both know that about each other) a faggot when he does something embarrassing?

    The gay kid learns that it's generally thought that gay people are something to be ashamed of, and that it's socially acceptable to express contempt for gays publicly. The world becomes colder for him,

    Another one:
    The impressionable kid in his group of friends hears them calling each other faggots. He doesn't know it's not about sexuality. He thinks they're insulting each other by accusing the other of being gay. He learns that gay is a bad thing. He uses the word as an insult to people he meets. This is why children of racists start out racist. Intolerance is taught.


    The first guys in either of those scenarios can say "well I didn't mean it as anything to do with sexuality so there's no problem with saying it". Maybe in a soundproof booth, but there is a whole world out there and consequences reach further than what is immediate.
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    May 17, 2012 2:07 PM GMT
    Fword4.png

    If I catch my best friend dancing to Selena Gomez or something, I tell him "Wow dude... You. are. a. fag."
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    May 17, 2012 2:07 PM GMT
    showme said
    DEKIRUMAN said Nigger is a term that does not have an expanded definition, but faggot does.


    Huh? Since when?




    it is very common the term faggot is used on non gays

    it is not very common to use the term nigger on non blacks

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    May 17, 2012 2:10 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]SkinnyBitch said[/cite]There's more to it than context.

    What about the gay kid in the closet who hears one guy who isn't homophobic calling his friend (who also isn't homophobic and they both know that about each other) a faggot when he does something embarrassing?

    if people let the word evolve then it wouldnt even mean gay anymore which would preclude any of this from happening.
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    May 17, 2012 2:10 PM GMT
    DEKIRUMAN said
    showme said
    DEKIRUMAN said Nigger is a term that does not have an expanded definition, but faggot does.


    Huh? Since when?




    it is very common the term faggot is used on non gays

    it is not very common to use the term nigger on non blacks



    True. Calling someone a fag can - and usually does, in my experience - have nothing to do with sexuality.

    I can only think of one instance in my experience where someone got called a nigger and it had nothing to do with skin color... and that was because the guy just liked being shocking and calling people niggers.
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    May 17, 2012 2:11 PM GMT
    I've never really liked using such controversial or swear words (in fact, the most I've ever used regularly are the words h**l and s*#t). But, two years ago, I decided to stop using all these words. Now, it's quite startling when I hear such words. Nonetheless, the podcast is quite informative. Thanks!

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    May 17, 2012 2:13 PM GMT
    DEKIRUMAN said
    showme said
    DEKIRUMAN said Nigger is a term that does not have an expanded definition, but faggot does.


    Huh? Since when?




    it is very common the term faggot is used on non gays

    it is not very common to use the term nigger on non blacks



    We've had these threads before so this is probably a losing proposition, but - i would argue that is only because it has become less socially acceptable to use the term "nigger" but than it has to use the term "faggot." When I was growing up in Texas in the late 60s and early 70s, I heard the term "nigger" bandied around quite a bit to apply to anyone. And believe me, that's not because it had some expanded definition that wasn't bigoted or hurtful. Just the opposite.



  • neosyllogy

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    May 17, 2012 2:14 PM GMT
    mayBbignow saidI like being called a bitch.

    You bitch.
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    May 17, 2012 2:16 PM GMT
    Larkin said
    DEKIRUMAN said
    showme said
    DEKIRUMAN said Nigger is a term that does not have an expanded definition, but faggot does.


    Huh? Since when?




    it is very common the term faggot is used on non gays

    it is not very common to use the term nigger on non blacks



    True. Calling someone a fag can - and usually does, in my experience - have nothing to do with sexuality.

    I can only think of one instance in my experience where someone got called a nigger and it had nothing to do with skin color... and that was because the guy just liked being shocking and calling people niggers.


    I tend to be more shocked when someone uses a more nuanced less commonly know racial slur. Nigger doesn't sparkle like it used to........it's kinda played out actually.

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    May 17, 2012 2:19 PM GMT
    showme said
    DEKIRUMAN said
    showme said
    DEKIRUMAN said Nigger is a term that does not have an expanded definition, but faggot does.


    Huh? Since when?




    it is very common the term faggot is used on non gays

    it is not very common to use the term nigger on non blacks


    I was growing up in Texas





    .........my condolences icon_neutral.gif
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    May 17, 2012 2:23 PM GMT
    DEKIRUMAN said
    showme said

    I was growing up in Texas



    .........my condolences icon_neutral.gif


    Hahaha. It wasn't all bad, but when I left at 18 it was clearly an escape.

    Anyway, I DO remember very well being called a "nigger" more than one schoolyard fight. And it wasn't because there was some hidden meaning to other than race. It was clearly - black people are inferior, and I'm insulting you by comparing you to them.

    I think that "faggot" is used in exactly the same way, most of the time. I guess it's possible for a non-homophobic use to eventually predominate, but it's gonna be a long time. I didn't come out in the face of oppression just so it would be ok for someone to call me a faggot. Basically, I think that my generation is gonna have to die off before (if ever) that is universally going to be considered ok.
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    May 17, 2012 2:28 PM GMT
    showme said
    DEKIRUMAN said
    showme said
    DEKIRUMAN said Nigger is a term that does not have an expanded definition, but faggot does.


    Huh? Since when?




    it is very common the term faggot is used on non gays

    it is not very common to use the term nigger on non blacks



    We've had these threads before so this is probably a losing proposition, but - i would argue that is only because it has become less socially acceptable to use the term "nigger" but than it has to use the term "faggot." When I was growing up in Texas in the late 60s and early 70s, I heard the term "nigger" bandied around quite a bit to apply to anyone. And believe me, that's not because it had some expanded definition that wasn't bigoted or hurtful. Just the opposite.





    I don't know but "nigger" is used like "fuck" in NYC by kids and some adults alike. It is a noun, verb, adjective, and all other word types in colloquial speech. I grew up in public housing and though I am Hispanic; due to my very light complexion I would get my ass kick if I used "Nigger" whereas Hispanic’s with the proper complexion had no problems using "NIGGER".

    Faggot not, it is still used as something heinous and ugly with the exception when one fag uses it against another; 9 out 10 times it is used in jest or as a validation of our identity by the community.