Trayvon Martin autopsy and what most of the media isn't saying

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 17, 2012 9:43 PM GMT
    2 articles

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/17/autopsy-reportedly-shows-trayvon-martin-died-from-single-gunshot-wound-fired-at/

    A leaked autopsy reportedly shows that the bullet that killed Florida teen Trayvon Martin was fired from "intermediate range," which one forensics expert said means anywhere from one to 18 inches away.

    The autopsy, conducted by the medical examiner in Volusia County, Fla., also showed that 17-year-old Martin had one small abrasion on his left ring finger below the knuckle, according to the news report. The report could back the account of George Zimmerman, the 28-year-old neighborhood watch captain accused of killing Martin, who has said he fired into Martin's chest in self-defense as the youth was straddling and pummeling him.

    The autopsy report was reviewed by NBC News, but not made available to the public. A spokesman for Volusia County, Fla., told Fox News the report was not made public and was leaked by someone other than the Volusia County Medical Examiner's Office. He noted attorneys for both Zimmerman and Martin had copies of it. He said the report will not be released while an active investigation of the Feb. 26 shooting remains underway.

    Dr. Michael Baden, the former New York City medical examiner, said "intermediate" in such cases is defined as the muzzle of the gun being one to 18 inches away from the entry point when fired.

    "If the muzzle is right against the skin, that’s a contact wound," Baden said. Anything beyond 18 inches is considered "distant" range in coroner's parlance, Baden said.

    The autopsy results surface as court records indicate that Zimmerman sustained multiple injuries. Zimmerman, who is claiming self-defense in the fatal shooting on Feb. 26, had a pair of black eyes, a fractured nose and two cuts to the back of his head, according to a medical report prepared by his personal physician.

    Some legal experts say the report on Zimmerman's injuries, first reviewed by ABC News, may bolster his claim that he shot Martin in self-defense.

    Zimmerman, a 28-year-old Neighborhood Watch volunteer, has pleaded not guilty to a second-degree murder charge in the shooting of Martin outside a gated community in Sanford, Fla. Zimmerman, who is free on $150,000 bail and is living in an undisclosed location, claims he only fired his handgun because Martin attacked him.

    The case has become a national racial flashpoint because the Martin family and supporters contend Zimmerman singled Martin out because he was black. It has also sparked renewed debate over "stand your ground" laws pushed by the National Rifle Association.

    The police investigation into Martin's death also has been roundly criticized by his family and others. The New York Times reported Wednesday that the police investigation into the fatal shooting was riddled with missteps from the beginning, making it a difficult case to pursue. Police reportedly took only one cellphone photo at the scene of Zimmerman's injuries, and they did not test him for any alcohol or drug use that night. Local authorities were also unable to protect potential evidence at the scene -- like blood -- from getting washed away by the rain, according to the newspaper.

    The Associated Press contributed to this report.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 17, 2012 9:45 PM GMT
    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/05/16/what-zimmerman-martin-medical-reports-tell-us-and-media-didnt/

    What Zimmerman, Martin medical reports tell us and the media didn't

    The new medical reports on the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case tell us a lot. And it is not just for what they find, but also what they don’t find.

    First, the reports provide striking evidence that Zimmerman did not start the fight with Martin, and that Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense. Martin’s injuries were two-fold: broken skin on his knuckles and the fatal gunshot wound.

    Zimmerman’s injuries involved: a fractured nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury.

    It takes considerable force to break the skin on multiple knuckles. The large range of injuries on Zimmerman indicates that the Martin’s attack was prolonged. But here is what is missing: where are the injuries to Zimmerman’s hands? Where are the bruises on Martin’s face or other parts of his body? The evidence paints a picture where Martin was the only person landing blows.

    The broken skin on Martin’s knuckles and Zimmerman’s wounds obviously provide some justification for self-defense. But if Zimmerman is to have justifiably used self-defense, he can’t have provoked Martin’s attack.

    The affidavit filed by the prosecutor against Zimmerman was extremely weak and had many glaring omissions. It does not answer the most crucial question: Who attacked whom? All it states is: “Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued.” “Confronted” does not mean “provoked” or “assaulted.” It may mean that Zimmerman merely followed Martin and asked him what he was doing in the neighborhood.

    Surely Zimmerman had the right to investigate a strange person in his neighborhood. But, in any case, Zimmerman simply asking Martin why he was in the neighborhood doesn’t give Martin the right to start striking him or pounding his head into the concrete sidewalk.

    Simple words do not justify hitting someone.

    Anyway, it appears that Zimmerman didn’t even question Martin. The 911 tape of Zimmerman reporting a strange person in the area indicates that Zimmerman didn’t even try to ask Martin a question.

    When the police operator told Zimmerman “we don’t need you to do that [following Martin],” Zimmerman appears to have stopped following Martin and agreed to go to where the police would be arriving.

    The medical evidence implies that Zimmerman did not physically attack Martin and thus there was no justification for Martin to start hitting Zimmerman.

    With the case unraveling, it makes the prosecutor’s behavior look even more outrageous. The prosecutor wasn’t required to go to the grand jury for the indictment, but the fact that she didn’t in such a high-profile case is troubling. Everyone knows how easy it is for a prosecutor to get a grand jury to indict, because only the prosecutor presents evidence and the standard of proof is very low.

    A grand-jury indictment would have provided political cover; that charges were brought without one means that the prosecutor was worried that even a grand jury would not give her the indictment.

    The Obama administration has been fanning the flames, and it isn’t just President Obama’s attempt to personalize the tragedy.

    News reports surfaced Tuesday that the US Justice Department was pushing hard to charge Zimmerman, who is part black himself, with a hate crime because Martin was black. Such a charge can carry a life prison term or even the death penalty.

    Yet, Zimmerman and his wife mentored two black children for free.

    A recent Reuters report that interviewed Zimmerman’s neighbors found that both black and Hispanics viewed Zimmerman as someone who cared deeply about his neighbors and volunteered to head the community watch to help them.

    The claim that Zimmerman referred to blacks as “f***ing coons” has long since been dropped.

    Using this case for political purposes has already come at a real cost. In Gainesville, Florida; Oak Park, Illinois; Mobile, Alabama; Toledo, Ohio; Grand Rapids, Michigan; and possibly Norfolk, Va., blacks have attacked whites in what they think is revenge for Zimmerman attacking Martin because he was black, and those are just the cases where the perpetrators would make some comment such as “This is for Trayvon.”

    The media has been partially responsible for this aftermath with its sensational reporting. Recent coverage has helped to balance things out, but responsible reporting requires still more.

    Bottom line: the medical reports about George Zimmerman are revealing a lot more information than the media have so far let on.

    John R. Lott, Jr. is a FOXNews.com contributor. He is an economist and co-author of "Debacle: Obama's War on Jobs and Growth and What We Can Do Now to Regain Our Future."
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 17, 2012 11:55 PM GMT
    Good to look at these results rather than extrapolating an entire case from comments by an investigator, which are not conclusive.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 18, 2012 12:01 AM GMT
    Let's not ask the obvious question of why an economist is writing about the results of a medical report...

    Beyond which (and Faux doesn't mention this) but the "medical report" was done by Zimmerman's personal doctor, not as part of forensics gathering. I wouldn't be surprised if the prosecutor asks for it to be dismissed.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 18, 2012 1:17 AM GMT
    There was no "medical report." Just Zimmerman's "personal doctor" no doubt hired by daddy.

    Racist right-wing Republicans STILL trying to justify the slaughter of unarmed teens. Psychos.
  • jock_1

    Posts: 1492

    May 18, 2012 1:18 AM GMT
    TroyAthlete saidThere was no "medical report." Just Zimmerman's "personal doctor" no doubt hired by daddy.

    Racist right-wing Republicans STILL trying to justify the slaughter of unarmed teens. Psychos.


    little bit of a hate problem yourself much??
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 18, 2012 1:19 AM GMT
    jock_1 said
    TroyAthlete saidThere was no "medical report." Just Zimmerman's "personal doctor" no doubt hired by daddy.

    Racist right-wing Republicans STILL trying to justify the slaughter of unarmed teens. Psychos.


    little bit of a hate problem yourself much??


    The only people I hate are stupid people. Qualify much?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 18, 2012 1:24 AM GMT
    TroyAthlete said
    jock_1 said
    TroyAthlete saidThere was no "medical report." Just Zimmerman's "personal doctor" no doubt hired by daddy.

    Racist right-wing Republicans STILL trying to justify the slaughter of unarmed teens. Psychos.


    little bit of a hate problem yourself much??


    The only people I hate are stupid people. Qualify much?


    The basic storyline that has been described in the media has been that Trayvon Martin was followed because he was wearing a hoodie while black and then shot by Zimmerman.

    Do you stand by this narrative?

    Oh also here:
    "CBS: Trayvon Martin's Body Had Wounds on the Knuckles"
    http://www2.wspa.com/news/2012/may/17/cbs-trayvon-martins-body-had-wounds-knuckles-ar-3808715/
  • jock_1

    Posts: 1492

    May 18, 2012 1:26 AM GMT
    TroyAthlete said
    jock_1 said
    TroyAthlete saidThere was no "medical report." Just Zimmerman's "personal doctor" no doubt hired by daddy.

    Racist right-wing Republicans STILL trying to justify the slaughter of unarmed teens. Psychos.


    little bit of a hate problem yourself much??


    The only people I hate are stupid people. Qualify much?


    Then you must hate yourself every day you wake up
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 18, 2012 1:32 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    TroyAthlete said
    jock_1 said
    TroyAthlete saidThere was no "medical report." Just Zimmerman's "personal doctor" no doubt hired by daddy.

    Racist right-wing Republicans STILL trying to justify the slaughter of unarmed teens. Psychos.


    little bit of a hate problem yourself much??


    The only people I hate are stupid people. Qualify much?


    The basic storyline that has been described in the media has been that Trayvon Martin was followed because he was wearing a hoodie while black and then shot by Zimmerman.

    Do you stand by this narrative?

    Oh also here:
    "CBS: Trayvon Martin's Body Had Wounds on the Knuckles"
    http://www2.wspa.com/news/2012/may/17/cbs-trayvon-martins-body-had-wounds-knuckles-ar-3808715/


    Yes. That is what happened after all. Whether or not he eventually confronted Zimmerman is immaterial.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    May 18, 2012 4:49 AM GMT
    GEE, with the laundry list of serious injuries allegedly sustained by Zimmerman, you'd think he would have been rushed to a hospital emergency room.

  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    May 18, 2012 5:21 AM GMT
    jock_1 said
    TroyAthlete saidThere was no "medical report." Just Zimmerman's "personal doctor" no doubt hired by daddy.

    Racist right-wing Republicans STILL trying to justify the slaughter of unarmed teens. Psychos.


    little bit of a hate problem yourself much??


    Yes, you hit it on the head, Jock_1. TroyWannabeAthlete hates many things, starting with himself (see faceless profile). Perhaps we should start making outlandish statements that are neither fair or true just for shock effect like he does. How about...

    Everybody knows Trayvon was just another trouble-making drug-induced black kid suspended from school for the 3rd time out in a neighborhood he didnt live in and up to no good.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 18, 2012 5:31 AM GMT
    jock_1 said
    Then you must hate yourself every day you wake up


    On my worst day, I am more literate, more intelligent, and more knowledgeable than you. You are not a smart person. I doubt but that there is a single commenter here with even a passing faith in your ability to win a battle of wits.

    I have house plants that are more intelligent than you.

    That is all.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 18, 2012 5:32 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    The basic storyline that has been described in the media has been that Trayvon Martin was followed because he was wearing a hoodie while black and then shot by Zimmerman.

    Do you stand by this narrative?


    I don't really give a flying fuck about anybody's narrative.

    The incident would never have happened had Zimmerman not pursued an unarmed teen. The special prosecutors believes she has enough evidence to convict Zimmerman of second-degree murder. She is probably correct.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 18, 2012 1:06 PM GMT
    Trayvon Martin autopsy and what most of the media isn't saying


    Maybe thats because you only watch fox..

    Its a shame you comment on something with very little knowledge on. For us here that actually LIVE in Fl, that information is everywhere.. we get it before you do. Gee I wonder why that is?

    Your thread title is totally false, inaccurate and further indications of your highly partisan baiting bullshit you trump about.. yes, kettle, your ARE black!, Jet black.icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 18, 2012 1:48 PM GMT
    www.50centsloseweight.com
    socalfitness saidGood to look at these results rather than extrapolating an entire case from comments by an investigator, which are not conclusive.

    I doubt but that there is a single commenter here with even a passing faith in your ability to win a battle of wits
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 18, 2012 2:06 PM GMT
    DarthCa1 saidwww.50centsloseweight.com
    socalfitness saidGood to look at these results rather than extrapolating an entire case from comments by an investigator, which are not conclusive.

    I doubt but that there is a single commenter here with even a passing faith in your ability to win a battle of wits

    Also you're a fake unless you happen to be the model here:
    http://www.thehairstyler.com/mens-hairstyles/casual/medium/wavy

    Reported. Bye bye.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    May 18, 2012 2:17 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    DarthCa1 saidwww.50centsloseweight.com
    socalfitness saidGood to look at these results rather than extrapolating an entire case from comments by an investigator, which are not conclusive.

    I doubt but that there is a single commenter here with even a passing faith in your ability to win a battle of wits

    A new empty profile. Given you have not made a cogent point in any of your posts that I have seen, I don't think you would be much of a challenge to many of the guys here.

    Also you're a fake unless you happen to be the model here:
    http://www.thehairstyler.com/mens-hairstyles/casual/medium/wavy

    Reported. Bye bye.



    That is Joe Jonas. Pretty sure impersonating a celebrating is a gross TOS violation. Buh-Bye icon_lol.gif
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    May 18, 2012 2:22 PM GMT
    TroyAthlete said

    I have house plants that are more intelligent than you.




    Funny how you changed this from"pubic hairs" to "house plants". Because no one could possibly believe you have smart pubic hairs? LOL! You really have a high opinion of your own intelligence. Trust me, your overblown grossly exaggerated race-baiting comments like "unarmed black teenagers slaughtered in the streets" pretty much secured your place in the "Not So Bright Posters Hall of Fame". icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 18, 2012 2:50 PM GMT
    I have no interest in the debate of Zimmerman's guilt or innocence as I (like everyone else here) do not have the complete evidence by which it make anything that would resemble an informed decision. I have to agree with Zimmerman's attorney on this and suggest that people not use "piecemeal evidence" to make a decision. It seems to me the only real reasonable course of action is to let the man have his day in court and draw conclusions once both the defense and prosecution have made their cases. Of course that is the reasonable course of action and I don't mean to imply that the crowd around here that seems to do nothing but bicker with each other are overly reasonable.

    What I do want to comment on is part of what the OP said. His implication that this isn't being covered by "the media" seems to be undercut buy the fact that he has provided two links to media stories about the subject. Not only that but in one of the stories two additional media outlets are referenced as contributing to the reporting. I guess one could argue that the "mainstream media" is lacking in coverage but FoxNews is the most viewed news source in the U.S and therefore by default is mainstream media. The other sources in the article are NBC and the AP both of which are fairly large as well. I also did some really lazy research (by lazy research I mean I typed in cnn.com, cbsnews.com, msnbc.com into my web browser) and found that the story about the autopsy is pretty well covered by every outlet that I searched. So if all the coverage is pretty much the same what media isn't telling us something and what is it that they aren't saying?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 18, 2012 3:04 PM GMT
    The_Gingerhead_Man saidI have no interest in the debate of Zimmerman's guilt or innocence as I (like everyone else here) do not have the complete evidence by which it make anything that would resemble an informed decision. I have to agree with Zimmerman's attorney on this and suggest that people not use "piecemeal evidence" to make a decision. It seems to me the only real reasonable course of action is to let the man have his day in court and draw conclusions once both the defense and prosecution have made their cases. Of course that is the reasonable course of action and I don't mean to imply that the crowd around here that seems to do nothing but bicker with each other are overly reasonable.

    What I do want to comment on is part of what the OP said. His implication that this isn't being covered by "the media" seems to be undercut buy the fact that he has provided two links to media stories about the subject. Not only that but in one of the stories two additional media outlets are referenced as contributing to the reporting. I guess one could argue that the "mainstream media" is lacking in coverage but FoxNews is the most viewed news source in the U.S and therefore by default is mainstream media. The other sources in the article are NBC and the AP both of which are fairly large as well. I also did some really lazy research (by lazy research I mean I typed in cnn.com, cbsnews.com, msnbc.com into my web browser) and found that the story about the autopsy is pretty well covered by every outlet that I searched. So if all the coverage is pretty much the same what media isn't telling us something and what is it that they aren't saying?

    No fundamental disagreement with what you say. The reporting has become more balanced recently. I took the part of the thread title from the title of the second story. I still see an attempt to minimize the findings by emphasizing an investigator's statement that the incident was ultimately avoidable had Zimmerman... and suggesting or implying in my opinion, that Zimmerman was legally responsible for the death, which does not necessarily follow.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 18, 2012 3:30 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    No fundamental disagreement with what you say. The reporting has become more balanced recently. I took the part of the thread title from the title of the second story. I still see an attempt to minimize the findings by emphasizing an investigator's statement that the incident was ultimately avoidable had Zimmerman... and suggesting or implying in my opinion, that Zimmerman was legally responsible for the death, which does not necessarily follow.


    I think the second article you posted does exactly what you are complaining about in other articles. It is taking partial evidence the writer hasn't even seen first hand and drawing pretty sweeping conclusions. It would seem that for the sake of consistency about bias in news you would take issue with that as well.

    In my wee little opinion I don't think cable news sites reporting useful for much of anything. While the various channels get attacked for their political bias what is often overlooked is the biases they have in common. They all prioritize brevity and sensationalism above all else. Complaining about the political lean of any given channels sensationalism seems to me to be a lot like putting on a condom while waiting for a pregnancy test.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 18, 2012 4:29 PM GMT
    The_Gingerhead_Man said
    socalfitness said
    No fundamental disagreement with what you say. The reporting has become more balanced recently. I took the part of the thread title from the title of the second story. I still see an attempt to minimize the findings by emphasizing an investigator's statement that the incident was ultimately avoidable had Zimmerman... and suggesting or implying in my opinion, that Zimmerman was legally responsible for the death, which does not necessarily follow.


    I think the second article you posted does exactly what you are complaining about in other articles. It is taking partial evidence the writer hasn't even seen first hand and drawing pretty sweeping conclusions. It would seem that for the sake of consistency about bias in news you would take issue with that as well.

    In my wee little opinion I don't think cable news sites reporting useful for much of anything. While the various channels get attacked for their political bias what is often overlooked is the biases they have in common. They all prioritize brevity and sensationalism above all else. Complaining about the political lean of any given channels sensationalism seems to me to be a lot like putting on a condom while waiting for a pregnancy test.

    Ultimately we will need to see all the evidence and hear all the testimony. I interpreted the second story not as making a claim for his innocence, but rather shedding doubt on all the previous stories that have already convicted him. Saying the prosecutors case is outrageous I know goes further than just shedding doubt, but I didnt mind given many one-sided stories so far. Just my take.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 18, 2012 4:58 PM GMT

    ...or Zimmerman may have been straddling Martin and while Martin was swinging at Zimmerman above him trying to get free, Zimmerman tried to place the gun against Martin's body and pull the trigger. However, Martin's flailing arms wouldn't permit this, so the shot came from a small distance away instead of against Martin's body.

    Isn't this fun? (NOT)

  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    May 18, 2012 5:47 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    ...or Zimmerman may have been straddling Martin and while Martin was swinging at Zimmerman above him trying to get free, Zimmerman tried to place the gun against Martin's body and pull the trigger. However, Martin's flailing arms wouldn't permit this, so the shot came from a small distance away instead of against Martin's body.

    Isn't this fun? (NOT)




    Wrong again my dear Watson. Witnesses saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, NOT the other way around. Do you have a problem with interpreting the basic facts already established in this case? Now, whether Martin ended up on top of Zimmerman in self-defense is yet to be determined and, in fact, may NEVER be determined.