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The Abrahamic (Christian, Jewish, Muslim) prohibition against homosexuality stemmed from two reasons:

1) It (obviously) limited family-size in an era before the nation-state provided security and pensions. Families needed to have as many kids as possible so that those kids could provide income through manual labour: more sheep herders, more farmers, more clothes-makers, more craftsmen meant more income for everyone. They could also be called upon to defend the families' property and lives from hostile neighbours and invaders.

In such a context, a child telling their parents they are gay and won't be doing their part to provide for the family's well-being through marriage and children was regarded as extremely threatening. In an era of constant warfare and frequent famine, it could even make all the difference between life and death for everyone. So, the hostility made sense.

Now the state has taken over many of the duties that the family used to have. We now have police and military to protect our security. We have social security, company-pensions and private savings accounts to provide for our old age. Having more children doesn't equal more income for a family - as it is illegal for children to work for money - instead nowadays children cost lots of money. It's just a different context.

2) Homosexuality was associated with pagan cult-prostitution. In many of the Roman and Canaanite religions their participants acted out the myth-stories of the pagan gods for good fortune. Male and female cult prostitutes serviced men and women equally. The Hebrews rejected pagan practises - and as homosexuality was associated with it, it was rejected out of hand.

Every devout Jew and Christian believes the Bible contains both the will of God mixed with cultural practises. The key is to distinguish which is which. To categorize consensual homosexuality with murder and adultery shows a breathtaking lack of discernment. Murder and adultery injure other people. Homosexuality does it. It's simply the breaking of a purity code.

Excellent reading Rigsby. I recommend other posters on here read your posts (because I don't think they have)

tru_blu_auzzie said

meninlove said

big_nick_86 saidHey guys,
I am a young gay Christian male. I believe homosexuality is a sin just like any other sin such as murdering or gossiping. I hate it that I am gay however I have had homosexual relationships I have come out to my friends but am considering just suppressing my homosexual side and just maybe being single for the rest of my life I don't really know. Whenever I am in a homosexual relationship and it gets serious or goes for a relatively long time period I start feeling even more guilty and am forced to break up with him.

*sighs* There's so much wrong in this I'm not sure where to start.

Let's begin here:
"I believe homosexuality is a sin just like any other sin such as murdering or gossiping."
Do you believe obese people should be treated the same as murderers? (gluttony)

"I hate it that I am gay."
If you believe in the love from god you need to ask why god made you this way and permitted your birth in the first place. Is god a doddering fool who makes mistakes?

If he was, then Bill was made in his image

I'm going to ignore that attack on my partner.

Peter Gomes is a good read... check out his books. Thanks, Rigsby.

Did you know that people once used the teachings of Paul to promote slavery.

That is just how hard people can twist the bible.
I am a Pentecostal Christian and I have studied the bible.

I am a gay man, but i had no choice in that matter, however stealing and gossiping , murder etc are all conscious decisions.


I struggle with being Gay ALOT but what I think is that God knows I want to do right and be right and that I truly cannot help it. Whether you have sex or not being gay is a feeling, not an act and you can't escape it. God knows I did not choose it, and I believe that God would not hate nor condemn me for something out of my control.


I think we feel worse about ourselves due to what people say and what we are"taught" but what we are taught and what is real are two different things.


You can love God and worship and be you, but gay or not, no one is perfect everyone has sin on them...no matter how clean you think you are.

No one is better or worse than you, and you owe no one any explanation, just have faith and believe and all those who are condemning you have to answer for themselves.

People go around, getting pregant, being violent, having sex, etc are ok, while saying we are wrong for being gay.

People need to read the Bible that they thump.
Just keep praying and asking for forgiveness because thats all we can do, no one is ever perfect, but as long as you make the effort to be the best you can be with love , compassion, and kindness then you will be ok to me.

Just my thoughts.

big_nick_86 saidHey guys,
I am a young gay Christian male. I believe homosexuality is a sin just like any other sin such as murdering or gossiping. I hate it that I am gay however I have had homosexual relationships I have come out to my friends but am considering just suppressing my homosexual side and just maybe being single for the rest of my life I don't really know. Whenever I am in a homosexual relationship and it gets serious or goes for a relatively long time period I start feeling even more guilty and am forced to break up with him. I am really lost don't know what to do or feel. I can't abandon my faith. Thoughts? Experiences? Anybody willing to talk about this? I can skype or message or whatever.
Many thanks,
L

It really saddens me that anyone these days is shackled by the antiquated guilt that the Christian religion promotes.

But I relate to your predicament. I grew up in the Church of Christ (a very strict denomination). I was baptized by immersion at 8. I attended church every Sunday morning and evening, and Wednesday service too. I went to Vacation Bible School and church camp every year. I went to a Christian university.

And I thought all of this was normal and good. Until I realized it wasn't.

I started traveling and met people of other faiths. Slowly I began to realize that one's religion is nothing more than an accident of their birth. If I had been born in Pakistan, I would have been a fervent Muslim. Or in Thailand, a Buddhist. Or in India, a Hindu. Or in Japan, a Shinto. You get the picture.

You say you can't abandon your religion. I felt the same way when I was 18. But if I were able to write a letter today to my 18-year-old self, I'd say this:

"Listen kid, why are you getting so hung up on this religion thing, God, and the bible? Did you choose to believe in this or did you grow up inundated with the idea that you HAD to believe this? Think about it. Does the idea of God, or heaven, or hell make any sense? Why is everyone sure that they and all of their loved ones are going to heaven, but so many other people are going to hell?

And why would God send anyone to hell for not accepting Jesus as their savior when 80% of the world has never even heard of Jesus. Seems a little silly doesn't it?

The bible wasn't written by God. It was written by mortal men who believed the earth was flat and knew nothing outside of their own environment. Think about it, the bible doesn't mention North America, South America, or Australia. It mentions nothing other than what men of the ancient era were familiar with. Does that make you think the bible was written by an all-knowing God? Or by men with limited knowledge?

The bible says homosexuality is wrong? Is that what God thinks or is that was tribal warrior leaders of ancient times would think? Tribal warriors would want to encourage reproduction in order to strengthen their tribe's numbers and create more fighting men than their neighboring tribes. So they had reason to discourage any sex that was not reproductive. And invoking the authority of "God" was a means to promote that agenda.

The reality is, some people are attracted to the opposite sex and some people are attracted to the same sex. It's just that simple. And there's nothing wrong with either.

Now go and live a happy, fulfilling life. Be true to who you are. And don't live your life thinking you're a sinner because of who you find yourself falling in love with."

JR_RJ said

mybud saidDude...check out Unity.org

That puts the closest church in North Charleston... if they're accepting of homosexual, I'd pay a visit.

There is a Metropolitan Community Church in Hanahan, I think, that is predominantly gay and there is a United Church of Christ in Columbia and several others that are either predominantly gay or very gay friendly.

big_nick_86 saidOn topic though I think I have come to the conclusion of my answer. I know this probably cause a bit of a clash in beliefs between myself and others... but I believe living a life of celibacy. It will be hard at times and it may get lonely but God will provide the strength for me. I can do it and this isn't God's way of punishing me or anything of the alike.

From this statement I gather it's not God who needs this for you. It's your own guilt and discomfort with the reality of your life that you refuse to address.

If God made you, God made you gay. God would only exclude you from actually living life if he were a dick. I know that you do not think God is a dick, so why insult him by pretending that this unnatural choice will make him happy with you? For God's sake, live. Exalt him by choosing a loving man to love.

mickeytopogigio said

big_nick_86 saidOn topic though I think I have come to the conclusion of my answer. I know this probably cause a bit of a clash in beliefs between myself and others... but I believe living a life of celibacy. It will be hard at times and it may get lonely but God will provide the strength for me. I can do it and this isn't God's way of punishing me or anything of the alike.

From this statement I gather it's not God who needs this for you. It's your own guilt and discomfort with the reality of your life that you refuse to address.

If God made you, God made you gay. God would only exclude you from actually living life if he were a dick. I know that you do not think God is a dick, so why insult him by pretending that this unnatural choice will make him happy with you? For God's sake, live. Exalt him by choosing a loving man to love.

That's wonderful insight Mickey. Thank you!

xxxxooo -Doug

I've been struggling with this issue for the past year now. When I came to UT and joined a fraternity and started experimenting with dudes, I completely lost my faith. It wasn't until an eye opening experience over Spring Break at South Padre that I realized God's unconditional love and daily pursuit of me. I started getting involved in a christian youth group at UT, went inactive from my fraternity, and even shared my struggle of homosexuality with an accountability group. But over the past few months, I've realized my relationship with God has suffered due to the stress I face over this issue.

The fact is that we'll never measure up to the life God is calling us to live. We are sinful people, and God knows that. Because of what Jesus did on the cross, taking mankind's sins upon himself, we are able to have that relationship with God despite the struggles we face.

So we need to stop trying to change ourselves. That's just not going to happen. Experience the joy that comes from having a relationship with God and give him the full discretion and control of how you should feel. I've been led to embrace the life I've been given so that I can fully glorify God in everything else that I do.

Last Sunday the priest mentioned a 20-year-old gay guy who committed suicide. He evidently believed that God hated him and that his Church hated him. What a needless, sickening tragedy. It's tough to imagine how parents can cope with such a loss. I think it's wrong to say that God hates anyone.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

I thank God for every Christian gay man and for the uplifting comments by OtherWyze cvilleguy fhaynie81 WickedRyan The_Watchers Thorbaugh and ATX21ML:


And don't let people tell you you can't be a Christian if you're gay.

I believe in the tenet that we ALL have sinned, but that if we believe that God sent Jesus to die for our sins and redeem us, and we have faith...we will go to Heaven.

My advice would be to not let anyone deter you away from your Christian beliefs, somehow you have to find a balance between the two and find a place where you can be comfortable with both.

I am a believing Catholic...I love God and trust in him.He knows what is in our hearts.That is enough for me.

You do not have to find another denomination in order to experience the love of God. You can find it, now, where you are, in the Name of The Father, and of The Son, and The Holy Ghost. Amen

1) God Created Me. 2) God is loving. 3) Homosexuality is NOT a choice…

…We are sinful people, and God knows that. Because of what Jesus did on the cross, taking mankind's sins upon himself, we are able to have that relationship with God despite the struggles we face… Experience the joy that comes from having a relationship with God and give him the full discretion and control of how you should feel. I've been led to embrace the life I've been given so that I can fully glorify God in everything else that I do.

I believe that the Bible is way beyond human ingenuity, that its fulfilled prophecies prove that it is divinely inspired, and that it is historically and theologically the greatest book ever written.

There are, however, many versions and translations of the Bible.

As has been discussed elsewhere, "Thou shalt not kill" is a problematic translation of one of the Ten Commandments. "Thou shalt not murder" is more correct.

The term "homosexual" was reportedly invented in Germany around the year 1880.

Any reasonable person can question why a version or translation of the Bible contains the word "homosexual."

How could a translation of the Bible, the last book of which was written around 100 A.D., "need" a word which wasn't invented for another thousand years?

http://sauna-nut.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/gay-issues-youre-were-right-boris.html

NotThatOld saidhttp://sauna-nut.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/gay-issues-youre-were-right-boris.html

Well you had my attention until 'the gay lifestyle' expression reared its ignorant ugly head.

Being gay is pandemographic across all lifestyles, just as straight and bisexual is.

As Mickeytopgigio so eloquently stated, God is not a dick (as in jerk etc).

The true love a man has for a woman is a candle lit from the sun. I believe this is the same for the true love between two men or two women.

Paul disagreed. That kind of sin between men and women, for example, was only palatable if they were married, and he wished everyone were like him, celibate. If that wish had been followed and all of humanity converted to Christianity, we would have been long extinct by now.

Paul: " "To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion"

" "I say this by way of concession, not of command. I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another"

" "Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage. . . those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. . . . The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please her husband" (7:27-34). "

...and those little gems were aimed at straights.

I'm not sayin a word

i gave-up this kind of thinking 5 months ago it soooooooo stupid
i research then i found out that theres a miss interpretation from the original scripture of Hebrew bible to american bible about the whole story of sodon hays..
we just love and god is love so whats the problem?

as i experienced, if the person doesn't have an often close interaction with the same sex since little to growing up stage the person have a greater chances of being homosexual later on. its about psychological and prenatal issue base on sciences, logic and experiences.

btw im Roman Catholic and for us God is love, so lets love one another.

I gave up on this as well, feel a lot better now

Drop me a line. Im a College Chaplain. Im here to help

'god' can kiss my cute little homo ass even if he does exist. ♥

it is 2012 and the rantings of primitive cultures still echo, still torture, still control, still fuck over. amazing, sad. when as a species are we going to FINALLY grow up and ditch the whole religion thing and become fully human, instead of immature creatures, afraid of the dark, afraid of what we are told is "wrong", of "hell", etc etc etc...... come on people, grow the fuck up, do the mature and adult thing of letting go of the childhood fantasies that are whatever religion you were born into, and become a HUMAN. go to iTunes and download the e-book THE SKEPTIC'S BOOK OF RELIGIOUS QUOTES AND ANECDOTES. here is a good quote "if the lord had meant us to have faith, he'd have given us lobotomies"-- Zlatko. another "God is a sound people make when they're too tired to think anymore" -- Edward Abbey my father was a fundamentalist evangelical preacher, and i was deeply soaked in all that christian stuff. took a long time to unhinge from that, but finally am free. in reality, we are all atheists, i just happen to believe in one less god that you do......

Hey guys. I'm going to speak to the title of this thread, which I think gets the whole discussion off to a bad start. Specifically, I do not believe that there's any dualism between Christianity and homosexuality, so there's no need to "balance" it.

First, my understanding of sin is that which separates us from God. It can attitude, action or inaction, beliefs, evil or indifferent--sin covers a range of things.

Second, I believe that God made all persons in his or her image. In some sense that we don't entirely understand, there is an element of the divine in all of us--the homeless person, the successful business person, the person on her deathbed, the murderer on death row. That paradigm extends to the gay person, the bisexual person, the unsure person. In short, God made all of us, and loves all of us.

Third, if there is sin in this situation, the sin is in calling into question God's decision to make each of us as we are. It's not our place to do that, but rather to rejoice in the glory, splendor and diversity of the human condition. S

Fourth, there are many churches out there that will accept and welcome you uncondtionally. For instance, my church (Episcopal), while still not perfect, recently passed legislation anti-discrimination provisions for GLBT. And we've authorized a liturgy for use in blessing same-gender couples nationwide.

So, stop feeling bad about being who and what you are. Embrace it, run with it, grow in it. Be a better person. Know that God loves you and nothing will ever change that. And know that there are many Christians out there who are happy to know you, proud of you, and will welcome you.

meninlove said

NotThatOld saidhttp://sauna-nut.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/gay-issues-youre-were-right-boris.html

Well you had my attention until 'the gay lifestyle' expression reared its ignorant ugly head.

Being gay is pandemographic across all lifestyles, just as straight and bisexual is.

As Mickeytopgigio so eloquently stated, God is not a dick (as in jerk etc).

The true love a man has for a woman is a candle lit from the sun. I believe this is the same for the true love between two men or two women.

Paul disagreed. That kind of sin between men and women, for example, was only palatable if they were married, and he wished everyone were like him, celibate. If that wish had been followed and all of humanity converted to Christianity, we would have been long extinct by now.

Paul: " "To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion"

" "I say this by way of concession, not of command. I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another"

" "Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage. . . those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. . . . The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please her husband" (7:27-34). "

...and those little gems were aimed at straights.

Where did the expression, "Gay Lifestyle" appear in the article?

Don't give up on your faith, it obviously means a lot to you. There will be guys here that tell you just to get over your religion, or insult you, but you need to just ignore them. I've actually been bullied a lot recently on this site because I posted that I'm both religious and republican, but I don't let those guys stop me from having faith in my religion and seeing things my way.

I'm not sure I can give you any real advice on how to have balance between Christianity and being gay, because I'm dealing with it too. But I want you to know you're not the only one. I have met several other really nice guys on this site that are Christian as well.

If you need, you can talk with me about it and I will try to be as much help as I can. I just don't want you to feel like you have to give up faith because you feel alone in this issue.

NoThatOld, , at the end of the third to last paragraph right above the pic of the crucifixion.

" If that means quitting the gay lifestyle, then God will give him that power. It is not for us to tell him not to, unless he sincerely wants to know."

I'm with DCTalljock on this,
"Third, if there is sin in this situation, the sin is in calling into question God's decision to make each of us as we are. It's not our place to do that, but rather to rejoice in the glory, splendor and diversity of the human condition."

Beautifully said.