Boycott the Games

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    Jul 25, 2008 12:47 PM GMT
    The International Olympic Committee has seen fit to ban Iraq from the Olympic games in beijing. This on top of China's occupation of Tibet demonstrates the sewer the Olympic Games have become. We have no business dealing with these scumbags.

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    Jul 25, 2008 1:11 PM GMT
    Errr..... even FOXNews points out that Iraq is being suspended for not complying with the IOC's rules which state that the government of a country cannot interfere with the Olympic Committee of a country: Iraq suspended its Olympic Committee and did not turn up to the resolution meeting that the IOC proposed to overcome the crisis. The breach of the Olympic Charter was manifest and the action taken transparent.

    As you remember, the Iraqi Olympic team was greeted by a round of applause in Athens in 2004.

    Whatever you're on, stop taking it. And quit lying.
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    Jul 25, 2008 2:12 PM GMT
    Pwnt? icon_wink.gif
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    Jul 25, 2008 2:41 PM GMT
    Sedative saidPwnt? icon_wink.gif

    Dammit! Beat me to the punch.
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    Jul 25, 2008 3:44 PM GMT
    If you remember, it was Odai who ran the old Iraqi Olympic committee and our troops blew him up with a TOW missile. Like the UN, the OIC has a problem with democracies. We don't belong there.

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    Jul 25, 2008 7:34 PM GMT
    John43620 saidThe International Olympic Committee has seen fit to ban Iraq from the Olympic games in beijing. This on top of China's occupation of Tibet demonstrates the sewer the Olympic Games have become. We have no business dealing with these scumbags.



    You can boycott all you want. I'll be watching the Olympics this year as I do everytime they are on and enjoying every minute of it. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jul 25, 2008 8:33 PM GMT
    I agree with John, above. I can understand some of the political backlash we're seeing, but at it's heart The Olympics is supposed to be the one time in four years when nations drop the rhetoric and band together in peace and for the celebration of human physical and athletic achievement.
    I will be watching, and as I always do, I'll cheer on every athlete who brings honor to The Games and the Human Race. That's what The Olympics are about to me. The quest for human excellence and the will of the human spirit.
    It also doesn't hurt that they have some really sexy folks in Spandex and rubber, like in the new Speedo Razr suit!
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    Jul 25, 2008 8:42 PM GMT
    America! World Police! 2008 Olympic Addition!

    FUCK YEAH!

    I'll be watching that shit on a HD big screen, drinking Budweiser, and afterward I'm going to drive my car in circles aimlessly using gas and polluting the ozone.

    I just might slap a few nuns too.
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    Jul 25, 2008 9:05 PM GMT
    PhxAriz08, Israel is a democracy, why boycott them?

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    Jul 25, 2008 10:21 PM GMT
    I'm leaving for Beijing in a week and a half. I plan to enjoy it immensely.

    And by the way, some members of the IOC have stated that Iraqi athletes (all seven of them) may be able to compete after all, if their national Olympic committee will only provide a reasonable justification of their legitimacy.
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    Jul 25, 2008 10:40 PM GMT
    PhxAriz08 saidIsrael is a state created from colonized land, stolen from its native inhabitants (Palestinians) and turned over to Zionist European invaders through a process of militarily-enforced ethnic cleansing and occupation. I don't call it democracy. I say Israel is an apartheid nation. Just like South Africa.

    Who are the original inhabitants of Isreal/Palestine? As you go back thru time, you can make a case for various peoples. Also, as you back thru time, you can point out that the muslims violently conquered the area. So I suppose one could make a case that the land and religious freedom was stolen from the inhabitants. Islam didnt convert people by proselytizing, but by conquest.

    However, if you ever feel the desire to take your aggression out sexually, give me a call. ... icon_wink.gif
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    Jul 25, 2008 11:24 PM GMT
    Caslon5000 saidWho are the original inhabitants of Isreal/Palestine? As you go back thru time, you can make a case for various peoples. Also, as you back thru time, you can point out that the muslims violently conquered the area. So I suppose one could make a case that the land and religious freedom was stolen from the inhabitants. Islam didnt convert people by proselytizing, but by conquest.

    However, if you ever feel the desire to take your aggression out sexually, give me a call. ... icon_wink.gif


    All aboard the derailment train. Choo-Choo!

    Almost everything you wrote is both factually dicey and irrelevant. What Palestine was like politically/religiously for centuries prior to the present day isn't grounds for justifying Israel's existence. But, I might just give you a call to work things out too. Can we do a conference call?

    But, the whole Palestine = Tibet thing is ridiculous. They are not comparable. Tibet has historically been apart of the Chinese Empire which drives modern China's tibet policy. Dalai Lama is a title given by the chinese emperor even. It should not be anyone's desires to return Tibet to the rule of their god-emperor. Sovereignty is wonderful, but we should all prefer a democracy over the hierarchical society which oppressed Tibetans from within.
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    Jul 25, 2008 11:28 PM GMT
    Has there been a Summer Olympic games since 1945 that some country did not want to boycott? Maybe we should choose a country that everybody likes and have the games there permanently. All we have to do is find a country that fits that description (I cannot think of one).
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    Jul 26, 2008 4:58 AM GMT
    Clearly that country is Canada. ;-)
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Jul 26, 2008 5:07 AM GMT
    No way will I be boycotting the Olympics. I am counting the days until they start, because there is nothing in sports I enjoy watching more. The games are about excellence in sports, NOT politics. If Iraq got booted, they probably deserved it.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Jul 26, 2008 6:16 AM GMT
    And so it goes on and on and on over there --- a seemingly endless and vicious cycle of Palestinians vs. Israelis with innocent citizens on both sides getting caught in the crossfire. There are culprits on both sides, and victims on both sides. There is no wright or wrong, just endless bickerng and nothing gets solved. Such a waste for all concerned...a colossal waste. Pathetic!
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    Jul 26, 2008 10:14 AM GMT
    So the Jews have a homeland of their own, big deal. The Palestinians are Arabs. Arabs occupy almost all the others lands of the Middle East. Why not a place for the Jews in Israel? In 1948, the UN charter was to split Palestine into a Jewish state and an Arab state. The Arabs screwed it up by attacking Israel the day it declared its independence that's why Israel occupies MOST of the land they occupy now. They beat back all the 5 Arab nations that attacked it. If the Arabs never started the war back in 1948 in the first place their would been a Palestinian state! Blame the Arabs!
  • dglater

    Posts: 255

    Jul 28, 2008 6:25 AM GMT
    wow ariz way to go with all the copy and pasting.

    ""It is worth noting that up to 30% of all Palestinian refugees where PUSHED into the sea. Ironically, often Zionist "claim" that Palestinians are plotting to "push" Israelis (Zionist) into the sea.""

    provide credible evidence for this claim please.
    ------------------------------------

    after seeing that comment i decide not to read the rest of your post and the bullshit propaganda that you posted, as i don't want to think your completely brainless yet.

    So lets talk about the current situation and what you think can be the solution to it.

    do you want to destroy Israel and expel all the jewish population?

    do you want to create a Palestinian state based on the 67 borders?

    what about Jerusalem?

    Also, since you use the word Zionist so much, tell me what do you think it means? who does it represent? try to be as specific as possible!


  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14350

    Jul 28, 2008 11:33 PM GMT
    There is no legitimate reason to boycott the 2008 summer Olympics, why should we boycott them in the first place? Because the Peoples Republic of China does not match our standards in politics, government, and human rights? Yes I am opposed to China's harsh treatment of the people of Tibet but that is clearly no legitimate reason to punish the summer Olympics by boycotting them. The Olympics are totally irrelevant to the situation in Tibet. I plan on watching as much of the Olympics as possible. You can keep your boycott thank you. As for Israel, that country is nothing more than an international troublemaker. But America blindly continues to support this brutal, vicious little country because it is a so-called democracy. What a bold faced lie. Israel is only democratic to a certain group of people. Everyone else lives under a horrible dictatorship own and operated by the powerful Israeli Military.
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    Aug 16, 2008 3:37 PM GMT
    SoccerGuy82> Many Palestinians trace their ancestry back to the time of the Canaanites... The Canaanite culture is still very much prevalent in Palestinian culture. We can see this through much Palestinian artwork

    The ancient Israelites were Canaanites and other regional migratory tribes (e.g. the Shasu) who banded together... most likely to fight off the Philistine invaders. Contrary to Biblical tales (which co-opt earlier battles), the Israelites gradually settled the highlands in the 13th century BCE - at a time that no one was living there. Gradually pork dropped from the menu as a new religion took hold. Consider further that earlier Canaanite tribes known from Egyptian sources (e.g. Asher) later associated with the Israelite confederation and thus became one of the Jewish tribes. Consider further the good relations between the Israelites (the southern Canaanites) and the northern Canaanites (known as the Phoenicians).

    By about the 9th century BCE, Canaanite culture (and artwork) as distinct from the Israelite disappears. There are no accounts of Canaanites fighting off foreign invaders (e.g. the Assyrians or Babylonians) because they assimilated into the dominant culture and ceased to exist. Likewise the Philistines (which Palestinian Arabs, such as Arafat, also claim to descend from) were annihilated in 604 BCE by the Babylonians. Remnants likely fled primarily to neighboring Judea.

    The Arab Muslims invaded in the 7th century CE, 1200-1500 years after the disappearance of the Philistines and Canaanites. How anyone can claim ancestry from these groups, as if they had been abducted by aliens and returned after dozens of generations - let alone "artwork" - is beyond me. Why would anyone invent such an absurd and impossible claim... let alone try to peddle it? It's propaganda!


    SoccerGuy82> Palestinians are the descendants of Ancient Israel and Ancient Judea.

    Note that this is a different claim, that Palestinians in part descend from early Christians and Jews who were Arabized. But that's like claiming that because some Americans intermarried with Native Americans that European immigrants are historically the natives.


    SoccerGuy82> before the creation of Israel, everybody were known as Palestinians because the land was called Palestine and their birth certificate was called the Government of Palestine.

    Absolute bunk. Never in history was there an independent state known as "Palestine". Only after WW I did the League of Nations establish a Mandate of Palestine - the purpose of which was to re-establish the Jewish homeland. The Mandatory power (Britain) fixed the borders of the Jewish-state-to-be in accordance with Biblical borders.

    In 1922-23, Palestine was partitioned (for the first time) with 80% of it going to the Arabs and gaining independence in 1946 as Trans-Jordan. That is, Palestine across (to the east of) the Jordan River. Ironically, King Abdullah I wanted to name the country "Palestine" but the British rejected that because it would be confused with the Palestine Mandate which persisted west of the Jordan. After illegally seizing Judea and Samaria (as Trans-Jordan's so-called "West Bank") in the 1948 Arab invasion, Trans-Jordan unified and renamed itself as simply "Jordan".

    Ponder how different the understanding of the Arab-Israeli conflict would be if "Jordan" had been named "Palestine".


    SoccerGuy82> Did you know Muslims, Christians and Jews are suffering in the holy land under the Zionist rule?

    Israel is a democracy (highly regarded, ironically, by the Palestinian Arabs. Even amidst the violence and terrorism known as the Intifadah, nearly 70% of Palestinian Arabs give high marks to Israeli democracy and human rights). Nowhere in the mideast are Muslims and Christians (not to mention Jews) as free as they are in Israel. Israeli Muslims and Christians not only are full citizens with equal protection under the law, they (including women) vote and serve in the Knesset (parliament), even as ministers in the ruling government coalition. They serve in the foreign office, including as ambassadors. They serve in the judiciary, including on the Supreme Court (the only such court in the region, where any citizen can not only sue his government, but win or lose based on the legal merits... and live to tell about it). Israeli Arabs even serve in the Israeli Defense Forces (attaining rank as high as General), helping to defend their country.


    SoccerGuy82> The Israelis... are not the same ancient Israelite from the holy books... They are different groups of people with only one thing in common, theirs religion.

    Not just religion, but ethnicity. The majority of Israeli Jews are NOT immigrants of Jews who came from Europe/Russia/USA or their descendants. And as SoccerGuy82 himself knows since elsewhere he talks about Jewish genetics, Jews share not just a religion but an ethnicity. You can't speak of Christian or Muslim genetic signatures, but you can for Jews. Judaism is the tribal religion of the Jewish people. You pretend it is just a religion due to your own nefarious political reasons.


    SoccerGuy82> "It is worth noting that up to 30% of all Palestinian refugees where PUSHED into the sea. Ironically, often Zionist "claim" that Palestinians are plotting to "push" Israelis (Zionist) into the sea."

    The Arab refugees of 1948 resulted from the violent Arab rejection of the 2nd partition of "Palestine". That partition left the Jews with 54% of 20%, or about 12% (despite being 33% of the population) - and 75% of that 12% was the unpopulated Negev Desert. The Arab attacks on Jews began immediately after the Resolution, and once the British departed open warfare followed... the Arab war-cry being to "throw the Jews into the sea".

    The claim that 30% of Arabs were "pushed into the sea" is preposterous (surely we'd expect that thousands would have drowned, no?). In places like Haifa (which accounts for 10% of the refugees, and thus I assume 1/3rd of those "pushed into the sea" the Arabs were ordered to leave by their own leaders, and did so along the beach heading north - this despite Jewish leaders begging them to stay.

    Glubb Pasha, the commander of the Arab Legion, long ago noted that the majority of the Arabs fled without ever seeing an Israel/Jewish soldier often abandoning villages that were not threatened by the progress of war. Even the "New Historians" (e.g. Benny Morris) confirm this. Obviously they weren't "pushed" anywhere. Many were heeding the Arab call to "get out so we can get in" and also the threats that Arabs who remained to live in peace with the Jews would be considered "collaborators" (and thrown into the sea along with the Jews).

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    Aug 16, 2008 3:40 PM GMT

    SoccerGuy82> The Palestinians (under the Ottoman Empire) welcomed any Jew to come to Palestine as long as they learned Arabic and tried to work together with the Arabs (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) and not try to fight them:

    There was no "Palestine" under the Ottoman Empire, so this is another preposterous claim. Nor did Jews ever attack Arabs (the opposite is not true). Of course, most of the Jews already living in the region were not citizens but dhimmis.


    SoccerGuy82> The Palestinians were willing to share but the Zionists weren't.

    Total bunk. We see how well Arabs, Muslims and Christians, and others live within Israel - and yet not a single Jew remained in the areas that were invaded by Arab armies in 1948. There was complete ethnic cleansing of Jews by Arabs. From 1948-1967, despite assurances in the Armistice Agreement of 1949, not a single Jew was given access to Judaism's holiest sites in Jerusalem and Hebron. To the contrary, 58 synagogues and ancient cemeteries were destroyed (it was by ethnic cleansing that eastern Jerusalem became so-called "Arab East Jerusalem" - note, not "Palestinian East Jerusalem". Hmmm.)


    SoccerGuy82> Zionist terrorist groups (Haganah, Irgun, etc) did go into Palestinian villages and terrorize women and bomb homes.

    Bunk. The Haganah (meaning "Defense") arose after repeated Arab attacks on Jewish communities, including the 1929 massacre of Hebron's Jewish population. The Irgun broke off from Haganah and believed in retaliatory/revenge attacks for Arab terrorism. Unlike the Arab terrorist groups, then and now, the Irgun was small and its actions were condemned by the Jewish Agency (analogous to the Palestinian Authority) and by most of the Jews. Indeed, members of the Haganah even helped apprehend leaders such as Stern.

    Like in 1920-21, during the 1936-1939 Arab violence and terrorism (the original "intifada" if you will) the Arabs were attacking the Jews and most of the Arab casualties were the result not of Jews defending themselves (Haganah) or launching retaliatory attacks (Irgun) but of British forces battling the Arab trouble makers.


    SoccerGuy82> Israeli government is giving Jew people a bad name.

    Spoken like a hatist racist, as if even if what you allege about Israel were true (and it's not) it is a reason to hate Jews. Right in tune with saying "Drag Queens and Leather Daddies give gays a bad name" and "black thieves give African Americans a bad name" (yet white thieves don't give white Americans a bad name?).

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    Aug 16, 2008 3:42 PM GMT

    SoccerGuy82> I believe in one-state solution where Israeli and Palestinians live side by side

    Yet the majority of Israelis (including Israeli Arabs) and the majority of Palestinian Arabs do not want a one state solution. Perhaps because they saw how well it worked in Lebanon and the former Yugoslavia, or even Czechoslovakia (though thankfully it split peacefully).

    Hey, if a "one-state solution" is such a great idea, why not include Jordan, Syria and Lebanon in it?


    SoccerGuy82> I don’t think two-state solution will work, because the Israeli settlers in the 67 borders won’t consider themselves Palestinians

    That's hardly a valid criticism of the two-state solution. We saw how much choice the Jews living in Gaza had, and let's not kid ourselves. There won't be any Jews living in Arab Palestine because no one will be able to guarantee their safety from those Arabs who still yell "Itbach al Yahud" (death to the Jews), who believe that Jews descend from pigs and monkeys and are an enemy which must be destroyed (just read the Hamas Covenant if you doubt this).


    SoccerGuy82> Resolution 194, the resolution passed in December of 1948 that called upon all refugees to be allowed to return to their homes.

    Resolution 194 was rejected by the Arabs (because it called for making peace with Israel), but oddly some today wish to "line item unveto" one clause which they misrepresent. UNGAR 194 called "to facilitate the repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of the refugees and the payment of compensation" so clearly there were alternatives to repatriation - and nowhere does it mention that this is the case only for the Arab refugees (there were more Jewish refugees resulting from the Arab war of 1948 than Arab refugees!). SoccerGuy's duplicity is noted when he refers to Jews who returned to Judea, Samaria and Gaza after 1967 as "settlers".


    SoccerGuy82> I believe all religions and all people should share one whole Jerusalem.

    They already do. Jerusalem has never been as free as it has been, under Israeli rule, since 1967. Between 1949-1967, under [Trans-] Jordanian rule, not only weren't Jews allowed entry but the Christian population dropped nearly in half. When Israel liberated the city in 1967, it immediately turned over control of the Islamic holy sites to the Muslim Waqf (authority) and various Christian sites to the respective Churches.


    SoccerGuy82> Zionist is a political movement for cold-hearted people that support the establishment of a so-called "Jewish nation" what is now called Israel

    So now you are denying that there is a Jewish people?!

    If it weren't so sad it would be funny. The impetus for a Palestinian Arab state, since 1967 (but oddly not before) has been rooted in "self-determination". Yet Jews are not worthy of self-determination?!


    SoccerGuy82> Zionist support the ethnic cleansing

    Complete bunk. The Zionists accepted the 1922-23 partition and the UN partition compromise of 1947. It was the Arab parties who violently rejected co-existence. Not just then, but since then. Rather than accept UNGAR 194 (which SoccerGuy82 mis-conjured above), the Arab League in 1949 issued its infamous "3 NOs": NO negotiations, NO recognition, NO peace. After the 1956 war, Israel unilaterally withdrew from territories it captured. This good faith move was met with further Arab intransigence and a repetition of the 3 NOs. After the 1967 war, Israel accepted UNSCR 242 (which established the "land for peace" formula). The Arab League, meeting in Khartoum, regurgitated the 3 NOs, with Egypt and Syria again attacking Israel in 1973.

    Anwar Sadat finally saw the light and made his historic trip to Jerusalem to make peace, yet no other Arab party accepted President Carter's invitation to Camp David. Not only was Sadat assassinated (the assassin treated as a hero in much of the Muslim world, e.g. in Teheran there is a street named after him) but Egypt (the largest Arab country) was expelled from the Arab League.

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    Aug 16, 2008 3:46 PM GMT
    SoccerGuy82> Palestinians are fighting their right for freedom

    Bunk. Palestinian Arabs living under the Palestinian Authority oddly have less freedoms than they did under Israeli rule. Especially so now in Gaza under Hamas rule. I think everyone will agree that blowing up a bus in Tel Aviv or a market in Jerusalem has nothing to do with "self-defense". Indeed, if all the Palestinian Arabs want is "freedom", they could have had it at Camp David 2000 and Taba - when Israel accepted the Clinton compromise parameters which would have seen Israel withdraw from a net 97% of the disputed territories, including parts of Jerusalem and contiguous in Gaza and Jordan's former so-called "West Bank", and the establishment of an independent, sovereign and internationally recognized Palestinian Arab state - complete with the so-called "right of return" of Arab refugees/descendants to the nascent state, along with $30 Billion in aid and compensation to (only) the Arab (but not Jewish) refugees and their descendants.

    Do you think Arafat rejected this because he wanted more than 97%? That he was willing to forego everything and condemn further generations to all the "suffering" and "brutality" and "apartheid" because he wanted what amounts to about an extra 60 square miles of territory - mostly inhabited by Jews?

    Obviously not. Arafat instead started the intifada and re-turned to his old friends of violence and terrorism. Because he wanted not 98 or even 100% of the disputed territories, but because he wanted the rest of Israel. Just as SoccerGuy82 does - which is the real reason he favors a "one state solution" which would quickly become an Arab state.


    Does anyone here believe that when one party, for decades, rejects peace and coexistence and chooses to attack another party but loses that this makes them the "victim" of the other party? Or are they the victims of their intolerant and intransigent leaders? When they readily "sacrifice" even their own children, are they really anyone's "victims" but their own?

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    Aug 16, 2008 3:59 PM GMT
    KentuckyTuss saidAmerica! World Police! 2008 Olympic Addition!

    FUCK YEAH!

    I'll be watching that shit on a HD big screen, drinking Budweiser, and afterward I'm going to drive my car in circles aimlessly using gas and polluting the ozone.

    I just might slap a few nuns too.


    Haha fuck yeah broicon_biggrin.gif
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    Aug 17, 2008 2:23 AM GMT
    MunchingZombie said
    But, the whole Palestine = Tibet thing is ridiculous. They are not comparable. Tibet has historically been apart of the Chinese Empire which drives modern China's tibet policy. Dalai Lama is a title given by the chinese emperor even. It should not be anyone's desires to return Tibet to the rule of their god-emperor. Sovereignty is wonderful, but we should all prefer a democracy over the hierarchical society which oppressed Tibetans from within.



    THANKYOU!!