Wisconsin Unions See Ranks Drop Dramatically Ahead of Recall Vote

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    May 31, 2012 8:15 AM GMT
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304821304577436462413999718.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTTopStories

    Public-employee unions in Wisconsin have experienced a dramatic drop in membership—by more than half for the second-biggest union—since a law championed by Republican Gov. Scott Walker sharply curtailed their ability to bargain over wages and working conditions.

    Now with Mr. Walker facing a recall vote Tuesday, voters will decide whether his policies in the centrist state should continue—or whether they have gone too far.

    The election could mark a pivot point for organized labor.

    Mr. Walker's ouster would derail the political career of a rising Republican star and send a warning to other elected officials who are battling unions. But a victory for the governor, who has been leading his Democratic opponent in recent polls, would amount to an endorsement of an effort to curtail public-sector unions, which have been a pillar of strength for organized labor while private-sector membership has dwindled.

    That could mean the sharp losses that some Wisconsin public-worker unions have experienced is a harbinger of similar unions' future nationwide, union leaders fear. Failure to oust Mr. Walker and overturn the Wisconsin law "spells doom," said Bryan Kennedy, the American Federation of Teachers' Wisconsin president.

    Wisconsin membership in the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees—the state's second-largest public-sector union after the National Education Association, which represents teachers—fell to 28,745 in February from 62,818 in March 2011, according to a person who has viewed Afscme's figures. A spokesman for Afscme declined to comment.

    Much of that decline came from Afscme Council 24, which represents Wisconsin state workers, whose membership plunged by two-thirds to 7,100 from 22,300 last year.
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    May 31, 2012 11:23 AM GMT
    Is this an admission that Walker's goal wasn't to cut costs but to break the unions? icon_rolleyes.gif
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    May 31, 2012 12:20 PM GMT
    riddler78 saidhttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304821304577436462413999718.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTTopStories

    Public-employee unions in Wisconsin have experienced a dramatic drop in membership—by more than half for the second-biggest union—since a law championed by Republican Gov. Scott Walker sharply curtailed their ability to bargain over wages and working conditions.

    Now with Mr. Walker facing a recall vote Tuesday, voters will decide whether his policies in the centrist state should continue—or whether they have gone too far.

    The election could mark a pivot point for organized labor.

    Mr. Walker's ouster would derail the political career of a rising Republican star and send a warning to other elected officials who are battling unions. But a victory for the governor, who has been leading his Democratic opponent in recent polls, would amount to an endorsement of an effort to curtail public-sector unions, which have been a pillar of strength for organized labor while private-sector membership has dwindled.

    That could mean the sharp losses that some Wisconsin public-worker unions have experienced is a harbinger of similar unions' future nationwide, union leaders fear. Failure to oust Mr. Walker and overturn the Wisconsin law "spells doom," said Bryan Kennedy, the American Federation of Teachers' Wisconsin president.

    Wisconsin membership in the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees—the state's second-largest public-sector union after the National Education Association, which represents teachers—fell to 28,745 in February from 62,818 in March 2011, according to a person who has viewed Afscme's figures. A spokesman for Afscme declined to comment.

    Much of that decline came from Afscme Council 24, which represents Wisconsin state workers, whose membership plunged by two-thirds to 7,100 from 22,300 last year.


    I still think come election day that he'll pull it out by 10

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/governor/wi/wisconsin_governor_recall_election_walker_vs_barrett-3056.html

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    May 31, 2012 1:40 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree saidI still think come election day that he'll pull it out by 10

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/governor/wi/wisconsin_governor_recall_election_walker_vs_barrett-3056.html



    Yeah if former union members can't even be convinced of the value of their union membership (and may not even vote for Barrett), it's not surprising the rest of the public aren't convinced either.
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    May 31, 2012 2:08 PM GMT
    riddler78 saidWisconsin membership in the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees—the state's second-largest public-sector union after the National Education Association, which represents teachers—fell to 28,745 in February from 62,818 in March 2011, according to a person who has viewed Afscme's figures. A spokesman for Afscme declined to comment.

    Much of that decline came from Afscme Council 24, which represents Wisconsin state workers, whose membership plunged by two-thirds to 7,100 from 22,300 last year.

    This is dramatic, and shows what happens when people have the option of joining versus having their dues automatically paid without their consent. Even the workers are voting down the union bosses and voting down their dues going to support the Democratic Party.
  • jock_1

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    May 31, 2012 5:00 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidIs this an admission that Walker's goal wasn't to cut costs but to break the unions? icon_rolleyes.gif


    No, this is an admission that when given the CHOICE, many people dont like to be forced to join public unions and to watch thier hard earned money be spent on candidates or policies they dont believe in. If people pulling support for unions destroys the unions so be it.

    Wisconsin's election on june 5th is HUGE on which way the rest of the country will go in as far as dealing with public sector unions.
  • jock_1

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    May 31, 2012 5:16 PM GMT
    Oh, btw Christian, you never explained how you would have fixed things here differently that what Walker did. And you never explained why the policies enacted in Illionois are an epic fail for that state. Now Gov Quinn is proposing those draconian cuts to public workers pensions and benifits because....guess what?.....Illinois cant fucking afford it !!
  • jock_1

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    May 31, 2012 5:27 PM GMT
    newstalk1130wisn.com

    Listen to the pod casts of Mark Belling (fills in for Rush once in a while) or Vickie McKenna. Thet were both Liberals when they were younger and now are conservatives. They have been totally shredding the lies from the democrats on this election. It is entertaining radio to hear the lefties call up and get schooled on issues involving this election.
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    May 31, 2012 9:00 PM GMT
    jock_1 said
    Christian73 saidIs this an admission that Walker's goal wasn't to cut costs but to break the unions? icon_rolleyes.gif


    No, this is an admission that when given the CHOICE, many people dont like to be forced to join public unions and to watch thier hard earned money be spent on candidates or policies they dont believe in. If people pulling support for unions destroys the unions so be it.

    Wisconsin's election on june 5th is HUGE on which way the rest of the country will go in as far as dealing with public sector unions.


    If unions can't are forbidden by law from collectively bargaining around pay and benefits, much of the value of union membership is eliminated.

    What you are apparently ignorant about is that the decline in union membership runs exactly parallel to the widespread stagnation of wages and decline of benefits among nonunion workers. So "destroying" unions will result in declining wages and benefits across the board. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    May 31, 2012 9:04 PM GMT
    jock_1 saidOh, btw Christian, you never explained how you would have fixed things here differently that what Walker did. And you never explained why the policies enacted in Illionois are an epic fail for that state. Now Gov Quinn is proposing those draconian cuts to public workers pensions and benifits because....guess what?.....Illinois cant fucking afford it !!


    The unions in Wisconsin agreed to nearly everything Walker said was necessary to the financial health of the state. Still, he persisted with the law because his goal was never the fiscal health of WI but to destroy unions.



    And the donor he promised to bust unions for paid no taxes in 2010:

    [url]http://www.htrnews.com/article/20120531/MAN0101/306010011/Beloit-billionaire-Walker-s-largest-campaign-donor-owed-no-state-taxes-2010?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE[/url]

    So you and the other Walker supporters are being played for fools by the wealthiest in your state while they laugh all the way to the bank. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • jock_1

    Posts: 1492

    Jun 01, 2012 12:15 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    jock_1 said
    Christian73 saidIs this an admission that Walker's goal wasn't to cut costs but to break the unions? icon_rolleyes.gif


    No, this is an admission that when given the CHOICE, many people dont like to be forced to join public unions and to watch thier hard earned money be spent on candidates or policies they dont believe in. If people pulling support for unions destroys the unions so be it.

    Wisconsin's election on june 5th is HUGE on which way the rest of the country will go in as far as dealing with public sector unions.


    If unions can't are forbidden by law from collectively bargaining around pay and benefits, much of the value of union membership is eliminated.

    What you are apparently ignorant about is that the decline in union membership runs exactly parallel to the widespread stagnation of wages and decline of benefits among nonunion workers. So "destroying" unions will result in declining wages and benefits across the board. icon_rolleyes.gif


    You are wrong. If union members were so supportive of thier "cause" why leave the union? They should stay to support the "cause" of the unions. You would think if what Walker did it would make the unions more united and resolved to fight for thier "cause". The "cause"? to own democrats, to overcharge employees and taxpayers so they can fund political campaigns and to run states into the ground with unsustainable bloated benifit packages and lavish pensions to public workers which arent seen in the private sector. They use the public workers just to get the dues to run thier machine. The unions could give a shit about employee benifits or pensions or if teachers are laid off or if a company leaves the state. This recall wasnt about that, it was about collecting the $$$ for the national unions.

    NO MORE FORCED UNION DUES EXTRACTED. WORKERS NOW HAVE A CHOICE
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    Jun 01, 2012 12:59 AM GMT
    jock_1 saidNO MORE FORCED UNION DUES EXTRACTED. WORKERS NOW HAVE A CHOICE

    Same theme when the Democrats tried to take away worker rights to a secret ballot, indicating if they wanted to unionize. The Democrats and union bosses wanted to be able to stand right in front of each worker who would have had to announce their votes publicly. Just a bit of intimidation. Maybe along with some threats to beat up the workers' kids too. Who knows? Unions have been known to do some thuggish things, but ok as long as they funneled money to the Democrats. The game is up.
  • jock_1

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    Jun 01, 2012 1:14 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    jock_1 saidNO MORE FORCED UNION DUES EXTRACTED. WORKERS NOW HAVE A CHOICE

    Same theme when the Democrats tried to take away worker rights to a secret ballot, indicating if they wanted to unionize. The Democrats and union bosses wanted to be able to stand right in front of each worker who would have had to announce their votes publicly. Just a bit of intimidation. Maybe along with some threats to beat up the workers' kids too. Who knows? Unions have been known to do some thuggish things, but ok as long as they funneled money to the Democrats. The game is up.


    Yes, those same unions here that threatened businesses with boycots if they didnt stand with them. The same union thugs that threatened Senators at the capitol protests here. GAME OVER IN WISCONSIN.
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    Jun 01, 2012 2:00 AM GMT
    Christian73 said



    I am NOT surprised that riddler, freedom,socal and jock1 are VERY silent on this video.

    I would bet money they agree with the 'divide and conquer' politics.icon_rolleyes.gif
  • jock_1

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    Jun 01, 2012 2:38 AM GMT
    I'm not silent about it, the Gov actually knew it was being filmed. I am actually shocked that it was leaked by a dem operative as a film documentary...lol, give me a break. I agree with him and what he has done 100%
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    Jun 01, 2012 2:42 AM GMT
    jock_1 saidI'm not silent about it, the Gov actually knew it was being filmed. I am actually shocked that it was leaked by a dem operative as a film documentary...lol, give me a break. I agree with him and what he has done 100%
    Then I dont ever want to hear about a 'divided country' or 'divisive tactics' out of your mouth .......
    The hypocrisy will be phenomenal!
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    Jun 01, 2012 3:22 AM GMT
    jock_1 said
    Christian73 said
    jock_1 said
    Christian73 saidIs this an admission that Walker's goal wasn't to cut costs but to break the unions? icon_rolleyes.gif


    No, this is an admission that when given the CHOICE, many people dont like to be forced to join public unions and to watch thier hard earned money be spent on candidates or policies they dont believe in. If people pulling support for unions destroys the unions so be it.

    Wisconsin's election on june 5th is HUGE on which way the rest of the country will go in as far as dealing with public sector unions.


    If unions can't are forbidden by law from collectively bargaining around pay and benefits, much of the value of union membership is eliminated.

    What you are apparently ignorant about is that the decline in union membership runs exactly parallel to the widespread stagnation of wages and decline of benefits among nonunion workers. So "destroying" unions will result in declining wages and benefits across the board. icon_rolleyes.gif


    You are wrong. If union members were so supportive of thier "cause" why leave the union? They should stay to support the "cause" of the unions. You would think if what Walker did it would make the unions more united and resolved to fight for thier "cause". The "cause"? to own democrats, to overcharge employees and taxpayers so they can fund political campaigns and to run states into the ground with unsustainable bloated benifit packages and lavish pensions to public workers which arent seen in the private sector. They use the public workers just to get the dues to run thier machine. The unions could give a shit about employee benifits or pensions or if teachers are laid off or if a company leaves the state. This recall wasnt about that, it was about collecting the $$$ for the national unions.

    NO MORE FORCED UNION DUES EXTRACTED. WORKERS NOW HAVE A CHOICE


    You're lack even the most basic reasoning abilities.
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    Jun 01, 2012 3:35 AM GMT
    jock_1 saidI'm not silent about it, the Gov actually knew it was being filmed. I am actually shocked that it was leaked by a dem operative as a film documentary...lol, give me a break. I agree with him and what he has done 100%


    The funny thing is that they think some side show detracts in any way from the fact that these reforms have helped cities right their budgets without laying off workers.

    Further, if there's any indication that these reforms have actually worked it's how much support union members have lost. Of course there are some bitter clingers here who think that Walker will lose, I don't - in fact, I think things look quite favorable for Walker (http://www.intrade.com/v4/markets/contract/?contractId=759686 - odds are for 95% that he will remain Gov at the moment), Barrett is highly unlikely to repeal any of these reforms.

    This is what they are most bitter about.
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    Jun 01, 2012 3:42 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    jock_1 saidI'm not silent about it, the Gov actually knew it was being filmed. I am actually shocked that it was leaked by a dem operative as a film documentary...lol, give me a break. I agree with him and what he has done 100%


    The funny thing is that they think some side show detracts in any way from the fact that these reforms have helped cities right their budgets without laying off workers.

    Further, if there's any indication that these reforms have actually worked it's how much support union members have lost. Of course there are some bitter clingers here who think that Walker will lose, I don't - in fact, I think things look quite favorable for Walker (http://www.intrade.com/v4/markets/contract/?contractId=759686 - odds are for 95% that he will remain Gov at the moment), Barrett is highly unlikely to repeal any of these reforms.

    This is what they are most bitter about.
    You agree with dividing nations.

    Yep.. thats that silver spoon fed crap you've been raised on ..
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    Jun 01, 2012 3:51 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    riddler78 saidWisconsin membership in the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees—the state's second-largest public-sector union after the National Education Association, which represents teachers—fell to 28,745 in February from 62,818 in March 2011, according to a person who has viewed Afscme's figures. A spokesman for Afscme declined to comment.

    Much of that decline came from Afscme Council 24, which represents Wisconsin state workers, whose membership plunged by two-thirds to 7,100 from 22,300 last year.

    This is dramatic, and shows what happens when people have the option of joining versus having their dues automatically paid without their consent. Even the workers are voting down the union bosses and voting down their dues going to support the Democratic Party.


    It's crazy how much it has dropped - 66% of union members! Only 1/3 think they are worth the union dues.
  • jock_1

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    Jun 01, 2012 8:43 PM GMT
    I apologize for a prediction i got wrong so far about the non-recall election. I predicted that the holy one himself, (Obama) would show up to support Barrett. But Barrett has become so toxic Obama doenst want to get near him. Instead, Friday he went to Chicago, Minnesota and Iowa. Not to forget about the recall election and how concerned he is for the union workers the Prez sent Mr. war on woman himself Bill Clinton to speak for Barrett......LOL. I hope Obama waved as he flew over the state...probably gave everyone the middle finger instead.
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    Jun 01, 2012 8:48 PM GMT
    jock_1 saidI apologize for a prediction i got wrong so far about the non-recall election. I predicted that the holy one himself, (Obama) would show up to support Barrett. But Barrett has become so toxic Obama doenst want to get near him. Instead, Friday he went to Chicago, Minnesota and Iowa. Not to forget about the recall election and how concerned he is for the union workers the Prez sent Mr. war on woman himself Bill Clinton to speak for Barrett......LOL. I hope Obama waved as he flew over the state...probably gave everyone the middle finger instead.


    Given how well the reforms are polling, it's hard to blame Obama for throwing the Democrats in Wisconsin under the bus - a bus, I'd add which seems to be getting mighty crowded.
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    Jun 01, 2012 10:28 PM GMT
    jock_1 saidI apologize for a prediction i got wrong so far about the non-recall election. I predicted that the holy one himself, (Obama) would show up to support Barrett. But Barrett has become so toxic Obama doenst want to get near him. Instead, Friday he went to Chicago, Minnesota and Iowa. Not to forget about the recall election and how concerned he is for the union workers the Prez sent Mr. war on woman himself Bill Clinton to speak for Barrett......LOL. I hope Obama waved as he flew over the state...probably gave everyone the middle finger instead.

    Funny how the Democrats have been rushing to distance themselves from the whole thing. Claim they were never in favor of the recall in the first place and tried to dissuade the locals. Hilarious.
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    Jun 01, 2012 11:57 PM GMT
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/fewer-1000-people-show-bill-clinton-tom-barrett-rally-milwaukee_646392.html

    Fewer Than 1,000 People Show Up for Bill Clinton-Tom Barrett Rally in Milwaukee

    Just four days out from the Wisconsin's historic gubernatorial recall election, former president Bill Clinton and Milwaukee mayor Tom Barrett could only draw a small crowd to a rally on Barrett's home turf.

    As the Associated Press notes, the crowd numbered only in the "hundreds," a sign of the enthusiasm gap between Democrats and Republicans that has appeared in some polls. Overcast weather and the short notice of the event (it was announced just yesterday) may have depressed turnout. But a sitting mayor of a Democratic city and a popular former Democratic president still should have been able to draw more than hundreds of people Friday if Barrett supporters were fired up and ready to go. Congressman Paul Ryan has been known to draw hundreds of people to some of his townhall meetings in the Milwaukee exurbs.

    more on site...
  • jock_1

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    Jun 02, 2012 1:22 AM GMT
    Haha, yeah i know i drove by it driving through downtown today. It was a joke.