Last Weekend, Half of Germany Was Running on Solar Power

  • metta

    Posts: 39089

    Jun 04, 2012 3:20 AM GMT


    Last Weekend, Half of Germany Was Running on Solar Power

    http://www.treehugger.com/energy-policy/half-germany-was-powered-solar.html


    infographic_solar_germany.jpeg.492x0_q85


    Solar power generation world record set in Germany

    "Germany has nearly as much installed solar power generation capacity as the rest of the world combined and gets about four percent of its overall annual electricity needs from the sun alone. It aims to cut its greenhouse gas emissions by 40% from 1990 levels by 2020"

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/may/28/solar-power-world-record-germany
  • metta

    Posts: 39089

    Jun 04, 2012 3:48 AM GMT
    I think this is where they got it from:

    List of current subsidies:
    http://www.sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/EPW_Act_Section_by_Section.pdf

    Graph:
    http://www.sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/EPW_Act_Section_by_Section.pdf

    Energy Subsidies Favor Fossil Fuels Over Renewables
    http://www.eli.org/Program_Areas/innovation_governance_energy.cfm

    End Polluter Welfare Act
    http://www.sanders.senate.gov/end-polluter-welfare/



    http://www.sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/EPW_Act_fact_sheet.pdf
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    Jun 04, 2012 4:30 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]metta8 said[/cite]Last Weekend, Half of Germany Was Running on Solar Power

    http://www.treehugger.com/energy-policy/half-germany-was-powered-solar.html


    infographic_solar_germany.jpeg.492x0_q85[/



    It's not believable . Germany is not even in a Solar zone and the northern Germany is as foggy as SF. And I've been to the tech museum in Munich that states as much.
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    Jun 04, 2012 4:41 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    metta8 saidI think this is where they got it from:

    List of current subsidies:
    http://www.sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/EPW_Act_Section_by_Section.pdf

    Graph:
    http://www.sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/EPW_Act_Section_by_Section.pdf

    Energy Subsidies Favor Fossil Fuels Over Renewables
    http://www.eli.org/Program_Areas/innovation_governance_energy.cfm

    End Polluter Welfare Act
    http://www.sanders.senate.gov/end-polluter-welfare/



    http://www.sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/EPW_Act_fact_sheet.pdf



    Those aren't subsidies. A subsidy is a direct transfer of money from one party to another party, in this case a subsidy of the fossil fuel industry by the Federal government would mean that money would be given by the Federal government to fossil fuel industry companies.

    That is not what is happening.

    It is interesting how the Democrats have managed to redefine what the word "subsidy" means.


    Please enlighten me of what is happening in your country then. I agree with what you said about subsidies though.

    Here in the Netherlands Natural energy (wind / solar / water) can be cheaper although the market price tends not to fluctate as much as using " normal " energy.... which means you miss out on discounts sometimes.
  • vintovka

    Posts: 588

    Jun 04, 2012 5:06 PM GMT
    smartbart said
    southbeach1500 said
    metta8 saidI think this is where they got it from:

    List of current subsidies:
    http://www.sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/EPW_Act_Section_by_Section.pdf

    Graph:
    http://www.sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/EPW_Act_Section_by_Section.pdf

    Energy Subsidies Favor Fossil Fuels Over Renewables
    http://www.eli.org/Program_Areas/innovation_governance_energy.cfm

    End Polluter Welfare Act
    http://www.sanders.senate.gov/end-polluter-welfare/



    http://www.sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/EPW_Act_fact_sheet.pdf



    Those aren't subsidies. A subsidy is a direct transfer of money from one party to another party, in this case a subsidy of the fossil fuel industry by the Federal government would mean that money would be given by the Federal government to fossil fuel industry companies.

    That is not what is happening.

    It is interesting how the Democrats have managed to redefine what the word "subsidy" means.


    Please enlighten me of what is happening in your country then. I agree with what you said about subsidies though.

    Here in the Netherlands Natural energy (wind / solar / water) can be cheaper although the market price tends not to fluctate as much as using " normal " energy.... which means you miss out on discounts sometimes.


    While subsidies normally imply direct cash transfers, there certainly has been quite a lot of evolution around what should count as a subsidy. Most of that rethinking did not come from leftists, as SB would have it, but from free marketeers. For example GATT and NAFTA both have arbitration mechanisms intended to deal with the fact that Govts. frequently subsidize certain industries through preferential tax codes, low interest loans, or subsidized secondary services.

    If the US Govt. spends billions of dollars (and thousands of lives) protecting the global petroleum supply chain each year in places we would have no other interest in, then that provides a benefit to the oil and gas industries. Whether that benefit is direct or indirect, it is still an expense that appears on the Govt. balance sheet rather than the corporate balance sheets. Investing more heavily in solar would certainly reduce these costs, as we don't need to invade anyplace to have access to the sun--we have that already.
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    Jun 04, 2012 5:09 PM GMT
    Take in count that Germany can run with solar energy, only because they buy a lot of energy to France. They want to be ecological, but they never tell that they buy a lot of nuclear generated electricity.
  • metta

    Posts: 39089

    Jun 04, 2012 5:21 PM GMT
    Japan, which used to get 30% of its energy from nuclear plants, is working on closing all of their nuclear plants. As of May they did close all of them, but they plan on reopening I think 2 of them during the summer to prevent summer shortages, temporarily.The majority of the people of Japan want them to all be closed. So they will have to find other ways to replace that energy.

    June: Japan set to clear restart of two nuclear reactors
    http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/18673723/japan-set-to-clear-restart-of-two-nuclear-reactors

    May: Japan shuts down last nuclear reactor
    http://ijrnews.com/2012/05/07/nuclear-reactors-are-all-closed-in-japans-plants/
  • jim_sf

    Posts: 2094

    Jun 04, 2012 5:33 PM GMT
    hot_french_man saidTake in count that Germany can run with solar energy, only because they buy a lot of energy to France. They want to be ecological, but they never tell that they buy a lot of nuclear generated electricity.


    Germany's climate is also rather moderate, compared to the rest of the industrialized world. Air conditioning isn't quite as useful there as it is elsewhere.

    That said, the usual American approach of large-scale electrical generation doesn't particularly mesh with solar or wind power technologies. Those are a better fit for decentralized and extremely local installations, such as solar panels and/or small turbines on roofs.
  • vintovka

    Posts: 588

    Jun 04, 2012 5:54 PM GMT
    jim_stl said
    hot_french_man saidTake in count that Germany can run with solar energy, only because they buy a lot of energy to France. They want to be ecological, but they never tell that they buy a lot of nuclear generated electricity.


    Germany's climate is also rather moderate, compared to the rest of the industrialized world. Air conditioning isn't quite as useful there as it is elsewhere.

    That said, the usual American approach of large-scale electrical generation doesn't particularly mesh with solar or wind power technologies. Those are a better fit for decentralized and extremely local installations, such as solar panels and/or small turbines on roofs.


    ^^This^^

    Another model that has apparently been meeting with success is semi-decentralized solar fields--so instead of having to go through the permit process etc. for an area the size of twenty football fields, smaller open areas within or near existing communities are converted to solar fields. This simplifies the permit process, generates power closer to the consumer, and requires less in the way of start-up funds per project.
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    Jun 04, 2012 6:07 PM GMT
    vintovka said
    jim_stl said
    hot_french_man saidTake in count that Germany can run with solar energy, only because they buy a lot of energy to France. They want to be ecological, but they never tell that they buy a lot of nuclear generated electricity.


    Germany's climate is also rather moderate, compared to the rest of the industrialized world. Air conditioning isn't quite as useful there as it is elsewhere.

    That said, the usual American approach of large-scale electrical generation doesn't particularly mesh with solar or wind power technologies. Those are a better fit for decentralized and extremely local installations, such as solar panels and/or small turbines on roofs.


    ^^This^^

    Another model that has apparently been meeting with success is semi-decentralized solar fields--so instead of having to go through the permit process etc. for an area the size of twenty football fields, smaller open areas within or near existing communities are converted to solar fields. This simplifies the permit process, generates power closer to the consumer, and requires less in the way of start-up funds per project.



    This is true, as I work in architecture. Obtaining a solar power permit, one of the first questions you are asked in dealing with a arduous village board is whether a neighbor already has it or not.

    I like this concept that the public could be seriously investigation into some form of self power generating. All these technologies are in their baby stages, maybe a bit further. Imagine 30 years from now, 75% of the USA, using solar, wind and geothermal, to generate say 85% of the electricity. This concept makes the electric company obsolete, but they could change their services to the solar, wind and thermal power equipment maintenance (new jobs) or just move into something else.
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    Jun 05, 2012 12:56 AM GMT
    love the article. re posting on other social sites.
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    Jun 05, 2012 1:52 AM GMT
    I'm pretty sure the Germans would laugh if they heard about this. And the head of the think-tank is such a qualified source.

    According to German national statistics Solar-power produced about 3.1% of the Energy in 2011. (up from 1.9% in 2010)
    Fossils: 58.3%
    Nuclear: 17.6%
    all other renewables: 16.8%
    others: 4.2%

    While Germany has decided to phase out Nuclear energy, the reactors are going to run into the 2020s. Complaining about the ever increasing Energy-costs is one of Germany's favorite hobbies.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14303

    Jun 05, 2012 3:24 PM GMT
    Southbeach, the US definitely needs to start developing wind and solar power energy alternatives and start reducing its over reliance on fossil fuels. Solar and wind power are not the begin all and end all but they both are a significant step in the right direction.