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BCAAs - side effects?

  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jun 08, 2012 5:47 PM GMT
    After a few years of really just goofing around in the gym, I decided to take advantage of an unexpected 10 lb weight loss on vacation (don't ask) and get a little more serious again, staying lean and but also building a little more muscle mass.

    Since I don't seem to be able to eat modestly in the evenings, I decided to cut out breakfasts and eat very healthily in the office cafeteria at lunch. That led me to discovering that "intermittent fasting" is really a thing, and the recommendation on leangains.com to take 10g of BCAAs when you work out in the morning in a fasted state.

    So I bought some yesterday, and took them this morning before my workout.

    Supposedly, the one I bought (Amino X) has no carbs or sugars or caffeine, but it felt like I'd just downed a big bowl of Cap'n Crunch soaked in espresso. Huge increase in energy - I was really buzzing for a couple of hours - followed by a corresponding crash. It helped my workout, but wasn't altogether pleasant.

    What's up with that? I thought these things were just part of protein. But if it's spiking my blood sugar I would feel pretty unhappy, as I am trying to control cholesterol and I am a believer that there is a link (i.e., I somewhat buy the "wheat belly" argument).
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jun 08, 2012 9:11 PM GMT
    I just took a look at the ingredients for Amino X. My first guess is that your energy rush could be from the beta-Alanine.
  • JBinSFO Posts: 90
    QUOTE Jun 08, 2012 9:18 PM GMT
    Whey protein, which contains a lot of BCAAs, do cause a spike in insulin, just like sugar. And if you have no carbs in your stomach, but the BCAAs are telling your pancreas to release insulin, then you might get a sugar crash similar to eating a bunch of captain crunch.

    I'm not sure what the point of taking BCAAs and working out on an empty stomach are. Seems like every sane lifting regimen I know would advise against it.

    For an example of a study on insulin release following amino acid ingestion, see: http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/9/1/48/abstract

  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jun 08, 2012 9:20 PM GMT
    I've never heard of any negative effects of taking branch chain amino acids...I've been taking SciVation Xtend for well over a year now and have only noticed positive benefits.

    If it helps you feel any better...every single flavor I've ever tried tastes sickeningly sweet, despite saying it contains no sugar.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jun 08, 2012 9:23 PM GMT
    They bombard those things with Sucralose/Splenda like there's no tomorrow. disgusting…but I keep taking them.
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    QUOTE Jun 08, 2012 10:13 PM GMT
    Thanks, guys. I feel better. We'll see what happens when try it again.

    The theory is all here, I've latched onto it because it seems to fit better with my natural eating cycle. Some apparently go so far as to say that the whole eat every three hours thing is complete broscience. I dunno.

    http://www.leangains.com


  • MuchMoreThanM... Posts: 21492
    QUOTE Jun 08, 2012 10:26 PM GMT
    Hey, I do the same.

    What I want to know is, are you immediately eating a protein and simple carbohydrate meal (or protein/carbohydrate drink) after your workout?

    Don't hesitate to consume something after your fasted workout. You really need to eat something very soon or you will crash. I know this firsthand because I follow this principle from leangains.com. If I go more than a half hour without eating anything after my workout, I start to crash. Especially when I do leg day. That is a really taxing workout.

    It's really helped me lean out.

    Bring your meal with you or bring your protein/carbohydrate drink with you and consume it after you're done with your workout.

    I think if you do this you will do great.

    Not to be disrespectful but I don't find this abstract to be valid:

    http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/9/1/48/abstract

    This study above is using whey protein powder. Plus we don't know all the ingredients in the whey protein, they are not provided. Does it have any sugar? Does it have any artificial sweeteners?


    That study above is to observe the effect of whey protein powder. Not BCAA. BCAA are different in that they are predigested proteins and all your body has to do is absorb them. No digestion is required. Foods that require digestion are going to elicit many more bodily responses as opposed to predigested proteins (like BCAA). The same can be said for glucose. There could be an insulin spike if you are consuming something with artificial sweeteners. It has long been the debate that your body cannot tell the difference between real and synthetic sweeteners. If you have any doubts, just observe all the people who drink diet sodas in excess. It's not really helping their weight loss goals.

    Lastly, I hope you're following the workout protocol from leangains.com in order to support your fasted state. His workouts only require you to workout with two to three exercises at two sets each at no more than five reps each. If you can do five reps, the weight is to light and you need to go heavier. If you are following a workout that is an hour long (or longer) or has more volume than his suggested program you will indeed crash.

    His approach is a system that you really shouldn't alter too much. I spend no more than three days in the gym and my workouts are roughly twenty-five minutes.
  • JBinSFO Posts: 90
    QUOTE Jun 08, 2012 10:30 PM GMT
    showme saidThanks, guys. I feel better. We'll see what happens when try it again.

    The theory is all here, I've latched onto it because it seems to fit better with my natural eating cycle. Some apparently go so far as to say that the whole eat every three hours thing is complete broscience. I dunno.

    http://www.leangains.com




    You wouldn't be relying on a lone guy hocking his own book, promoting untested and generally discredited ideas now would you? icon_rolleyes.gif
  • MuchMoreThanM... Posts: 21492
    QUOTE Jun 08, 2012 10:38 PM GMT
    JBinSFO said


    You wouldn't be relying on a lone guy hocking his own book, promoting untested and generally discredited ideas now would you? icon_rolleyes.gif



    Martin cites academic and scholarly articles/journals to support his regimen. They can be found on his website.

    Plus, look at his body, the proof is in the pudding. His bod, along with his clients (he's a personal trainer) pretty much speak for themselves.

    In addition, he's not "hocking" his own book. All the information he provides on his website is free of charge.

    There is talk about a book but there is plenty of information on his site and it's all free.

    You're distorting information and not comparing the correct type of protein (whey versus BCAA). This isn't valid.
  • JBinSFO Posts: 90
    QUOTE Jun 08, 2012 10:47 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    JBinSFO said


    You wouldn't be relying on a lone guy hocking his own book, promoting untested and generally discredited ideas now would you? icon_rolleyes.gif



    Martin cites academic and scholarly articles/journals to support his regimen. They can be found on his website.

    Plus, look at his body, the proof is in the pudding. His bod, along with his clients (he's a personal trainer) pretty much speak for themselves.


    I looked at his website. If you have a particular study to point to, I'll be happy to critique it. I did find ONE study, and it did not pertain to taking 10g off bcaas on an empty stomach, it simply looked at myogenic markers post-workout while taking a carb and protein post workout drink. AND it compared it to "fed" state workouts that had 85% carb content. Who does that in real life??? And it was in untrained individuals, with workouts THREE WEEKS APART. Who does THAT in real life? And how much muscle mass did they add over time? Did it even MEASURE that? (no)

    As for his own body, we have NO idea whether he even uses his own system, do we? We don't know whether his is secretly taking anabolics that he's not telling you about, do we?

    Show me what 20 guys look like after 6 months of doing workouts on empty stomachs plus 10g of BCAA and then we can know whether it works or not.
  • MuchMoreThanM... Posts: 21492
    QUOTE Jun 08, 2012 10:55 PM GMT
    I'm not going to go through the trouble of seeking out the sources on his site that you can find yourself that support his training.

    He claims to not take any anabolics. I am apt to believe him. His website, his approach to training and his diet can all be accessed for free. From my experience people who tend to give away their information (for free) are people who have no ulterior motive. However, this is the case when people are selling their products. At least from my observation.

    I don't know twenty guys that follow his system. But Martin advertises at least a half a dozen guys on his site who have made substantial changes in their body fat levels. Martin isn't geared toward having as much muscle as possible. His goal is to have the lowest body fat possible.

    Spiking insulin levels by eating frequent meals (every two to three hours) lowers the body's natural GH output. Keeping insulin under control and allowing GH to be unobstructed is one of the approaches to keeping body fat levels very low.

    And this is what I look like, natural following his program of three days a week at about twenty-five minutes at a time with no cardio at all.


    4537decf557832367877650c4df0b069.jpg1fa1863bde64396c1722ebc9a37fd083.jpg

    These photos were taken after not being on hormone replacement therapy for three months. I'm only mentioning this because some of you might recall that I am on hormone replacement therapy from prior threads. However, the dose I take is therapeutic. It is not to gain muscle. But in these two photos above I haven't taken anything for three months.
  • JBinSFO Posts: 90
    QUOTE Jun 08, 2012 11:55 PM GMT
    First of all, remember the initial question, which was side effects of BCAA. his body is telling him something is wrong. It's generally a good idea to listen to one's own body. All I did was provide a research study to explain why he might be feeling what he is feeling.

    Secondly, it is really too bad that you didn't read the study I cited. You went ahead and tried to critique it, merely from reading the TITLE. The point of the study is to START with the premise/finding that whey is insulinogenic, and then they tested individual component amino acids and combinations of amino acids. If you are going to mount a critique, please read the study you are critiquing.

    Thirdly, while I cited one of the most recent studies that show BCAAs spike insulin, it is not the only one. There are many many studies showing the same going back years. And if you think about it, it isn't a surprising finding: BCAAs signal the body that it is being fed and ought ought to shuttle nutrients into muscle and liver cells. That's the point of insulin.

    Forthly, it is legitimate to ask what studies there are for IF methodologies. When I find his research citations for his ideas, there are significant differences between what HE recommends and what the study protocol actually uses.

    Fifthly, I also read all the testimonials on his site. So out of a bunch of guys who used his system or a related one to diet for competition, how many are not on the site, who failed to show lean muscle gains? Is there any objective data? Any control subjects? Any third party verification or peer review?

    I'm glad using his system worked for you. Truly! But until we do a controlled study, or at least until we have dozens of guys trying it versus other methods and reporting what they find, we can't know how widespread his ideas can be.

    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidHey, I do the same.

    What I want to know is, are you immediately eating a protein and simple carbohydrate meal (or protein/carbohydrate drink) after your workout?

    Don't hesitate to consume something after your fasted workout. You really need to eat something very soon or you will crash. I know this firsthand because I follow this principle from leangains.com. If I go more than a half hour without eating anything after my workout, I start to crash. Especially when I do leg day. That is a really taxing workout.

    It's really helped me lean out.

    Bring your meal with you or bring your protein/carbohydrate drink with you and consume it after you're done with your workout.

    I think if you do this you will do great.

    Not to be disrespectful but I don't find this abstract to be valid:

    http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/9/1/48/abstract

    This study above is using whey protein powder. Plus we don't know all the ingredients in the whey protein, they are not provided. Does it have any sugar? Does it have any artificial sweeteners?


    That study above is to observe the effect of whey protein powder. Not BCAA. BCAA are different in that they are predigested proteins and all your body has to do is absorb them. No digestion is required. Foods that require digestion are going to elicit many more bodily responses as opposed to predigested proteins (like BCAA). The same can be said for glucose. There could be an insulin spike if you are consuming something with artificial sweeteners. It has long been the debate that your body cannot tell the difference between real and synthetic sweeteners. If you have any doubts, just observe all the people who drink diet sodas in excess. It's not really helping their weight loss goals.

    Lastly, I hope you're following the workout protocol from leangains.com in order to support your fasted state. His workouts only require you to workout with two to three exercises at two sets each at no more than five reps each. If you can do five reps, the weight is to light and you need to go heavier. If you are following a workout that is an hour long (or longer) or has more volume than his suggested program you will indeed crash.

    His approach is a system that you really shouldn't alter too much. I spend no more than three days in the gym and my workouts are roughly twenty-five minutes.
  • MuchMoreThanM... Posts: 21492
    QUOTE Jun 09, 2012 2:05 AM GMT
    JBinSFO saidFirst of all, remember the initial question, which was side effects of BCAA. his body is telling him something is wrong. It's generally a good idea to listen to one's own body. All I did was provide a research study to explain why he might be feeling what he is feeling.

    Secondly, it is really too bad that you didn't read the study I cited. You went ahead and tried to critique it, merely from reading the TITLE. The point of the study is to START with the premise/finding that whey is insulinogenic, and then they tested individual component amino acids and combinations of amino acids. If you are going to mount a critique, please read the study you are critiquing.

    Thirdly, while I cited one of the most recent studies that show BCAAs spike insulin, it is not the only one. There are many many studies showing the same going back years. And if you think about it, it isn't a surprising finding: BCAAs signal the body that it is being fed and ought ought to shuttle nutrients into muscle and liver cells. That's the point of insulin.

    Forthly, it is legitimate to ask what studies there are for IF methodologies. When I find his research citations for his ideas, there are significant differences between what HE recommends and what the study protocol actually uses.

    Fifthly, I also read all the testimonials on his site. So out of a bunch of guys who used his system or a related one to diet for competition, how many are not on the site, who failed to show lean muscle gains? Is there any objective data? Any control subjects? Any third party verification or peer review?

    I'm glad using his system worked for you. Truly! But until we do a controlled study, or at least until we have dozens of guys trying it versus other methods and reporting what they find, we can't know how widespread his ideas can be.


    I read the article/document that you provided as a link to the study that you cited. I did NOT just read the title. It goes without saying that eating certain foods versus their predigested (and simpler counterparts) is going to have a different physiological response on the body. Need a comparison? Eat brown rice after a workout to replace the burned glycogen from an intense workout as opposed to downing a simple glucose sugary drink like a glucose or dextrose to replenish glycogen stores. The physiological response is not the same but the concept is similar for protein. Consuming amino acids is the simplest form of protein you can consume. Your body breaks down protein sources into amino acids before the body can use them to repair muscle and help build muscle. Eating a steak requires much more digestion and energy to digest as opposed to consuming amino acids. This is why your study is not valid. Eating whey protein requires more digestion than consuming amino acids. That is my point.

    Showme hasn't responded here to let us know how long he went without replenishing/feeding after his workouts. So until he responds we can't determine exactly why he crashed. If he did crash after following Martin's protocol for training and food consumption then we can conclude that Showme doesn't respond well to Martin's approach to weightlifting and fat loss. However, Martin doesn't guarantee results. He does state that his approach doesn't work for everyone. And I see nothing wrong with this. He's not selling anything for his own personal gain. He's sharing an approach that works for him (and me) and I believe no one should knock it until they try it.

    I hardly see the need go through the effort of creating control studies in order to verify if Martin's approach works or not. As I mentioned previously, his entire approach can be acquired by browsing through his website. Granted, it's a bit of a mess and I had to comb through many pages to find the information that I needed. But it's free and I find that it works.

    Not only do I find that his approach works well but it also allows me to live my life in a balanced approach. I'm not twenty years old anymore and I have other areas of my life that I want to develop and focus on. Through Martin's approach I can keep my gym and eating time to a minimum and do other things with my life. This should be enough for nearly everyone to explore what he promotes. It doesn't cost anything other than investing one's time in adopting his approach to diet and training.

    There are plenty of studies that support the benefits of fasting. I've already mentioned some of them such as limiting insulin response due to overly-frequent meals throughout the day. This also helps to support growth hormone release which helps to support metabolism. The more insulin a person has floating through one's veins the less output for growth hormone. I've also read articles in Time/Life magazine that occasional fasting also reduces the oxidative stress due to cellular metabolism and waste products floating around in the body from eating frequently throughout day.

    I've tried many different workout protocols in the past and I didn't need to have some scientific third party verify whether it worked or not. I simply gave it a try and some protocols worked really well while others were mediocre or they did not serve me at all.

    I can tell you one thing, if people learned and embraced fasting a bit more we'd have zero obesity and adult onset diabetes would probably be nonexistent.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jun 09, 2012 2:07 AM GMT
    Whoah, nudity.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jun 09, 2012 2:11 AM GMT
    JBinSFO saidFirst of all, remember the initial question, which was side effects of BCAA. his body is telling him something is wrong. It's generally a good idea to listen to one's own body. All I did was provide a research study to explain why he might be feeling what he is feeling.

    Secondly, it is really too bad that you didn't read the study I cited. You went ahead and tried to critique it, merely from reading the TITLE. The point of the study is to START with the premise/finding that whey is insulinogenic, and then they tested individual component amino acids and combinations of amino acids. If you are going to mount a critique, please read the study you are critiquing.

    Thirdly, while I cited one of the most recent studies that show BCAAs spike insulin, it is not the only one. There are many many studies showing the same going back years. And if you think about it, it isn't a surprising finding: BCAAs signal the body that it is being fed and ought ought to shuttle nutrients into muscle and liver cells. That's the point of insulin.

    Forthly, it is legitimate to ask what studies there are for IF methodologies. When I find his research citations for his ideas, there are significant differences between what HE recommends and what the study protocol actually uses.

    Fifthly, I also read all the testimonials on his site. So out of a bunch of guys who used his system or a related one to diet for competition, how many are not on the site, who failed to show lean muscle gains? Is there any objective data? Any control subjects? Any third party verification or peer review?

    I'm glad using his system worked for you. Truly! But until we do a controlled study, or at least until we have dozens of guys trying it versus other methods and reporting what they find, we can't know how widespread his ideas can be.




    The insulogenic effects of BCAA ingestion might explain a crash. But secreted insulin from BCAA ingestion alone would not completely explain the lag time of a couple of hours between the OP's BCAA ingestion and him crashing. Following ingestion of BCAAs, serum insulin seems to peak within fifteen minutes after ingestion and return to baseline within only one hour without affecting blood glucose levels(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21512300).


    Also, just to clarify a few things in the context of the OP:

    1)Martin Berkhan outlines a few different fasting schemes depending on what time of the day a person chooses to workout. One thing remains constant, though: a 16 hour fasting period followed by an 8 hour feeding period. The majority of daily calories are ingested immediately post-workout.

    Some of those specific protocols are for people who work out first thing in the early morning before their 16 hour fast is broken, with their first meal of the day being immediately post workout. I'm assuming this is what the OP is doing: working out in the morning before his fast is over, then breaking the fast some time after his workout.

    2) Martin doesn't actually advocate for fasted training. He actually encourages the pre-workout ingestion of protein.

    http://www.leangains.com/2009/12/pre-workout-protein-boosts-metabolism.html

    He sites this study behind that reasoning:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19997003?dopt=Abstractplus

    Although for the fasting schemes where one works out in the morning before their fasting period is over, he compromises by recommending that BCAAs or whey protein should be ingested pre-workout to reap the benefits of pre-workout protein ingestion while not officially counting as part of the 8-hour feeding period.

    3) The purpose of leangains is to maximize strength while staying lean as possible. There have been a number of studies with intermittent fasting on subjects doing a Ramadan intermittent fast. Some of these studies show decreases in body fat % (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22248495) in fasting groups compared to non-fasting groups. Others show no significant detrimental effects from fasting on athletic performance (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19910805).

    While there are no official controlled studies on Martin's protocols specifically, the idea of intermittent fasting as a way to stay lean while building strength isn't completely baseless.
  • MuchMoreThanM... Posts: 21492
    QUOTE Jun 09, 2012 2:16 AM GMT
    Just to be clear:

    The nature of this post was the side effects of BCAA's.

    All foods that we consume (with the exception of pure fats) will create an insulin response. But some will elicit a stronger response versus others. Consuming ten grams of BCAA will not elicit the type of insulin response as eating a breakfast high in carbs and/or protein. Nuts will elicit an insulin response because they also contain carbohydrates and proteins. But pure oils do not.

    BCAA will not cause a spike in insulin just like sugar. That is false.

    Also, BCAA products that are sweetened with artificial sweeteners but claim to have no actual sugar are going to elicit a higher insulin response than BCAA's that have no added artificial sweeteners whatsoever. Just like I mentioned earlier, the body can't be fooled with artificial sweeteners in order to avoid an insulin spike in order to enjoy artificially sweetened foods. This still elicits an insulin response.

    I personally consume BCAA's that have no flavoring (in my fasted state) even though they taste like stank ass. icon_eek.gif I do this as a way to elicit the lowest insulin response possible.

    I will add artificially sweetened BCAA's to my smoothies in the day while not in the fasted state.
  • JBinSFO Posts: 90
    QUOTE Jun 09, 2012 5:15 AM GMT
    Bromoflexual, besides having an enticing name, presents some interesting points. I'd like to address those points in the future!
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jun 09, 2012 11:54 AM GMT
    Wow, lots of smart advice here.

    I was really only curious about BCAAs. The rest was just background from my big mouth. Didn't mean to start a controversy. But:

    Yes, I work out first thing in the morning. I'm trying to come up with a workout and eating regimen that recognizes this is my only realistic time to train, and also works with the fact that I like to ingest most of my food at dinner. My spouse and I cook and eat well, have done so for 25 years, and that is unlikely to change.

    I just started back at this in earnest 10 days ago after recovery from an injury that has kept me sidelined for a few months. But really, I haven't been at all methodical about it for several years. I hasn't followed lean gains exactly - I have never lifted heavy, low reps. I'm starting low, concentrating on form. And I'm training at home with limited equipment - a Vectra VFT-100, which is a very versatile device, some dumbbells and a bar with some heavier weights but no rack.

    I did not eat for several hours after the BCAAs and workout. Perhaps I should have. I had done this for a few days without the BCAAs and been fine. I figured it would be just like ingesting a little nutrition, and was surprised at the results, good and bad. I'm generally not big on supplements, though.

    If I have meal right after working out that wouldn't be much different than how I eat now, which is the gain 5 pounds a year plan and which I wouldn't call intermittent fasting. Perhaps I need to just give that one up, but I will probably experiment more first.

    Thanks, all.
  • MuchMoreThanM... Posts: 21492
    QUOTE Jun 09, 2012 9:20 PM GMT
    showme said

    I did not eat for several hours after the BCAAs and workout.] Perhaps I should have.


    ^ I had a very strong suspicion that this is why you were crashing. After a workout you really should eat something. You can get away with not consuming the BCAA's before a training but you will more than likely crash if you go several hours with no food after training yourself. On a couple of occasions I forgot to take my BCAA's with me to the gym so I trained with no food and no amino acids and I did okay. But I try to always remember to take it with me.

    showme said
    If I have meal right after working out that wouldn't be much different than how I eat now, which is the gain 5 pounds a year plan and which I wouldn't call intermittent fasting.



    I suggest you keep trying. Since you want to workout in the morning this does create an altered type of fasting where you break it up it into two sessions. But according to Martin's site. You do it in this manner.

    Copied directly from:

    http://www.leangains.com/2010/05/early-morning-fasted-training.html

    Here's a sample setup for a client that trains early in the morning and prefers the feeding phase at noon or later.

    6 AM: 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 10 g BCAA.
    6-7 AM: Training.
    8 AM: 10 g BCAA.
    10 AM: 10 g BCAA
    12-1 PM: The "real" post-workout meal (largest meal of the day). Start of the 8 hour feeding-window.
    8-9 PM: Last meal before the fast.

    End of copying...

    So as you can see, your first true meal is around noon and your last one is around 8-9PM. This looks like the best option for you so that you and your main squeeze can still enjoy your evening meal together. icon_wink.gif But the trick here is to consume more BCAA's during the several hours before you first meal. I hope you try this and let us know if you still feel like you're crashing or not.

    I suggest you give this one more try and take more BCAA according to the suggested time frames I copied above. And if your goal is to burn fat, I would suggest consuming around 600mg of caffeine daily (in the form of either three cups of coffee or three 200mg caffeine pills) during your fasted state. Take one serving before train and then one after you train, basically one serving at each of the three intervals when you consume your 10g of BCAA's.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jun 10, 2012 4:34 PM GMT
    Thanks for the helpful advice. I doubt the crash was just from working out fasted - I can do that just fine without the BCAAs. But I will try again, and see if a couple more servings before lunch helps. I do consume caffeine, but have been moving more towards green tea after my first cuppa in the morning. Maybe on training days I should stick with coffee until lunch.

    Interesting the disparity of opinion on BCAAs. Some say that they cause insulin spikes but not insulin resistance. Others say they're just like glucose, which wouldn't be such a great thing for me.
  • MuchMoreThanM... Posts: 21492
    QUOTE Jun 10, 2012 9:49 PM GMT
    I think drinking green tea is a great idea. If you stick with a good brand you get some antioxidants and phenols that you can't get in coffee. I personally like green tea better (the flavor) but it only has roughly fifteen to thirty milligrams of caffeine per serving/teabag.

    I might even drink the green tea and still pop a caffeine pill since the caffeine in the tea itself is negligible. However, there is some ingredient in coffee that stimulates peristalsis which I need (my intestines are sluggish otherwise) so I may just stick with coffee.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jun 11, 2012 2:06 AM GMT
    Cap N Crunch and espresso sound awesome. I'll have to try that some time. icon_biggrin.gif

    And I take BCAA pills + carb drink about an hour before I go for a run. No ill effects so far.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Jun 12, 2012 3:34 AM GMT
    4537decf557832367877650c4df0b069.jpg1fa1863bde64396c1722ebc9a37fd083.jpg
    I was wondering where I left my washcloth.
  • nic_m3 Posts: 123
    QUOTE Oct 28, 2012 8:19 AM GMT
    showme saidAfter a few years of really just goofing around in the gym, I decided to take advantage of an unexpected 10 lb weight loss on vacation (don't ask) and get a little more serious again, staying lean and but also building a little more muscle mass.

    Since I don't seem to be able to eat modestly in the evenings, I decided to cut out breakfasts and eat very healthily in the office cafeteria at lunch. That led me to discovering that "intermittent fasting" is really a thing, and the recommendation on leangains.com to take 10g of BCAAs when you work out in the morning in a fasted state.

    So I bought some yesterday, and took them this morning before my workout.

    Supposedly, the one I bought (Amino X) has no carbs or sugars or caffeine, but it felt like I'd just downed a big bowl of Cap'n Crunch soaked in espresso. Huge increase in energy - I was really buzzing for a couple of hours - followed by a corresponding crash. It helped my workout, but wasn't altogether pleasant.

    What's up with that? I thought these things were just part of protein. But if it's spiking my blood sugar I would feel pretty unhappy, as I am trying to control cholesterol and I am a believer that there is a link (i.e., I somewhat buy the "wheat belly" argument).


    Skipping breakfast is the worst, I mean literally one of the worst things you could do to your muscles. You should be doing the exact opposite and trying to get some kind of quick digesting protein 20g+ into your body to stop the catabolic state your muscles are in.

    That being said BCAAs are greatly important and you should be taking them. They are essential amino acids that your body needs but can't produce itself. If you take some kind of shake check the ingredients. Chances are it contains BCAA's although probably in the mg amount depending on what your using.

    10g a day is the max of what you need and probably just overkill on your wallet without effects IMO. I take 5g a day on workout days and then just the amount premixed with my Whey on non training days.

    Lastly if you don't want any side effects you could just try taking Leucine pills.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Oct 28, 2012 8:35 AM GMT
    BCAAs do nowt I saw it on a documentary.