'Exercise Machines Are For Cripples'

  • metta

    Posts: 39104

    Jun 14, 2012 3:30 AM GMT
    Exercise Machines Are For Cripples

    I'm curious to see what people think of this, especially the personal trainers.

    http://gawker.com/5917788/exercise-machines-are-for-cripples
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    Jun 14, 2012 3:43 AM GMT
    metta8 saidExercise Machines Are For Cripples

    I'm curious to see what people think of this, especially the personal trainers.

    http://gawker.com/5917788/exercise-machines-are-for-cripples


    Meh, I use the smith machine to do squats because my I get balance issues with my prosthesis at higher weights. I'd rather not hurt or kill myself when squating due to not having an active ankle. So yeah, I guess I really am a cripple.
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    Jun 14, 2012 5:37 AM GMT
    Exercise machines are for inventor's who wanna retire off the profit of their ability to think up something that can be sold millions of people by telling them it'll make them get in shape.
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    Jun 14, 2012 5:40 AM GMT
    Machines are fine if you want to target certain muscle groups. But they should not be a substitute for free weight movement. Also, if you have an injury, then machines can be a "safer" way for you to perform certain exercises.
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    Jun 14, 2012 10:26 AM GMT
    Use whatever to get the result you want. Machines are for specific isolated muscle(s) because they restrict random motions. It' s the random motions that are needed for complete and well rounded development.
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    Jun 14, 2012 10:40 AM GMT
    I actually kinda cringed at the use of that word, "cripples". icon_eek.gif
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jun 14, 2012 10:52 AM GMT
    "when you walk into a gym, or "gymnasium" as they're known on the streets, you'll find three distinct areas: a "cardio area," where boring people are doing things I don't even care about; a free weights area, where people are doing exercise; and a fitness machine area, where crippled people are doing physical rehab. "

    this guy sounds like a real prize winner... and he completely ignores that free weights, though very useful, only have a limited range of exercises, and they're particularly inefficient for legs (where you need a machine or at least a weight-bearing machine to do many exercises, especially at a weight beyond your body weight).

    he sounds like one of those guys who brags about changing the oil in his car because to pay someone to do it would be a pussy thing to do.
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    Jun 14, 2012 11:07 AM GMT
    Blatantly dumb article. The guy even references doing behind-the-neck presses. Newsflash, asshole - your bum left shoulder is possibly a result of all your prior "hardcore" behind-the-neck presses.

    And then in the comments some dumb woman talks about people doing "quarter squats" on the Smith machine. I'm sure she's one of these people who does ass-to-the-ground squats, and as an accidental byproduct is destroying her knees.

    A lot of these people with "hardcore" complexes like to ignore basic safety issues. Whether it's hyperextending joints under tension or going to failure while holding a weighted bar over your neck, these people just don't care.

    Which is fine, because unlike certain domineering jackasses I can let a man exercise in peace. I'm quite happy to live into old age with functioning joints, instead of being that chick who will run like she's in the scene from Forrest Gump where he has leg braces. I don't need to pen screeds or go over and show them how a real man does it.

    It's a great thing to use free weights and work all those little stabilizer muscles and ligaments. Mix it up and use both, ideally. But if you don't have a spotter and want to use the machines, you're doing just fine.
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    Jun 14, 2012 12:29 PM GMT
    "...the whole idea that sitting in a fixed position and moving one single muscle through a rigidly controlled range of motion was a better way to work out, than just lifting a god damn weight. It is not."

    But it is better than doing nothing. For people who are not all hyped up on exercising to the max, it is better that they do a circuit of machines.

    If you don't want gay marriage, don't have one.
    If you don't want to use machines, don't use them.
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    Jun 14, 2012 1:06 PM GMT
    Come on now.... be nice... they're good for old people too.....
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    Jun 14, 2012 1:20 PM GMT
    calibro said"when you walk into a gym, or "gymnasium" as they're known on the streets, you'll find three distinct areas: a "cardio area," where boring people are doing things I don't even care about; a free weights area, where people are doing exercise; and a fitness machine area, where crippled people are doing physical rehab. "

    this guy sounds like a real prize winner... and he completely ignores that free weights, though very useful, only have a limited range of exercises, and they're particularly inefficient for legs (where you need a machine or at least a weight-bearing machine to do many exercises, especially at a weight beyond your body weight).

    he sounds like one of those guys who brags about changing the oil in his car because to pay someone to do it would be a pussy thing to do.


    This runs counter to everything I've learned from my trainer. Squats and other free weight exercises are much better for your legs and help to stabilize your core (free ab workout!). I've been warned that if not properly performed, doing legs on some of those machines can do irreparable harm to your back. I won't ever use them.
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    Jun 14, 2012 1:50 PM GMT
    I dont respect the use of the word cripple -not cool -isulting

    I use free weights a lot. but machines are great for exercising a specific muscle with intensity -what they don't do well is target the core area unless it is a core related machine. However -going back to your terrible use of the word cripple -these machines can be adapted for special needs people and certain sporting injuries. So they have their uses in the gym and it is a little less intimidating for those who dont like to exercise next to the muscle bound free weight users. It may not ne their intention to intimidate but it does happen. The machines also carry pictures/ diagrams to help people who are not so into the gym.

    Me
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    Jun 14, 2012 1:52 PM GMT
    I have competed in powerlfiting, strongman, for years and now I am a powerlifting/strongman coach.

    I use free weights, I use machines, I have used tractor trailer tires and sandbags. I used to train legs by going to a high school and pushing my truck around the parking lot at a sprint. For shoulders the other day, I took the heaviest medicine ball in the gym and threw it in the air for 60 seconds straight. My shoulders were on fire.

    Free weights serve a purpose
    cables serve a purpose
    functional training (using my car or a big stone) serve a purpose
    machines serve a purpose

    Machines have their place and specific purposes. For those purposes they are excellent.

    I bet the author of that article does stair climbers as cardio... hey dipshit... why not go to a stadium and run the stairs??? Oh... because the stadium is locked and it isn't convenient and the stair climber machine can serve the same purpose but conveniently.

    People who make fun of other legitimate training modalities are dumbasses. Period. I have learned strength training from gymnasts before... and they dont lift weights. There is something to learn everywhere.
  • GWriter

    Posts: 1446

    Jun 14, 2012 1:57 PM GMT
    MuscleBadger saidI have competed in powerlfiting, strongman, for years and now I am a powerlifting/strongman coach.

    I use free weights, I use machines, I have used tractor trailer tires and sandbags. I used to train legs by going to a high school and pushing my truck around the parking lot at a sprint. For shoulders the other day, I took the heaviest medicine ball in the gym and threw it in the air for 60 seconds straight. My shoulders were on fire.

    Free weights serve a purpose
    cables serve a purpose
    functional training (using my car or a big stone) serve a purpose
    machines serve a purpose

    Machines have their place and specific purposes. For those purposes they are excellent.

    I bet the author of that article does stair climbers as cardio... hey dipshit... why not go to a stadium and run the stairs??? Oh... because the stadium is locked and it isn't convenient and the stair climber machine can serve the same purpose but conveniently.

    People who make fun of other legitimate training modalities are dumbasses. Period. I have learned strength training from gymnasts before... and they dont lift weights. There is something to learn everywhere.

    Great answer from a guy who clearly knows his shit!
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Jun 14, 2012 2:11 PM GMT
    Ideally, a combination of free weights and certain machines that target particular areas are the bets workouts overall.
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    Jun 14, 2012 2:16 PM GMT
    First, the use of the word crippled is inappropriate. Nobody is cripped. Some may have physical challenges. Crippled indicates permanent insurmountable obstacles. Challenges are temporary roadblocks that can be overcome.

    Second, circuit exercise machines have their place- just like cardio machines, free weights, and functional training. Each is part of your "fitness toolbox" that you may or may not use to achieve your fitness goals.

    Third, fitness is not a "one size fits all" "cookie cutter" approach. Every individual is unique. You have to determine your fitness problems, establish your fitness goals, and work with a knowlegable trainer to develop an action plan that will help you progress toward meeting your fitness goals.
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    Jun 14, 2012 2:21 PM GMT
    catfish5 saidFirst, the use of the word crippled is inappropriate. Nobody is cripped. Some may have physical challenges. Crippled indicates permanent insurmountable obstacles. Challenges are temporary roadblocks that can be overcome.



    ^^ this ^^

    Yeah, call this dude "crippled" ... he is one of the most unbelievable athletes I have ever met. Did bench contests and threw up HUGE weight.

    Nick-Scott.jpg
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    Jun 14, 2012 2:37 PM GMT
    Gawker gives fitness advice now?

    That site is to news what Pitchfork is to music. It exists for the sole purpose of publishing snarky headlines. A leaked email from one of Gawker's managing editors was floating around a few years back with guidelines for how to get the most pageviews ... IIRC, one of the rules was to always throw in negative remarks so that readers would get fired up and return often to participate in the comment discussions.

    A headline like "Exercise Machines Are For Cripples" is nothing more than link bait. You can't honestly take anything Gawker posts seriously.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jun 14, 2012 2:40 PM GMT
    dd_bosmvy said
    calibro said"when you walk into a gym, or "gymnasium" as they're known on the streets, you'll find three distinct areas: a "cardio area," where boring people are doing things I don't even care about; a free weights area, where people are doing exercise; and a fitness machine area, where crippled people are doing physical rehab. "

    this guy sounds like a real prize winner... and he completely ignores that free weights, though very useful, only have a limited range of exercises, and they're particularly inefficient for legs (where you need a machine or at least a weight-bearing machine to do many exercises, especially at a weight beyond your body weight).

    he sounds like one of those guys who brags about changing the oil in his car because to pay someone to do it would be a pussy thing to do.


    This runs counter to everything I've learned from my trainer. Squats and other free weight exercises are much better for your legs and help to stabilize your core (free ab workout!). I've been warned that if not properly performed, doing legs on some of those machines can do irreparable harm to your back. I won't ever use them.


    that danger is true of most exercises, and that's more true off machines. if anything, many leg machines prevent the sort of movement you're talking about because machines usually restrict bodily movement to isolate one area. what you seem to be referring to is doing leg presses, squats (with a barbell and weights), and dead lifts, which isn't even the type of machine he's talking about.

    secondly, you'll be pressed to find most people who say doing dead lifts and weighted squats are too dangerous to be worth doing. if anything, those are actually the best exercises you can do for your body. it depends on you're training goal, but unless you have some sort of injury or bodily limitation, i'd fire any personal trainer who said don't do dead lifts.
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    Jun 14, 2012 2:56 PM GMT
    calibro said
    dd_bosmvy said
    calibro said"when you walk into a gym, or "gymnasium" as they're known on the streets, you'll find three distinct areas: a "cardio area," where boring people are doing things I don't even care about; a free weights area, where people are doing exercise; and a fitness machine area, where crippled people are doing physical rehab. "

    this guy sounds like a real prize winner... and he completely ignores that free weights, though very useful, only have a limited range of exercises, and they're particularly inefficient for legs (where you need a machine or at least a weight-bearing machine to do many exercises, especially at a weight beyond your body weight).

    he sounds like one of those guys who brags about changing the oil in his car because to pay someone to do it would be a pussy thing to do.


    This runs counter to everything I've learned from my trainer. Squats and other free weight exercises are much better for your legs and help to stabilize your core (free ab workout!). I've been warned that if not properly performed, doing legs on some of those machines can do irreparable harm to your back. I won't ever use them.


    that danger is true of most exercises, and that's more true off machines. if anything, many leg machines prevent the sort of movement you're talking about because machines usually restrict bodily movement to isolate one area. what you seem to be referring to is doing leg presses, squats (with a barbell and weights), and dead lifts, which isn't even the type of machine he's talking about.

    secondly, you'll be pressed to find most people who say doing dead lifts and weighted squats are too dangerous to be worth doing. if anything, those are actually the best exercises you can do for your body. it depends on you're training goal, but unless you have some sort of injury or bodily limitation, i'd fire any personal trainer who said don't do dead lifts.


    I'm not goading you into a fight/argument, and I'm honestly not sure from your response if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. My trainer has particular disdain for seated leg presses, which people tend to overload with weight and thereby risk serious damage to their back and spinal cord. I DO disagree with your earlier point about free weights having a limited range of exercises for legs, as there are so many options to hit just about every part of the leg. Beyond squatting with a barbell, you can do deadlifts (which you mentioned), split-squats with dumbbells, lunges with dumbbells, one-legged squats with or without dumbbells, seated calf-raises with plates etc etc.

    As has been posted earlier, there may be a use for machines for some people. I've been told that targeting a specific muscle part with a machine can be counterproductive and risk damage, but that's one trainer's opinion (albeit, one who is certified with a degree in sports medicine and a body that I would KILL to have). IMO machines should be used by gym newbies, and people who are a bit more advanced should focus on free weights. But to each his own...do what works for you.
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    Jun 14, 2012 3:07 PM GMT
    Best comment on the article to the author: "….you sir are the byproduct of anal felching"
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jun 14, 2012 3:17 PM GMT
    dd_bosmvy said
    calibro said
    dd_bosmvy said
    calibro said"when you walk into a gym, or "gymnasium" as they're known on the streets, you'll find three distinct areas: a "cardio area," where boring people are doing things I don't even care about; a free weights area, where people are doing exercise; and a fitness machine area, where crippled people are doing physical rehab. "

    this guy sounds like a real prize winner... and he completely ignores that free weights, though very useful, only have a limited range of exercises, and they're particularly inefficient for legs (where you need a machine or at least a weight-bearing machine to do many exercises, especially at a weight beyond your body weight).

    he sounds like one of those guys who brags about changing the oil in his car because to pay someone to do it would be a pussy thing to do.


    This runs counter to everything I've learned from my trainer. Squats and other free weight exercises are much better for your legs and help to stabilize your core (free ab workout!). I've been warned that if not properly performed, doing legs on some of those machines can do irreparable harm to your back. I won't ever use them.


    that danger is true of most exercises, and that's more true off machines. if anything, many leg machines prevent the sort of movement you're talking about because machines usually restrict bodily movement to isolate one area. what you seem to be referring to is doing leg presses, squats (with a barbell and weights), and dead lifts, which isn't even the type of machine he's talking about.

    secondly, you'll be pressed to find most people who say doing dead lifts and weighted squats are too dangerous to be worth doing. if anything, those are actually the best exercises you can do for your body. it depends on you're training goal, but unless you have some sort of injury or bodily limitation, i'd fire any personal trainer who said don't do dead lifts.


    I'm not goading you into a fight/argument, and I'm honestly not sure from your response if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. My trainer has particular disdain for seated leg presses, which people tend to overload with weight and thereby risk serious damage to their back and spinal cord. I DO disagree with your earlier point about free weights having a limited range of exercises for legs, as there are so many options to hit just about every part of the leg. Beyond squatting with a barbell, you can do deadlifts (which you mentioned), split-squats with dumbbells, lunges with dumbbells, one-legged squats with or without dumbbells, seated calf-raises with plates etc etc.

    As has been posted earlier, there may be a use for machines for some people. I've been told that targeting a specific muscle part with a machine can be counterproductive and risk damage, but that's one trainer's opinion (albeit, one who is certified with a degree in sports medicine and a body that I would KILL to have). IMO machines should be used by gym newbies, and people who are a bit more advanced should focus on free weights. But to each his own...do what works for you.


    i'm not disagreeing or agreeing as much as commenting to specific points as i see them.

    having a disdain from a seated leg press is a very different statement than being against leg machines. so to say your trainer is against leg machines based on that isn't necessarily true if that's all he objects to.

    as for machines being unsafe, squatting with a barbell is much safer in a machine-based cage.

    in reference to dead lifts, dead lifts have a giant potential to wreck all sorts of your body... squats and dead lifts will do damage with poor form, stance, too much weight.... it's not to say a bicep curl can't do great damage either, and people probably injure themselves from bicep curls much more than they do dead lifts because they think of curls as nothing to pay attention to, but the weight and possibilities for range of damage in something like a squat is greater. still, you even admit doing them.

    i'm not saying you can't do a lot with free weights, but a lot of people ignore the fact that the legs have many muscles to them... hello hip flexors. if you're going to do something like work on hip ad/bduction, you really need a machine.

    and i wouldn't go just by trainers, especially the pretty boys. i worked at a gym as a cycling instructor. trainer certification is laughable, and many trainers are fit for reasons that deal with great genes. unless your guy has a masters in a related field, he's not impressive on those qualifications. i still find it hard to believe the shit trainers at my gym spouted.

    and as for newbies and seated leg presses... i warm up with about 500 pounds, don't even start feeling it until 800ish. if you have a better idea of how to get an 800-pound equivalency from free weights in some standing form exercise without crushing my body, i'd be interested in hearing it.
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    Jun 14, 2012 3:53 PM GMT
    calibro said
    dd_bosmvy said
    calibro said
    dd_bosmvy said
    calibro said"when you walk into a gym, or "gymnasium" as they're known on the streets, you'll find three distinct areas: a "cardio area," where boring people are doing things I don't even care about; a free weights area, where people are doing exercise; and a fitness machine area, where crippled people are doing physical rehab. "

    this guy sounds like a real prize winner... and he completely ignores that free weights, though very useful, only have a limited range of exercises, and they're particularly inefficient for legs (where you need a machine or at least a weight-bearing machine to do many exercises, especially at a weight beyond your body weight).

    he sounds like one of those guys who brags about changing the oil in his car because to pay someone to do it would be a pussy thing to do.


    This runs counter to everything I've learned from my trainer. Squats and other free weight exercises are much better for your legs and help to stabilize your core (free ab workout!). I've been warned that if not properly performed, doing legs on some of those machines can do irreparable harm to your back. I won't ever use them.


    that danger is true of most exercises, and that's more true off machines. if anything, many leg machines prevent the sort of movement you're talking about because machines usually restrict bodily movement to isolate one area. what you seem to be referring to is doing leg presses, squats (with a barbell and weights), and dead lifts, which isn't even the type of machine he's talking about.

    secondly, you'll be pressed to find most people who say doing dead lifts and weighted squats are too dangerous to be worth doing. if anything, those are actually the best exercises you can do for your body. it depends on you're training goal, but unless you have some sort of injury or bodily limitation, i'd fire any personal trainer who said don't do dead lifts.


    I'm not goading you into a fight/argument, and I'm honestly not sure from your response if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. My trainer has particular disdain for seated leg presses, which people tend to overload with weight and thereby risk serious damage to their back and spinal cord. I DO disagree with your earlier point about free weights having a limited range of exercises for legs, as there are so many options to hit just about every part of the leg. Beyond squatting with a barbell, you can do deadlifts (which you mentioned), split-squats with dumbbells, lunges with dumbbells, one-legged squats with or without dumbbells, seated calf-raises with plates etc etc.

    As has been posted earlier, there may be a use for machines for some people. I've been told that targeting a specific muscle part with a machine can be counterproductive and risk damage, but that's one trainer's opinion (albeit, one who is certified with a degree in sports medicine and a body that I would KILL to have). IMO machines should be used by gym newbies, and people who are a bit more advanced should focus on free weights. But to each his own...do what works for you.


    i'm not disagreeing or agreeing as much as commenting to specific points as i see them.

    having a disdain from a seated leg press is a very different statement than being against leg machines. so to say your trainer is against leg machines based on that isn't necessarily true if that's all he objects to.

    as for machines being unsafe, squatting with a barbell is much safer in a machine-based cage.

    in reference to dead lifts, dead lifts have a giant potential to wreck all sorts of your body... squats and dead lifts will do damage with poor form, stance, too much weight.... it's not to say a bicep curl can't do great damage either, and people probably injure themselves from bicep curls much more than they do dead lifts because they think of curls as nothing to pay attention to, but the weight and possibilities for range of damage in something like a squat is greater. still, you even admit doing them.

    i'm not saying you can't do a lot with free weights, but a lot of people ignore the fact that the legs have many muscles to them... hello hip flexors. if you're going to do something like work on hip ad/bduction, you really need a machine.

    and i wouldn't go just by trainers, especially the pretty boys. i worked at a gym as a cycling instructor. trainer certification is laughable, and many trainers are fit for reasons that deal with great genes. unless your guy has a masters in a related field, he's not impressive on those qualifications. i still find it hard to believe the shit trainers at my gym spouted.

    and as for newbies and seated leg presses... i warm up with about 500 pounds, don't even start feeling it until 800ish. if you have a better idea of how to get an 800-pound equivalency from free weights in some standing form exercise without crushing my body, i'd be interested in hearing it.


    To clarify, my trainer is pretty much completely against the use of any machines. We did use a weighted pull-up machine when I was first starting out, but that was because I couldn't do more than a few pull-ups on my own. I can see him physically cringe when he sees people using the seated leg press. He's more or less told me that if I want to use machines I should probably find another trainer. And to his background, I'm not sure if it's a masters or not, but he is continually going to classes and perfecting his trade, and he's quoted in some respectable magazines and online. He's far from a pretty boy, actually a little too muscular for my taste in men. He's a perfectionist when it comes to form, and as long as I do what he says, I'm not worried about doing any real/permanent damage. He's done well by me so far, so I'm going to continue to heed his advice.

    As to your comments on the seated leg press and weights you're using, I'm not going to comment as I don't know your goals, etc. But I know that I don't need to press NEARLY that amount of weight to get the leaner, toned but sorta muscular body I'm working toward.

    And thanks for keeping this civil. Always good to have a open exchange of ideas and suggestions/opinions without it devolving into a heated mess as so many of the topics seem to do on here.
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    Jun 14, 2012 4:00 PM GMT
    MuscleBadger said

    People who make fun of other legitimate training modalities are dumbasses. Period. I have learned strength training from gymnasts before... and they dont lift weights. There is something to learn everywhere.



    Well-said. The article's title alone put me off, because i pretty much predicted what the content would be.

    And yes, there IS something to learn everywhere. When i was doing yoga regularly, i found that it complemented my lower body/legs training, I felt more stable and was actually MUCH stronger after a few months of yoga.
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    Jun 14, 2012 4:10 PM GMT
    The only problem with machines is that I think people use them out of fear of free weights and the reality is, free weights are generally better.

    Machines have their place for targetting specific muscles, or assisting people with injuries, or I really like the leg press to finish my legs after some squats. But too often you see people use machines completely instead of free weights and thats obviously their choice but if they'd just overcome whatever fears they have, they'd find their time at the gym a lot more productive.

    Squats are a great example of an exercise that people shun for lots of bogus reasons (cough knees cough back - and I'm not talking about pre-existing injuries) which is unfortunate because its probably one of the best out there.