Greece election: pro-bailout party to attempt coalition

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    Jun 17, 2012 10:25 PM GMT
    The leader of Greece's pro-bailout New Democracy party, set to win most seats in a general election, says he wants to form a government as soon as possible.

    Antonis Samaras said Greeks had voted to stay in the euro, and called for a "national salvation government".

    The leader of the anti-bailout Syriza party, Alexis Tsipras, which came a close second, agreed Mr Samaras should be first to try to form a coalition.

    Germany said it viewed the result as a decision to "forge ahead" with reform.

    With 80% of votes counted, interior ministry projections put New Democracy on 29.9% of the vote (130 seats), Syriza on 26.7% (71) and the socialist Pasok on 12.4% (33).

    New Democracy leader Mr Samaras said: "The Greek people voted today to stay on the European course and remain in the eurozone.

    "There will be no more adventures. Greece's place in Europe will not be put in doubt."

    "The sacrifices of the Greek people will bring the country back to prosperity," he promised.

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    Read More: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18478982
  • funkymonkey

    Posts: 194

    Jun 17, 2012 10:44 PM GMT
    kind of annoying, i was hoping for a greek euro exit (i fancy a cheap greek holiday - post euro).
    but the again no one even knows if it will ever be possible to kick greece out.
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    Jun 17, 2012 11:00 PM GMT
    I am not an economist, but how the fuck is Greece going to pay back these "bail outs" if it doesn't even have the cash to pay it's own bills icon_question.gificon_question.gificon_question.gificon_question.gif

    A 'Grexit' is the best option FOR Greece - fuck Europe.

    Italy, Spain, Ireland & Portugal SHOULD resort back to their old currencies icon_exclaim.gificon_exclaim.gificon_exclaim.gificon_exclaim.gificon_exclaim.gificon_exclaim.gif

    Greece-ID202-1000.jpg

    As far as I understand it; if Greece goes down it drags alot of other countries down with it. Even our own economy, here in South Africa, will feel the consequences. I honestly feel for the honest people of Greece; that have had their hard earned pensions cut in half and don't have money to buy food etc.
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    Jun 17, 2012 11:49 PM GMT
    venue35 said"GERMANY" has pocketed over 200 billion from my country's "BAIL OUT". ....


    Reflecting Venue's post, here's an article from May 25th 2012

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/619341-how-greece-will-drag-down-europe-and-refuse-to-leave

    "...So Greece will cling to the euro, even at the price of a deeper depression. Only in the long run - I think in more than a year - will the Greek crisis finally approach some kind of end game.

    But the most pressing issue by then will not be Greece's euro membership. Europe will eventually have to decide whether to provide Greece with a third, bigger bailout, or let the Greek banking system and economy collapse utterly.

    All folly must end eventually. Greece's ELA (emergency liquidity assistance) folly will end with the cash gone abroad and the collateral turning out worthless.

    Eventually, Europeans will realize that the losses of the Greek banking system have been foisted on them, bit by bit, ELA loan by ELA loan....

    ...There is no way Greece can ever be forced to pay for the banking losses that it is monetizing through ELA. The money is going to private parties' accounts at mostly German banks. The bad assets are hanging slightly over the Greek central bank's balance sheet, ready to be dropped there in a big, stinking pile as soon as Greek banks are cut off from central bank financing.

    ...And if you think that sounds like a nightmare, wait till you hear about Spain.
    "
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    Jun 18, 2012 1:17 AM GMT
    venue35 saidThank god some people have done their reading. Thatcher was wise for urging the UK to keep their old currency. So the Euro is not all it was cracked up to be. Or was this the plan from the beginning? The drachma was great untill the euro came and all of a sudden everything became so expensive.


    I try to keep up on it but I do not claim to understand it.

    As to being planned? Man, who knows. It would be pretty silly to think in terms of conspiracy, but then again, it would be pretty stupid to discount the possibility. When you look at the stakes, at the 700 trillion dollars derivatives market--I don't even know what those numbers mean--but man, it seems like you could buy a few geniuses and supercomputers to have figured all this out ahead of time.

    On the other hand, this world is pretty complex and who knows what heads might roll.

    So on that front I guess you'd have to pick your conspiracy. Germany's financial WWIII? A three way chess game between the USA, the Euro and China? A worldwide movement to put us onto a digital monetary system? Pick a cheesy novel. We all still have to make it through the day.

    You happen to be in the thick of it right now and that sucks for you but that could be any of us. And who knows what's next. The kicked can is still in play. I don't know anyone who knows for certain how this is going to play out. And not knowing is scary, that's for sure.

    risk-board-game.jpg
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Jun 18, 2012 5:42 AM GMT
    venue35 said"GERMANY" has pocketed over 200 billion from my country's "BAIL OUT".
    I will open a thread on this "TOPIC" soon cause there is alot going on that people don't know about. The economy here is a mess yes. The government is out of funds from all the thieving over the years and the tax evasion that goes on in my country is a HUGE problem. In the States if you don't pay your taxes the IRS will always find you...over here nobody gets punished for things like that. There are just so many details and little things that have been going on for so many years that sooner or later the bubble was gonna burst.
    It's almost exactly the same with the Wallstreet scandal. Some people just wanna live TOO LARGE. There is a scene in the new Batman movie when catwoman whispers in Bruce Wayne's ear : There's a storm coming Mr Wayne and you and your friends are gonna wonder how you could live so large for so long and leave so little for the rest of us." I think that was inspired by the wall street scandal and what is happening in the world right now.
    Greece is being blackmailed by the IMF and by Germany. They tell us this :
    "If you leave the eurozone your country will go bankrupt (it already is in a sense) the drachma will be incredibly devalued and you will live like peasants forever. There is no way that the european union didn't know about the many problems we already had. A weak economy,huge tax evasion problems and enormous problems in the public sector. Now Spain, Italy, Portugal and Ireland are each starting to receive huge "BAIL OUTS". The IMF is just one huge bank trying to get rich with their enormous interest rates. And don't get me started on Strauss Kahn who as head of the IMF was so set up it was like out of a shitty movie.WHY? I don't think people are told the truth anymore about anything. What we read and what we hear are fabrications.


    Thanks for giving the real story.

    Now whats your opinion on some on RJ who think Greece's problems are due to years of FASCISM?

    Yes some or maybe 1 person on RJ believes that Greece is the way it is because of its previous governments being Fascist?. In other words this person equates anything not Socialist , to Fascism.

    I do not believe this because I have relatives currently living in Greece. And the idea when presented is just a joke.

    We both know there are some individual issue Greece has, and the nuance is lost unless you are greek yourself. It would take a few hours to explain the ways Greece/ Greeks handle things.

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    Jun 18, 2012 1:44 PM GMT
    kke2.jpg

    What the KKE (Greek Communist Party) proposes is the total withdrawal of Greece from the European Union and a return to the Drachma. I am surprised none of the other parties are talking about this.

    To borrow a phrase used by the British Chancellor of the Exchequer (Minister of Finance); Geoff Howe, in the early 1980's, when he drew up a far reaching and very radical budget in 1981 to rescue the United Kingdom form almost total financial ruin:


    Geoffrey HoweTHERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE.
  • funkymonkey

    Posts: 194

    Jun 18, 2012 1:59 PM GMT
    venue35 said
    funkymonkey saidkind of annoying, i was hoping for a greek euro exit (i fancy a cheap greek holiday - post euro).
    but the again no one even knows if it will ever be possible to kick greece out.
    don't be an idiot your country is up shit creek as well



    I'm not being an idiot, many people are talking about letting/ forcing greece leave the euro. Ireland is not Greece (no offense but you guys fucked yourselves up beyond belief), ireland is different in that we never cooked our books or ran large deficits, the only reason we are in a bailout is because we were forced by the EU to bail out our bust banks which in turn bankrupted the country. in essence we in ireland are bailing out european banks who gambled on property bubbles, paying money to foreign banks that we never borrowed in the first place.

  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Jun 18, 2012 2:16 PM GMT
    venue35 saidI don't think Greece has these problems because of Fascism...no. I think it's because of all the corruption and nobody paying their taxes. I've been living here since 1988. Greece hasn't had a fascist government since the 70's
    I'll give you one example. The doctors here don't pay their taxes. When you go to say a dermatologist he or she will say it will cost you 100 euros with a receipt or 75 without. If you go to a hospital to get an operation wether you have healthcare or not you are expected to give an envelope "under the table" with money inside for the doctor even though he is being paid. I did a small operation and i didn't do this and after the operation the doctor just ignored me and never told me what medicine i needed cause he was angry.
    Then you have the thousands and thousand of people who have been given jobs because of the connections they had...that's how the government gets so many votes and that's how the pasok party stayed in government for so many years. Everybody gets payed off here everybody. They banned smoking in public places last year...everyone is smoking in public everywhere. If a government can't even ban smoking successfully well...you get my point. The justice system just doesn't work here. The rich have gotten rich from not paying their taxes and no one is brought to justice.
    Billions and billions of stolen greek government funds are in various bank accounts in Switzerland while the government doesn't have money to pay pensions... The whole system is a joke. Serious changes need to be made or else.



    Thank you. Ill save this response.

    And we both know there is a degree of "Greek Culture" that supports this kind of economy.

    IMHO its a result of decades under the Ottoman empire when Greeks rebelled against there Muslim masters. The residual cultural effect remains today. The non muslims were taxed in excess under the Dimi system.

    Armenians have a similar experience and have a similar attitude about taxes and paying the government.

    When greeks like my Grandparents came to America and Australia , Canada things changed. They had a different attitude and for the most part are happy to pay taxes.
  • funkymonkey

    Posts: 194

    Jun 18, 2012 8:48 PM GMT
    venue35 said
    funkymonkey said
    venue35 said
    funkymonkey saidkind of annoying, i was hoping for a greek euro exit (i fancy a cheap greek holiday - post euro).
    but the again no one even knows if it will ever be possible to kick greece out.
    don't be an idiot your country is up shit creek as well



    I'm not being an idiot, many people are talking about letting/ forcing greece leave the euro. Ireland is not Greece (no offense but you guys fucked yourselves up beyond belief), ireland is different in that we never cooked our books or ran large deficits, the only reason we are in a bailout is because we were forced by the EU to bail out our bust banks which in turn bankrupted the country. in essence we in ireland are bailing out european banks who gambled on property bubbles, paying money to foreign banks that we never borrowed in the first place.

    An idiot is exactly what you were when you posted the first message. You were being a smart ass and you were rude. Ireland has huge economic problems. So maybe this summer you can have your cheap holiday in...Ireland. We don't need the British and the Irish coming here every summer getting drunk as hell and having sex in the streets and causing all sorts of nastiness Youtube it if you dont believe me. Why are the gays always so much more well behaved?


    haha, i don't need to google it, i've done it, Mykonos baby! you should be proud that we love your country so much (but we may love it even more with the drachma).
  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Jun 18, 2012 9:58 PM GMT
    I sure can't say the Greeks are inspiring much confidence in anyone these days. Greece would be better off creating a flat tax system with a 15% rate and enforcning it for once in Greek history.

    I would not bet Europe's (Germany's) pocketbook is going to be open forever, bur we have had ample time to prepare for the consequences.