House Panel recommends Attorney General Eric Holder be held in contempt over scandal linked to over 200 deaths

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    Jun 21, 2012 12:22 AM GMT
    Eric Holder has refused to answer the question of who the officials were who were responsible for this operation and what the rationale was for proceeding with this botched plan that has also significantly harmed US-Mexico relations. Operation Fast and Furious was a project initiated by the ATF that allowed thousands of weapons to be sold to known and dangerous criminals.

    The Obama Administration has now claimed executive privilege over the documents in a presumed attempt at minimizing political fall out.

    As of 2011, the Obama Administration's Operation Fast and Furious has been linked to over 200 murders including one of an ATF agent with Mexican authorities having been excluded from being told about the operation.



    It's both shocking and repulsive that there remain those who don't believe that the Obama Administration should come clean over this incident.

    More here -
    http://www.amazon.com/Fast-Furious-Bloodiest-Shameless-Cover-Up/dp/1596983213
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    Jun 21, 2012 12:23 AM GMT
    Already posted dipshit.icon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gif Are you that lazy?
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    Jun 21, 2012 12:28 AM GMT
    Not surprisingly there are many within the law enforcement community who believe that Eric Holder should resign.

    Also related here:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2457576/
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    Jun 21, 2012 12:29 AM GMT
    riddler78 saidEric Holder has refused to answer the question of who the officials were who were responsible for this operation and what the rationale was for proceeding with this botched plan that has also significantly harmed US-Mexico relations. Operation Fast and Furious was a project initiated by the ATF that allowed thousands of weapons to be sold to known and dangerous criminals.

    The Obama Administration has now claimed executive privilege over the documents in a presumed attempt at minimizing political fall out.

    As of 2011, the Obama Administration's Operation Fast and Furious has been linked to over 200 murders including one of an ATF agent with Mexican authorities having been excluded from being told about the operation.



    It's both shocking and repulsive that there remain those who don't believe that the Obama Administration should come clean over this incident.

    More here -
    http://www.amazon.com/Fast-Furious-Bloodiest-Shameless-Cover-Up/dp/1596983213

    I think things are going to come to a head with that guy.
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    Jun 21, 2012 12:32 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    riddler78 saidEric Holder has refused to answer the question of who the officials were who were responsible for this operation and what the rationale was for proceeding with this botched plan that has also significantly harmed US-Mexico relations. Operation Fast and Furious was a project initiated by the ATF that allowed thousands of weapons to be sold to known and dangerous criminals.

    The Obama Administration has now claimed executive privilege over the documents in a presumed attempt at minimizing political fall out.

    As of 2011, the Obama Administration's Operation Fast and Furious has been linked to over 200 murders including one of an ATF agent with Mexican authorities having been excluded from being told about the operation.



    It's both shocking and repulsive that there remain those who don't believe that the Obama Administration should come clean over this incident.

    More here -
    http://www.amazon.com/Fast-Furious-Bloodiest-Shameless-Cover-Up/dp/1596983213

    I think things are going to come to a head with that guy.


    It's an issue that has been remarkably poorly covered by the media leading to the ridiculous comments by Pelosi and her acolytes here.
  • jock_1

    Posts: 1492

    Jun 21, 2012 12:33 AM GMT
    The death of a border agent is on his hands. What did Obama know? Funny how he uses executive privledge for the first time during an election year. I was wondering when this scandle would break
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    Jun 21, 2012 12:36 AM GMT
    Ridiculous "show trial' and a desperate attempt to create a "scandal" for Obama during an election year.

    Thankfully, the American public couldn't care less. (Not about death of border agent but about Issa's political machinations.)
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    Jun 21, 2012 12:37 AM GMT
    jock_1 saidThe death of a border agent is on his hands. What did Obama know? Funny how he uses executive privledge for the first time during an election year. I was wondering when this scandle would break


    It's absurd that the media has largely ignored the scandal despite the hundreds of deaths - it's a scandal where there's actual blood and an attempted coverup but even the liberals here seem so casually dismissive and disinterested in what's happened.

    You have to be deeply partisan not to believe that this is a serious scandal.
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    Jun 21, 2012 12:38 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    jock_1 saidThe death of a border agent is on his hands. What did Obama know? Funny how he uses executive privledge for the first time during an election year. I was wondering when this scandle would break


    It's absurd that the media has largely ignored the scandal despite the hundreds of deaths - it's a scandal where there's actual blood and an attempted coverup but even the liberals here seem so casually dismissive and disinterested in what's happened.

    You have to be deeply partisan not to believe that this is a serious scandal.


    Oh, it's a serious scandal brought about by Bush-appointees not Holder or the Obama Admin.

    That you are completely intellectually bankrupt doesn't mean everyone else is.
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    Jun 21, 2012 12:40 AM GMT
    Do you also believe former President George W. Bush and former Vice President Dick Cheney should be brought to justice for the deaths of many Americans soldiers?

    Or what about the former V.P.s connections to companies that benefited in our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan?

    I'm all for Obama being brought to justice over his role in this particular disaster you speak of, but not alone. If this President is on the line for it, so should the former adminstration.
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    Jun 21, 2012 1:02 AM GMT
    ConfederateGhost saidDo you also believe former President George W. Bush and former Vice President Dick Cheney should be brought to justice for the deaths of many Americans soldiers?

    Or what about the former V.P.s connections to companies that benefited in our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan?

    I'm all for Obama being brought to justice over his role in this particular disaster you speak of, but not alone. If this President is on the line for it, so should the former adminstration.


    Feel free to make the argument of how the two are even comparable - especially please make the argument of how the former VP benefited from the wars.
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1981

    Jun 21, 2012 1:05 AM GMT
    A party-line vote, supported only by Republicans. Another embarrassment from the GOP.
    Another anti-Obama stunt by the Republicans to distract attention from their complete lack of action or ideas on the economy.
    I guess it's easier to bash gays and invent scandals.
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    Jun 21, 2012 1:09 AM GMT
    KissTheSky saidA party-line vote, supported only by Republicans. Another embarrassment from the GOP.
    Another anti-Obama stunt by the Republicans to distract attention from their complete lack of action or ideas on the economy.
    I guess it's easier to bash gays and invent scandals.


    This scandal has been several years in the making. In what way was it invented? If the Obama Administration truly believed that this wasn't an issue it could have been resolved long ago by the release of documents. Do a search for "Operation Fast and Furious" - and also "Wide Receiver" for kicks (and why the Bush Administration's operation is not remotely comparable).

    Guns have been linked to an upsurge in gun violence according to ATF agents who had misgivings of the operation and it's been linked to over 200 deaths including an ATF agent.

    Under what scenario has this been "invented"?
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    Jun 21, 2012 1:09 AM GMT
    This discussion has already been had numerous times. Including Cheney's connection to BlackWater. It's not my fault you choose to forget pertinent information.

    You are claiming Obama is guilty of the deaths of 100's. Yet you say nothing about what the Bush administration did to our country. I say our country but in a discussion between you and I...this is my country.


    riddler78 said
    ConfederateGhost saidDo you also believe former President George W. Bush and former Vice President Dick Cheney should be brought to justice for the deaths of many Americans soldiers?

    Or what about the former V.P.s connections to companies that benefited in our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan?

    I'm all for Obama being brought to justice over his role in this particular disaster you speak of, but not alone. If this President is on the line for it, so should the former adminstration.


    Feel free to make the argument of how the two are even comparable - especially please make the argument of how the former VP benefited from the wars.
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    Jun 21, 2012 1:12 AM GMT
    ConfederateGhost saidThis discussion has already been had numerous times. Including Cheney's connection to BlackWater. It's not my fault you choose to forget pertinent information.

    You are claiming Obama is guilty of the deaths of 100's. Yet you say nothing about what the Bush administration did to our country. I say our country but in a discussion between you and I...this is my country.


    riddler78 said
    ConfederateGhost saidDo you also believe former President George W. Bush and former Vice President Dick Cheney should be brought to justice for the deaths of many Americans soldiers?

    Or what about the former V.P.s connections to companies that benefited in our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan?

    I'm all for Obama being brought to justice over his role in this particular disaster you speak of, but not alone. If this President is on the line for it, so should the former adminstration.


    Feel free to make the argument of how the two are even comparable - especially please make the argument of how the former VP benefited from the wars.


    I remember quite clearly how a number of issues with respect to Blackwater and Halliburton and their links to Cheney were quite easily debunked. It's not my fault you've chosen not to remember these pertinent facts.

    I get that you think that it's your country even though you've been played like a pawn, but you do realize that most of those deaths were Mexicans? That makes it ok? When it comes to Iraq, the reasons given for war which Congress voted for didn't only include WMDs - but how quickly you've forgotten this or the deaths under Hussein.
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    Jun 21, 2012 1:15 AM GMT
    I think you are trying to wade into foreign policy, something of which you obviously have no clue. And as I recall, you didn't debunk shit. Just chased the conversation in a pointless direction.

    And seeing as how you choose not to read everything, I'll repeat an earlier stance. I'm all for the Obama admin. being investigated, as long as we investigate the former admin as well.

    When Colon Powell, the man who propagated this war for Bush, turns his back on the false evidence...there's not much more to discuss.


    riddler78 said
    ConfederateGhost saidThis discussion has already been had numerous times. Including Cheney's connection to BlackWater. It's not my fault you choose to forget pertinent information.

    You are claiming Obama is guilty of the deaths of 100's. Yet you say nothing about what the Bush administration did to our country. I say our country but in a discussion between you and I...this is my country.


    riddler78 said
    ConfederateGhost saidDo you also believe former President George W. Bush and former Vice President Dick Cheney should be brought to justice for the deaths of many Americans soldiers?

    Or what about the former V.P.s connections to companies that benefited in our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan?

    I'm all for Obama being brought to justice over his role in this particular disaster you speak of, but not alone. If this President is on the line for it, so should the former adminstration.


    Feel free to make the argument of how the two are even comparable - especially please make the argument of how the former VP benefited from the wars.


    I remember quite clearly how a number of issues with respect to Blackwater and Halliburton and their links to Cheney were quite easily debunked. It's not my fault you've chosen not to remember these pertinent facts.

    I get that you think that it's your country even though you've been played like a pawn, but you do realize that most of those deaths were Mexicans? That makes it ok? When it comes to Iraq, the reasons given for war which Congress voted for didn't only include WMDs - but how quickly you've forgotten this or the deaths under Hussein.
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    Jun 21, 2012 1:17 AM GMT
    ConfederateGhost saidI think you are trying to wade into foreign policy, something of which you obviously have no clue. And as I recall, you didn't debunk shit. Just chased the conversation in a pointless direction.

    Thats all it does.. and it thinks its smart .. LMAO
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    Jun 21, 2012 1:18 AM GMT
    ConfederateGhost saidI think you are trying to wade into foreign policy, something of which you obviously have no clue. And as I recall, you didn't debunk shit. Just chased the conversation in a pointless direction.

    And seeing as how you choose not to read everything, I'll repeat an earlier stance. I'm all for the Obama admin. being investigated, as long as we investigate the former admin as well.

    When Colon Powell, the man who propagated this war for Bush, turns his back on the false evidence...there's not much more to discuss.


    riddler78 said
    ConfederateGhost saidThis discussion has already been had numerous times. Including Cheney's connection to BlackWater. It's not my fault you choose to forget pertinent information.

    You are claiming Obama is guilty of the deaths of 100's. Yet you say nothing about what the Bush administration did to our country. I say our country but in a discussion between you and I...this is my country.


    riddler78 said
    ConfederateGhost saidDo you also believe former President George W. Bush and former Vice President Dick Cheney should be brought to justice for the deaths of many Americans soldiers?

    Or what about the former V.P.s connections to companies that benefited in our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan?

    I'm all for Obama being brought to justice over his role in this particular disaster you speak of, but not alone. If this President is on the line for it, so should the former adminstration.


    Feel free to make the argument of how the two are even comparable - especially please make the argument of how the former VP benefited from the wars.


    I remember quite clearly how a number of issues with respect to Blackwater and Halliburton and their links to Cheney were quite easily debunked. It's not my fault you've chosen not to remember these pertinent facts.

    I get that you think that it's your country even though you've been played like a pawn, but you do realize that most of those deaths were Mexicans? That makes it ok? When it comes to Iraq, the reasons given for war which Congress voted for didn't only include WMDs - but how quickly you've forgotten this or the deaths under Hussein.


    I know apparently more than you. I'll repeat my stance - that they're not even remotely comparable - and the previous administration has been repeatedly investigated unless you weren't paying attention. You can't even spell Colin Powell's name right - who wasn't the only one who offered the case for war - that was just his case before the security council and the UN that is largely populated by despots and dictators (democracies count as a substantial minority at the UN or did you even know that?). The arguments made to Congress were materially different.
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    Jun 21, 2012 1:19 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    ConfederateGhost saidI think you are trying to wade into foreign policy, something of which you obviously have no clue. And as I recall, you didn't debunk shit. Just chased the conversation in a pointless direction.

    And seeing as how you choose not to read everything, I'll repeat an earlier stance. I'm all for the Obama admin. being investigated, as long as we investigate the former admin as well.

    When Colon Powell, the man who propagated this war for Bush, turns his back on the false evidence...there's not much more to discuss.


    riddler78 said
    ConfederateGhost saidThis discussion has already been had numerous times. Including Cheney's connection to BlackWater. It's not my fault you choose to forget pertinent information.

    You are claiming Obama is guilty of the deaths of 100's. Yet you say nothing about what the Bush administration did to our country. I say our country but in a discussion between you and I...this is my country.


    riddler78 said
    ConfederateGhost saidDo you also believe former President George W. Bush and former Vice President Dick Cheney should be brought to justice for the deaths of many Americans soldiers?

    Or what about the former V.P.s connections to companies that benefited in our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan?

    I'm all for Obama being brought to justice over his role in this particular disaster you speak of, but not alone. If this President is on the line for it, so should the former adminstration.


    Feel free to make the argument of how the two are even comparable - especially please make the argument of how the former VP benefited from the wars.


    I remember quite clearly how a number of issues with respect to Blackwater and Halliburton and their links to Cheney were quite easily debunked. It's not my fault you've chosen not to remember these pertinent facts.

    I get that you think that it's your country even though you've been played like a pawn, but you do realize that most of those deaths were Mexicans? That makes it ok? When it comes to Iraq, the reasons given for war which Congress voted for didn't only include WMDs - but how quickly you've forgotten this or the deaths under Hussein.


    I know apparently more than you. I'll repeat my stance - that they're not even remotely comparable - and the previous administration has been repeatedly investigated unless you weren't paying attention. You can't even spell Colin Powell's name right - who wasn't the only one who offered the case for war - that was just his case before the security council and the UN that is largely populated by despots and dictators (democracies count as a substantial minority at the UN or did you even know that?). The arguments made to Congress were materially different.
    是什么问题?无球吗?
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Jun 21, 2012 1:20 AM GMT
    ConfederateGhost saidDo you also believe former President George W. Bush and former Vice President Dick Cheney should be brought to justice for the deaths of many Americans soldiers?


    Absolutely not...and they won't be.
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    Jun 21, 2012 1:20 AM GMT
    To legal experts, it's putting Holder and now Obama in a corner. Holder testified under oath inconsistent times when he learned of F&F and also that the Pres was not informed.

    Proving perjury could be difficult when dealing with issues of timing because Holder could always claim he did not recall and there was no intent to perjure.

    Discussion with the President is a whole other matter. They will have to justify the Executive Privilege, which generally entails involvement by the President. So most likely, if they document that Executive Privilege is valid, then a case can be made that Holder perjured himself.

    Before Obama leaves office, he can give Holder a pardon, even a preemptive pardon, but it will further stain what little legacy he has at the moment. I think that's the route he will take, but you never know. He could throw Holder under the bus, and next year with a new Administration and DOJ, Holder could be prosecuted. He'd look real good in chains and a jumpsuit.
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    Jun 21, 2012 1:27 AM GMT
    So the DOJ now acknowledges they misled congress and retract an earlier claim about the Bush Administration and Operation Wide Receiver - again showing how Wide Receiver differs from the much larger and botched Fast and Furious operation.

    Related:
    http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/20/another-retraction-holder-withdraws-claim-that-bushs-attorney-general-knew-about-gunwalking/

    Instead of being able to facilitate evidence, though, according to Iowa Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley’s office, Holder and the DOJ have now retracted that statement.

    “This is the second time in nearly seven months that the Department has gotten its facts wrong about gunwalking,” Grassley said. “Attorney General Holder accused Attorney General Mukasey, without producing any evidence, of having been briefed on gunwalking in Wide Receiver. The case Attorney General Mukasey was briefed on, Hernandez, is fundamentally different from both Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious since it involved cooperation with the Mexican government. Attorney General Holder’s retraction should have included an apology to the former Attorney General.”

    In his original request for evidence that supported the statements, Grassley said if Holder could not back the claim, he owed Mukasey an apology. Holder did not include an apology in the retraction. It’s unclear if the attorney general will apologize to Mukasey for the now-retracted statement. Holder spokeswoman Tracy Schmaler wouldn’t answer when The Daily Caller asked her.

    “In his eagerness to blame the previous administration, Attorney General Holder got his facts wrong,” Grassley added. “And his tactic didn’t bring us any closer to understanding how a bad policy evolved and continued. Bad policy is bad policy, regardless of how many administrations carried it out. Ironically, the only document produced yesterday by the Department appears to show that senior officials in the Attorney General’s own Department were strategizing about how to keep gunwalking in both Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious under wraps.”

    The first time Holder’s DOJ withdrew a statement to congress because of its inaccuracy was when now-former Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich wrote to Sen. Grassley on Feb. 4, 2011, telling him that the DOJ and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives never allowed guns to walk. It wasn’t until several months later that Holder withdrew that false statement.

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    Jun 21, 2012 1:29 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    KissTheSky saidA party-line vote, supported only by Republicans. Another embarrassment from the GOP.
    Another anti-Obama stunt by the Republicans to distract attention from their complete lack of action or ideas on the economy.
    I guess it's easier to bash gays and invent scandals.


    This scandal has been several years in the making. In what way was it invented? If the Obama Administration truly believed that this wasn't an issue it could have been resolved long ago by the release of documents. Do a search for "Operation Fast and Furious" - and also "Wide Receiver" for kicks (and why the Bush Administration's operation is not remotely comparable).

    Guns have been linked to an upsurge in gun violence according to ATF agents who had misgivings of the operation and it's been linked to over 200 deaths including an ATF agent.

    Under what scenario has this been "invented"?


    "Invented" is the kind of word this little headless guy uses when he hasn't anything else to say. He accuses the party he doesn't like of inventing or making up scandals and problems they cause. A recent example was when I commented on the Oakland rioting and fires caused by some of the Occupy protestors. The same headless mal-content accused me of making up stories about the mess in Oakland. The next day brought coverage by bi-partisan media from every corner, with films and countless reports on the mess in Oakland. Poor guy. He tried his best.
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    Jun 21, 2012 1:44 AM GMT
    Could you change the title of this to "House Republican panel..." since that would be accurate?
    Kind of tired of these misleading titles. When only one side does something, then it's not a house panel, it's a political party doing it.
    Just so you know.
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1981

    Jun 21, 2012 1:51 AM GMT
    This pathetic stunt -- voted for by ONLY Republicans on the panel -- means the entire House of Representatives will waste time on this next week, rather than addressing urgent issues people care about.
    I seem to remember a certain party claiming they would "focus like a laser beam on the economy" if they were to gain control of the House.
    Apparently that laser beam fizzled.