What's with Americans marginalising themselves

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 21, 2012 1:50 AM GMT
    Your either Black, Hispanic, White, Asian, from the South, republican or democrat. What's the great need in your society to label everyone, and hold onto your beliefs, 'til your death, the pigeon hole you all put people into?

    Is it a rights thing?
    Is it the mix of church and state in your country?
    Is it because you are all secretly aware that the rest of the worlds population really don't like Americans and collectively you try and distract yourselves of that knowledge?

    What gives?

    Aren't you all just Americans? Why all the internalised hate in your country? Noticed it in all your media, not just here, is anyone in the US normal and unable to be pigeon holed with more than one label?

    What actually brings you all together as one?

    I'm really keen to understand so flame if you want, as that would be the expected response.


    and go...

  • TheBizMan

    Posts: 4091

    Jun 21, 2012 1:52 AM GMT
    I think you could have worded this a little better and avoided a potential flame war.

    Unless of course you meant to be inflammatory.
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    Jun 21, 2012 1:56 AM GMT
    TheBizMan saidI think you could have worded this a little better and avoided a potential flame war.

    Unless of course you meant to be inflammatory.


    who meicon_twisted.gificon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 21, 2012 1:57 AM GMT
    Because according to the US Census, we should categorize ourselves this, this, and that. Apparently the government feels these are all the labels we need.

    Sure, I was born a Spaniard, but I gave up my Spanish citizenship at 18 years of age. My ancestors came from Mexico, Spain, and Ireland, but that was generations ago. American suits me just fine.
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    Jun 21, 2012 1:59 AM GMT
    Your intent is obviously to be inflammatory.
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    Jun 21, 2012 1:59 AM GMT
    What actually brings us all together as one?

    Defeating the invading aliens from space.

    U-S-A..U-S-A..U-S-A..U-S-A!

    s1CKv.jpg

    icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jun 21, 2012 2:00 AM GMT
    xrichx saidWhat actually brings us all together as one?

    Defeating the invading aliens from space.

    U-S-A..U-S-A..U-S-A..U-S-A!

    s1CKv.jpg

    icon_biggrin.gif


    Or beating the Russians and Chinese at the Olympics icon_cool.gif
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    Jun 21, 2012 2:06 AM GMT
    I think that considering America is made of many different nationalities, people tend to closely identify themselves based on their country of origin or ancestry. However, whenever I am outside of the country I always identify myself as American, no matter what stereotypes might come with it.
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    Jun 21, 2012 2:12 AM GMT
    xrichx saidWhat actually brings us all together as one?

    Defeating the invading aliens from space.

    U-S-A..U-S-A..U-S-A..U-S-A!

    s1CKv.jpg

    icon_biggrin.gif


    Yay thats more like it.

    I was wondering if I attacked you all if you'd band together as One Nation under God... is that how its goes?icon_cool.gif
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    Jun 21, 2012 2:15 AM GMT
    pocketnico said
    Or beating the Russians and Chinese at the Olympics icon_cool.gif
    Rocky IV and Forrest Gump?

    icon_lol.gif
  • Klaatu

    Posts: 8

    Jun 21, 2012 3:03 AM GMT
    northoz saidYour either Black, Hispanic, White, Asian, from the South, republican or democrat. What's the great need in your society to label everyone, and hold onto your beliefs, 'til your death, the pigeon hole you all put people into?



    Doesn't this happen everywhere?
    My friends from other countries have told me that racism is everywhere. The US didn't invent it.
  • Import

    Posts: 7190

    Jun 21, 2012 3:21 AM GMT
    Is the US not a representation of people from all over the world?
    What does "american" even mean? Most of us had no choice in living here, it was just by chance......because we were born here. Others have come from all over the planet to live here. .

    That's it. We represent what people are. We represent humanity, because everyone from everywhere is here.... in the US



    so ur questions should be..... "why do people feel the need to label others?" or something like that.

    has nothing to do with being "american" it's just that's what people do....is label eachother.
    you're not gonna like stop people from labeling by starting this thread and like everyone has some sort of epiphany because it took an outsider from nowehere to point out that people in a particular country are so obsessed with labels.

    youre so profound. dude. u should write a book
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 21, 2012 3:39 AM GMT
    icon_rolleyes.gif

    This would be an interesting discussion if it weren't so inflammatory.

    Everyone divides themselves into groups. In isn't an American phenomenon.
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    Jun 21, 2012 3:42 AM GMT
    DudeInNOVA saidicon_rolleyes.gif

    This would be an interesting discussion if it weren't so inflammatory.

    Everyone divides themselves into groups. In isn't an American phenomenon.


    I know just trying to get a rise out of all of you, its common(from an outsiders POV) to see that the US argues amongst themselves over the most ridiculous things, Im trying to see if you can all agree on anything positive about your diversity.
    @ Import thanks i try....icon_twisted.gif
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    Jun 21, 2012 3:44 AM GMT
    xrichx saidWhat actually brings us all together as one?

    Defeating the invading aliens from space.

    U-S-A..U-S-A..U-S-A..U-S-A!
    The aliens are just as much a product of nature and evolution as we are.

    LEAVE THE ALIENS ALONE!

    *pouts*

    leave-britney-alone.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CA
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Jun 21, 2012 3:46 AM GMT
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    Jun 21, 2012 3:51 AM GMT
    It's the pointless cultural desire for "CONTROL" that leads people to marginalize at their own expense. If you've ever seen, "Instinct" you may come understand that Control is just a figment of your imagination, and even under guise of control, people are preppy animalistic. Business is a "shark tank", they say. The wealthy projectively describe lower class men as cattle. These aren't just metaphors, they're the mind piercing through the vale of Perspective to Reality as it remains, underneath all our cultures and mob mentalities.

    We take from others, on paper/in our minds; cause those who "benefit" from it believe they actually GAIN from it. When in reality, taking from another, only lessens what you too can hope to have, without spilling more blood.

    The failing of humanity isn't their inherent nature to kill or be killed. No, that is necessary when protecting what matters most to you, your loved ones and your country men. Humanities failing on the whole, is their lack of DESIRE to RISE ABOVE their INSTINCTS, and give when other desire to, or do, take.

    IMHO*
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    Jun 21, 2012 7:38 AM GMT
    Obviously It's fine to be inflammatory to other smaller or less dominant countries - but how dare we reciprocate! The amount of US citizens who have no real clue about places outside their borders never ceases to amaze me - very insular it seems if I were to dare generalise.
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    Jun 21, 2012 8:27 AM GMT
    Interesting topic, Northoz.

    All I'll say is be cautious of your generalizations of the American people. Same goes to you, ozgreenguy.

    What happens in this country is truly no different than what happens in other countries. It may not occur to the same degree, but that's also questionable. The US gets the most attention in the media because it's seen in a certain light compared to any other country. Has the US asserted itself into this role of self-importance? In many ways, yes. But in many ways it has come naturally, for many reasons that I do not have time or energy right now to expound upon.

    There are millions and millions of Americans who are well-educated, proud, fair, decent, generous, and so on. This is truly a great country. I've lived on the east coast and on the west coast, in the north and the south, and have to honestly say that there is so much good going on in this country that you will never read in print or see on the internet. And it's sad, actually. Media stories tend to be sensationalized for the sake of being sensational.

    It burns me to see when people from other countries make, well, ignorant generalizations without truly knowing or experiencing the reality. I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just being real.

    Let's use our own beloved Real Jock forums for example. If an outsider came in here and read through some of the forums, they would think that all gay men were racist, whiners, assholes, horny, and petty. Those are the threads/posts that get the most action and create the threads with the highest post counts (for the most part - there are definite exceptions). However, what they will miss are the thousands of other members who do not take part in the forums or in those flame wars. I mean, there are over 300k members here, and how many do we see in the most visible section of the site? Not even 1% of them on a consistent basis. in many ways, that same correlation can be made for what you see or read in the media. It only represents a very small part of the many great things that do, in fact, occur in this country. Is there labeling? Yes. But you only read about the stories where the labeling has caused issues. You don't read about the stories where labels were not an issue, which counts in the millions on a daily basis. The story of the Trayvon Martin case is blowing up the media, but you don't read about the black and white guy who are reading the stories together, over lunch and a beer, with no issues.

    Don't get me wrong. We are far from perfect.

    Interestingly, and I'm not trying to pour gas on this flame, but I have, personally, found that the RJ members with the most critical comments about the US seem to come from Oz. I'm not sure why that is, but it's actually an observation I made a while back. Maybe someone can educate me on the culture of Oz and why it would appear to be the polar opposite of the culture of the US.
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    Jun 21, 2012 8:41 AM GMT
    ECnAZ said
    There are millions and millions of Americans who are well-educated, proud, fair, decent, generous, and so on. This is truly a great country. .................................

    It burns me to see when people from other countries make, well, ignorant generalizations without truly knowing or experiencing the reality. I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just being real................................

    Let's use our own beloved Real Jock forums for example. If an outsider came in here and read through some of the forums, they would think that all gay men were racist, whiners, assholes, horny, and petty. Those are the threads/posts that get the most action and create the threads with the highest post counts (for the most part - there are definite exceptions).........................


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    Jun 21, 2012 8:50 AM GMT
    ECnAZ said
    It burns me to see when people from other countries make, well, ignorant generalizations without truly knowing or experiencing the reality.


    This is what we often observe from Americans - I cant count how many Aussies I know have been asked by Americans when visting the land of the free what language we speak here!

    We are very good here at having a laugh at ourselves - but that is not my experience of Americans who are fine to dish out criticism but can't handle it being returned (of course I am generalising - but there are many on here who have generalised things like Aussies are racist because of the sensationalist media coverage you mentioned).
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    Jun 21, 2012 9:15 AM GMT
    ozgreenguy said
    ECnAZ said
    It burns me to see when people from other countries make, well, ignorant generalizations without truly knowing or experiencing the reality.


    This is what we often observe from Americans - I cant count how many Aussies I know have been asked by Americans when visting the land of the free what language we speak here!

    We are very good here at having a laugh at ourselves - but that is not my experience of Americans who are fine to dish out criticism but can't handle it being returned (of course I am generalising - but there are many on here who have generalised things like Aussies are racist because of the sensationalist media coverage you mentioned).


    And you just prove my point. You're basing your generalizations on American tourists (and a very, very, small portion of those tourists) that come from a country of 300million strong. Seriously? Outside of the fact that, in the example you used, you're basing your comment on a lack of linguistic knowledge of your country.

    Per my comment above about my observation that most of the critiques seem to come from people from Oz (on this site). Do you think I'm sitting here thinking that all people from Oz are critical of the US or that they all hate the US? No. I'm smarter than that.
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    Jun 21, 2012 9:26 AM GMT
    ECnAZ saidAnd you just prove my point. You're basing your generalizations on American tourists (and a very, very, small portion of those tourists) that come from a country of 300million strong. Seriously? Outside of the fact that, in the example you used, you're basing your comment on a lack of linguistic knowledge of your country.

    Per my comment above about my observation that most of the critiques seem to come from people from Oz (on this site). Do you think I'm sitting here thinking that all people from Oz are critical of the US or that they all hate the US? No. I'm smarter than that.


    I have no doubt you are quite intelligent and after reading your posts on the forums I would argue against anyone that disagreed. However you also proved my point that Americans cannot accept any sort of criticism at all (whether it is directed at the majority or a minority).

    My reference to tourists was actually Aussie tourists in the USA.
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    Jun 21, 2012 9:29 AM GMT
    pocketnico said
    xrichx saidWhat actually brings us all together as one?

    Defeating the invading aliens from space.

    U-S-A..U-S-A..U-S-A..U-S-A!

    s1CKv.jpg

    icon_biggrin.gif


    Or beating the Russians and Chinese at the Olympics icon_cool.gif


    That one Definitely that one.
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    Jun 21, 2012 10:09 AM GMT
    Well I think the difference is that we have an open and public debate about things that happen that are racist, homophobic, sexist, etc. We're a pretty open people, and we engage in a huge amount of self-criticism. Americans are very quick to point out their own flaws, and to adopt all sorts of trends and cultural detritus from other areas. It's a virtue of this country, despite its many flaws.

    Now let's look at your home country, OP. Want to talk about aboriginal rights? Because I think that could be a very ugly, defensive conversation. I mean that progress didn't really occur until the late 60s, and you didn't have an aboriginal legislator in the House of Representatives until *2010*. And the progress you made in the 1960s? Guess why that was (hint: the US was a beacon of tolerance and change to many countries, including yours).

    But it isn't just Australia. Let's talk about persecution of ethnic Chinese, to this day, in Malaysia. That's not really a highly referenced topic. Or of rising antisemitism in Europe, which nobody seems to discuss seriously until a Le Pen begins to possibly become elected to the highest office in France. How about restrictions on being able to wear Islamic religious garb in European countries, or the rise of Geert Wilders? Maybe we can talk about how homophobic Eastern Europe can be? Greece currently has significant representation from a neo-Nazi party in its parliament for Chrissakes. Do you want to discuss the entire Middle East and women, or gays for that matter? I mean give me a break.

    You're seriously suggesting the US has higher levels of internal hatred than most other nations? Get a grip. We don't have legitimate, participating Nazi parties, we don't legislate against anyone's religion, and we lead the way on equal rights for countries like yours. So spare me your lectures.