Integrating Homsexuality with Christianity

  • kbaketm

    Posts: 36

    Jun 23, 2012 10:45 PM GMT
    I grew up in a very conservative Christian household, where masturbation, pre-marital sex, and homosexuality are considered sinful. It has taken me probably about 8-9 years to be able to maybe 75% deal with identifying as a gay Christian. I feel that gay Christians get backlashing from both Christians and gays. Gays feel like all Christians are bigots and religion is meaningless, and Christians feel as if homosexuality was a temptation developed by the devil and will cause man to go to hell.

    I think about all of the gay youth suicides that have happened over the past years and I am thankful that I never had the urge to do that. My personal motivation was that I knew that God had plans for my life and that my family and friends would be devastated if I ever were to take my own life. I feel that my faith that kept me on this earth, but I have had a great deal of stress and anxiety added on for the past 10 years. I have had to live a double life: open to my friends in college, but closeted to my family and friends from back home. Most of my friends and family are very conservative so coming out to them hasn't really been on my list of priorities. I will be coming out to them here within the next couple of months, but I am unsure of what the response will be. I know they'll mention that I'm living in sin, which I can handle them saying that, but I just hope that they don't overreact and do anything rash.

    Also, my boyfriend has been absolutely amazing in helping me come to terms with my homosexuality and still wanting to be a Christian. I have made huge leaps in being comfortable in my own skin, but there are still those moments of doubt that I have. Am I going to hell? Is there even any possibility that God might want me to change? This may sound kind of silly, but I always said that if God left all of the homosexuals on earth when the rapture takes place, that I would know the answer to whether or not he approves of homosexuality.

    Anyway, my reason for posting this is just to ask if there are any gay Christians on here that have had to deal with those moments of doubt. I always feel like they're going to be there... probably for the rest of my life. I plan on starting counseling here soon, and I'm praying that I can fully come to terms with being a gay Christian. However, are there any other ways outside of some sort of counseling and accountability with others that anyone uses when feeling like God doesn't approve of who you are? I've started writing notes to myself to place around my apartment that just says encouraging messages like "Jesus loves you just the way you are" and "There is nothing wrong with being yourself".

    Thanks for your help! icon_smile.gif
  • Lanter

    Posts: 149

    Jun 23, 2012 11:40 PM GMT
    First off, welcome.
    I can't say that I personally am all that christian and I'm definitly not conservative, but I have a friend who was/is in this same situation. Its hard, but the whole process is very complex and there really is no true answer. I get your point about it being a double edged sword and hopefully someone who is more familiar with this can chime in. One thing I do know for sure is that anyone can be spiritual. When it comes to the issue of the afterlife, my theory is, why worry about something you can't control. I've spent a lot of time thinking about death and I don't think anyone has the right to use it as a way of threatening the way you live while your alive. Let me know if you ever want to chat about it. Good Luck.
  • kbaketm

    Posts: 36

    Jun 24, 2012 12:00 AM GMT
    Lanter saidFirst off, welcome.
    I can't say that I personally am all that christian and I'm definitly not conservative, but I have a friend who was/is in this same situation. Its hard, but the whole process is very complex and there really is no true answer. I get your point about it being a double edged sword and hopefully someone who is more familiar with this can chime in. One thing I do know for sure is that anyone can be spiritual. When it comes to the issue of the afterlife, my theory is, why worry about something you can't control. I've spent a lot of time thinking about death and I don't think anyone has the right to use it as a way of threatening the way you live while your alive. Let me know if you ever want to chat about it. Good Luck.


    Thanks Lanter. Even in the Bible, it mentions that one should not worry because it does no good for our soul. Thank you reminding me of that. I shouldn't let anyone threaten me with that. icon_smile.gif I appreciate your advice!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 24, 2012 12:59 AM GMT
    Yeah, I definitely understand at least part of your predicament. It's very hard to simultaneously identify as both Christian and gay, since they seem contradictory. It took me a good while to come to grips with it myself, and I still haven't fully reconciled the two (I still feel a little uncomfortable going to church, and moreso when I'm dating someone).
    My family never really stressed going to church too much when I was growing up, so I was at least spared from that, but they are all deeply religious and have personal relationships with God outside the church, which is how I handle it. Without a church and its pressures, it was definitely easier for me to deal with my sexuality (though still not easy).
    For me, things became really clear when I fell in love and realized that God couldn't possibly think something so beautiful was wrong, no matter who it was between.
    Sorry if my thoughts sound kinda scattered; I'm trying not to write a super-long essay. Feel free to message me if you wanna chat about this though!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 24, 2012 1:43 AM GMT
    After more than 20 years of being "out" my mom still tries to "pray the gay away."

    Some churches will eventually accept us. Most won't.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 24, 2012 1:57 AM GMT
    Doug here, and christian without effort or conflict. It wasn't always this way.

    I had to to understand what the bible was, not what religions told me it was.

    Here's a beginning for you; how the bible was written.



    The writers KNEW the earth was flat and had you declared otherwise would have likely declared you as being possessed by demons. There is no such thing as any mental illnesses, according to that book. No schizophrenia, no anxiety disorders, no clinical depression, no OCD. Nothing.

    Now let's go to the sin of Sodom, where all this crap over gay people began.

    Ezekiel 16:49
    " Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."
    http://bible.cc/ezekiel/16-49.htm


    I hope this helps, and I will try help however I can.

    warmly, Doug

    Remember the bible has beautiful passages of light and love, the essence of The Love......... and plenty of darkness too for those that require a stern implacable god, aloof and inscrutable, impatient of worthless man, waiting patiently for an unwary moment to strike him down in his sin.
    I chose the first, not the second.
  • kbaketm

    Posts: 36

    Jun 24, 2012 1:58 AM GMT
    geoant saidYeah, I definitely understand at least part of your predicament. It's very hard to simultaneously identify as both Christian and gay, since they seem contradictory. It took me a good while to come to grips with it myself, and I still haven't fully reconciled the two (I still feel a little uncomfortable going to church, and moreso when I'm dating someone).
    My family never really stressed going to church too much when I was growing up, so I was at least spared from that, but they are all deeply religious and have personal relationships with God outside the church, which is how I handle it. Without a church and its pressures, it was definitely easier for me to deal with my sexuality (though still not easy).
    For me, things became really clear when I fell in love and realized that God couldn't possibly think something so beautiful was wrong, no matter who it was between.
    Sorry if my thoughts sound kinda scattered; I'm trying not to write a super-long essay. Feel free to message me if you wanna chat about this though!


    Yeah, I'm starting to realize that too. It's been a long journey to get to where I'm at. I just hope that I can rid the doubt in my mind as much as I can so I can live happily!
  • kbaketm

    Posts: 36

    Jun 24, 2012 1:59 AM GMT
    /
    paulflexes saidAfter more than 20 years of being "out" my mom still tries to "pray the gay away."

    Some churches will eventually accept us. Most won't.


    I'm thinking my mom will end up being the same. Does she accept you as a gay man at all?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 24, 2012 3:33 AM GMT
    Your post is gutsy and deep.

    One of the coolest things you said is that your faith keeps you grounded. It's important to be a Christian first and a gay man second. We're all sinners and need answers to life's important questions. The get-out-of-Hell-free pardon that Christ obtained is important, especially if you want to be part of the Rapture. The rest is secondary.

    It's the people whose pride and carnality leave no room for God in their lives who lose context, hope, meaning, etc. and are at risk for self-destruction.

    Some Christians, like the dude in the video below, are never fully comfortable in the "gay lifestyle." Peace and grace to you.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 24, 2012 4:45 AM GMT
    OK I just read this from another poster, "We're all sinners.."

    Right. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Or it can be said none of us are perfect. The word sin is persecutory, and not encouraging, (inferring unworthiness of love) in its constant and consistent misuse. Save that word for murder or any other thing that goes against the edict to love one another as ourselves, and to love your Maker.



    When you love another man you are loving another as you yourself would want to be loved.
  • kbaketm

    Posts: 36

    Jun 24, 2012 1:22 PM GMT
    meninlove said Doug here, and christian without effort or conflict. It wasn't always this way.

    I had to to understand what the bible was, not what religions told me it was.

    Here's a beginning for you; how the bible was written.



    The writers KNEW the earth was flat and had you declared otherwise would have likely declared you as being possessed by demons. There is no such thing as any mental illnesses, according to that book. No schizophrenia, no anxiety disorders, no clinical depression, no OCD. Nothing.

    Now let's go to the sin of Sodom, where all this crap over gay people began.

    Ezekiel 16:49
    " Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."
    http://bible.cc/ezekiel/16-49.htm


    I hope this helps, and I will try help however I can.

    warmly, Doug

    Remember the bible has beautiful passages of light and love, the essence of The Love......... and plenty of darkness too for those that require a stern implacable god, aloof and inscrutable, impatient of worthless man, waiting patiently for an unwary moment to strike him down in his sin.
    I chose the first, not the second.


    Thanks for the info doug. I always try to remember above all, God is love, not always seeking judgment on everyone.
  • kbaketm

    Posts: 36

    Jun 24, 2012 1:24 PM GMT
    yourname2000 saiddraft_lens18353647module152470830photo_1

    2000 yo men also didn't think man could fly....traveling across a country took months....and no fresh bananas. I really don't know what insight you think they could possibly add to your modern life. You ask too much of a very old book.


    There are some very good lessons that the Bible teaches. I just think that part of it has been misconstrued to fit heteronormative society and beliefs.
  • kbaketm

    Posts: 36

    Jun 24, 2012 1:36 PM GMT
    jockfever saidYour post is gutsy and deep.

    One of the coolest things you said is that your faith keeps you grounded. It's important to be a Christian first and a gay man second. We're all sinners and need answers to life's important questions. The get-out-of-Hell-free pardon that Christ obtained is important, especially if you want to be part of the Rapture. The rest is secondary.

    It's the people whose pride and carnality leave no room for God in their lives who lose context, hope, meaning, etc. and are at risk for self-destruction.

    Some Christians, like the dude in the video below, are never fully comfortable in the "gay lifestyle." Peace and grace to you.



    Yeah, I know it's important to keep my priorities in line, but that is always going to be a work in progress.

    Thanks for the advice.
  • kbaketm

    Posts: 36

    Jun 24, 2012 1:37 PM GMT
    yourname2000 said^^^ This guy will just try to fuck up your head as much as his is fucked up. Tread carefully.


    Don't worry. I've experienced all of the ex-gay nonsense, and I'm not going down that road again.
  • kbaketm

    Posts: 36

    Jun 24, 2012 1:38 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    OK I just read this from another poster, "We're all sinners.."

    Right. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Or it can be said none of us are perfect. The word sin is persecutory, and not encouraging, (inferring unworthiness of love) in it's constant and consistent misuse. Save that word for murder or any other thing that goes against the edict to love one another as ourselves, and to love your Maker.



    When you love another man you are loving another as you yourself would want to be loved.


    Very true.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 24, 2012 1:54 PM GMT
    kbaketm said, 'There are some very good lessons that the Bible teaches.'

    Yes, there are. This one is my favourite ( although Paul had a lot of personal issues he peppered his writing with, this passage is unfettered by his prejudices) :

    1 Corinthians 13
    New International Version (NIV)
    13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

    4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5[b] It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
    6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

    8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

    13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.


    So always remember 5 when the religious start yapping about sin and god judging you left right and center. icon_wink.gif
  • kbaketm

    Posts: 36

    Jun 24, 2012 2:25 PM GMT
    meninlove saidkbaketm said, 'There are some very good lessons that the Bible teaches.'

    Yes, there are. This one is my favourite ( although Paul had a lot of personal issues he peppered his writing with, this passage is unfettered by his prejudices) :

    1 Corinthians 13
    New International Version (NIV)
    13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

    4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5[b] It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
    6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

    8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

    13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.


    So always remember 5 when the religious start yapping about sin and god judging you left right and center. icon_wink.gif


    Great verses! I agree Paul had some great insight, but in some areas, I feel like he got off track. icon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 24, 2012 2:30 PM GMT
    Paul had a lot of personal prejudices and axes to grind, so did they all (the writers). They often fought amongst themselves, and so did the scholars interpreting and translating works for the next thousand years. icon_wink.gif

    I occasionally wonder what some of those arguments would look like had they had the internet and a forum. Likely huge flame wars, lol.

    warmly,
    -Doug

  • kbaketm

    Posts: 36

    Jun 24, 2012 2:43 PM GMT
    meninlove said Paul had a lot of personal prejudices and axes to grind, so did they all (the writers). They often fought amongst themselves, and so did the scholars interpreting and translating works for the next thousand years. icon_wink.gif

    I occasionally wonder what some of those arguments would look like had they had the internet and a forum. Likely huge flame wars, lol.

    warmly,
    -Doug



    Haha! That would definitely be a sight to see!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 24, 2012 2:51 PM GMT
    Well, they tried their best to contain god in a book, much like trying to catch the wind in a bottle. icon_wink.gif

    Say, are you feeling a little better about yourself and your Maker, now that together we're taking the sting out of scripture?
  • kbaketm

    Posts: 36

    Jun 24, 2012 3:00 PM GMT
    meninlove said Well, they tried their best to contain god in a book, much like trying to catch the wind in a bottle. icon_wink.gif

    Say, are you feeling a little better about yourself and your Maker, now that together we're taking the sting out of scripture?


    Yeah. I generally feel better when I have discussions like these. It's when I see people from back home that post homophobic statements on Facebook that really get me down. This has helped a lot though!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 24, 2012 3:01 PM GMT


    This is not intended to be mocking or derisive; it humorously concentrates what Christ told us to do into its essence (please excuse the profanity in it).




    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSzQJma3MJb-2ZcScl1Gv3
  • kbaketm

    Posts: 36

    Jun 24, 2012 3:10 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    This is not intended to be mocking or derisive; it humorously concentrates what Christ told us to do into its essence (please excuse the profanity in it).




    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSzQJma3MJb-2ZcScl1Gv3


    Haha, yeah, I've seen that before. It's a shame that people are so inclined to decide to not show love toward one another because of who someone is.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 24, 2012 3:19 PM GMT


    Well, if you look back you've already seen one poster refer to being gay as a 'lifestyle'.

    Right. So then tall is a lifestyle, and so must skin colour be as well, lol.

    As you so very astutely observed in another topic, monogamy and open relationships are lifestyle choices. icon_wink.gif

    I think it important to consider that those homophobic people you know and see
    are not practicing Christ's Law. In fact I'd consider feeling sorry for them as what they are practicing is bigotry.

    ....I don't care for the term homophobic (which is fear) because they don't fear gays, they hate 'em. Homobigotry is a more apt term.

    Btw Bill says Hi.




  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 24, 2012 3:24 PM GMT
    oh ex gay stuff is so sad.... Really sad. watched the video and couldn´t help wondering how long he´ll keep it up before he starts cheating on his wife with another guy... If he´s gay, and not just bi, then repression won´t work for that long.

    To the OP... if you really want to be a christian then find a denomination that doesn´t hate you, DO NOT waste time trying to convert them, evolve them etc