older gays threatened that i dont define myself by gayness?

  • jellofellow

    Posts: 8

    Jun 24, 2012 4:09 AM GMT
    OK, so i had a weird experience this week.
    would up striking a conversation with some older guys who were in town for pride, and i mentioned i'd never been. they asked why, i replied "it's not my thing." they pressed, and i said something along the lines of 'i dont identify much with being gay, i mostly see myself as a regular dude who really likes to have sex with other dudes." i explained that i'd never experienced any kind of homophobia in my life, 'coming out' was a non-event, and said that i just don't see the need to self-ghettoize in west hollywood/dupont/etc (ok poor choice of words on my part).
    well these guys got really upset and really defensive, saying i was privileged, entitled, ignoring the contributions of past generations, etc. they seemed genuinely offended i don't see the need to be a loud and proud gay.
    what i don't get - wasn't that the whole point of the gay rights movement?? to be treated as regular human beings?? i understand the whole forming a unique culture/identity was about self-protection/preservation, but it's not the 1960's anymore! being a homo is a non-issue in pretty much every major city and probably the rest of the country within the next decade. why can't everyone just do what they wanna do, and define themselves however they wanna define themselves?? icon_confused.gif
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Jun 24, 2012 4:42 AM GMT
    To each his own ... pleanty of other are ... so if you're not ... no big deal ... maybe when you are their age you'll tell some guy the same icon_smile.gif
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    Jun 24, 2012 5:05 AM GMT
    jellofellow saidi'd never experienced any kind of homophobia in my life,


    Are you sure you've no homophobia in your life? Are you a US citizen? What do you suppose motivates this government to keep us from enjoying our human rights (protections against workplace and housing discrimination, marriage, adoption in some states, et al). Not homophobia? Do they treat us as second class citizens because they love us so much? And you are in Utah? So you have no gay Mormon friends with homophobic issues in their own famlies? Are their problems not your problem? Does the homophobia directed at our community not apply to you?

    And how about when we do finally get our rights, to be treated as 100% human being? Will you not benefit from that? So is it just easier for everyone else to do the work of supporting the cause for you? That's very convenient. Glad we could be of assistance.

    Your elders are not threatened by you. We are disappointed in you. Not for any lack of appreciation for the work done before you. But for the work to be done in your own life, even if that means just showing your support, which you refuse to do. Is that something you're really proud of?

    Pride, party of one.

    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance"~~Thomas Jefferson.
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    Jun 24, 2012 6:08 AM GMT
    Offended is not the same as threatened. I'm not threatened. But I am annoyed at the selfishness of attitudes like yours. The idea that there is no homophobia is just laughable. You will encounter it at some point.

    Don't bother with Pride if you don't want to - I don't - but you might reexamine your attitude.
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    Jun 24, 2012 8:19 AM GMT
    This is just a generation conflict; The gay rights movement is a historical product that has less of an impact today and most younger guys/girls (myself included) grew up in a totally different environment. I would say ignore their comments, but be aware of where we came from ...
  • jellofellow

    Posts: 8

    Jun 24, 2012 1:32 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    jellofellow saidi'd never experienced any kind of homophobia in my life,


    Are you sure you've no homophobia in your life? Are you a US citizen? What do you suppose motivates this government to keep us from enjoying our human rights (protections against workplace and housing discrimination, marriage, adoption in some states, et al). Not homophobia? Do they treat us as second class citizens because they love us so much? And you are in Utah? So you have no gay Mormon friends with homophobic issues in their own famlies? Are their problems not your problem? Does the homophobia directed at our community not apply to you?

    And how about when we do finally get our rights, to be treated as 100% human being? Will you not benefit from that? So is it just easier for everyone else to do the work of supporting the cause for you? That's very convenient. Glad we could be of assistance.

    Your elders are not threatened by you. We are disappointed in you. Not for any lack of appreciation for the work done before you. But for the work to be done in your own life, even if that means just showing your support, which you refuse to do. Is that something you're really proud of?

    Pride, party of one.

    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance"~~Thomas Jefferson.


    the way i see it - look at the median income of gays, then look at the median income of any other minority.
    hard to feel 'oppressed' when the average gay is making 3x more than the average latino or african american.
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    Jun 24, 2012 1:52 PM GMT
    CrankyMcBadass saidDo what you want.
    You don't have the same rights as straight people, but that doesn't seem to bother you. The plight of other gay men and women who are still being beaten and bashed doesn't have anything to do with you, so why should you care?

    And why should anyone give a shit about you either? I know I don't,

    Note that this is his first post ever, joined yesterday from American Fork, Utah, population 26,000. Utah Gay Pride in Salt Lake City, 80 miles to the north, was June 1-3, not last week. His profile is totally empty except for his First Location. There seems to be some discrepancies here.
  • jellofellow

    Posts: 8

    Jun 24, 2012 2:02 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    CrankyMcBadass saidDo what you want.
    You don't have the same rights as straight people, but that doesn't seem to bother you. The plight of other gay men and women who are still being beaten and bashed doesn't have anything to do with you, so why should you care?

    And why should anyone give a shit about you either? I know I don't,

    Note that this is his first post ever, joined yesterday from American Fork, Utah, population 26,000. Utah Gay Pride in Salt Lake City, 80 miles to the north, was June 1-3, not last week. His profile is totally empty except for his First Location. There seems to be some discrepancies here.


    why in the world would i put my real information into some random gay website? i enter arbitrary birthday/location on any website that requires me to make an account. don't want my random internet postings to follow me around my whole life.
    if you must know, i live in DC.
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    Jun 24, 2012 2:49 PM GMT
    jellofellow saidthe way i see it - look at the median income of gays, then look at the median income of any other minority.
    hard to feel 'oppressed' when the average gay is making 3x more than the average latino or african american.


    That you don't view the oppression of your community as the oppression of you is not inconsistant with that you measure oppression not by human rights denied but by your perception of disposable income.
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    Jun 24, 2012 2:54 PM GMT
    jellofellow said
    Art_Deco said
    CrankyMcBadass saidDo what you want.
    You don't have the same rights as straight people, but that doesn't seem to bother you. The plight of other gay men and women who are still being beaten and bashed doesn't have anything to do with you, so why should you care?

    And why should anyone give a shit about you either? I know I don't,

    Note that this is his first post ever, joined yesterday from American Fork, Utah, population 26,000. Utah Gay Pride in Salt Lake City, 80 miles to the north, was June 1-3, not last week. His profile is totally empty except for his First Location. There seems to be some discrepancies here.


    why in the world would i put my real information into some random gay website? i enter arbitrary birthday/location on any website that requires me to make an account. don't want my random internet postings to follow me around my whole life.
    if you must know, i live in DC.
    Gee............. I guess that claim that you never experience homophobia in your life is a sham.. as well as the rest of your shtick..

    Hey! "i understand the whole forming a unique culture/identity was about self-protection/preservation, but it's not the 1960's anymore! " <--- look familiar?

    Now why again is your profile a sham as admitted by you?icon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gif

    I smell troll or sock!
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    Jun 24, 2012 4:10 PM GMT
    jellofellow saidOK, so i had a weird experience this week.
    would up striking a conversation with some older guys who were in town for pride, and i mentioned i'd never been. they asked why, i replied "it's not my thing." they pressed, and i said something along the lines of 'i dont identify much with being gay, i mostly see myself as a regular dude who really likes to have sex with other dudes." i explained that i'd never experienced any kind of homophobia in my life, 'coming out' was a non-event, and said that i just don't see the need to self-ghettoize in west hollywood/dupont/etc (ok poor choice of words on my part).
    well these guys got really upset and really defensive, saying i was privileged, entitled, ignoring the contributions of past generations, etc. they seemed genuinely offended i don't see the need to be a loud and proud gay.
    what i don't get - wasn't that the whole point of the gay rights movement?? to be treated as regular human beings?? i understand the whole forming a unique culture/identity was about self-protection/preservation, but it's not the 1960's anymore! being a homo is a non-issue in pretty much every major city and probably the rest of the country within the next decade. why can't everyone just do what they wanna do, and define themselves however they wanna define themselves?? icon_confused.gif

    I never experienced war. But I dont diss veterans.
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    Jun 24, 2012 4:14 PM GMT
    jellofellow saidOK, so i had a weird experience this week.
    would up striking a conversation with some older guys who were in town for pride, and i mentioned i'd never been. they asked why, i replied "it's not my thing." they pressed, and i said something along the lines of 'i dont identify much with being gay, i mostly see myself as a regular dude who really likes to have sex with other dudes." i explained that i'd never experienced any kind of homophobia in my life, 'coming out' was a non-event, and said that i just don't see the need to self-ghettoize in west hollywood/dupont/etc (ok poor choice of words on my part).
    well these guys got really upset and really defensive, saying i was privileged, entitled, ignoring the contributions of past generations, etc. they seemed genuinely offended i don't see the need to be a loud and proud gay.
    what i don't get - wasn't that the whole point of the gay rights movement?? to be treated as regular human beings?? i understand the whole forming a unique culture/identity was about self-protection/preservation, but it's not the 1960's anymore! being a homo is a non-issue in pretty much every major city and probably the rest of the country within the next decade. why can't everyone just do what they wanna do, and define themselves however they wanna define themselves?? icon_confused.gif



    I completely agree with you (except on the older guy part). Whenever I've stated that I don't like Pride events on here, it's almost always the very young guys who freak out and want to stab me in the face.
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    Jun 24, 2012 4:18 PM GMT
    jellofellow saidwhy in the world would i put my real information into some random gay website? i enter arbitrary birthday/location on any website that requires me to make an account. don't want my random internet postings to follow me around my whole life.
    if you must know, i live in DC.

    Don't worry at all about them. I have found both on RJ as well as in the real world that the most well-adjusted, well-rounded guys don't define themselves by just one thing. That doesn't mean a well-rounded person cannot be an activist for a particular issue, whether it be gay issues, environmental concerns, etc. It just means having an understanding that others have different priorities or issues.

    I find that the difficult guys you encountered come in two varieties: 1) some are not particularly political, i.e. strongly liberal vs fiscally conservative, but for them gay issues are the only thing that matters to them, or 2) some are far leftists, stridently, some socialists, and they use gayness as a means to beat others to support their political agendas.

    In any event, being new on RJ, don't worry about the strident ones. They come in both varieties. Also there are younger as well as older ones like this, but there are also younger and older ones who are well-adjusted and well-rounded. Bottom line is you can think as you choose and not allow yourself to be bullied by anyone.
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    Jun 24, 2012 4:20 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidBottom line is you can think as you choose and not allow yourself to be bullied by anyone.
    Then quit the bullying..icon_wink.gif
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    Jun 24, 2012 4:28 PM GMT
    *amused that who and how you love does not define you*

    Something to consider: Those that do not like gay people define you by it, and disregard all else about you.
  • araphael

    Posts: 1148

    Jun 25, 2012 4:28 AM GMT
    An older gay guy threatened? dude, I think you might be misreading your reality just a little.
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    Jun 25, 2012 4:59 AM GMT
    No worries dude. Just live your life how you see fit. If someone has a problem with it... well, that's their problem right? icon_wink.gif
  • tyler_helm

    Posts: 299

    Jun 25, 2012 5:07 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    CrankyMcBadass saidDo what you want.
    You don't have the same rights as straight people, but that doesn't seem to bother you. The plight of other gay men and women who are still being beaten and bashed doesn't have anything to do with you, so why should you care?

    And why should anyone give a shit about you either? I know I don't,

    Note that this is his first post ever, joined yesterday from American Fork, Utah, population 26,000. Utah Gay Pride in Salt Lake City, 80 miles to the north, was June 1-3, not last week. His profile is totally empty except for his First Location. There seems to be some discrepancies here.


    And if Art Deco wasn't given you his gay seal of approval then you don't really exist and your opinion doesn't matter.
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    Jun 25, 2012 5:18 AM GMT
    I pretty much feel the same way as you. I wish people would stop trying to clump everyone together and respect the fact that each individual is different and chooses to live life in the best way they see fit.
  • Generaleclect...

    Posts: 504

    Jun 25, 2012 5:53 AM GMT
    If gayness were as cool and socially acceptable as the "straight n' masculine" ideal, there'd be virtually no one saying "my sexuality doesn't define me." We all know this.

    I find that guys who say this really believe gays are campy, marginalized beta-men, and they're too pussy to admit it.
  • jellofellow

    Posts: 8

    Jun 25, 2012 12:23 PM GMT
    Generaleclectic saidIf gayness were as cool and socially acceptable as the "straight n' masculine" ideal, there'd be virtually no one saying "my sexuality doesn't define me." We all know this.

    I find that guys who say this really believe gays are campy, marginalized beta-men, and they're too pussy to admit it.


    Isn't it gay men who elevate "straight n' masculine" as the ideal? go on grindr or adam4adam and look at how many profiles say 'masc only' or 'no fem'.

    I'd argue that until relatively recently campy/overly gay guys represented gays as a whole as they had a much harder time hiding it, and were in a way sort of forced to embrace their homo-ness (which was a great thing for all of us!) It's only recently that the vast majority of non-overt homos have felt comfortable being open about liking sex/dating/relationships with other men.
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    Jun 25, 2012 12:30 PM GMT
    Now one is 50 and out from a young age. One must conceed the homophobia I have personally experienced has been minimal. I struggle to recall anything serious; even when I looked for it by walking around a city of Australia holding hands with my male friends in the 1980s. My personal experience is that people really don't care.
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    Jun 25, 2012 1:39 PM GMT
    Generaleclectic saidIf gayness were as cool and socially acceptable as the "straight n' masculine" ideal, there'd be virtually no one saying "my sexuality doesn't define me." We all know this.

    1+
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    Jun 25, 2012 2:04 PM GMT
    jellofellow said

    why in the world would i put my real information into some random gay website? i enter arbitrary birthday/location on any website that requires me to make an account. don't want my random internet postings to follow me around my whole life.
    if you must know, i live in DC.


    OK, so you've never experienced homophobia, but you're afraid to put in your location or a picture. Think harder.

    Be yourself, don't be flamboyant, have many interests, let being gay be only one facet of your life. All good. But you are fooling yourself if you think it's a non-issue. One of the major political parties has clearly discriminatory homophobic planks in its platform, both nationally and (in many cases, much worse) in many states.

  • great_scott

    Posts: 519

    Jun 25, 2012 2:35 PM GMT
    Some guys are just ultra sensitive because they've had to work so hard (attend a ton of NA meetings) to accept themselves. So any opinion different from their own is perceived as a threat to their well-being. Define yourself how you want to, and anyone with an objection can kick rocks.