The unspoken divide

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 24, 2012 5:01 PM GMT
    I was very interested in this article about the generational divide in political opinions:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/24/opinion/sunday/the-generation-gap-is-back.html?ref=opinion

    We see this a lot on RealJock—practically all of the right wing posters are old. Given the extent to which that generation has fucked up the country, is it time to give the fat cat over 40s a heart attack?
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    Jun 24, 2012 5:12 PM GMT
    Don't know what your statistical sampling technique is, but I notice many counter examples on RJ - hard leftists old and fiscally conservative young. One thing that could bias your sampling is there are a number of fiscally conservative guys who email myself and others but choose to not post at all or very often in the political areas.

    Also while the article discusses both economic and social issues, it doesn't control for them specifically. We could find a larger divide in social issues, but less of one in economic issues.
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    Jun 24, 2012 6:08 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidDon't know what your statistical sampling technique is, but I notice many counter examples on RJ - hard leftists old and fiscally conservative young. One thing that could bias your sampling is there are a number of fiscally conservative guys who email myself and others but choose to not post at all or very often in the political areas.


    Ah yes, the made-up silent majority. Plausible, very plausible.
  • nanidesukedo

    Posts: 1036

    Jun 24, 2012 6:30 PM GMT
    TigerTim said
    socalfitness saidDon't know what your statistical sampling technique is, but I notice many counter examples on RJ - hard leftists old and fiscally conservative young. One thing that could bias your sampling is there are a number of fiscally conservative guys who email myself and others but choose to not post at all or very often in the political areas.


    Ah yes, the made-up silent majority. Plausible, very plausible.


    Cue the sock accounts.
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    Jun 24, 2012 6:32 PM GMT
    That's unfortunate, since we're all going to grow old. We're all going to be Republicans. icon_twisted.gif
  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Jun 24, 2012 7:35 PM GMT
    I would think TigerTim, a man of your renowned scholastic ability, would give consideration to genetic selectors we have been so naively toying with over the last 100 years or so. I would not bet that today's young liberals can survive “on their own.” In fact, they do not do so today.
  • nanidesukedo

    Posts: 1036

    Jun 24, 2012 7:59 PM GMT
    conservativejock saidI would think TigerTim, a man of your renowned scholastic ability, would give consideration to genetic selectors we have been so naively toying with over the last 100 years or so. I would not bet that today's young liberals can survive “on their own.” In fact, they do not do so today.


    Nope, we don't survive on our own at all. That's why the hicks from my conservative town where I was born all have kids and live in trailer parks and off the government's money (and are still conservative bumfucks) and I, and my more "liberal" friends who weren't strict Southern Baptists at the time went to college, have degrees, and are doing quite well.

    Yep...it's the damned young liberals that can't survive on their own.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 24, 2012 8:10 PM GMT
    I have often found that successful men are often more conservative and immature and stupid men are often liberal, but that is not a scientific study in any form.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 24, 2012 8:14 PM GMT
    conservativejock saidI would think TigerTim, a man of your renowned scholastic ability, would give consideration to genetic selectors we have been so naively toying with over the last 100 years or so. I would not bet that today's young liberals can survive “on their own.” In fact, they do not do so today.
    Neither do the 'conservatives'.. ask riddler (not to mention most of the other 'youngsters' here) if he still lives with mommy and daddy!icon_wink.gif
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    Jun 24, 2012 8:15 PM GMT
    smartmoney saidI have often found that successful men are often more conservative and immature and stupid men are often liberal, but that is not a scientific study in any form.


    Where's the comma? Is it:
    often more conservative and immature, and stupid men

    or

    often more conservative, and immature and stupid men

    icon_lol.gif
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    Jun 24, 2012 10:56 PM GMT
    TigerTim saidAh yes, the made-up silent majority. Plausible, very plausible.

    Hard to imagine, indeed, especially with the most charming personalities of the hard-lefties, their openness to alternate viewpoints, and their respectful manners of dissent. Hard to imagine, indeed. icon_lol.gif
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Jun 24, 2012 11:13 PM GMT
    nanidesukedo said
    conservativejock saidI would think TigerTim, a man of your renowned scholastic ability, would give consideration to genetic selectors we have been so naively toying with over the last 100 years or so. I would not bet that today's young liberals can survive “on their own.” In fact, they do not do so today.


    Nope, we don't survive on our own at all. That's why the hicks from my conservative town where I was born all have kids and live in trailer parks and off the government's money (and are still conservative bumfucks) and I, and my more "liberal" friends who weren't strict Southern Baptists at the time went to college, have degrees, and are doing quite well.

    Yep...it's the damned young liberals that can't survive on their own.


    talk about self loathing.icon_wink.gif

    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.

    The language and way you speak about others is one of the reason why I cannot associate with the Democratic/Liberal philosophy at all. ( at least in the North American circle).

    While simultaneously striving for liberal ideals, many in the political realm will in the same moment devalue and directly contradict there own slogans.
    ex ( Obamas Guns/Religion reference)


    I find more comfort in Libertarian circles.
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    Jun 24, 2012 11:31 PM GMT
    musclmed saidtalk about self loathing.icon_wink.gif

    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.

    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the left. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the left from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    (BTW - When I am referring to people with advanced degrees, I am not referring to the OP. He can be condescending and annoying, but he doesn't try to degrade people as do others.)
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Jun 24, 2012 11:38 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    musclmed saidtalk about self loathing.icon_wink.gif

    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.

    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the left. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the left from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    (BTW - When I am referring to people with advanced degrees, I am not referring to the OP. He can be condescending and annoying, but he doesn't try to degrade people as do others.)


    I agree, but the "ones" you speak of are usually the ones who take the microphone on stage. But are by far not the majority of those who are "left leaning". In fact I believe the majority have a mixture of centrist and liberal views depending on the topic.

    That would also go for the more conservative leaning groups as well.

    For myself I have a better chance under a libertarian free society , than a nanny state governed by emotional whims of the moment.
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1981

    Jun 24, 2012 11:40 PM GMT
    What's fascinating to me is how resistant the Republican party is to change, even in the face of crippling failure.
    John McCain lost the last Presidential election in a massive, humiliating landslide, but the GOP seems to have learned nothing from that defeat.
    Instead of moving into the present and trying to woo the new electorate, Republicans have doubled down on the homophobia, the immigrant-bashing, the religious fundamentalism and the hostility to women that sends throngs of younger voters running into the arms of their opponents.

    The aging Southern bigots are shrinking in numbers and influence but the GOP kowtows to them now more than they ever did.
    The Romney campaign is far more socially conservative than John McCain's ever was.

    I wonder how many elections they will have to lose before they get the message.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 24, 2012 11:43 PM GMT
    musclmed said
    socalfitness said
    musclmed saidtalk about self loathing.icon_wink.gif

    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.

    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the left. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the left from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    (BTW - When I am referring to people with advanced degrees, I am not referring to the OP. He can be condescending and annoying, but he doesn't try to degrade people as do others.)


    I agree, but the "ones" you speak of are usually the ones who take the microphone on stage. But are by far not the majority of those who are "left leaning". In fact I believe the majority have a mixture of centrist and liberal views depending on the topic.

    That would also go for the more conservative leaning groups as well.

    For myself I have a better chance under a libertarian free society , than a nanny state governed by emotional whims of the moment.

    Certainly there are extremists on the right who could not have any kind of intellectual discussion supporting their position. I was referring to the population of more educated looking back on my university days and beyond, where I do see a difference between left and right as I noted. These aren't just the speakers or demagogues who take the microphone, but the guys who post on message boards, just from my observation.
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    Jun 25, 2012 12:24 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    musclmed saidtalk about self loathing.icon_wink.gif

    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.

    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the left. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the left from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    (BTW - When I am referring to people with advanced degrees, I am not referring to the OP. He can be condescending and annoying, but he doesn't try to degrade people as do others.)
    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.
    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the right. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the right from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    Mirrors suck, dont they?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 25, 2012 12:26 AM GMT
    KissTheSky saidWhat's fascinating to me is how resistant the Republican party is to change, even in the face of crippling failure.
    John McCain lost the last Presidential election in a massive, humiliating landslide, but the GOP seems to have learned nothing from that defeat.
    Instead of moving into the present and trying to woo the new electorate, Republicans have doubled down on the homophobia, the immigrant-bashing, the religious fundamentalism and the hostility to women that sends throngs of younger voters running into the arms of their opponents.

    The aging Southern bigots are shrinking in numbers and influence but the GOP kowtows to them now more than they ever did.
    The Romney campaign is far more socially conservative than John McCain's ever was.

    I wonder how many elections they will have to lose before they get the message.



    If 2008 was a "massive humiliating landslide" what was 64, 72 and 84?
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1981

    Jun 25, 2012 12:57 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    KissTheSky saidWhat's fascinating to me is how resistant the Republican party is to change, even in the face of crippling failure.
    John McCain lost the last Presidential election in a massive, humiliating landslide, but the GOP seems to have learned nothing from that defeat.
    Instead of moving into the present and trying to woo the new electorate, Republicans have doubled down on the homophobia, the immigrant-bashing, the religious fundamentalism and the hostility to women that sends throngs of younger voters running into the arms of their opponents.

    The aging Southern bigots are shrinking in numbers and influence but the GOP kowtows to them now more than they ever did.
    The Romney campaign is far more socially conservative than John McCain's ever was.

    I wonder how many elections they will have to lose before they get the message.



    If 2008 was a "massive humiliating landslide" what was 64, 72 and 84?


    48 years ago, 40 years ago, and 28 years ago.
    Millions of today's voters weren't even born when these elections happened, but the GOP is still using the same playbook.
    The world has moved on, but the Republicans have not.

  • nanidesukedo

    Posts: 1036

    Jun 25, 2012 1:55 AM GMT
    TropicalMark said
    socalfitness said
    musclmed saidtalk about self loathing.icon_wink.gif

    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.

    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the left. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the left from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    (BTW - When I am referring to people with advanced degrees, I am not referring to the OP. He can be condescending and annoying, but he doesn't try to degrade people as do others.)
    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.
    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the right. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the right from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    Mirrors suck, dont they?


    What you get at on here, Mark, is what irks me about the conservative members on here. They sit around and play innocent victim constantly - they make these long, drawn out posts about how there is lack of civility from other people and that intellectual discourse isn't welcome - when they, among all the people on Real jock, are the ones most doing what they accuse and bemoan others of doing. I mean, I don't see our members going around and creating threads meant specifically to chastise a particular member of the board and then, even long after that thread has died, bumping it.

    Above the tactics which you bitch and moan about, guys? Hardly. You are the source of it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 25, 2012 2:09 AM GMT
    nanidesukedo said
    TropicalMark said
    socalfitness said
    musclmed saidtalk about self loathing.icon_wink.gif

    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.

    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the left. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the left from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    (BTW - When I am referring to people with advanced degrees, I am not referring to the OP. He can be condescending and annoying, but he doesn't try to degrade people as do others.)
    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.
    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the right. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the right from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    Mirrors suck, dont they?


    What you get at on here, Mark, is what irks me about the conservative members on here. They sit around and play innocent victim constantly - they make these long, drawn out posts about how there is lack of civility from other people and that intellectual discourse isn't welcome - when they, among all the people on Real jock, are the ones most doing what they accuse and bemoan others of doing. I mean, I don't see our members going around and creating threads meant specifically to chastise a particular member of the board and then, even long after that thread has died, bumping it.

    Above the tactics which you bitch and moan about, guys? Hardly. You are the source of it.
    Oh I know.. that's why I am hated here by them so badly.. My entire goal here is to contribute nothing to their bullshit but illuminate the hypocrisy at every turn and every instance. I am a thorn in their pity party and the hate me for it.
    There is NO reason whatsoever to have a 'civil discussion', as they put it, when they have no plans on participating in one to begin with. It a moot point.

    But I will continue to use that huge mirror! (they hate it!)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 25, 2012 2:23 AM GMT
    KissTheSky said
    freedomisntfree said
    KissTheSky saidWhat's fascinating to me is how resistant the Republican party is to change, even in the face of crippling failure.
    John McCain lost the last Presidential election in a massive, humiliating landslide, but the GOP seems to have learned nothing from that defeat.
    Instead of moving into the present and trying to woo the new electorate, Republicans have doubled down on the homophobia, the immigrant-bashing, the religious fundamentalism and the hostility to women that sends throngs of younger voters running into the arms of their opponents.

    The aging Southern bigots are shrinking in numbers and influence but the GOP kowtows to them now more than they ever did.
    The Romney campaign is far more socially conservative than John McCain's ever was.

    I wonder how many elections they will have to lose before they get the message.



    If 2008 was a "massive humiliating landslide" what was 64, 72 and 84?


    48 years ago, 40 years ago, and 28 years ago.
    Millions of today's voters weren't even born when these elections happened, but the GOP is still using the same playbook.
    The world has moved on, but the Republicans have not.



    So the definition of "massive humiliating landslide" has changed? How so and when?
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Jun 25, 2012 2:36 AM GMT
    nanidesukedo said
    TropicalMark said
    socalfitness said
    musclmed saidtalk about self loathing.icon_wink.gif

    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.

    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the left. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the left from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    (BTW - When I am referring to people with advanced degrees, I am not referring to the OP. He can be condescending and annoying, but he doesn't try to degrade people as do others.)
    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.
    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the right. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the right from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    Mirrors suck, dont they?


    What you get at on here, Mark, is what irks me about the conservative members on here. They sit around and play innocent victim constantly - they make these long, drawn out posts about how there is lack of civility from other people and that intellectual discourse isn't welcome - when they, among all the people on Real jock, are the ones most doing what they accuse and bemoan others of doing. I mean, I don't see our members going around and creating threads meant specifically to chastise a particular member of the board and then, even long after that thread has died, bumping it.

    Above the tactics which you bitch and moan about, guys? Hardly. You are the source of it.


    Thank you.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 25, 2012 3:06 AM GMT
    nanidesukedo said
    TropicalMark said
    socalfitness said
    musclmed saidtalk about self loathing.icon_wink.gif

    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.

    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the left. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the left from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    (BTW - When I am referring to people with advanced degrees, I am not referring to the OP. He can be condescending and annoying, but he doesn't try to degrade people as do others.)
    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.
    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the right. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the right from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    Mirrors suck, dont they?


    What you get at on here, Mark, is what irks me about the conservative members on here. They sit around and play innocent victim constantly - they make these long, drawn out posts about how there is lack of civility from other people and that intellectual discourse isn't welcome - when they, among all the people on Real jock, are the ones most doing what they accuse and bemoan others of doing. I mean, I don't see our members going around and creating threads meant specifically to chastise a particular member of the board and then, even long after that thread has died, bumping it.

    Above the tactics which you bitch and moan about, guys? Hardly. You are the source of it.


    You know .... that's precisely what I would say about your side. So now what?
  • nanidesukedo

    Posts: 1036

    Jun 25, 2012 3:18 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    nanidesukedo said
    TropicalMark said
    socalfitness said
    musclmed saidtalk about self loathing.icon_wink.gif

    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.

    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the left. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the left from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    (BTW - When I am referring to people with advanced degrees, I am not referring to the OP. He can be condescending and annoying, but he doesn't try to degrade people as do others.)
    Instead of mulling over the reasons why groups of people hold certain values, why not just respect them and put forth a counter argument?

    Unless your specific argument in your own mind is flawed.
    Starting with my university days I noticed there were a few logical, clear thinkers on the right. When you peeled through the various layers of belief, they just had a different world view, a different set of assumptions. These people you could talk with and have an intelligent discussion. The majority, but certainly not all, of those on the right from my observation, certainly on RJ, are people who may have advanced degrees in some field, but are fundamentally unable to have intellectual discussions supporting their beliefs. They are easy to spot by their condescending put-downs of other people who have different beliefs. They may degrade others by their socio-economic status, belief in religion, or lack of college degrees. What they don't understand is when they degrade others, they really degrade themselves much more profoundly.

    Mirrors suck, dont they?


    What you get at on here, Mark, is what irks me about the conservative members on here. They sit around and play innocent victim constantly - they make these long, drawn out posts about how there is lack of civility from other people and that intellectual discourse isn't welcome - when they, among all the people on Real jock, are the ones most doing what they accuse and bemoan others of doing. I mean, I don't see our members going around and creating threads meant specifically to chastise a particular member of the board and then, even long after that thread has died, bumping it.

    Above the tactics which you bitch and moan about, guys? Hardly. You are the source of it.


    You know .... that's precisely what I would say about your side. So now what?


    I don't see us making posts about how posters shouldn't be discouraged by the evil, mean, and terrible conservatives and then espousing how amazing our values and characters are, stating our innocence of all intellectual dishonesty and lack of character over and over and over again.