smartmoney saidDude, enough already. Pride has become nothing more than a cyclone of obnoxious losers posing as shallow porn stars in diapers. If the drg queens from Stonewall knew what mess they were creating they probably would have quit and closed that closet door. Jesus.
What I think Smartmoney has illuminated here is the inconvenient truth that many even within the gay community do not relate to these pride events in any way, nor do they even want to. I'm not judging either way, only making the point that we have a great big divide within the gay community, so it's no wonder we have somewhat of a P.R. problem with the public at large, and why things like getting "gay marriage" passed are an uphill battle that fail more often than not.
smartmoney saidDude, enough already. Pride has become nothing more than a cyclone of obnoxious losers posing as shallow porn stars in diapers. If the drg queens from Stonewall knew what mess they were creating they probably would have quit and closed that closet door. Jesus.
Yeah there are parties and sex going on but there's so much more. Last week I attended a annual pride event at the law society where a panel talked about the charter of rights and all the legal battles we've won and been through and still going through (marriage, adoption, donating blood , GSA,s) and its an amazing inspiring event that happens bc of pride. Then for the annual pride flag raising at toronto city hall our homophobic mayor rrefused to attend again which speaks to how important the pride parade is. Not to mention the numerous other events around the city celebrating community leaders and contributors. People like u need to get the f off their lazy ass and go look for these events In your city to learn what pride still is about before you make judgment based on one aspect of the pride week. No doubt if u were straight you,d be more of a homophobic prick based on what the media fed you. Reading the comments in real jock gets annoying cuz so many people don't realize we wouldn't even have this site safely if it wasn't for all the visibility of gays , good and not conforming to good over the years.
smartmoney saidDude, enough already. Pride has become nothing more than a cyclone of obnoxious losers posing as shallow porn stars in diapers. If the drg queens from Stonewall knew what mess they were creating they probably would have quit and closed that closet door. Jesus.
What I think Smartmoney has illuminated here is the inconvenient truth that many even within the gay community do not relate to these pride events in any way, nor do they even want to. I'm not judging either way, only making the point that we have a great big divide within the gay community, so it's no wonder we have somewhat of a P.R. problem with the public at large, and why things like getting "gay marriage" passed are an uphill battle that fail more often than not.
Or that some prescribe to the general stereotypes and prefer the closet instead of acknowledgement that homosexuality exists.
So whether straight or gay society generally has a diverse acceptance on everything that is human. The problem always seems to be harsher when someone belongs to a minority group. Then they are crude and unnormal. Sexuality in the hetero world is just as animalistic as in the homo world. Any prissy queen that choses to live in judo-christain white washed world has that right but reality will tell you that that is not the only way to live.
smartmoney saidDude, enough already. Pride has become nothing more than a cyclone of obnoxious losers posing as shallow porn stars in diapers. If the drg queens from Stonewall knew what mess they were creating they probably would have quit and closed that closet door. Jesus.
What I think Smartmoney has illuminated here is the inconvenient truth that many even within the gay community do not relate to these pride events in any way, nor do they even want to. I'm not judging either way, only making the point that we have a great big divide within the gay community, so it's no wonder we have somewhat of a P.R. problem with the public at large, and why things like getting "gay marriage" passed are an uphill battle that fail more often than not.
Or that some prescribe to the general stereotypes and prefer the closet instead of acknowledgement that homosexuality exists.
So whether straight or gay society generally has a diverse acceptance on everything that is human. The problem always seems to be harsher when someone belongs to a minority group. Then they are crude and unnormal. Sexuality in the hetero world is just as animalistic as in the homo world. Any prissy queen that choses to live in judo-christain white washed world has that right but reality will tell you that that is not the only way to live.
Doubtful that the only choice is a brash pride parade and a closet. The good people who faught police at Stonewall did so for a lot of reasons, not just for the right for worked out nimrods to wear jockstraps in public once a year.
smartmoney saidDude, enough already. Pride has become nothing more than a cyclone of obnoxious losers posing as shallow porn stars in diapers. If the drg queens from Stonewall knew what mess they were creating they probably would have quit and closed that closet door. Jesus.
What I think Smartmoney has illuminated here is the inconvenient truth that many even within the gay community do not relate to these pride events in any way, nor do they even want to. I'm not judging either way, only making the point that we have a great big divide within the gay community, so it's no wonder we have somewhat of a P.R. problem with the public at large, and why things like getting "gay marriage" passed are an uphill battle that fail more often than not.
Or that some prescribe to the general stereotypes and prefer the closet instead of acknowledgement that homosexuality exists.
So whether straight or gay society generally has a diverse acceptance on everything that is human. The problem always seems to be harsher when someone belongs to a minority group. Then they are crude and unnormal. Sexuality in the hetero world is just as animalistic as in the homo world. Any prissy queen that choses to live in judo-christain white washed world has that right but reality will tell you that that is not the only way to live.
Doubtful that the only choice is a brash pride parade and a closet. The good people who faught police at Stonewall did so for a lot of reasons, not just for the right for worked out nimrods to wear jockstraps in public once a year.
Actually, it was for the right to be treated like a Human Being REGARDLESS of what you are wearing or wether or not you listen to the right music or speak the "correct" way.
The rights fought for and thus far won - are for ALL Gay People...not just the ones that fit into your comfort zone.
The "good people" at Stonewall were a bunch of Drag Queens btw. Not a bunch of masc straight-acting laid back down to earth regular bros who just happen to be into dudes. They were a bunch of outrageous loudmothed Drag Queens.
So ya may wanna keep yer condescending comments in check.
Actually, it was for the right to be treated like a Human Being REGARDLESS of what you are wearing or wether or not you listen to the right music or speak the "correct" way.
The rights fought for and thus far won - are for ALL Gay People...not just the ones that fit into your comfort zone.
Actually, it was for the right to be treated like a Human Being REGARDLESS of what you are wearing or wether or not you listen to the right music or speak the "correct" way.
The rights fought for and thus far won - are for ALL Gay People...not just the ones that fit into your comfort zone.
a-FUCKING-men.
Once again, it is Cash that gives the definitive post.
Actually, it was for the right to be treated like a Human Being REGARDLESS of what you are wearing or wether or not you listen to the right music or speak the "correct" way.
The rights fought for and thus far won - are for ALL Gay People...not just the ones that fit into your comfort zone.
The "good people" at Stonewall were a bunch of Drag Queens btw. Not a bunch of masc straight-acting laid back down to earth regular bros who just happen to be into dudes. They were a bunch of outrageous loudmothed Drag Queens.
So ya may wanna keep yer condescending comments in check.
Actually, it was for the right to be treated like a Human Being REGARDLESS of what you are wearing or wether or not you listen to the right music or speak the "correct" way.
The rights fought for and thus far won - are for ALL Gay People...not just the ones that fit into your comfort zone.
a-FUCKING-men.
Once again, it is Cash that gives the definitive post.
Check, please.
As I attempted to note with my picture essay above, Pride parades have a lot more than just hot guys in jockstraps. Not sure why anyone, especially amongst us, would focus just on that.
Nor, CuriousJockAZ, do I understand why anyone but a hatist would focus on a few guys in jockstraps and convert that to an argument against gay marriage. Unless, that is, they were previously disposed that way and are using the "jockstrap argument" as a pretext.
After all, I don't hear those people arguing against straight marriage because of Mardi Gras, the existence of Hooters, the Tailhook scandal, etc.
43 years after Stonewall (wow, wasn't Stonewall 25 just the other day?), and some 40 years into Pride marches and parades (even just the conceptualization of "Gay Pride" rather than shame) we are light years ahead of where we used to be.
Really, do you think we would be better off without them?!
Actually, it was for the right to be treated like a Human Being REGARDLESS of what you are wearing or wether or not you listen to the right music or speak the "correct" way.
The rights fought for and thus far won - are for ALL Gay People...not just the ones that fit into your comfort zone.
a-FUCKING-men.
Once again, it is Cash that gives the definitive post.
Check, please.
As I attempted to note with my picture essay above, Pride parades have a lot more than just hot guys in jockstraps. Not sure why anyone, especially amongst us, would focus just on that.
Nor, CuriousJockAZ, do I understand why anyone but a hatist would focus on a few guys in jockstraps and convert that to an argument against gay marriage. Unless, that is, they were previously disposed that way and are using the "jockstrap argument" as a pretext.
After all, I don't hear those people arguing against straight marriage because of Mardi Gras, the existence of Hooters, the Tailhook scandal, etc.
43 years after Stonewall (wow, wasn't Stonewall 25 just the other day?), and some 40 years into Pride marches and parades (even just the conceptualization of "Gay Pride" rather than shame) we are light years ahead of where we used to be.
Really, do you think we would be better off without them?!
I would like ANYone to cite ONE (1) concrete example where a Pride Parade has set US back...where??? when???? How???? Give Me ONE example. Just one .
I get it -- there is some trash there. SO WHAT??? What happens at the parade and what happens at the bars afterwards are two TOTALLY different things.
I think Smartmoney is attempting a Gore Vidal-esque critique of the whole gay orthodoxy . . . and I'm not saying he is successful or entirely cogent. . . but what began as a liberationist movement has clearly become an assimiliationist movement . .. that, surely, is not a small change and is worthy of explication . .
as for Cash, you are clearly a self-absorbed ass and a horrid bully . . .
noren saidI think Smartmoney is attempting a Gore Vidal-esque critique of the whole gay orthodoxy . . . and I'm not saying he is successful or entirely cogent. . . but what began as a liberationist movement has clearly become an assimiliationist movement . .. that, surely, is not a small change and is worthy of explication . .
as for Cash, you are clearly a self-absorbed ass and a horrid bully . . .
yeah - that's the way I am often described.
I remember coming out in the early 80's...when everybody was dying and at the age of 14 I thought it was WRONG to tell Gay Men that they deserved what they got and decided to to risk My life to say NO.
I guess My self absorbtion was really obvious as I went up against the "orthadoxy" of the prevailing socio-economic, political system that was in place at the time.
Glad YOU are able to go On-Line and look at naked Men.
yer amateur.
and cheap.
ask around "dude".... see what kinda comments ya get.
noren saidI think Smartmoney is attempting a Gore Vidal-esque critique of the whole gay orthodoxy . . . and I'm not saying he is successful or entirely cogent. . . but what began as a liberationist movement has clearly become an assimiliationist movement . .. that, surely, is not a small change and is worthy of explication . .
as for Cash, you are clearly a self-absorbed ass and a horrid bully . . .
LOL - Gore Vidal would rather peck his own eyes out with a bic pen then be on the same land mass as you.
After all, I don't hear those people arguing against straight marriage because of Mardi Gras, the existence of Hooters, the Tailhook scandal, etc.
... Really, do you think we would be better off without them?!
A better question is why should the 98% give a flying fuck about the annoying 2%? Complainers will continue to complain. Negative people will continue to be negative. And so what? Meanwhile, Pride will carry on the legacy of Stonewall and progress will continue to be made. *shrug*
I don't know why we continue to let these Debbie Downers derail these threads when, really, their whining doesn't amount to sack of shit.
Thank you Metta for bringing over the link. I learned something about gay history today and it has me researching more. It is amazing how far we as a minority have come. Next year I am most definitely going to show my support at pride next year
Also a big Thank you to Cash for sticking up for us. I see you do this in many threads and I appreciate it. It is sad that even within our own community there is such ignorance and narrow mindedness.
As for the people complaining about the parades go as someone once said "be the change you want to see in the world". If you think its more about sex then protecting our rights and is negative publicity for us then go out next year and participate in the way you want to see the parade be. But don't hate on others for how they choose to celebrate who they are.
I was looking through pictures of this years Chicago Parade and I also had friends who went and it was much more then just guys is pink diapers.
Wolverine4 said Nor, CuriousJockAZ, do I understand why anyone but a hatist would focus on a few guys in jockstraps and convert that to an argument against gay marriage. Unless, that is, they were previously disposed that way and are using the "jockstrap argument" as a pretext.
Where did I do that? All I did was point out the reality that "Pride Parades", like it or not, are not something that all gays want as a representation of the community as a whole. Not everyone in the gay community relates to them, so it's no big surprise that people in the straight community look at them a certain way as well. As I said in my original point -- I AM NOT JUDGING -- these events are what they are, and that isn't likely ever going to change.
Wolverine4 said Nor, CuriousJockAZ, do I understand why anyone but a hatist would focus on a few guys in jockstraps and convert that to an argument against gay marriage. Unless, that is, they were previously disposed that way and are using the "jockstrap argument" as a pretext.
Where did I do that? All I did was point out the reality that "Pride Parades", like it or not, are not something that all gays want as a representation of the community as a whole. Not everyone in the gay community relates to them, so it's no big surprise that people in the straight community look at them a certain way as well. As I said in my original point -- I AM NOT JUDGING -- these events are what they are, and that isn't likely ever going to change.
Awright CJ -- you KNOW I adore you, even tho we are often on different pages...BUT
There is no ONE event that represents an ENTIRE community. It is like saying you can produce a movie or song or Broadway show that will appeal to EVERYBODY. It is like saying you will build ONE house and EVERYBODY will love the architecture. It is like saying YOU know the one TRUE religion.
It is just ONE of MANY shades.
What do you say to the Gay Men and Women who DO relate to the Pride events????
That THEY should stop????
This is NOT a PR issue btw. I was once a rather fancy PR executive -- so I know what I am talking about.
Kim Kardashian's sex tape is a PR issue.
Oksana Baiul ramming her Mercedes into a tree after 11 Long Island Iced Teas is a PR issue.
Human Rights is not so trite.
And when is the last time you heard a Straight ANYBODY bitching about a Pride event???? The Straight Men and Women who go LOVE it -- and THEY are not whoring it up. The ones who are not interested -- simply don't go.
It seems Gay dudes bitch the loudest. Often the ones who have never been to one. And I am SORRY - but without naming names - I find it REALLY hard to believe that some of the LOUDEST bitchers REALLY had all THAT many guys trying to get into their pants as they stood on a sidewalk in broad day-light and watched a bunch of drag queens prance by.
Cash said...There is no ONE event that represents an ENTIRE community...
Word.
Christians can't even agree on Christmas (many think it too garish; others too secular; etc). Don't expect Pride to be a beacon for all of us...we're far too diverse and interesting a group to be summarized by a weekend event.
I think the whole concept of gay pride needs rejuvenation. Only being 22, my exposure to pride celebrations has been relatively limited, but I perceive "Pride" celebrations as a very public expression of what society doubts about the gay community, or is unsure about. After the Stonewall Riots, it was about emphasizing that sex (literally) between two men or two women was equally (....more ;p) enjoyable as between a man and a woman and that it was perfectly okay to enjoy it. In simpler terms, it was (or at least in hindsight) an effort to normalize certain aspects of the gay community that made the rest of society uneasy. The result society gradually accepts what pride celebrations are emphasizing.
As a young gay man who is well educated, and who has strong family support, I would love to celebrate things like Christmas and birthdays as an extended family gathering (as my family has in the past) with my future husband and children. My own family would not have a problem at all with this and would be unphased, but imagine if family gatherings around North America were able to enjoy such comfort.
I think the rejuvenation that pride celebrations need must involve emphasis on being able to form and uphold a great family, despite many adverse beliefs. I would love if pride deviated from the leather-bound, feather clad, drunken enthusiasts (and I'll admit, the last pride celebration I went to that fit that description was fun....) and shifted to showing society that this is the next step in the ongoing gay rights movement. Before you know it, just as gay sex acts were once outlawed and are now "legal" (not even recognized a legal matter?), adoption and other child bearing methods will be fully legalized.
If I could have one wish for the gay community, it would be to take pride in showing society that the the only difference between gay and straight is between the sheets and not between hearts.
maxferguson saidI think the whole concept of gay pride needs rejuvenation. Only being 22, my exposure to pride celebrations has been relatively limited, but I perceive "Pride" celebrations as a very public expression of what society doubts about the gay community, or is unsure about. After the Stonewall Riots, it was about emphasizing that sex (literally) between two men or two women was equally (....more ;p) enjoyable as between a man and a woman and that it was perfectly okay to enjoy it. In simpler terms, it was (or at least in hindsight) an effort to normalize certain aspects of the gay community that made the rest of society uneasy. The result society gradually accepts what pride celebrations are emphasizing.
As a young gay man who is well educated, and who has strong family support, I would love to celebrate things like Christmas and birthdays as an extended family gathering (as my family has in the past) with my future husband and children. My own family would not have a problem at all with this and would be unphased, but imagine if family gatherings around North America were able to enjoy such comfort.
I think the rejuvenation that pride celebrations need must involve emphasis on being able to form and uphold a great family, despite many adverse beliefs. I would love if pride deviated from the leather-bound, feather clad, drunken enthusiasts (and I'll admit, the last pride celebration I went to that fit that description was fun....) and shifted to showing society that this is the next step in the ongoing gay rights movement. Before you know it, just as gay sex acts were once outlawed and are now "legal" (not even recognized a legal matter?), adoption and other child bearing methods will be fully legalized.
If I could have one wish for the gay community, it would be to take pride in showing society that the the only difference between gay and straight is between the sheets and not between hearts.
While I understand what you are saying, where you celebrate PRIDE will effect the outcome you see. Are you going to a major city like SF, LA, or NYC? Yea, pride will be a little out there.
Are you in some Podunk state pride like the Montana one I went to this year? Well, I didnt see drunken behavior, but gay families, parents of gays, Christians, and straight allies all marching for equal rights.
Fact of the matter is, like the community, pride is a diversified event. You cant go to one and judge them all for their actions.
As to the fucktard, smartmoney, I totally agree man. We dont have equal rights and its time to start a serious conversation about why. There are two people we can blame, bigots who hate gays no matter what and gay people. I totally agree that bigots have NOTHING to do with us lacking rights, and it is completely how gay men act. 100% at blame. You are so fucking insightful!
maxferguson saidI think the whole concept of gay pride needs rejuvenation. Only being 22, my exposure to pride celebrations has been relatively limited, but I perceive "Pride" celebrations as a very public expression of what society doubts about the gay community, or is unsure about. After the Stonewall Riots, it was about emphasizing that sex (literally) between two men or two women was equally (....more ;p) enjoyable as between a man and a woman and that it was perfectly okay to enjoy it. In simpler terms, it was (or at least in hindsight) an effort to normalize certain aspects of the gay community that made the rest of society uneasy. The result society gradually accepts what pride celebrations are emphasizing.
As a young gay man who is well educated, and who has strong family support, I would love to celebrate things like Christmas and birthdays as an extended family gathering (as my family has in the past) with my future husband and children. My own family would not have a problem at all with this and would be unphased, but imagine if family gatherings around North America were able to enjoy such comfort.
I think the rejuvenation that pride celebrations need must involve emphasis on being able to form and uphold a great family, despite many adverse beliefs. I would love if pride deviated from the leather-bound, feather clad, drunken enthusiasts (and I'll admit, the last pride celebration I went to that fit that description was fun....) and shifted to showing society that this is the next step in the ongoing gay rights movement. Before you know it, just as gay sex acts were once outlawed and are now "legal" (not even recognized a legal matter?), adoption and other child bearing methods will be fully legalized.
If I could have one wish for the gay community, it would be to take pride in showing society that the the only difference between gay and straight is between the sheets and not between hearts.
Sometimes younger guys think they invented water. Aren't the majority of pride marchers in most places still religious groups, family groups, political groups, cultural groups? I sent several years in DC marching with a gay couples group, back when we were much less visible, and we never failed to get huge cheers. The bar floats with the gogo boys are fun, but they aren't everything.
showme saidSometimes younger guys think they invented water.
This line makes me laugh so much. Exactly how I felt in that thread about monogamy in which Firebrand had a mindblowing epiphany that no one else ever in the history of time has had.
We go to Pride every year with a straight couple, and they bring their 2 young daughters. The oldest likes to run up to shirtless guys, and say "You're not wearing a shirt!" Which we encourage.
Yes, they see drag queens dressed as nuns and floats going by filled with boys dancing in their briefs. It's funny, our straight friends don't think these folks cast a negative light on the entire gay community. Why do some gays insist they do?
Aren't the majority of pride marchers in most places still religious groups, family groups, political groups, cultural groups? I sent several years in DC marching with a gay couples group, back when we were much less visible, and we never failed to get huge cheers. The bar floats with the gogo boys are fun, but they aren't everything.