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i hope i have the chance to meet this veterans and document there 43 years battle for equality.. Happy 43rd Stonewall everyone hugs & kisses with flying rainbows wew

endo said

showme saidSometimes younger guys think they invented water.

This line makes me laugh so much. Exactly how I felt in that thread about monogamy in which Firebrand had a mindblowing epiphany that no one else ever in the history of time has had.

We go to Pride every year with a straight couple, and they bring their 2 young daughters. The oldest likes to run up to shirtless guys, and say "You're not wearing a shirt!" Which we encourage.

Yes, they see drag queens dressed as nuns and floats going by filled with boys dancing in their briefs. It's funny, our straight friends don't think these folks cast a negative light on the entire gay community. Why do some gays insist they do?

Well, just because your friends like something does not mean everyone does, right?
I think pride is played out at this point. In recent years I have avoided "parades" because they are not pride marches, but chances in many cases for the rest of society to see images of gay life that they find offensive, the public jock straps, leather leashes and other displays of a silly life. When you bring your fetish lifestyle into the public arena you beg ridicule, and that diminishes the argument to be taken seriously the next day when you argue for equality.
The good news is a more mature gay population is moving out of the gay ghetto and having children, raising families and setting examples that they are in fact just as "normal" as any one else and when those people march, as they often do in some parades, it is in stark contrast to the infamous lobotomized mannequins that TV news love to focus on, those barely clad morons who show up scantily clad, high on whatever and with a message of meaningless immorality.

smartmoney said

endo said

showme saidSometimes younger guys think they invented water.

This line makes me laugh so much. Exactly how I felt in that thread about monogamy in which Firebrand had a mindblowing epiphany that no one else ever in the history of time has had.

We go to Pride every year with a straight couple, and they bring their 2 young daughters. The oldest likes to run up to shirtless guys, and say "You're not wearing a shirt!" Which we encourage.

Yes, they see drag queens dressed as nuns and floats going by filled with boys dancing in their briefs. It's funny, our straight friends don't think these folks cast a negative light on the entire gay community. Why do some gays insist they do?

Well, just because your friends like something does not mean everyone does, right?
I think pride is played out at this point. In recent years I have avoided "parades" because they are not pride marches, but chances in many cases for the rest of society to see images of gay life that they find offensive, the public jock straps, leather leashes and other displays of a silly life. When you bring your fetish lifestyle into the public arena you beg ridicule, and that diminishes the argument to be taken seriously the next day when you argue for equality.
The good news is a more mature gay population is moving out of the gay ghetto and having children, raising families and setting examples that they are in fact just as "normal" as any one else and when those people march, as they often do in some parades, it is in stark contrast to the infamous lobotomized mannequins that TV news love to focus on, those barely clad morons who show up scantily clad, high on whatever and with a message of meaningless immorality.

did you even BOTHER to actually read thru this thread and take a look at some of the images posted????

"normal" is HIGHLY relative btw. and those who are don't need to prove it. they simply are.

here's a few people who were not NORMAL...

Christopher Columbus
Thomas Edison
Abraham Lincoln

all were considered crazy.

and if it weren't for them you wouldn't be tapping away at a laptop with your shirt off.

period.

Why do I keep seeing in these pride threads, this idea of "what pride has become," as if it was something different at one time? As someone who came out at 18 and has been going to pride festivals and parades since the 80's, there has always been leather men, dykes on bikes, boys in g-strings atop floats for local bars and clubs, drag queens, and others not afraid of expression, along with the ordinary men and women who would fit in any crowd and made up most of the attendees. If anything, pride today has become more conservative and more mainstream than in the not too distant past. What is this movement to hide certain people from the outside world that not too long wanted us all to be unseen and unheard? Maybe that is the easier answer to gain acceptance in the world at large, but if the easy answer is leaving certain people behind, it's not the answer I want to be part of. Why have ideas like uniqueness and being an individual become something to looked down upon?


Edit- One other thing, notice in your city and towns what these events are called, 'pride parades' and 'pridefests'. In the years after Stonewall, that is what these events began to be called. Parades and festivals are usually something taken less seriously and signify something more celebratory. I've been to marches and protests and those are something different.

Iceblink saidWhy do I keep seeing in these pride threads, this idea of "what pride has become," as if it was something different at one time? As someone who came out at 18 and has been going to pride festivals and parades since the 80's, there has always been leather men, dykes on bikes, boys in g-strings atop floats for local bars and clubs, drag queens, and others not afraid of expression, along with the ordinary men and women who would fit in any crowd and made up most of the attendees. If anything, pride today has become more conservative and more mainstream than in the not too distant past. What is this movement to hide certain people from the outside world that not too long wanted us all to be unseen and unheard? Maybe that is the easier answer to gain acceptance in the world at large, but if the easy answer is leaving certain people behind, it's not the answer I want to be part of. Why have ideas like uniqueness and being an individual become something to looked down upon?

wow.

that kinda says it all.

I don't understand the whole hatin' on Pride thing.
I actually get a thrill seeing how diverse my community is.

Iceblink saidWhy do I keep seeing in these pride threads, this idea of "what pride has become," as if it was something different at one time? As someone who came out at 18 and has been going to pride festivals and parades since the 80's, there has always been leather men, dykes on bikes, boys in g-strings atop floats for local bars and clubs, drag queens, and others not afraid of expression, along with the ordinary men and women who would fit in any crowd and made up most of the attendees. If anything, pride today has become more conservative and more mainstream than in the not too distant past. What is this movement to hide certain people from the outside world that not too long wanted us all to be unseen and unheard? Maybe that is the easier answer to gain acceptance in the world at large, but if the easy answer is leaving certain people behind, it's not the answer I want to be part of. Why have ideas like uniqueness and being an individual become something to looked down upon?


Edit- One other thing, notice in your city and towns what these events are called, 'pride parades' and 'pridefests'. In the years after Stonewall, that is what these events began to be called. Parades and festivals are usually something taken less seriously and signify something more celebratory. I've been to marches and protests and those are something different.

Can we just put this post up every time anyone complains about pride week?

Thank You for this! *claps*

This is why I love RJ.

CuriousJockAZ said

Wolverine4 saidNor, CuriousJockAZ, do I understand why anyone but a hatist would focus on a few guys in jockstraps and convert that to an argument against gay marriage. Unless, that is, they were previously disposed that way and are using the "jockstrap argument" as a pretext.

All I did was point out the reality that "Pride Parades", like it or not, are not something that all gays want as a representation of the community as a whole.

Do Mardi Gras and Hooters represent the straight "community as a whole"?

With so much diversity at Pride, there does seem to be a lot of representation (even if not "as a whole").

See next post....

endo said

We go to Pride every year with a straight couple, and they bring their 2 young daughters. ...they see drag queens dressed as nuns and floats going by filled with boys dancing in their briefs. It's funny, our straight friends don't think these folks cast a negative light on the entire gay community. Why do some gays insist they do?

+100

showme said

maxferguson saidI think the whole concept of gay pride needs rejuvenation. Only being 22, my exposure to pride celebrations has been relatively limited, but I perceive "Pride" celebrations as a very public expression of what society doubts about the gay community, or is unsure about. After the Stonewall Riots, it was about emphasizing that sex (literally) between two men or two women was equally (....more ;p) enjoyable as between a man and a woman and that it was perfectly okay to enjoy it. In simpler terms, it was (or at least in hindsight) an effort to normalize certain aspects of the gay community that made the rest of society uneasy. The result society gradually accepts what pride celebrations are emphasizing.

As a young gay man who is well educated, and who has strong family support, I would love to celebrate things like Christmas and birthdays as an extended family gathering (as my family has in the past) with my future husband and children. My own family would not have a problem at all with this and would be unphased, but imagine if family gatherings around North America were able to enjoy such comfort.

I think the rejuvenation that pride celebrations need must involve emphasis on being able to form and uphold a great family, despite many adverse beliefs. I would love if pride deviated from the leather-bound, feather clad, drunken enthusiasts (and I'll admit, the last pride celebration I went to that fit that description was fun....) and shifted to showing society that this is the next step in the ongoing gay rights movement. Before you know it, just as gay sex acts were once outlawed and are now "legal" (not even recognized a legal matter?), adoption and other child bearing methods will be fully legalized.

If I could have one wish for the gay community, it would be to take pride in showing society that the the only difference between gay and straight is between the sheets and not between hearts.

Sometimes younger guys think they invented water. Aren't the majority of pride marchers in most places still religious groups, family groups, political groups, cultural groups? I sent several years in DC marching with a gay couples group, back when we were much less visible, and we never failed to get huge cheers. The bar floats with the gogo boys are fun, but they aren't everything.

Well, contrary to professing what Pride ought to be (inventing water...), I qualified that my experience at pride festivals was limited and that this was my perception. I'm thinking more along the lines of Toronto and Vancouver pride. In these cities there is little left to prove and the people who object to gay rights or a "gay lifestyle," are generally small groups who keep quite or wind up embarrassing themselves. Perhaps a better backdrop would be my own town, Calgary. Pride hasn't really taken off as a big thing here until the last year or two (although there have been festivals, I'd liken them to the "roman candle" when they could have made much better fireworks). Last year, our Mayor, Naheed Nenshi, a practicing Muslim, marshaled our pride parade. He, not unlike Obama, said things and did things that broke the ice for the otherwise unaware public. The fact that he was Muslim had little to do with it relative to his simple attendance and active participation in Pride events (genuine participation... no cameras), but it caught the public's eye. Now Calgary has other festivals like "Fairy Tales," an LGBT film festival which has grown immensely in popularity over the past three years.

I suppose my point was not to spell out what pride ought to be, but to show that it is a highly effective tool in facing challenges in gay rights and moving gay rights forward through time; it could have been any issue at the heart of the matter, not just family. I thought the advancement of the public acceptance that a gay family is still a family would be one of the next big challenges.

I have not been to a pride parade in over 10 years. I have nothing against them. In general, I think they are mostly a good thing. Pride festivals and parades are occurring Worldwide and they are still expanding. They tend to be one of the first public events that the gay community does in many countries. In some countries, people are doing it even though they have been threatened with violence.

In California, I know that the local news makes a good effort to make sure that they cover the pride parades in the area. I have actually been pretty impressed by how they have been reporting them as well. They generally talk about how popular they are, some of the organizations involved, as well as the many people having a good time.

maxferguson saidI suppose my point was not to spell out what pride ought to be, but to show that it is a highly effective tool in facing challenges in gay rights and moving gay rights forward through time; it could have been any issue at the heart of the matter, not just family. I thought the advancement of the public acceptance that a gay family is still a family would be one of the next big challenges.

First of all, let's be honest here: Calgary is not a real place. You made it up.

CrankySpice said

maxferguson saidI suppose my point was not to spell out what pride ought to be, but to show that it is a highly effective tool in facing challenges in gay rights and moving gay rights forward through time; it could have been any issue at the heart of the matter, not just family. I thought the advancement of the public acceptance that a gay family is still a family would be one of the next big challenges.

First of all, let's be honest here: Calgary is not a real place. You made it up.

Suppose I made it up years ago, but the idea was catchy and people got serious about it and made it happen ;)