RealJock - Gay Fitness, Health, and Life

FORUMS > All Things Gay Forum Rules

TRACK THIS
REPLY
Sort by:
Do you consider Obama black or white?
Hidden/Deleted Member
Aug 01, 2008 7:21 PM GMT
Quote
Regardless of your personal beliefs, the reality is that the man is no more black than he is white. His genetic makeup is no more sub-Saharan African than it is western European. Yet, despite this fact, many continue to refer to Obama as an "African-American", despite the fact that this is only marginally true.

Why disregard the man's European ancestry? It's true, he may have dark skin and kinky hair, but the man is not an "African-American" in the true sense of the word.

As a member of the same ethnic makeup as Obama, I find it interesting that the mainstream media has designated Obama as a black man and nothing else. To me, it's concordent with the "one drop rule" of the past and other forms of ethnocentrism and ignorance in an attempt to maintain racial heirarchy.

Why don't people of mixed racial ancestry have a say in the matter? If Obama called himself white he'd be no more wrong than if he called himself black, because the truth of the matter is that he's neither. Yet, if he did this, I bet people would be willing to object, yet don't object to him being called black.

So the reality here is that Obama won't be the first black President, he'll be the first mixed race President. I don't understand why that concept is so hard for some to grasp....
SurrealLife Posts: 4496
Aug 01, 2008 7:44 PM GMT
Quote
A human male with a caucasian mother and a african father. Being Canadian this sort of conversation does not happen as much.
GuiltyGear Posts: 2904
Aug 01, 2008 8:00 PM GMT
Quote

I think this subject is stretching itself beyond belief. You said yourself the man is both and since Black America is experiencing a great shortage of good black role models, I beg you, "Can we please have him?"
PLEASE!
SurrealLife Posts: 4496
Aug 01, 2008 8:03 PM GMT
Quote
GuiltyGear said
I think this subject is stretching itself beyond belief. You said yourself the man is both and since Black America is experiencing a great shortage of good black role models, I beg you, "Can we please have him?"
PLEASE!



Well I can't see him doing as bad a job as the incumbent. It would be a refreshing change if the US elected someone that was not WASP (and this is coming from a WASP). Not because there is anything wrong with being WASP, but the USA like many other countries is very diverse. It is not healthy in a democracy for one particular group to feel they are entitled to be the power brokers.
Jsttennis77 Posts: 838
Aug 01, 2008 8:05 PM GMT
Quote
Honestly I don't really give it much of a thought. I guess if pressed I'd say I consider him bi racial.

Do you think that someone like Jesse Jackson would let him get away with making his european ancestry more pronounced? I tend to believe that the media is trying there best to be as P.C. knowing this particular topic in America is a damned if you do damned if you don't type of situation.

Someone will get offended along the way. Instead of focusing on the mans workability where ethnicity shouldn't be a factor it becomes a deterrent. Instead of trying hard to unite this messed up nation it could become a catalyst to divide.

Hopefully the greater masses don't see color or ethnicity. Hopefully they look much deeper and reach for what really counts.
HighVoltageGu... Posts: 1306
Aug 01, 2008 8:08 PM GMT
Quote
I consider him a man. Thread over!
TallGWMvballe... Posts: 897
Aug 01, 2008 8:10 PM GMT
Quote
Very interesting.

Ethnically, racially he IS a 50/50 blend... perhaps and hopefully he is the best of both and can be a strong force to bring the waring parties together,
Black and White in America have a long and mostly bad history.
I certainly hope, wish and support that Obama will be a NEW breed in every sense of that word; a new Powerful force which we have never seen before.

Perhaps he is "The One" to help us all work towards seeing we are on this ride together and we need eachother.


Black, White, or someone else is way less important than what he brings to the table; something new, something fresh, intelligent and honest.

Let him be a great role model for people of ALL races!
spryte21 Posts: 348
Aug 01, 2008 8:13 PM GMT
Quote
You could probably put Barak in the same catergory as Tiger Woods

EDIT: before anyone takes this the wrong way, I am refering to the term "multi-racial"
LalaPaulooza Posts: 556
Aug 01, 2008 8:18 PM GMT
Quote
spryte21 saidYou could probably put Barak in the same catergory as Tiger Woods

EDIT: before anyone takes this the wrong way, I am refering to the term "multi-racial"



PHEW! i thought you were trying to label him a successful, multi-millionaire athlete.
Kozmeka Posts: 503
Aug 01, 2008 8:21 PM GMT
Quote
Are you serious! WTF is up with these forums!
joggerva Posts: 513
Aug 01, 2008 8:25 PM GMT
Quote
neverfollow86 saidmany continue to refer to Obama as an "African-American", despite the fact that this is only marginally true.

Why disregard the man's European ancestry? It's true, he may have dark skin and kinky hair, but the man is not an "African-American" in the true sense of the word.


His father is African, and his mother is American; I'd say he has a pretty good claim to the term African-American if he wanted.
GeorgeE Posts: 250
Aug 01, 2008 8:25 PM GMT
Quote
I think if a man or women is bi racial, they should not have to pick a race and say that is what they are. I think bi racial people are really beautiful. I just think it is sad when they are expected to identify with one race. I’m Irish and English but I am not expected to choose to be one or the other. I just don't get it. Why can't he just say he is bi racial and leave it at that?
auryn Posts: 1609
Aug 01, 2008 8:42 PM GMT
Quote
This is part of what Barack had to say when confronted about not being on top of Black Issues recently:

"That doesn't mean I am always going to satisfy the way you want these issues framed... which gives you the option of voting for somebody else, it gives you the option of running for office yourself, those are all options. But the one thing I think is important is, that we are respectful towards each other. And what is true is that the only way we are going to solve our problems in this country is if all of us come together, black, white, Hispanic, Asian, Native American, young, old, disabled, gay, straight... that has got to be our agenda."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/01/obama-heckled-for-not-foc_n_116308.html

Race is an issue, but it's not the main one. We can't hide from it, as in the past, and we'd be dumb to think that someone isn't going to bring it up again and again. It's not the main issue, though.
BlkMuscleGent Posts: 389
Aug 01, 2008 8:50 PM GMT
Quote
neverfollow86 saidRegardless of your personal beliefs, the reality is that the man is no more black than he is white. His genetic makeup is no more sub-Saharan African than it is western European. Yet, despite this fact, many continue to refer to Obama as an "African-American", despite the fact that this is only marginally true.


Claiming that any reference to Obama as African American is "marginally true" is patently illogical, for as you've stated Obama is half-black and half-white. For the sake of discourse, let's be fair and accurate .


neverfollow86 saidWhy disregard the man's European ancestry? It's true, he may have dark skin and kinky hair, but the man is not an "African-American" in the true sense of the word.


Although I recognize the need for one to acknowledge one's ancestral origins completely, I find it both naive and, to an extent, impractical to dismiss readily the notion that Obama might be African American. After all, the one-drop rule is still a part of our current zeitgeist. And if I recall correctly, Obama himself identifies as African American.


neverfollow86 saidAs a member of the same ethnic makeup as Obama, I find it interesting that the mainstream media has designated Obama as a black man and nothing else. To me, it's concordent with the "one drop rule" of the past and other forms of ethnocentrism and ignorance in an attempt to maintain racial heirarchy.

Might it be more accurate to describe yourself as a member of the same genetic makeup--not ethnic makeup--as Obama? The word "ethnic" connotes customs and social views, and Obama's customs and social views largely mirror those of an African American, not a biracial individual with no ethnic-specific loyalties. As regards the "one-drop" rule, I recognize its merits and demerits, but would rather not debate them in this thread--not now, anyway.

neverfollow86 saidWhy don't people of mixed racial ancestry have a say in the matter? If Obama called himself white he'd be no more wrong than if he called himself black, because the truth of the matter is that he's neither. Yet, if he did this, I bet people would be willing to object, yet don't object to him being called black.

To an extent, people of mixed racial ancestry do have a say in the matter. Consider Tiger Woods, who identifies himself as Caublasian. The media accepts it; I have no issue with it. Yet in the political arena things are different: politicians cannot transcend race as easily as athletes can. Race and politics are generally concomitant, which makes it more difficult for mixed-race individuals to publicly present themselves as having no ethnic-specific loyalties. In fact, mixed-race individuals with high political aspirations must navigate the political arena with the skills of a master trapeze artist. How well as Obama performed? This remains to be seen.

neverfollow86 saidSo the reality here is that Obama won't be the first black President, he'll be the first mixed race President. I don't understand why that concept is so hard for some to grasp....

This is one way to look at it. It is legitimate. For me, however, I see Obama, the son of an African man and a Caucasian woman, as an African American solely because of his choice to identify as such, though I suspect that his mixed-race background has been a boon thus far. Nevertheless, I'm unsure that he'll become our next President.
bmwneeded Posts: 3
Aug 01, 2008 8:50 PM GMT
Quote
The reason why he is referred to as the black candidate goes back to the 1 drop rule. That is: ONLY one drop of African blood within your DNA makeup is enough for one to be considered black and be subject to the Jim Crow Laws that existed at the time.

Today it is PC to say biracial however, when people are press to pick one race or another, most people tend to say what they usually see - black.

Now, I am not to saying that all people today will say and or choose one race verses the other; I am saying people see a black man before them and so a black he will be. No one would automatically think that his mother was white if they did not know his family background.

Those who can true see pass black and or white are those who have had more exposure to persons who are biracial and/or the way one may have been raised with diverse leaning parents.
geras Posts: 90
Aug 01, 2008 8:52 PM GMT
Quote
I consider him one thing; cunning. I think he is next step in the evolutionary path he shares with the Clintons.

This election is interesting, liberals eat up the latest packaging of a sleazy politician and conservatives see their candidate as a difference slice of the same cake. It would be funny if it weren't so important.
ricecakemagic Posts: 18
Aug 01, 2008 9:00 PM GMT
Quote
one drop rule. isn't it great?
america has some obsession with
labeling people.
i forgot what the case court case
was but does anyone know of the kid
in louisianna that was 1/256th black?
the child was blonde hair, blue eyed
and the case had to be taken to court
because of the American's obsession with
labeling. RIDICULOUS!!
McGay Posts: 3220
Aug 01, 2008 9:02 PM GMT
Quote
If he was in uptown Manhattan after midnight trying to get a cab (and he was unknown), he'd be black. I'm sure the guy has experienced anti-black discrimination. He certainly is now.
ricecakemagic Posts: 18
Aug 01, 2008 9:04 PM GMT
Quote
but i do get a bit peeved when the media
and general public refer to him as black.
the first black candidate..the first black president.
makes me want to open palm slap my forehead.
there making such a big deal out of it people seem distracted by his different look rather be interested
in what he can potentially do for America.
McGay Posts: 3220
Aug 01, 2008 9:06 PM GMT
Quote
Whatever he is, I wish he was more handsome. I think it'd more easily garner him the shallow vote and the shallow vote makes up at least 80% of the voting American public.
auryn Posts: 1609
Aug 01, 2008 9:12 PM GMT
Quote
McGay saidWhatever he is, I wish he was more handsome. I think it'd more easily garner him the shallow vote and the shallow vote makes up at least 80% of the voting American public.


We should be allowed to text our votes like on American Idol.
McGay Posts: 3220
Aug 01, 2008 9:13 PM GMT
Quote
Then in that case, we should get Simon, Paula and Randy to judge the candidates on live TV. Screw the debates.
Ducky44 Posts: 940
Aug 01, 2008 9:14 PM GMT
Quote
Obama himself refers to himself as African American and that is the only thing that matters.


Actucally he is more African American than those of us who have been born state side because of his African Hertiage.

He's proud of both.

In this country if you have 1% of African American, Latino, Asian...are a consider that race.

If you go back and read about the colonial period during the slave trade in this country it is explained rather clearly.

I was born Cuban and African American but I look more African American than I do Cuban but I am proud of both.


Race will always be an issue in this country and those think diffreny is not living in the real world.

If Obama is elected the racial tensions in this country who magically go way were talking over 300 years of it's not going to go way over night.
PHLmuscle8 Posts: 304
Aug 01, 2008 9:14 PM GMT
Quote
RunintheCity saidBecause his race is being defined BY OTHERS, he is LABELED as black.

The only and real answer to this question is the answer Mr. Obama himself provides to whomever asks.



RUNintheCITY has it right. We must answer/define ourselves. Mr. Obama is no different. ASK HIM! Don't ask us.
sxypalestinia... Posts: 1865
Aug 01, 2008 9:17 PM GMT
Quote
The Sub-Saharan region is also known as Black Africa, in reference to its "Black" populations, in contrast to the "Caucasoid" inhabitants of North Africa. He is half Black and half White. His mother is a White American, while his dad is from Kenya. I won't consider him White or Black, he is mixed race or Other.
McGay Posts: 3220
Aug 01, 2008 9:21 PM GMT
Quote
It'd be cool if Cher were to become first lady or veep.

Half Breed - Cher


My father married a pure Cherokee
My mother's people were ashamed of me
The indians said I was white by law
The White Man always called me "Indian Squaw"

CHORUS:
Half-breed, that's all I ever heard
Half-breed, how I learned to hate the word
Half-breed, she's no good they warned
Both sides were against me since the day I was born

We never settled, went from town to town
When you're not welcome you don't hang around
The other children always laughed at me
"Give her a feather, she's a Cherokee"

Repeat Chorus

We weren't accepted and I felt ashamed
Nineteen I left them, tell me who's to blame
My life since then has been from man to man
But it can't run away from what I am

Repeat chorus
joeindallas Posts: 442
Aug 01, 2008 9:22 PM GMT
Quote
He is Human and the best candidate in the Race. No bashing Hillery, but he took on a force thur logic disabled it. Qualities we need in a President in teh 21 Century
GuiltyGear Posts: 2904
Aug 01, 2008 9:27 PM GMT
Quote

The one drop rule can't really apply here. I'd say HALF is a hell of a lot more than one drop. I mean his skin is brown and you can see his package through trouser fronts. He's BLACK and that ain't WHACK!
sxypalestinia... Posts: 1865
Aug 01, 2008 9:43 PM GMT
Quote
Is that true all Black people wish Obama is 100% Black? hehe
GuiltyGear Posts: 2904
Aug 01, 2008 10:07 PM GMT
Quote

hehe....no we don't. I'm sure he'll prove perfectly satisfactory the way he is now, thankyou.

................................
Hidden/Deleted Member
Aug 01, 2008 10:15 PM GMT
Quote
It's true that Obama does identify himself as black, and it's also true that we should respect his decision, however, I suspect his personal identification is based largely on how he was received and perceived by others.

And yeah, it's also true that he definitely has more than "one drop" - the man is half black. But, it seems as though anyone with any negligible non-white ancestry is deemed a part of that group without reference to their white ancestry.

I just think that's ignorant as it perpetuates the notion that if one isn't "pure white", than they cannot claim any white heritage.

Interestingly, that's only the case when the person is white and something else. If the person is black and Asian, for instance, I find that the person is often labeled which group they more resemble; Kimora Simmons is black/Asian but most would call her Asian, whereas Tiger Woods is the same, yet most would label him black.
Justjohn Posts: 390
Aug 01, 2008 10:16 PM GMT
Quote
GuiltyGear said
I think this subject is stretching itself beyond belief. You said yourself the man is both and since Black America is experiencing a great shortage of good black role models, I beg you, "Can we please have him?"
PLEASE!



Well, yes, but we're keeping eminem.

Regardless of his ethnic background, redneck America sees, and will continue to see him as "that black guy running for president." I really would like to see him win on so many levels and I think he has a good chance. What I don't envy is his burden as a role model. He will be ruthlessly scrutinized for any flaw throughout his entire tenure.
Barricade Posts: 347
Aug 01, 2008 10:18 PM GMT
Quote
I think Obama would have corrected the media if he had issue with being considered african american. Hell, there are still people who wanna call him a muslim. Not to go off subject, it is good to see a forum discuss anything racial without it turning ugly(a la Perezhilton.com)
Hidden/Deleted Member
Aug 01, 2008 10:19 PM GMT
Quote
JustJohn said
GuiltyGear said
I think this subject is stretching itself beyond belief. You said yourself the man is both and since Black America is experiencing a great shortage of good black role models, I beg you, "Can we please have him?"
PLEASE!



Well, yes, but we're keeping eminem.

Regardless of his ethnic background, redneck America sees, and will continue to see him as "that black guy running for president." I really would like to see him win on so many levels and I think he has a good chance. What I don't envy is his burden as a role model. He will be ruthlessly scrutinized for any flaw throughout his entire tenure.


Ha that reminds me of when CNN was going to small town America and asking people who they planned to vote for. This white working class guy said something to the effect of, "I don't think a black man can be President...the only black man I've seen with change has a cup in his hand".

And then it struck me, there are some really ignorant people out there.
GuiltyGear Posts: 2904
Aug 01, 2008 10:26 PM GMT
Quote
But he claims his "white" heritage all the time when he refers to his mother and the education he received from her.

The man is very intelligent, but that isn't particulalry a white trait. I think Obama proves that.
I'm getting from you that you think white is better than black? Unfortunately, the STEREOTYPE of your common black gets me in that state of thinking often.

However, when I realize I smash all those negative stereotypes and am still black makes me feel good.I think this is Obama's feelings because more than the man's skin is black; a lot of his other features are too: his nose, his lips, that package. Really, this is my personal opinion, but he'd look really foolish trying to pass for white.

At the end of the day, he is not white, but he is black because black comes in so many shades and so many flavors. Infact, these days, most black people are a mixture of something. Take me for instance, my grandmother was biracial...this makes me....still black and inspite of the stereotype: I'm proud of it. because one day, white people with one drop of brown will be clamoring to have it recognized. This will happen. But right now, I totally understand the stigma "naugtha mean?"
Hidden/Deleted Member
Aug 01, 2008 10:28 PM GMT
Quote
I'm for the third unwritten choice. He's of mixed heritage and race, just like me and lots of other people in the united states. I don't think he should lose any credibility from either side of his heritage because of it's shared with another. He's person just like everyone else and is more than the sum of his parts.
mjime003 Posts: 71
Aug 01, 2008 10:37 PM GMT
Quote
I agree with neverfollow86 in that this is interesting, but I feel it isn't important. Whether or not we want to get past the race issue, this is America, and unlike other countries that would sweep it under the rug, we love controversy, and we aren't afraid to talk about it!

Obama will be labeled whatever people want him to be. I have the same issue being half mexican and half other. I look white, and therefore, everyone treats me as though I am white. My sister looks more mexican, so she gets labeled as mixed race or even sometimes as a latina. I do not! Sometimes I get kind of mad about it, but as we start mixing more and more, this will continue to become a nonissue. I think Obama will be the first test case that involves the entire nation. True, their have been actors and other notable individuals that have been of mixed race, but none that has the possibility(hopefully!) of leading our entire nation. This should be an interesting few months if anything!
Hidden/Deleted Member
Aug 01, 2008 10:37 PM GMT
Quote
Human.

(Because I can't see the difference between black white red or yellow)
auryn Posts: 1609
Aug 01, 2008 10:38 PM GMT
Quote
Maybe we shouldn't worry so much about his ethnicity. Maybe we should do as the Wall Street Journal has done today, and worry that he may be too physically fit to be President.
BlkMuscleGent Posts: 389
Aug 01, 2008 10:40 PM GMT
Quote
neverfollow86 said
Interestingly, that's only the case when the person is white and something else. If the person is black and Asian, for instance, I find that the person is often labeled which group they more resemble; Kimora Simmons is black/Asian but most would call her Asian, whereas Tiger Woods is the same, yet most would label him black.


Tiger Woods ain't black! Didn't you read my previous post?
Caslon8000 Posts: 8134
Aug 01, 2008 10:48 PM GMT
Quote
He defines himself as Black, I believe. I accept what he says. But I dont care.
docmarvy Posts: 101
Aug 01, 2008 10:51 PM GMT
Quote
He's Mocha Frappuccino!


And that Frappuccino has my vote.
Hidden/Deleted Member
Aug 01, 2008 11:04 PM GMT
Quote
He's post-racial. I doubt he would never even feel the need to comment on his ethnic heritage if someone didn't reference it every 30 seconds.
AMT87 Posts: 717
Aug 01, 2008 11:10 PM GMT
Quote
The fact that feel the need to debate if he should be allowed to claim he's black shows how ingrained racial motives are in the presidential election.


Do you feel cheated that you believe he is gaining influence using a claim of race and if people knew "this secret'they would change their perspective.
If they were making a truly informed decision they should know anyway and it shouldn't be relevant.

The only thing that should be in the mind of an intelligent voter should be where he stands on the issues relevant to them and his potential as a leader
nabob7729 Posts: 47
Aug 01, 2008 11:17 PM GMT
Quote
spryte21 saidYou could probably put Barak in the same catergory as Tiger Woods

Multi- or Bi-racial, yes. Tiger Woods once called himself a Caublasian or something to that effect. [Thanks BlkMusclGent for bringing that term to light again]. Tiger Woods does not embrace his black heritage. Barak Obama is a true African American in the literal sense - White US mother and Kenyan [African] father.

Most of his early life was spent being exposed to cultures that exist outside the U.S. That gives him a broader experience of what life has to offer with regard to race and culture. He tends to identify himself in the classic African American tradition. He's earned the right to define the way he views himself whether or not he falls outside this tradition. Bottom line is that he is neither black nor white, but it's his decision how he identifies and our job is to respect that decision.
orthojock Posts: 496
Aug 01, 2008 11:19 PM GMT
Quote
GuiltyGear said
I think this subject is stretching itself beyond belief. You said yourself the man is both and since Black America is experiencing a great shortage of good black role models, I beg you, "Can we please have him?"
PLEASE!
GuiltyGear Posts: 2904
Aug 01, 2008 11:20 PM GMT
Quote

Tiger is Calblasian!

And what is race, but a series of physical traits, that is all it is unless you believe that some races are smarter or genetically predestined to have better physical ability.

With that said: yes, Kimora Simmons is considered Asian BECAUSE SHE LOOKS ASIAN. And Tiger Woods, looks black...so what? What further claim would either have to these races besides that races traits? It's heritage, it's history, pish posh, both are doing quite well as what they are.
orthojock Posts: 496
Aug 01, 2008 11:21 PM GMT
Quote
spryte21 saidYou could probably put Barak in the same catergory as Tiger Woods

EDIT: before anyone takes this the wrong way, I am refering to the term "multi-racial"


And do you remember the backlash Tiger received when he identified himself as a multiracial human being?
orthojock Posts: 496
Aug 01, 2008 11:28 PM GMT
Quote
But if Kimora is asked she refers to herself as black!
eckilegs Posts: 130
Aug 01, 2008 11:45 PM GMT
Quote
Umm...............He's Both.
GuiltyGear Posts: 2904
Aug 01, 2008 11:45 PM GMT
Quote

She does? We've had Kimora all this time and I didn't know it? Cool, she pretty.
Hidden/Deleted Member
Aug 01, 2008 11:47 PM GMT
Quote
Does it really matter?? To be honest with you, I haven't even thought of that "issue" until the media began hyping it up. People should really start using their brains for once when it comes to politics and vote for the right reasons (ie. PLATFORM) and not on feelings.
DenverClimber... Posts: 78
Aug 01, 2008 11:56 PM GMT
Quote
Regardless of what you consider him, the majority of United States citizens regard him as African American. Considering his father is from Nigeria, you might have a difficult time convincing people otherwise.
Hidden/Deleted Member
Aug 01, 2008 11:59 PM GMT
Quote
UMMMMMM...that's because he IS of African decent. Is it that difficult?
ITJock Posts: 1229
Aug 02, 2008 12:27 AM GMT
Quote
It is the 21st century.

Does it matter to anyone who is not a bigot?

The only person whose opinion or label should matter is Obama's himself.
jakebenson Posts: 810
Aug 02, 2008 12:28 AM GMT
Quote
Obama is what I call "mixed" or a "mutt." I laugh when people say he's black.
iLore Posts: 2
Aug 02, 2008 12:54 AM GMT
Quote
jakebenson saidObama is what I call "mixed" or a "mutt." I laugh when people say he's black.



I agree- I would say he is mixed. I think because of his physical features, people are more inclined to just label him African American/Black.
BlkMuscleGent Posts: 389
Aug 02, 2008 1:26 AM GMT
Quote
jakebenson saidObama is what I call "mixed" or a "mutt." I laugh when people say he's black.


I laugh when people like you disregard his right to define himself in a society where little things like ancestry, ethnicity, nationality, etc., mean much.

He identifies as African American. So does Halle Berry.

Get real! Get over it!
incrediblehol... Posts: 76
Aug 02, 2008 4:38 AM GMT
Quote
I definitely consider Obama to be African American since that is what he considers himself to be. As far as I am concerned, it is as simple as that! GO OBAMA!!!!
Tom
ShawnTX Posts: 2158
Aug 02, 2008 4:41 AM GMT
Quote
How about just consider him a person?
Hidden/Deleted Member
Aug 02, 2008 6:19 AM GMT
Quote
I told a friend of mine maybe 10 years ago that the whole black/ white thing was irrelevant. Not socially, but genetically. He could not have disagreed with me more. He is not a racist at all, very liberal and has no problems with race at all. In fact, he just adopted a bi-racial child that is the love of his life, and mine as I am her godfather and "uncle".

I just think that in this day and age, knowing what we know about DNA and genetics, that the old idea of race is silly. Race is silly. It is a concept from way back before modern science, genetics, and more importantly DNA. What is the difference between me and a black man? Maybe one gene out of thousands and thousands? Why does that mean anything to anyone? I have genes different from total white guys like me? Why do we care about that gene and not others? I have brown eyes and somebody has blue eyes, another gene difference. Who cares?

Barack has one parent from America and one born in Africa? Who cares? I care about who he is, what he thinks, what his values are. What else matters? To me, race is an old concept that has been discredited by science. We are all a mix of hundreds of thousands ancestors.
Delivis Posts: 405
Aug 02, 2008 6:27 AM GMT
Quote
Do you think Obama's eyes are black or just really really deep brown. Lets spend 50 posts discussing this and not his ideas.
TD22 Posts: 872
Aug 02, 2008 7:10 AM GMT
Quote
DenverClimber3 saidRegardless of what you consider him, the majority of United States citizens regard him as African American. Considering his father is from Nigeria, you might have a difficult time convincing people otherwise.

Get it fecking right his father was Kenyan not Nigerian? And he was born in Hawaii hows that and i am not even American?
TD22 Posts: 872
Aug 02, 2008 7:12 AM GMT
Quote
When people stop talking about Black and White maybe we can all live together in peace and harmony!

I am more black that BO now because I have been lying in the sun so hows that WTF!
looknrnd Posts: 617
Aug 02, 2008 7:33 AM GMT
Quote
I'm much more concerned about someone's character, not the color of his/her skin. What does it matter what he is labeled? Labels themselves are the problem. His race or religion is of no concern to me as long as he's a good person and ready to clean up the mess our current government has made. We shouldn't question where he fits in, but should instead question and educate those whose opinions are affected by either.
Maverick75 Posts: 354
Aug 02, 2008 8:25 AM GMT
Quote
Being someone with a biracial heritage and growing up in white South Dakota, I'm considerably more conservative than other minorities, including the GLBT community. But growing up I also saw the issues of both cultures and getting caught in that crossfire, I can understand Obama's position and significance. Physically, I see Obama as black, but I also sense he had a strong white upbringing. He symbolizes the idea that not all blacks fit the stereotypical gangsta from the hood type. He did grow up abroad with his mom, and even lived with his maternal grandparents for awhile. He didn't grow up in the "hood" like a lot of blacks do in this country. So he has a very different life experience than may blacks in the US. Life experience makes us who we are. What you look like in the US is a large part of that experience. I was the only the Asian male in my class, growing up, I never had any Asian role models growing up who were not a stereotype of the Asian male. Some whites accepted me as part of the group, some didn't. There was always a few whites who would help me stand up for myself when I needed to. I adopted a white outlook on things, it helped me pass thru those racial barriers in my hometown. After leaving home, joining the military and encountering other minorities, I often found myself at odds with them, because they perceived me as being too white (blacks)or too Americanized (other Filipinos and Asians), and I perceived them as having that racial chip on their shoulder. I did what I was expected to do, and I excelled in it too. Some minorities, including women wouldn't do the work I did because of that chip on their shoulder. The gay community bars have been somewhat different than the white community I grew up and worked in. Stereotypically Asians are great at cleaning house, So I get to wait tables at the bars. The few times I get to bartend, the "HotShots" of the community like to tell me "I can so see you as more of a waiter, I just can't see you as a bartender." And that's while I'm making their fucking drinks. I only need to look in the mirror to know why they say that. Or maybe I'm just really that good at it. if so why should that hamper a better job opportunity?
Oddly enough, really wasn't until I worked in the gay community and being on the internet years ago that I started pursuing my Filipino heritage. It wasn't until I had a black friend and a hispanic friend at the gay bars who stood up for me, that I couldn't finally explore a side of my heritage I wished at onetime would just disappear.
I hope Obama becomes President, I feel like I can identify with his issues. He's a talented, smart, and educated man and constantly judged based on his looks. If he identifies as black, good for him and the black community. They need the help and the realization that a black or other minority can be President. He could do so much for the psyche of the American minority just by being elected President.



gawd I have a headache, i think i still have a little captain morgan in me too.
ActiveAndFit Posts: 2834
Aug 02, 2008 8:44 AM GMT
Quote
I don't really think about it. But I know he is bi-racial, but have heard him refer to himself as black or african-american. I am fine with whatever he chooses to identify with.

Being bi-racial myself I am never sure what to check in the ethnic category on these sites. I like gay.com where you can select as many as you want. Here I can do White or Latino or Mixed. what the hell is Mixed? a Martguerita mix? A fruit swirl? In truth we are all probably more mixed than we realize despite our appearance.

As far as skin pigment, there is only melanin which is brown. We have more or less, but we are all shades of the same color. We all have red blood, etc.
Hidden/Deleted Member
Aug 02, 2008 8:58 AM GMT
Quote
I consider him black....because he is...isn't he?

I also consider him the next president of the USA.

Why was it ok for Pres. Kennedy in the 60's to have charm, grace, style, intelligence and wit, (Camelot) but now the same qualities are being considered bad for Obama?
Hidden/Deleted Member
Aug 02, 2008 9:03 AM GMT
Quote
I will not vote or not vote for Obama because he is Black or White or mixed or whatever. I just don't like him. I think he is totally unqualified to lead the most powerful nation in the Free World. He barely won the primaries in Chicago, he only won because the Democratic rival he was running against got caught up in a scandal, then the Rebublican got caught up in a scandal. He was losing his own Democratic primary, then he got very lucky that the Rebublicsn candidate got caught up in a scandal. Then he ran against Alan Keyes, the only person that the Republicans could find at the last minute to run against him, and he won. Except for his opponents getting into scandals, he would not have even been close to getting a Senate seat. He beat Alan Keyes, a total lunatic. Then he serves one term in the senate, where he did next to nothing, following his terms in the state house of Illinois, where he did next to nothing.

I love his speeches. He is so eloquent. Who is he?
CuriousJockAZ Posts: 2341
Aug 02, 2008 9:12 AM GMT
Quote
He's black, but that doesn't matter one way or the other to me. I find him pompous and way under-qualified to be President. Not even convinced he's that great of a Senator.
GQjock Posts: 3846
Aug 02, 2008 11:35 AM GMT
Quote
HighVoltageGuy saidI consider him a man. Thread over!


When I saw this that's EXACTLY what I thought

.... HE LOOK LIKE A MAN Thank you Ms Swan

">
alexander7 Posts: 640
Aug 02, 2008 11:56 AM GMT
Quote
I have never heard of this one drop thing until I read this thread. One drop in science is generally accepted as 10 microlitres. Of course, it depends upon the size of the hole at the tip of the dropper. Anyway, that means that, in general, each person has 560,000 drops of blood at any one time. So, by this one drop idea, if you have 1/560,000 black blood in you, you are black. If you accept the theory that we all sprung from Lucy (the Australopithecus found in Kenya) and her friends and relatives, then, sorry, all you sorry ass white guys, you and I are all black.

However, if you do not accept the theory about Lucy, (and we are talking about a guy in America here) please consider the fact that while Americans owned all those slaves and even after they were free, there was a lot of “inter-racial” hanky panky going on. In the years since there has been a lot of moving around from state to state. If your DNA were studied, are you absolutely positive that you are 100% white?

This is all just absurd of course. I have purposefully made it that way. This whole idea of black and white is absurd.
orthojock Posts: 496
Aug 02, 2008 12:01 PM GMT
Quote
CuriousJockAZ saidHe's black, but that doesn't matter one way or the other to me. I find him pompous and way under-qualified to be President. Not even convinced he's that great of a Senator.


How do you define a "great senator?"...by length of service in the senate? Provide me with an example of who you would consider to be a great senator!....Trent Lott?...Strom Thurmon?....Kay Bailey Hutchinson?...Ted Stevens? Larry Craig?
muchmorethanm... Posts: 2814
Aug 02, 2008 12:02 PM GMT
Quote
Archie Bunker from "All in the Family" would affectionately call him a zebra.
bgcat57 Posts: 1040
Aug 02, 2008 12:51 PM GMT
Quote
The ssue of the original question of is he black or white, is like someone asking you "Are you male or gay". The idea of any 'purity of race' is perpetuated by many cultures.
My ancestry (only to the level of grandparents) would saw that I'm 3/4 Irish and 1/4 Bavarian.
If I see a form that asks my 'race' I only answer it if it doesn't mix race with cultures. I don't consider myself Irish-American or Bavarian-American since I was not born in either of those countries.
There are many friends and acquaintances who are 'black' who refer to themselves as 'African-American' which has two flaws in the statement. First, it presumes (by my reckoning) that they were born in Africa and moved to the US and/or that they're ancestry was African (when it may never have been).
While you can say that if you trace back far enough - all who are black eventually trace back to Africa, then you might as well carry the argument all the way and realize that all us Homo Sapiens came from Africa.
While physiological attributes have genetic components, it's already been proven that there is no 'black gene'.

I, myself, refer to myself as Bob. I hesitate to even say American, given the last eight years. Segregation of a community whether it's self imposed and empowered or designated by others is forcibly limiting.

I'm not advocating the elimination of cultural traits, artifacts and rituals, and total assimilation (We are the Borg.) I think that it would be better to see differences as only that, and not place qualitative ratings on the attributes of a different culture (e.g. worship as or if you want to, but do not proselytize.) I realize that it is a tall order to ask that, but it seems to me to be the most effective way to get the best of diverse cultures/races/groups without pitting one against another for superiority. The biggest obstacle is that many if not most of these cultures/races/groups teach within their own groups, a rationale of superiority, either blatantly or subtly.

The only true enemy is ignorance. Unfortunately, the US, being one of the richest countries in the world, the abundance of ignorance is a great resource that is take advantage of by a few very powerful groups.
TigerTim Posts: 950
Aug 02, 2008 2:01 PM GMT
Quote
Obama, hopefully, might well be postracial. I strongly suggest to everyone that you are too.

Black/White --- why not just be yourself?
CuriousJockAZ Posts: 2341
Aug 02, 2008 2:12 PM GMT
Quote
orthojock said
CuriousJockAZ saidHe's black, but that doesn't matter one way or the other to me. I find him pompous and way under-qualified to be President. Not even convinced he's that great of a Senator.


How do you define a "great senator?"...by length of service in the senate? Provide me with an example of who you would consider to be a great senator!....Trent Lott?...Strom Thurmon?....Kay Bailey Hutchinson?...Ted Stevens? Larry Craig?




Well, let's start with any senator who has spent more time being a senator than he/she has spent running for President. Not that this would make any of them a "great" senator, but certainly a senator whose track record in the senate, experience being a senator, and accomplishments as a senator for not just one term, but several terms, would lend itself to talking on the immense responsibility of Commander in Chief and President to the most powerful country on earth.


Just a side note, and certainly just because TIME magazine says it doesn't make it the gospel or unbiased, but TIME magazine's pick as America's "Ten Best Senators" are:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1184028,00.html

Thad Cochran
Kent Conrad
Dick Durbin
Ted Kennedy
Jon Kyl
Carl Levin
Richard Lugar
John McCain
Olympia J. Snowe
Arlen Specter

Why is Senator Obama not on this list? Could be a variety of reasons, not the least of which may be that TIME magazine is pro-McCain, though I kind of doubt that. More likely Obama isn't on this list because he lacks the time spent in the Senate and experience that would warrant it. His accomplishments as a senator are minimal at best because most of the time he's been a senator he's been busy running for President.
SinNombre Posts: 358
Aug 02, 2008 2:22 PM GMT
Quote
One thing that is very interesting about this thread is the white perception of race and the non-white (especially black) perception of race.

"Let's just look at people as people..." blah blah blah..."his color/ancestry doesn't matter" blah blah blah. I find this very interesting that it's typically whites that say this sort of statement.

Anybody else notice that? I'm just sort of empirically looking at the thread not really trying to say one thing or another.

Let me get back to studying for my test. Adios.
BabiGayPimp Posts: 165
Aug 02, 2008 2:32 PM GMT
Quote
I know Obama is mixed but I think of him as black because of the way he carries himself out in the society. He always emphasized his African heritage.
CuriousJockAZ Posts: 2341
Aug 02, 2008 2:41 PM GMT
Quote
In2LectualBlkMan saidOne thing that is very interesting about this thread is the white perception of race and the non-white (especially black) perception of race.

"Let's just look at people as people..." blah blah blah..."his color/ancestry doesn't matter" blah blah blah. I find this very interesting that it's typically whites that say this sort of statement.


Maybe it's because whites are trying to drive the point home that his race isn't an issue (at least not to those of us who have posted here). You add "blah - blah - bah" as if you're not buying the fact that many whites don't find the color of Obama's skin a factor at all.
sai0201 Posts: 31
Aug 02, 2008 2:52 PM GMT
Quote
lol
he is between white & black i think
his color is just right i like it.
BlkMuscleGent Posts: 389
Aug 02, 2008 4:20 PM GMT
Quote
CuriousJockAZ said
In2LectualBlkMan saidOne thing that is very interesting about this thread is the white perception of race and the non-white (especially black) perception of race.

"Let's just look at people as people..." blah blah blah..."his color/ancestry doesn't matter" blah blah blah. I find this very interesting that it's typically whites that say this sort of statement.


Maybe it's because whites are trying to drive the point home that his race isn't an issue (at least not to those of us who have posted here). You add "blah - blah - bah" as if you're not buying the fact that many whites don't find the color of Obama's skin a factor at all.


I don't buy it. This is America--NOT HEAVEN! We're flawed human beings--NOT PERFECT ANGELS!

I would love for race not to matter, but we are not there--yet. The evidence is everywhere. Look at REALJOCK!
Hidden/Deleted Member
Aug 02, 2008 5:12 PM GMT
Quote
I consider him half black and half white like myself.
metta8 Posts: 288
Aug 02, 2008 5:40 PM GMT
Quote
Being biracial myself. I consider him to be biracial as well. I guess it is fine to use the term hapa as well.
sxypalestinia... Posts: 1865
Aug 03, 2008 9:47 AM GMT
Quote
That is funny... Cher's father is Middle Eastern. Well I guess you can say Middle Eastern is Caucasian race.
alexander7 Posts: 640
Aug 03, 2008 10:09 AM GMT
Quote
In2LectualBlkMan saidOne thing that is very interesting about this thread is the white perception of race and the non-white (especially black) perception of race.

"Let's just look at people as people..." blah blah blah..."his color/ancestry doesn't matter" blah blah blah. I find this very interesting that it's typically whites that say this sort of statement.

Anybody else notice that? I'm just sort of empirically looking at the thread not really trying to say one thing or another.

Let me get back to studying for my test. Adios.


If you are not trying to say one thing or another, why does what you have written come across so loud and clear?

I agree, you have made a correct distinction. This is basically a difference between those of us who see ourselves as coming from the oppressors and those of us who see ourselves coming from the oppressed. The psychological differences and the differences that makes in real lives are profound. That is not to say that either viewpoint should be overly critized if one is trying to make amends or the other is viewing their position as one of pride.

I think it is possible, although sometimes difficult, for GLBT people to understand the role of the oppressed.

If you want to be prideful in the idea that you are a person of colour, black, whatever, go for it. However, the end result of that evolutionary step must be the realization that we are all the same and at the same time all different, all 6 billion of us.
Hidden/Deleted Member
Aug 03, 2008 11:15 AM GMT
Quote
HighVoltageGuy saidI consider him a man. Thread over!


One thought that it was only when the Mormon prophet spoke, it was only then, that the debate was over.
Hidden/Deleted Member
Aug 03, 2008 11:21 AM GMT
Quote
It really does not mater to me, as one would only vote Republican! But hay, he's done his job, as he got old Iron Knickers out of the race, and away from the White House.

To me color is of no issue. It makes no difference if he's black or white; shame he's not a Republican.
HndsmKansan Posts: 3143
Aug 03, 2008 2:07 PM GMT
Quote
Who cares what he is? I'm more interested in what he can do for this country as President of the US.
fluxu8 Posts: 370
Aug 03, 2008 7:44 PM GMT
Quote
I met him in Illinois with some other people for coffee. He is a VERY intelligent man and so clear minded. I was so taken with his thoughts and expression of them. I didn't even see him as black or white becuase I was just so impresssed with the person that he is. So to me, the question is mute.
sxypalestinia... Posts: 1865
Aug 03, 2008 7:44 PM GMT
Quote
HndsmKansan saidWho cares what he is? I'm more interested in what he can do for this country as President of the US.


ditto!
BabiGayPimp Posts: 165
Aug 05, 2008 3:38 AM GMT
Quote
Inspired by this thread, I took another, more discerning look at "Oblackma" and I just get the strongest "brotha" vibes coming off him...
Hidden/Deleted Member
Aug 05, 2008 4:30 AM GMT
Quote
I consider Barack Obama to be himself. As a presidential candidate, I expect him to be more than white or black. He should be more than a man or a woman.

Honestly though, I don't really ever think that there will be a president that didn't come from privilege. Barack is related to George W. Bush (at a distance). For all of those that think that he is most certainly African American in upbringing and culture, you have to look at those who raised him. Barack was raised by his WHITE mother and his WHITE grandmother.

I don't think it matters what people are though. It really is about what they can and will do. Unfortunately, there isn't a candidate for the two big parties that is very supportive of gays.
a1972guy Posts: 1980
Aug 05, 2008 4:33 AM GMT
Quote
First and foremost, he's a Grandson. Secondly he's a son. Third, he's a father! He's a man who is of mixed race/ethnicities and is running for office. A man who has a youth filled with different cultural experiences and education and maybe JUST maybe that's a DAMN GOOD thing!!
HighVoltageGu... Posts: 1306
Aug 05, 2008 4:38 AM GMT
Quote
Pattison said
HighVoltageGuy saidI consider him a man. Thread over!


One thought that it was only when the Mormon prophet spoke, it was only then, that the debate was over.


Then paint me a Mormon prophet. LOL!
Hidden/Deleted Member
Aug 05, 2008 4:45 AM GMT
Quote
Okay, I'm going to put it this way:

OBAMA IS A POLITICIAN.

If Obama thinks that he can get a large portion of blacks to vote for him, of course he is going to embrace African American culture. Hey, don't think I'm crazy, it worked for Bill too.

I think we are a long way away from finding a president who honestly cares about the people and isn't getting into the race for airtime or the furthering of their own political agenda. With race being such a big issue in this election, the two frontrunners don't even have to focus on big issues. They can simply be and they will get votes based on A.) being a republican or democrat; or B.) being White or Black.

It doesn't matter what his ethnicity is because what it really comes down to is that he belongs to the same privileged group as McCain. He isn't some hip, youngin' with new ideas to change the world. He is a well spoken, debating politician from Illinois with the ability to rally thousands of A-listers and nobodies alike to wear shirts bearing his name.

I don't really have faith in either candidate, so I'm hoping they prove me wrong.
Hidden/Deleted Member
Aug 05, 2008 5:16 AM GMT
Quote
HighVoltageGuy said
Pattison said
HighVoltageGuy saidI consider him a man. Thread over!


One thought that it was only when the Mormon prophet spoke, it was only then, that the debate was over.


Then paint me a Mormon prophet. LOL!

which one?
Over the past 150+ years, there's been a number of em; but all white.
smthbear808 Posts: 83
Aug 21, 2008 6:52 AM GMT
Quote
I dunno, theres just something Kennedy-esque about him, Obama. Met McCain...not impressed. Met Obama very intelligent and down to earth but not a strong opponent of gays really. So, lets see until there is a current non-white candidate for Mormon prophet ....hmmm Im gonna go for OBAMA! Yeah and why hasn't there been a non-white for a Mormon prophet?
Answer by Molly Mormon: Well geez, fetch were just not ready! My good heck!
muchmorethanm... Posts: 2814
Aug 21, 2008 1:40 PM GMT
Quote
GuiltyGear said
I think this subject is stretching itself beyond belief. You said yourself the man is both and since Black America is experiencing a great shortage of good black role models, I beg you, "Can we please have him?"
PLEASE!



Okay, for you sweet P, he's African American. I just love it when a man begs.....
XRuggerATX Posts: 2835
Aug 21, 2008 2:06 PM GMT
Quote</