Obamacare becomes Obamatax

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    Jun 28, 2012 8:57 PM GMT
    The day is getting better by the hour. Good analysis here:

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/28/obamacare-becomes-obamatax/

    By Neil Munro, 06/28/2012

    The Supreme Court handed a courthouse victory to President Barack Obama on Thursday, but also gave him another campaign-trail problem.

    The already unpopular 2010 health care reform law has been converted by the court into a $1.76 trillion tax increase funded by escalating taxes to be paid the vast majority of taxpayers.

    GOP officials are pushing this Obamacare-to-Obamatax pitch, and are suggesting that the tax will further stall the economy.

    “Do we think [the Obamacare tax] is going to help economic growth? … it is one more piece of evidence that the Obama administration is hurting our economic growth,” Florida Republican Sen. Marco Rubio told Fox News.

    Recent polls show the law is supported by roughly 40 percent of the population, but is opposed by roughly 55 percent.

    The vast majority of the law’s existing supporters likely will vote for Obama in November, regardless of the court’s decision.

    But opponents of the law include a critical slice of the critical swing-voting bloc.

    Polls show the swing-voters are already leaning against Obama because of the stalled economy, high unemployment and record deficits.


    However, many of these swing-voters are not ready to back Republican candidate Mitt Romney, partly because of their cool attitude to Romeny’s stiff personality and their worries about his hard-nosed but profitable business practices.

    By formally converting “Obamcare” into “Obamatax,” the court allows Republicans to argue that Obama violated his 2008 pledge to not raise taxes on middle-class Americans.

    “I can make a firm pledge — under my plan, no family making less that $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase,” he said in a September 2008 campaign speech in New Hampshire.

    He spoke at a podium carrying a placard saying “Tax Relief for the Middle Class.”

    Prior to the law’s passage in 2010, Obama also denied it was a tax. In September 2009, Obama told ABC that the law “is absolutely not a tax increase.”

    In a midday statement, Romney called on voters to help him replace the tax.

    “Obamacare raises taxes on the American people by approximately $500 billion dollars [and] cuts Medicare by approximately $500 billion dollars,” he said in a TV statement with Congress in the background.

    “Obamacare [adds] billions to our national debt and pushes obligations to oncoming generations… [it] means for up to 20 million Americans they will lose the insurance they currently have,” he said.

    “Obamacare is a job killer… and perhaps most troubling of all, Obamacare puts you between the federal government and your doctor,” he said.

    Romney pledge to replace Obama’s law with one that protects Americans’ freedom and health.

    “We have to make sure people who want to keep their current insurance will be able to do so… we’ve got to make sure that those people who have preexisting conditions know that they will be able to be insured… We also have to assure that we do our very best to help each state in their efforts to assure that every American has access to affordable health care,” he said.

    “If we want good jobs and bright economic future for ourselves and for our kids, we must replace Obamacare… Help us defeat Obamacare. Help us defeat the liberal agenda that makes government too big, too intrusive and is killing jobs across this country,” he said.

    “ObamaCare is the president’s signature legislative ‘achievement’ [but] The Obama campaign knows it’s a losing issue, and the polls show it,” said a midday statement from the Republican National Committee.

    Voters in the critical state of Ohio voted against the law in 2010, while polls show the law is unpopular in other swing-states, said the RNC.

    Majorities in Florida, Ohio and Iowa disapprove of the law, said the memo. Pluralities in New Hampshire and Pennsylvania oppose the law, the memo said.

    Only small minorities in Wisconsin, North Carolina and Nevada believed the law to be constitutional, said the memo.
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    Jun 28, 2012 11:37 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidYep. 21 new taxes now in effect - 12 of which are on those making less than $200k.

    Tax increases, the economy, and an unpopular law are helping with the election. I don't think Roberts' aim was political, but he has given the right a huge gift.
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    Jun 28, 2012 11:45 PM GMT
    SoCal !!! don't you love it when a tax like this under Obamacare ends up being less in the long haul than the alternative of not having insurance and ending up losing everything to pay Medical Bills. Sounds like the Public wins on this one.
  • jock_1

    Posts: 1492

    Jun 29, 2012 1:17 AM GMT
    Yep, O-blame-a has said over and over this would not be a tax on the American people. LIAR! Democrats just this this huge entitlement will be paid for out of thin air? Doesnt work that way.

    Please Mr. Romney, these idiots are giving you all the tools you need to hammer them over the head with....USE THEM !!
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    Jun 29, 2012 1:26 AM GMT
    jock_1 you should really read this: Romney's health care reform

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_health_care_reform
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    Jun 29, 2012 1:26 AM GMT
    jock_1 saidYep, O-blame-a has said over and over this would not be a tax on the American people. LIAR! Democrats just this this huge entitlement will be paid for out of thin air? Doesnt work that way.

    Please Mr. Romney, these idiots are giving you all the tools you need to hammer them over the head with....USE THEM !!


    Idiot Romney is the architect of the plan! Haha!
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    Jun 29, 2012 1:38 AM GMT
    I will include a few comments with minor updates I made in that other thread.
    *********************************************
    I would have definitely preferred it to have been struck down, and the stock market agrees which has just dropped over a hundred points.

    I think there are longer term issues that will play out and those who agree with me will have to forgo immediate gratification for what I think will be long term gratification.
    *********************************************
    First, it takes away the position that the left had already taken that the court was a Republican Party arm and that an Obama reelection is important to return the court to a balance via future selections. This is significant.

    The ruling does spare Obama from an immediate embarrassment, so he did dodge a bullet. And the left can celebrate that.

    I believe the celebration will ultimately be brief because it will significantly energize the opposition. The measure remains unpopular, and polls indicate those strongly oppose outnumber those strongly support 2 to 1. A sleeping giant has been awoken. This may turn out to be the best thing for the GOP with its significant advantage in funding the election campaign.

    The ruling does not imply the law is appropriate, good policy, or economically sound. What will energize the opposition are the words from Justice Kennedy: "The act is invalid in its entirety." Given Kennedy is considered a moderate, his words will have significant weight.
    *********************************************
    The CBO is going to do analysis on the resulting costs based on the Court decision. The costs advertised at the time of the law's passing had already been discredited based on clearly contrived assumptions that the Democrats forced on the CBO. Those assumptions also included an economy in much better shape than it is now and is projected to be, so the revenue will be much less. I think it is clear that the results of the upcoming analysis will not be good at all, and this will play into the economic issues, which remain the biggest problem for Obama.

    As much as I would have preferred a different decision for the immediate gratification, I agree with the assessment that the continuing unpopularity of Obamacare, its economic impact aggravating an already difficult situation, and the economy in general will put Obama in even greater peril come November.
    *********************************************
    Romney campaign has taken in over $ 4.2 million dollars within the first 24 hours of the decision.

    States no longer have the threat to lose funding if they did not expand their Medicaid programs, so they have little incentive to do so, putting even more burden on the Federal Govt.

    More insurance companies had been holding off, now will likely raise premiums.

    Employers may now start dumping employees preferring to pay the fine instead.

    Current polls show overall unpopularity at 60%, likely to increase even though some like a few provisions.

    Assessments are while the White House is relieved, Obama Hdqts very concerned. They hoped the issue would go away and Obama could focus on rallying his base. Now instead, Romney has rallied a huge segment.

    Romney's past in Massachusetts seen by most as irrelevant as Obama sitting in Rev Wright's church for 20 years. All that is relevant is what he will do and the fear that a second Obama term will cement a massive entitlement whose costs will be projected to skyrocket.

    The continued uncertainty means business will continue to delay hiring, and the economy will remain flat, further sucking the air out of Obama's campaign.
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    Jun 29, 2012 1:41 AM GMT
    No ones cares if it's a tax or a mandate.

    It's constitutional. End of story.

    You lost. Get over it.
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    Jun 29, 2012 1:49 AM GMT
    Christian73 saidNo ones cares if it's a tax or a mandate.

    It's constitutional. End of story.

    You lost. Get over it.

    You're so upset I don't usually respond to you so here's a bone:

    I agree it is constitutional per the Supreme Court . But it's not the end of the story but the beginning of the story. A sleeping giant has been awoken. Team Obama probably would have preferred this was discarded so they could focus on rallying the base. Now with an unpopular law, and more numbers to come out making it even more unpopular, he's got some problems.

    Do people care if it is a tax? A tax on the middle-class? You don't mind because there is no tax you don't love, but we will see how this plays out. Did not work so well for Bush the first. Read the other messages in this thread, then take your Aspirin.
  • jock_1

    Posts: 1492

    Jun 29, 2012 1:54 AM GMT
    Christian73 saidNo ones cares if it's a tax or a mandate.

    It's constitutional. End of story.

    You lost. Get over it.


    I just usually ignore your posts but you are an idiot! people sure do care if its a tax!
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    Jun 29, 2012 3:31 AM GMT
    The teabaggers don't like the word tax so here in Florida they call everything a "FEE".
    They seem to stupid to understand their candidates elected are enacting many new "FEES" everywhere they can.
    I am one of the people in Florida who has a private United Healthcare policy which will be getting a large (haha doubtful) rebate for my premiums paid as directed in the Obamacare.
    I pay $755.00 a month currently to United Healthcare for a single person private policy. Then I have the annual deductible and 80/20 plan until I hit a large out of pocket. I pay my way, but golden gym numb nut doesn't and breaks a tendon on a work out at 31 he has no insurance and causes everyone to pay for him. How come he is 31 making 40 K a yr selling used cars and doesn't choose to get a private policy like me for 9 K a yr. He can afford it now he needs months of therapy and care for his blown tendon. We all suffer...........
    Well they haven't been using all that big ass premium they collect on medical care more goes to the CEO. So the order is a rebate in a month.
    Now the lobbyist pushed hard to the bought pussy licking ass sucking Republicans that run our corrupt government (like medicare fraud crook Gov from Hell Rick Scott, who the dumb fucks elect and he is a whale shit at best). agreed to exclude Florida residents from receiving this rebate to what they paid in and wasn't spent for medical services. Of course thats all history after today.
    So you have to spend money on the policy and its services not on CEO pay checks.
    This goes back to Jan 2011. I haven't seen a rate increase since 2010 when they were jacking up my policy 70 - 95 bucks a month yearly. How come it stopped after "obamacare" was enacted?
    Further my limits are gone, preventable testing, vaccines, increases and caps removed from mental also are in place already.
    I finally got a flu shot and UHC covered it, never before would they cover it but they would cover a couple trips to the Doctor when I got the flu and became unproductive.

    You minons spewing your typical teabagger cut & paste bullshit spam emails cc. to everyone in your address book don't what the fuck you are talking about and I think you need to find out as I will with time.

    This may not be a bad thing your heartless muscle bound meat puppets. Someday your flabbing biceps will be wheeled up in a hospital or nursing home and looking like a melting candle you will exhaust your estates quickly on $100 pills you take by the boat load and nurse wiping your ass as you fade away and you deserve what everyone else in America should have, adequate humane coverage with general and basic health cost covered.
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    Jun 29, 2012 4:06 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 saidNo ones cares if it's a tax or a mandate.

    It's constitutional. End of story.

    You lost. Get over it.

    You're so upset I don't usually respond to you so here's a bone:

    I agree it is constitutional per the Supreme Court . But it's not the end of the story but the beginning of the story. A sleeping giant has been awoken. Team Obama probably would have preferred this was discarded so they could focus on rallying the base. Now with an unpopular law, and more numbers to come out making it even more unpopular, he's got some problems.

    Do people care if it is a tax? A tax on the middle-class? You don't mind because there is no tax you don't love, but we will see how this plays out. Did not work so well for Bush the first. Read the other messages in this thread, then take your Aspirin.


    First, the law is not "unpopular." In fact, most aspects are incredibly popular, across party lines. Now, the one argument that the Romney campaign had, it's alleged "unconstitutionality" is shown to be ludicrous.

    Second, it's a "tax" only for those who have the means to purchase insurance but choosenot to. That is not the vast majority of Americans. I happen to know quite a few people who currently pay for their own health insurance mostly through the Freelances Union. Most of them, will now get support from the government to purchase that insurance.

    Don't you recall SB's hysterical screeds about how people earning up to $80,000 were getting free money to purchase insurance?
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3287

    Jun 29, 2012 4:14 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 saidNo ones cares if it's a tax or a mandate.

    It's constitutional. End of story.

    You lost. Get over it.

    You're so upset I don't usually respond to you so here's a bone:

    I agree it is constitutional per the Supreme Court . But it's not the end of the story but the beginning of the story. A sleeping giant has been awoken. Team Obama probably would have preferred this was discarded so they could focus on rallying the base. Now with an unpopular law, and more numbers to come out making it even more unpopular, he's got some problems.

    Do people care if it is a tax? A tax on the middle-class? You don't mind because there is no tax you don't love, but we will see how this plays out. Did not work so well for Bush the first. Read the other messages in this thread, then take your Aspirin.


    First, the law is not "unpopular." In fact, most aspects are incredibly popular, across party lines. Now, the one argument that the Romney campaign had, it's alleged "unconstitutionality" is shown to be ludicrous.

    Second, it's a "tax" only for those who have the means to purchase insurance but choosenot to. That is not the vast majority of Americans. I happen to know quite a few people who currently pay for their own health insurance mostly through the Freelances Union. Most of them, will now get support from the government to purchase that insurance.

    Don't you recall SB's hysterical screeds about how people earning up to $80,000 were getting free money to purchase insurance?


    Majority decision said it is a Tax , The law was essentially rewritten by the judges to say it is a tax.

    Therefore needing only 51 senators a majority of House of Rep to gut the bill and defend it. ( plus a republican president)

    The Chief Justice rejected the "Commerce Clause argument"

    "The Constitution grants Congress the power to “regulate Commerce.” Art. I, §8, cl. 3 (emphasis added). The power to regulate commerce presupposes the existence of commercial activity to be regulated. If the power to “regulate” something included the power to create it, many of the provisions in the Constitution would be superfluous...."

    This I will call the "gift of Roberts". All of the hair-brained future libera schemes and Pelosi's argument on the law now belong in the toilet.
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    Jun 29, 2012 4:22 AM GMT
    I'm all for paying more tax if it means I'm getting something for my money. I can't imagine any amount of tax that would rival what we have to dish out for medical insurance! Hell, I'm never sick and hardly ever see a doctor except for annual checkups and I still pay out the nose to these crooks.
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    Jun 29, 2012 9:07 AM GMT
    Joe Trippi, Democratic Strategist on Hannity: Today the Democrats breathed a sigh of relief, the Republicans breathed fire.

    Dick Morris: Today will be seen as as the worst day not the best day for the Obama Campaign.

    The anger from 2010 has been rekindled and the results from 2010 will be magnified. A sleeping giant is awake. The questions about the Tea Parties losing steam, giving Obama more time to complete his transformation to a Socialist Nanny State, are in the background, replaced by red hot anger.

    The questions about what happened in Massachusetts and who said what don't matter to the voters. Not one bit. Voters don't care about the past, as evidenced by ignoring Obama in Wright's church or his cocaine use.

    What will matter is Obamacare, the lies from Obama saying it is not a tax, the Democrats in Congress getting it passed saying no tax then arguing the opposite in Court. The Lies and the Taxes.



    http://www.peoplevobamacare.com/
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    Jun 29, 2012 10:10 AM GMT
    jock_1 said
    Christian73 saidNo ones cares if it's a tax or a mandate.

    It's constitutional. End of story.

    You lost. Get over it.


    I just usually ignore your posts but you are an idiot! people sure do care if its a tax!


    Yes they do, that we are sure of.
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    Jun 29, 2012 10:22 AM GMT
    Christian73 saidNo ones cares if it's a tax or a mandate.

    It's constitutional. End of story.

    You lost. Get over it.


    But the things is not is all lost; there is still hope. All it will take to overturn Obamacare, now is by voting out Obama and winning the Senate. it's time to vote for representatives who vow to get rid of Obamacare.

    If this is to come to pass, you will just have to get over it, and suck it up.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jun 29, 2012 1:23 PM GMT
    Shakespeare said it Best

    What's in a name?

    That which we call a Mandate?
    By any other name Smell as Sweet?


    icon_cool.gif

    You're playing semantics because you freakin lost your argument guys
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    Jun 29, 2012 1:24 PM GMT
    All the sleazy deals that got people so angry before and have been temporarily forgotten have come back front and center. Obamacare in particular got people so angry at the grass-roots level. Add to that the lies from Obama and Democrats that the mandate was not a tax, then argued just the opposite in court. Semantics? No. A tax is a tax.

    Cornhusker kickback, Louisiana Purchase....

    Compare that with Obama having to defend all the increased costs, higher insurance premiums, the taxes, yes taxes, all the news. Will be on the defensive. Will he able to keep his composure with his notorious thin skin?

    Romney campaign has taken in $4.2 million since the decision was announced, and that does not even begin to cover the contributions to the Super PACs. Consider all the grass roots Tea Party rallies in 2010, add to that more anger and a determination to get Obama out and take a majority in the Senate, all with a massive support from well funded campaign sources.

    Going to be an exciting summer.
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    Jun 29, 2012 1:29 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    You're so upset I don't usually respond to you so here's a bone:

    LMAO.. I think its YOU John that is 'upset'.. listen to you!

    Im rolling on the floor laughing at your seething anger!
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Jun 29, 2012 1:42 PM GMT
    It should be interesting in November to see if the adage "You have to lose a few battles to win the war" applies. I find all of this sort of mind-numbing. It's hard to tell if yesterday's ruling will ultimately help Obama, or if it will be the final nail in his and his administration's coffin. People are fired up, The Tea Party is pissed, and that is never good for the Democrats. The timing of all of this leading up to the conventions, the debates, and the election could not have been better.
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    Jun 29, 2012 1:52 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidIt should be interesting in November to see if the adage "You have to lose a few battles to win the war" applies. I find all of this sort of mind-numbing. It's hard to tell if yesterday's ruling will ultimately help Obama, or if it will be the final nail in his and his administration's coffin. People are fired up, The Tea Party is pissed, and that is never good for the Democrats. The timing of all of this leading up to the conventions, the debates, and the election could not have been better.


    Y are they so mad? The law hasnt changed. The only thing that has changed is the Republicans self delusions that Obama violated the constitution. Now reality has set in... He hasnt and never did.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Jun 29, 2012 2:02 PM GMT
    catfish5 said

    Y are they so mad? The law hasnt changed. The only thing that has changed is the Republicans self delusions that Obama violated the constitution. Now reality has set in... He hasnt and never did.


    Whether Obamacare is constitutional or not is beside the point, and actually a moot point now. The Supreme Court has quite cleverly crafted this response to have far-reaching repercussions down the road --- which will ultimately prove to be a good thing. The Supreme court ruled that Obamacare was constitutional, NOT that it was good policy or good for the country --- and there is a HUGE difference. Roberts said himself that "If we want better policy, elect better politicians". The November elections will show if Americans took the hint.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3287

    Jun 29, 2012 2:11 PM GMT
    catfish5 said
    CuriousJockAZ saidIt should be interesting in November to see if the adage "You have to lose a few battles to win the war" applies. I find all of this sort of mind-numbing. It's hard to tell if yesterday's ruling will ultimately help Obama, or if it will be the final nail in his and his administration's coffin. People are fired up, The Tea Party is pissed, and that is never good for the Democrats. The timing of all of this leading up to the conventions, the debates, and the election could not have been better.


    Y are they so mad? The law hasnt changed. The only thing that has changed is the Republicans self delusions that Obama violated the constitution. Now reality has set in... He hasnt and never did.


    Read the decision , the Supreme Court closed the hole on the initial basis for the law. Mainly its power via commerce clause to compel behavior. Only via the tax is it possible and that's why the Govt lawyers argued it was a tax.

    "The Constitution grants Congress the power to “regulate Commerce.” Art. I, §8, cl. 3 (emphasis added). The power to regulate commerce presupposes the existence of commercial activity to be regulated. If the power to “regulate” something included the power to create it, many of the provisions in the Constitution would be superfluous...."

    I am fine with the Supreme Court decision. The more I think about it , Roberts is right. The Supreme Court is not charged with saving us from poorly written laws or dishonest politicians.

    We didn't need a Supreme Court to draft a declaration of Independence.

    The President is going to have trouble on saying it is NOT A TAX.
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    Jun 29, 2012 2:19 PM GMT
    musclmed saidI am fine with the Supreme Court decision. The more I think about it , Roberts is right. The Supreme Court is not charged with saving us from poorly written laws or dishonest politicians.

    We didn't need a Supreme Court to draft a declaration of Independence.

    The President is going to have trouble on saying it is NOT A TAX.

    I am fine with the decision. While I would have preferred immediate gratification seeing it thrown out, in the long run, the decision will be a major factor in November.

    It should be noted that the Government argued in court that it was a tax, despite both Obama and Congressional Democrats saying it wasn't.

    As you pointed out, tax issues can be dealt with via a simple majority. Also limiting the use of the commerce clause is most significant. While I believe Roberts acted in good faith, one troubling aspect as noted by the dissenting opinion was the activism in re-writing the law to make it consistent with tax determination. The Judicial Branch I thought was not supposed to write laws, only interpret them. But not worrying about this. The path forward now is political.