Why is it that.......

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    Jul 03, 2012 9:20 PM GMT
    306758_10150919159336275_1147575425_n.jp
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    Jul 03, 2012 11:21 PM GMT
    This is the equivalent of asking someone "when did you stop beating your wife?". Most of it is easily demostrably factually incorrect. But if you're too uninformed to actually fisk it here's a start -

    Why is it that... When the government gives tax money to profitable oil and energy companies it is "capitalism" but when they give tax money to wind or solar manufacturers it is "socialism"


    First, it's useful to note that oil and gas companies (you do realize of course that wind and solar are "energy"?), actually pay tax. They pay a lot of it. Let's look at the facts:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2012/04/16/which-megacorps-pay-megataxes/
    "ExxonMobil in 2011 made $27.3 billion in cash payments for income taxes. Chevron paid $17 billion and ConocoPhillips $10.6 billion. And not only were these the highest amounts in absolute terms, when compared with the rest of the 25 most profitable U.S. companies, the trio also had the highest effective tax rates. Exxon’s tax rate was 42.9%, Chevron’s was 48.3% and Conoco’s was 41.5%. That’s even higher than the 35% U.S. federal statutory rate, which is already the highest tax rate among developed nations."

    Second, the word that's generally used to describe tax breaks for corporations for many especially in the tea party movement is "crony capitalism" - in addition to "socialism". This is because quite coincidentally I'm sure, these companies that get financed by your government often pay their execs millions and who happen to be well connected to Democrats or the current Administration.
    - http://reason.com/archives/2012/06/18/rio-20-earth-summit-green-crony-capitali
    - http://www.naturalnews.com/035196_crony_capitalism_green_firms_bankruptcy.html
    - http://www.againstcronycapitalism.org/2012/03/green-graft-one-of-the-best-breakdowns-of-green-energy-crony-capitalism-we-have-seen/

    There are a lot more links where that came from.

    Why is it that... when right wing groups protest our government and President it is "protecting our freedoms" but when left wing groups protest against the banking industry and it's influence on our government, they are labeled a "terrorist organization"?


    Wrong again. The Southern Poverty Law Center - which is often cited by leftwing groups has called tea party groups hate groups. Further, despite the fact that it attempts to track violent and "hateful" groups, it has claimed "it isn't set up to cover the extreme Left."

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/not-really-set-up-to-cover-the-extreme-left-southern-poverty-law-center-explains-why-it-doesnt-track-occupy-as-a-hate-group/

    Tea partiers that are labelled by Democrats as being "right wing" actually find common groupd with their OWS counterparts in their disdain over the bailout of the banking industry and subsequent banking bonuses.

    But let's look at the difference in the actual violence between these two leading groups on the issue:
    tea%20party%20vs%20occupy%20unpatriotic2

    And this doesn't even include a recent bomb plot that was foiled by OWS protesters.

    Why is it that... when British Petroleum's Deepwater Horizon disaster is still fresh, and despite scientists worldwide warning of the effects of fossil fuels on our Earth, it is "drill baby drill!"... but when someone releases a study on bird deaths and temperature rise near wind generators and you call them bird blenders and cry "global warming"


    You must have missed the good news - US gas emissions have fallen to 1991 levels and is anticipated to fall a lot further because of shifting energy production and improved efficiencies - how is that energy trading working out elsewhere and how far have carbon emissions fallen there?
    http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/07/more-shockingly-good-news-from-the-shale-gas-revolution-co2-emissions-will-likely-fall-this-year-to-1991-levels/

    As for them bird blenders, what's the point if they cost significantly more without any actual benefit except for the friends of politicians who own them and their lobbyists while driving up the cost of electricity for everyone?

    Why is it that... When the Republicans cut ggovernment jobs across the country it is OK because they are cutting Government debt, but when Democrats raise taxes on the wealthy to pay down the debt it is not OK because raising taxes on the rich might cost us jobs?


    Do you actually believe that government jobs are equivalent to private sector jobs? Do you know what the experience of the British has been from increasing taxes on the rich? Do you not see that as a risk? Why would the first solution be to raise taxes before considering the containment of spending given higher than historical spending (as % of GDP)?

    The problem with the deficit is a spending problem not a tax problem:
    spending-problem-11-4-11.jpg

    Why is it that... when the last 3 Republican administrations have added $9,515,990,000,000 to the National Debt we should vote Republican in order to bring down our debt?


    You do realize that the Obama Administration over his 4 years has already spent 25% more than Bush's 8 years combined?
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    Jul 04, 2012 12:50 AM GMT
    David4985 said306758_10150919159336275_1147575425_n.jp





    To your first point Riddler leaves out that these Oil Corps beat all records for profits in recent years and there is absolutely no reason to keep giving them 'corporate welfare'/ 'subsidies' at the expense of our tax payers.

    To your second point Riddler left out that by far the far right has been involved in much more 'terrorism' that any left leaning groups. The supposed OWS 'bomb plot' just so happened to be suggested, encouraged and prodded by a 'right wing plant'. as with several supposed 'terrorist plots' that the FBI were involved in. I guess they feel the need to make things happen to justify their 'fighting terrorism' jobs

    To your third point, Right wingers don't believe in global warming because as one Congressmen quoted scripture and then ignorantly pronounced on the House Floor, "God said he'd never destroy the earth again, so man cannot destroy it, God has prvided an endless supply of 'oil' resources". And of course God is always right, and God is on their side, so they cannot be wrong, so hell with science, to them their God trumps science. How do you deal with such ideological ignorance ? There is no reasoning with these right wingers and their gods that cannot be seen, heard or contacted. LMAO

    To your fourth point, The Right Wingers song and dance about not taxing the job producers ignores 10 years of no job improvement for all those promised jobs from the Bush tax cuts. They ignore that our economy was much much more vibrant when higer taxes were being levied on the top 1% prior to bush, and Bush has the worst record of job creation since the depression.

    To your fifth point, The Right Wingers voting Republican totally ignore all the debt that Bush wars and policies added that created a downward ever growing spiral of debt and loss of revenue, and that the republicans have done their level best to block any and all efforts to alleviate the problem. The party of no has succeeded in causing the problem, then blaming the victims for it. Its an old propaganda trick.

    Republicans say government doesn't work, then they do everything they can to get control of government and proceed to enact policies that show exactly why it doesn't work. They are the reason it doesn't work. They are the party of No, No progress, No compromise, No Changes to the status quo, No help for those who need it, but give to those who don't, No to new research for renewable sources of power, No to cuts in Military interventionis policies, No to health care for all and the list of NO's is nearly endless.

    The far right leading the republicans tell us they're for freedom, but want to control what we do in our bedrooms and what a woman can do with her uterus, they want to bring our nation back to god to limit civil rights in order to receive his blessing, because we miss gods blessings by allowing gays in the military. Such are the republican party of far right fanatics, in whose hands we will come far closer to losing our freedoms than ever would happen from the left. Anyone would have to be blind not to see where this is heading under the republicans.
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    Jul 04, 2012 12:57 AM GMT
    realifedad said
    David4985 said306758_10150919159336275_1147575425_n.jp





    To your first point Riddler leaves out that these Oil Corps beat all records for profits in recent years and there is absolutely no reason to keep giving them 'corporate welfare'/ 'subsidies' at the expense of our tax payers.

    To your second point Riddler left out that by far the far right has been involved in much more 'terrorism' that any left leaning groups. The supposed OWS 'bomb plot' just so happened to be suggested, encouraged and prodded by a 'right wing plant'. as with several supposed 'terrorist plots' that the FBI were involved in. I guess they feel the need to make things happen to justify their 'fighting terrorism' jobs

    To your third point, Right wingers don't believe in global warming because as one Congressmen quoted scripture and then ignorantly pronounced on the House Floor, "God said he'd never destroy the earth again, so man cannot destroy it, God has prvided an endless supply of 'oil' resources". And of course God is always right, and God is on their side, so they cannot be wrong, so hell with science, to them their God trumps science. How do you deal with such ideological ignorance ? There is no reasoning with these right wingers and their gods that cannot be seen, heard or contacted. LMAO

    To your fourth point, The Right Wingers song and dance about not taxing the job producers ignores 10 years of no job improvement for all those promised jobs from the Bush tax cuts. They ignore that our economy was much much more vibrant when higer taxes were being levied on the top 1% prior to bush, and Bush has the worst record of job creation since the depression.

    To your fifth point, The Right Wingers voting Republican totally ignore all the debt that Bush wars and policies added that created a downward ever growing spiral of debt and loss of revenue, and that the republicans have done their level best to block any and all efforts to alleviate the problem. The party of no has succeeded in causing the problem, then blaming the victims for it. Its an old propaganda trick.

    Republicans say government doesn't work, then they do everything they can to get control of government and proceed to enact policies that show exactly why it doesn't work. They are the reason it doesn't work. They are the party of No, No progress, No compromise, No Changes to the status quo, No help for those who need it, but give to those who don't, No to new research for renewable sources of power, No to cuts in Military interventionis policies, No to health care for all and the list of NO's is nearly endless.

    The far right leading the republicans tell us they're for freedom, but want to control what we do in our bedrooms and what a woman can do with her uterus, they want to bring our nation back to god to limit civil rights in order to receive his blessing, because we miss gods blessings by allowing gays in the military. Such are the republican party of far right fanatics, in whose hands we will come far closer to losing our freedoms than ever would happen from the left. Anyone would have to be blind not to see where this is heading under the republicans.


    The only thing you've done is cite conspiracy theorists here. Any facts? documented evidence? Like that the FBI is planting bombers in ows? Even on your first point it doesn't make sense - their effective tax rate is higher than other corporations - significantly higher.
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    Jul 04, 2012 1:34 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    realifedad said
    David4985 said306758_10150919159336275_1147575425_n.jp





    To your first point Riddler leaves out that these Oil Corps beat all records for profits in recent years and there is absolutely no reason to keep giving them 'corporate welfare'/ 'subsidies' at the expense of our tax payers.

    To your second point Riddler left out that by far the far right has been involved in much more 'terrorism' that any left leaning groups. The supposed OWS 'bomb plot' just so happened to be suggested, encouraged and prodded by a 'right wing plant'. as with several supposed 'terrorist plots' that the FBI were involved in. I guess they feel the need to make things happen to justify their 'fighting terrorism' jobs

    To your third point, Right wingers don't believe in global warming because as one Congressmen quoted scripture and then ignorantly pronounced on the House Floor, "God said he'd never destroy the earth again, so man cannot destroy it, God has prvided an endless supply of 'oil' resources". And of course God is always right, and God is on their side, so they cannot be wrong, so hell with science, to them their God trumps science. How do you deal with such ideological ignorance ? There is no reasoning with these right wingers and their gods that cannot be seen, heard or contacted. LMAO

    To your fourth point, The Right Wingers song and dance about not taxing the job producers ignores 10 years of no job improvement for all those promised jobs from the Bush tax cuts. They ignore that our economy was much much more vibrant when higer taxes were being levied on the top 1% prior to bush, and Bush has the worst record of job creation since the depression.

    To your fifth point, The Right Wingers voting Republican totally ignore all the debt that Bush wars and policies added that created a downward ever growing spiral of debt and loss of revenue, and that the republicans have done their level best to block any and all efforts to alleviate the problem. The party of no has succeeded in causing the problem, then blaming the victims for it. Its an old propaganda trick.

    Republicans say government doesn't work, then they do everything they can to get control of government and proceed to enact policies that show exactly why it doesn't work. They are the reason it doesn't work. They are the party of No, No progress, No compromise, No Changes to the status quo, No help for those who need it, but give to those who don't, No to new research for renewable sources of power, No to cuts in Military interventionis policies, No to health care for all and the list of NO's is nearly endless.

    The far right leading the republicans tell us they're for freedom, but want to control what we do in our bedrooms and what a woman can do with her uterus, they want to bring our nation back to god to limit civil rights in order to receive his blessing, because we miss gods blessings by allowing gays in the military. Such are the republican party of far right fanatics, in whose hands we will come far closer to losing our freedoms than ever would happen from the left. Anyone would have to be blind not to see where this is heading under the republicans.


    The only thing you've done is cite conspiracy theorists here. Any facts? documented evidence? Like that the FBI is planting bombers in ows? Even on your first point it doesn't make sense - their effective tax rate is higher than other corporations - significantly higher.




    OH come on Riddler, you know as well as I do that the real conspiracy theories lay with the republicans whose far right and militarists, love to author the problem then claim 'conspiracy theory' when exposed, you can do a search on anything I write and find plenty of proof. But you have to get away from agenda biased FOX NEWs and other organizations by its same owner.
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    Jul 04, 2012 1:41 AM GMT
    Try researching, via, OpEdNews, Global Research, Common Dreams, Mondoweis, Haaretz News and etc. Stay away from the Corp Media outlets which have obvious reasons for bias.
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    Jul 04, 2012 2:46 AM GMT
    realifedad said Try researching, via, OpEdNews, Global Research, Common Dreams, Mondoweis, Haaretz News and etc. Stay away from the Corp Media outlets which have obvious reasons for bias.


    Again, I don't see these points as credible when you consider even the basic facts for #1 for instance:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2012/04/16/which-megacorps-pay-megataxes/

    "ExxonMobil in 2011 made $27.3 billion in cash payments for income taxes. Chevron paid $17 billion and ConocoPhillips $10.6 billion. And not only were these the highest amounts in absolute terms, when compared with the rest of the 25 most profitable U.S. companies, the trio also had the highest effective tax rates. Exxon’s tax rate was 42.9%, Chevron’s was 48.3% and Conoco’s was 41.5%. That’s even higher than the 35% U.S. federal statutory rate, which is already the highest tax rate among developed nations."

    Guess what Apple's tax rate is? Please guess.
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    Jul 04, 2012 3:53 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    realifedad said Try researching, via, OpEdNews, Global Research, Common Dreams, Mondoweis, Haaretz News and etc. Stay away from the Corp Media outlets which have obvious reasons for bias.


    Again, I don't see these points as credible when you consider even the basic facts for #1 for instance:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2012/04/16/which-megacorps-pay-megataxes/

    "ExxonMobil in 2011 made $27.3 billion in cash payments for income taxes. Chevron paid $17 billion and ConocoPhillips $10.6 billion. And not only were these the highest amounts in absolute terms, when compared with the rest of the 25 most profitable U.S. companies, the trio also had the highest effective tax rates. Exxon’s tax rate was 42.9%, Chevron’s was 48.3% and Conoco’s was 41.5%. That’s even higher than the 35% U.S. federal statutory rate, which is already the highest tax rate among developed nations."

    Guess what Apple's tax rate is? Please guess.




    I wouldn't be shocked to find that Apple paid what GE paid, which I believe was Zero.


    As for the Oil Corps, they had world record profits, in the last few years, Should we the tax payers feel badly because they pay big taxes while making record profits ? Not just no, but hell no !! and neither should we tax payers subsidize them in any way shape or form.

    They exist because people exist to buy their product, people do not exist because big oil corps exist. Added to this is that oil Co's are big users of infrastructure, US influence and etc. There is a mutual dependence that exists and corps don't exist outside of that realm for profit only, When they exist without the mutual dependence balance, then they become an albatross merely to feed making we the taxpayers subservient to them. Sorry but that isn't the point behind creating corporations.

    Corps owe us, as in their workers, the country/states in which they exist and function, their share holders, the public doesn't owe servitude to corps, so tax them we should and stop subsidizing them. Repeated World Record profits tells us that something is wrong with the balance, and it isn't in the favor of the people for which these corps exist.
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    Jul 04, 2012 4:09 AM GMT
    By the way Riddler, its good conversing with you, I don't care how vehemently we may disagree. Could it be that the chasm is caused by my thinking that every entity exists by and for the benefit of people, we do not exist by, because of, or for any corp. entity. Corps are inanimate entities made by us for our good and taxing them for our mutual benefit is exactly how it should be.

    I believe you give corps a higher level of importance in the balance than I do, I know republicans particularly and all politicians in general do because of the relationship between Corp money and Politicians greed to get their money for elections and re-elections. Get corp money out of the halls of congress and you'd see a total change in how inanimate corps are looked upon.
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    Jul 04, 2012 4:12 AM GMT
    Why? Because people with lots of money (personally defined as a net worth of 7+ figures) want to get the most for their dollar. And those who have smaller incomes want the "rich" people to pony up some cash so they can be just as rich.
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    Jul 04, 2012 3:31 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidWhy? Because people with lots of money (personally defined as a net worth of 7+ figures) want to get the most for their dollar. And those who have smaller incomes want the "rich" people to pony up some cash so they can be just as rich.




    Nope !! You miss the whole point !!


    Those with the most, receive the most, therefore should pay the most.
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    Jul 04, 2012 5:08 PM GMT
    realifedad said
    paulflexes saidWhy? Because people with lots of money (personally defined as a net worth of 7+ figures) want to get the most for their dollar. And those who have smaller incomes want the "rich" people to pony up some cash so they can be just as rich.




    Nope !! You miss the whole point !!


    Those with the most, receive the most, therefore should pay the most.


    As they currently do.