Ask Yourself This One Question... Is It Really Worth It?

  • Nautical

    Posts: 204

    Aug 04, 2008 6:58 PM GMT



    Remember that every one of you decisions has a consequence that in some way effects everyone around you in ways you may not even realize.

    I ask of everyone to please protect yourself, HIV AIDS claims so many people everyday. You are someones son, brother, uncle, nephew, father, friend and lover. Think about how your decisions can change their worlds forever.
  • Nautical

    Posts: 204

    Aug 04, 2008 7:04 PM GMT
    Please add this video to your profile in hopes that others may view it and help the spread of knowlegde.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 04, 2008 7:10 PM GMT
    thanks nautical ill add it to my blog.

    what are those black leech things on the guy? is that a symptom of HIV? never heard of that.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 04, 2008 7:24 PM GMT
    Were the black splotches supposed to represent Karposi Sarcoma?

    Good vid. Interleaving the sex with the treatment really makes a strong mental impact joining the two.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 04, 2008 8:19 PM GMT
    yes it is important to ask yourself quesions, get the facts and make informed decisions.
    This video portrays someone with full blown AIDS.

    Remeber there is a huge difference between living with HIV as a now easily managed condition and as a result having excellent health as opposed to having full blown AIDS.
    Sensationalized, stigmatized, irresponsibly portrayed, and stereotyped propoganda, usually based on outdated data, does not compare to finding out the facts for oneself.

    I do not condone or support anything in this one way or the other, and am not making any judgements on people I don't konw. But I do think such a video could be perceived as ignorant, extremely simplistic, quite an unrealistic stretch between "A" and "B", slanted, and rather offensive to those who are HIV+, take good care of themselves, and are in actually better health and have stonger immune systems as a result than many of those who are neg.
    So just trying to give "fair play" to this.

    It all boils down to taking care of yourself...whether you are poz. or neg. There are always going to be people who do not take care of themselves, bad diet, drinking, partying, unhealthy lifestyle, etc. and they would die of some complications anyway, not because they were poz. or neg. but because they had just taken very bad care of themselves.

    And here are a few other facts just to put it all into perspective: (notice that more people die from even the Flu or car accidents than HIV, so I guess that means we should never leave our houses? or drive a car?)
    And the numbers have decreased since 2003.

    General Health Statistics
    Age-Adjusted Death Rates in the U.S. for Selected Causes of Death 1970–2003
    While heart disease, cancer and cerebrovascular diseases account for more than one-half of all deaths, the death rates for these conditions reached their lowest levels ever in 2003.
    *Note: Death rates per 100,000 resident population


    ................................... 1970 1980 1990 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003*
    Diseases of the heart = 492.7 412.1 321.8 293.4 257.6 247.8 240.8 232.1
    Malignant neoplasms = 198.6 207.9 216.0 209.9 199.6 196.0 193.5 190.7
    Cerebrovascular disease = 147.7 96.2 65.3 63.1 60.9 57.9 56.2 53.6
    Chronic lower respiratory diseases = n/a 28.3 37.2 40.1 44.2 43.7 43.5 43.2
    Accidents (unintentional injuries) = 60.1 46.4 36.3 34.4 34.9 35.7 36.9 36.1
    Diabetes mellitus = 24.3 18.1 20.7 23.2 25.0 25.3 25.4 25.2
    Influenza and pneumonia = 41.7 31.4 36.8 33.4 23.7 22.0 22.6 21.9
    Intentional self-harm (suicide) = 13.1 12.2 12.5 11.8 10.4 10.7 10.9 10.5
    Chronic liver disease = 17.8 15.1 11.1 9.9 9.5 9.5 9.4 9.2
    Homicide = 8.8 10.4 9.4 8.3 5.9 7.1 6.1 5.8
    HIV = n/a n/a 10.2 16.2 5.2 5.0 4.9 4.7
    *Note: Death rates per 100,000 resident population

    Source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (2004d)



  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 04, 2008 9:43 PM GMT
    fluxu8 said...I do think such a video could be perceived as ignorant, extremely simplistic, quite an unrealistic stretch between "A" and "B", slanted, and rather offensive to those who are HIV+, take good care of themselves, and are in actually better health and have stonger immune systems as a result than many of those who are neg.


    I couldn't agree more. I think this video is incredibly simplistic, unrealistic and offensive to people who are HIV positive. The major of American gay men who are positive today are on meds which, for the most part, control the incidence of KS, very well. Unlike the mid to late eighties, you don't ever see men walking down the street with sores like that anymore.

    And while this video is inherently trying to encourage the use of condoms, how sad it is that it would tie sex to death and dying. What kind of sick, twisted fuck, would take the single most pleasure experience humans can have and convey that without a condom, it is going to make you ugly with sores and kill you? What a bunch of bullshit!!!
  • Squarejaw

    Posts: 1035

    Aug 04, 2008 10:01 PM GMT
    BigSETXjock saidWhat kind of sick, twisted fuck, would take the single most pleasure experience humans can have and convey that without a condom, it is going to make you ugly with sores and kill you?

    An honest one?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 04, 2008 10:12 PM GMT
    no...i don't see even the slightest, most remote grain of honesty in it. It's incredibly ignorant and stigmatized (circa. 1985).

    I mean using that kind of logic, there should be a video that portrays ALL gay men has being a bunch of, fey, weak, makeup wearing, swishy, limp wristed, lispy, dress wearing flamers. It makes about that much sense.

    I think i have a pretty good idea where this video came from, who's behind it, and what they hope to accomplish by it...and they ain't on your side buddy.

    please....icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 04, 2008 10:30 PM GMT
    fluxu8 saidno...i don't see even the slightest, most remote grain of honesty in it. It's incredibly ignorant and stigmatized (circa. 1985).

    I mean using that kind of logic, there should be a video that portrays ALL gay men has being a bunch of, fey, weak, makeup wearing, swishy, limp wristed, lispy, dress wearing flamers. It makes about that much sense.

    I think i have a pretty good idea where this video came from, who's behind it, and what they hope to accomplish by it...and they ain't on your side buddy.

    please....icon_rolleyes.gif


    I couldn't agree more. The relevancy of having unprotected sex that leads to infection is grotesquely overplayed. We are grown adults and know the price one pays for playing with fire. I'm not condoning unsafe sex practices, however I am stating that each person can only hold themselves responsible for taking their life into their hands. This video exaggerates the life (and ultimately death) an individual can expect if infected with the HIV virus, and this no longer holds true in today's society. At best, it is a good scare tactic. And why does it have to be a gay couple? Why not heterosexual? I'd be interested to know when this video was made and by whom.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Aug 04, 2008 10:45 PM GMT
    I don't think that it's trying to say ANYTHING at all about HIV positive men
    and I do not see why anyone would take offense to something that is a real possibility if you do not engage in safe sex... always
    I have Personally spoken to more than one young man who were in their early twenties who said that they didn't care if they became HIV positive because it would mean just taking a pill a day
    This is the kind of health illiteracy we're dealing with now
    ... and I don't think the video goes far enough
    Am I worried about hurting someone's feelings when the truth is told about a medical condition...?
    absolutely not....

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 04, 2008 10:51 PM GMT
    There is more good news recently...

    Pathologists Believe They Have Pinpointed Achilles Heel Of HIV

    "Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) researchers at The University of Texas Medical School at Houston believe they have uncovered the Achilles heel in the armor of the virus that continues to kill millions.

    The weak spot is hidden in the HIV envelope protein gp120. This protein is essential for HIV attachment to host cells, which initiate infection and eventually lead to Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome or AIDS."

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080715165520.htm


    Researchers Look to Pill, Taken Daily, to Avert H.I.V.

    Can a pill a day help prevent infection from H.I.V., the virus that causes AIDS?

    No one knows. But researchers in a number of countries are conducting trials and planning others to test the unproven strategy that a daily pill, or a combination of drugs, can prevent H.I.V.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/04/health/04aids.html

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 04, 2008 11:01 PM GMT
    GQjock said... and I don't think the video goes far enough


    what a very scary thing to say.
  • MSUBioNerd

    Posts: 1813

    Aug 04, 2008 11:03 PM GMT
    "And why does it have to be a gay couple? Why not heterosexual?"

    Well, because, statistically it's more likely to be the gay or bi men getting infected in the US. As shows up in this news report on our own site about a paper about to be published by the CDC, 53% of new infections in the US are men who have sex with men. Assuming that gay and bi men are about 10% of all men and men are half the population, that means that our rate of infection is a little more than 20 times higher than that of the rest of the population. That's depressing, but we really are more likely to get infected than heterosexuals in this country.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 04, 2008 11:47 PM GMT
    The "relevancy of unprotected sex to HIV infection" is captured right on point in this video in the starkest possible terms. To be brutally honest, some things about biology haven't changed since 1985.
    One of them is the consequence of becoming infected with HIV for the great majority of people - eventual full-blown AIDS, and it is a bad one, worth taking precautions and changing behaviors to prevent.

    Yes, the disease is now treatable (at least for those in developed Western countries) and that those who live with it can have healthy, full productive lives . . . but at the enormous personal cost of lifelong, unrelieved dependence on advanced, intrusive, constantly shifting and often toxic and unpredictable drug treatment and blood monitoring, a regimen that can come to define their lives. This is not just "taking a pill." No human worthy of the name I've met that is going through it would wish it on anyone. And yes, the brutal truth is that the choice HIV+ people face - lifelong treatment or certain illness and death - can an all come from ONE episode of unprotected sex, exactly as shown in the video.

    The way to prevent HIV infection is also the same today as as it was in 1985 . . . personal choices to use condoms, to have safer sex, and to encourage other to make similar choices, each and every time they have sex.

    Preventing and treating HIV is about biology, and protecting our bodies from harm, not about any emotional significance we attach to sex. The implication is that there is NO sex of any kind without some health risk, and their never has been, but to say so is not being sex-negative or anti-gay. That video might as well have been about a str8 or bi couple. HIV doesn't care about your orientation, of if you're out or not, if you don't like condoms, or "trust" your boyfriend, or about our community debates about being sex-positive or not.

    And once and for all . . . avoiding HIV infection is NOT a call to avoid HIV+ men as pariahs, nor is portaying graphic symptoms of illness a slur against HIV+ men.

    Being HIV- or HIV+ says nothing at all about the content of anyone's character . . . but there are other things that do. One test is what sense of responsibility you have towards others, and whether you don't mind causing needless suffering to get your kicks. By that token, guys who are HIV+ and don't INSIST on protecting EVERY sex partner from infection - the ones who go ahead and expose others because it's the other guy's "adult" choice - are probably getting all the scorn they deserve.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 05, 2008 12:06 AM GMT
    and insensitive, close minded, pompous, sanctimonious rhetoric is just as toxic and damaging. And some people have never found a cure for that disease... and clearly never will.

    Best Regards.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 05, 2008 12:43 AM GMT
    Estimated per act risk for acquisition
    of HIV by exposure route
    ( with detectable viral load )

    Exposure Route Estimated infections
    per 10,000 exposures
    to an infected source
    Blood Transfusion 9,000 = 0.9
    Childbirth 2,500
    Needle-sharing injection drug use 67
    Percutaneous needle stick 30
    Receptive anal intercourse* 50 = 0.005
    Insertive anal intercourse* 6.5 = 0.00065

    Receptive penile-vaginal intercourse* 10
    Insertive penile-vaginal intercourse* 5
    Receptive oral intercourse*§ 1 = 0.0001
    Insertive oral intercourse* 0.5 = 0.00005


    * assuming no condom use
    § source refers to oral intercourse
    performed on a man


    This was based on a 2005 study by
    Smith DK, Grohskopf LA, Black RJ,

    Other more recent studies now indicate with undetectable viral load these numbers are even more decreased if not perhaps absent.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 05, 2008 1:14 AM GMT
    There are ways people use statistics to rationalize things, or defend the indefensible, but this is the first time I've seen raw stats used as a rationalization for barebacking.

    A couple small things:

    1) The 0.005 number of infections for unprotected receptive anal intercourse is still 10 times (an order of magnitude) greater than all the other anal and oral modes combined. We've known that for a while.

    2) These are all per single exposure stats . . . it all depends on how much unprotected sex with how many partners a particular guy has, and we gay men have way more (and IMHO, better) sex than our str8 brethren. 5/100ths of an infection with one partner = 1 infection with 100 or more partners. Lots of us have had more than that just in our 20s (sheathed, of course);

    and

    3) always fair questions when you cite a study: who/where/how was the study done, with what sample size, in what country, and by what people? A cite would help.

    And now for the big point:

    1) If the whole point is defending our community, the chance of ONE infection you can possibly prevent should be enough to give you pause. NONE of the numbers are zero. I know they wouldn't be zero in fact with condoms either, but then again there's a real difference between .005 and maybe sheathed - I'm taking a wild guess - perhaps 0.0000000000005, which is zero in practice.

    2) Is it really worth so much to some of you - is it really that much of a pain - that you can't grab a
    @^%#ing condom, or insist a guy use one?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 05, 2008 1:29 AM GMT
    I think that the video is trying, in short, simple terms, to convey the dangers of unprotected sex.

    And it succeeds.

    I am not afraid of unprotected sex now. I am warned.


  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 05, 2008 1:34 AM GMT
    CrazyKid saidI think that the video is trying, in short, simple terms, to convey the dangers of unprotected sex.

    And it succeeds.

    I am not afraid of unprotected sex now. I am warned.




    Well said.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 05, 2008 1:40 AM GMT
    as i said before, I am not promoting or condoning anything..I am just putting the facts out there. sorry if that upsets you.
    I'll leave the remainder of this thread to you to pontificate.

    done.

    icon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 05, 2008 1:43 AM GMT
    and i am not disagreeing with you as you seem to have more down to an art form...I was simply stating initially that i thought the video was inane.
    That's all.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 05, 2008 1:44 AM GMT
    ...and be careful with that "open relationship" of yours...you may bring something home to your partner.
    icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 05, 2008 1:50 AM GMT
    That video shows the half full and half empty points of view in this room.

    It is graphic and a bit over the top. Some say it is dated, true KS is rare now.

    On the other hand the CDC released a report that HIV/AIDS might be under reported by 40%. That is scary.

    Yes, HIV/AIDS is now a chronic illness, but so is diabetes and people really do not want to get that either. Treatment with anything medical has costs, body tolerence, toxicity,interaction with drugs used for short term illnesses, and the Virus Mutates. The Virus of the 1980, is not the same one as today. Viruses do not have DNA they transmit information, by T-RNA where the chains open up and replicate. Generation is very quick, and mutation is common. One virus in one cell can make Thousands of copies and then attack the bodies T cells.

    Some facts to think about
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 05, 2008 1:55 AM GMT
    Watch the video guys. There was a time in my life when I went to at least one funeral a week. In a core group of 45 or 50 friends only 3 of us are still alive.

    Think about it.

    Tom
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 05, 2008 2:11 AM GMT
    Two mark that is the problem most of those under 40 do not remember the Pages of Obits in Gay Papers or having to go to Funerals on a weekly basis.

    The new drugs thankfully has made it a managable chronic illness, but with any illness how it effects soem differ.

    Case in point was Typhiod Mary was was a carrier and never showed any syptoms but spread teh Illness. Also a viral load that is undetectable does not mean you can not inflect. Viruses, reproduce by T RNA replication and does not need two viruses to exchange genetic material