In Pa., Voter ID Law Already Changing The Electoral Landscape

  • metta

    Posts: 39107

    Jul 07, 2012 5:43 PM GMT
    In Pa., Voter ID Law Already Changing The Electoral Landscape

    http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/07/in-pa-voter-id-law-already-changing-the-electoral-landscape.php
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    Jul 07, 2012 6:00 PM GMT
    WOW! If you didn't know what criminals the Republicans are before, you know now. US voting under Republicans has become like the shams we so often criticize in third-world dictatorships.

    Driven by false claims of voter fraud problems that never existed in any numbers in the first place, a complete fabrication by Republicans to justify this illegal country-wide plot to disenfranchise legitimate voters who might vote for Democratic candidates. What in heaven's name has happened to our country?

    icon_cry.gif
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    Jul 07, 2012 6:39 PM GMT
    Art_Deco saidWOW! If you didn't know what criminals the Republicans are before, you know now. US voting under Republicans has become like the shams we so often criticize in third-world dictatorships.

    Driven by false claims of voter fraud problems that never existed in any numbers in the first place, a complete fabrication by Republicans to justify this illegal country-wide plot to disenfranchise legitimate voters who might vote for Democratic candidates. What in heaven's name has happened to our country?

    icon_cry.gif


    Yes because all Republicans are criminal and it's disenfranchising a voter to ask for identification because it's also disenfranchising the same voter to ask for ID when they buy alcohol and cigarettes and a firearm (not to mention vote at Democratic primaries).

    Like do you have any sense of self awareness given your comment earlier about Southbeach's ban or are you really that limited in your ability to process information?
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    Jul 07, 2012 7:12 PM GMT
    It's actually kinda sad since I know at least 10 patients of mine who don't drive any more due to age and have not renewed their licenses. Who knows if they even have a passport (most of them have never traveled outside the country) or can find their birth certificate?
    "758,000 registered voters in Pennsylvania — representing 9.2 percent of the state’s 8.2 million registered voters"--that's not just a few percent, that's almost 1 in 10 people. Some of them might have student IDs, but what about the others.

    Speaking of...I need to renew my license soon.icon_lol.gif
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Jul 07, 2012 7:18 PM GMT
    q1w2e3 saidIt's actually kinda sad since I know at least 10 patients of mine who don't drive any more due to age and have not renewed their licenses. Who knows if they even have a passport (most of them have never traveled outside the country) or can find their birth certificate?
    "758,000 registered voters in Pennsylvania — representing 9.2 percent of the state’s 8.2 million registered voters"--that's not just a few percent, that's almost 1 in 10 people. Some of them might have student IDs, but what about the others.

    Speaking of...I need to renew my license soon.icon_lol.gif


    if they had a licence, couldn't they have it transferred to a non-driver's ID? I assume they if they occasionally write a personal check, they'd still need to provide an ID
  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Jul 07, 2012 8:36 PM GMT
    This will e my first trip through the voting booth in Florida for a Presidential election. Florida uses the same 'Real ID' as Georgia so it should b a simple matter of scanning the licdense to validate eligibility to vote and that a vote has been cast.

    The Real ID system prevents folks from voting in two states also, provided your state us the system. So .... someone can not vote in Philadelphia in person and then mail an absentee ballot to Florida, provided Pennsylvaia's new voter id uses 'Real ID.'

    Of course we all know no one would EVER commit voter fraud, certainly not a Democrat anyway.
  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Jul 07, 2012 8:37 PM GMT
    Timbales said
    q1w2e3 saidIt's actually kinda sad since I know at least 10 patients of mine who don't drive any more due to age and have not renewed their licenses. Who knows if they even have a passport (most of them have never traveled outside the country) or can find their birth certificate?
    "758,000 registered voters in Pennsylvania — representing 9.2 percent of the state’s 8.2 million registered voters"--that's not just a few percent, that's almost 1 in 10 people. Some of them might have student IDs, but what about the others.

    Speaking of...I need to renew my license soon.icon_lol.gif


    if they had a licence, couldn't they have it transferred to a non-driver's ID? I assume they if they occasionally write a personal check, they'd still need to provide an ID


    Yes they can. In fact, someone on Medicaid would have ID or not be treated, so the Democratic argument of disenfrancisment is what it is: bull.
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    Jul 08, 2012 12:33 AM GMT
    Timbales said
    q1w2e3 saidIt's actually kinda sad since I know at least 10 patients of mine who don't drive any more due to age and have not renewed their licenses. Who knows if they even have a passport (most of them have never traveled outside the country) or can find their birth certificate?
    "758,000 registered voters in Pennsylvania — representing 9.2 percent of the state’s 8.2 million registered voters"--that's not just a few percent, that's almost 1 in 10 people. Some of them might have student IDs, but what about the others.

    Speaking of...I need to renew my license soon.icon_lol.gif


    if they had a licence, couldn't they have it transferred to a non-driver's ID? I assume they if they occasionally write a personal check, they'd still need to provide an ID


    I'm talking about older folks who don't drive any more and live with their relatives who take care of their finances. For people in assisted living or retirement homes, their institution may issue them a card that might work.

    In PA, Medicare or Medicaid card doesn't count. They will have to go physically to a PennDOT location to get an ID. I know at least some of my patients have difficulty getting around (they always want me to see them on specific days so that they can get a ride), and I'm sure some of them do absentee ballots.

    http://www.votespa.com/portal/server.pt/community/preparing_for_election_day/13517/voter_id_law/1115447
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    Jul 08, 2012 12:44 AM GMT
    Yeah, but it's PA, who cares?
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3280

    Jul 08, 2012 6:41 AM GMT
    q1w2e3 said
    Timbales said
    q1w2e3 saidIt's actually kinda sad since I know at least 10 patients of mine who don't drive any more due to age and have not renewed their licenses. Who knows if they even have a passport (most of them have never traveled outside the country) or can find their birth certificate?
    "758,000 registered voters in Pennsylvania — representing 9.2 percent of the state’s 8.2 million registered voters"--that's not just a few percent, that's almost 1 in 10 people. Some of them might have student IDs, but what about the others.

    Speaking of...I need to renew my license soon.icon_lol.gif


    if they had a licence, couldn't they have it transferred to a non-driver's ID? I assume they if they occasionally write a personal check, they'd still need to provide an ID


    I'm talking about older folks who don't drive any more and live with their relatives who take care of their finances. For people in assisted living or retirement homes, their institution may issue them a card that might work.

    In PA, Medicare or Medicaid card doesn't count. They will have to go physically to a PennDOT location to get an ID. I know at least some of my patients have difficulty getting around (they always want me to see them on specific days so that they can get a ride), and I'm sure some of them do absentee ballots.

    http://www.votespa.com/portal/server.pt/community/preparing_for_election_day/13517/voter_id_law/1115447


    This particular demographic has the right to absentee ballot vote ahead of time.


    This was designed for the sick / elderly or out of town voters. It is easy and saves aggravation of voting lines.


    http://www.votespa.com/portal/server.pt/community/how_to_vote/13515/voting_by_absentee_ballot/
    I can think of all types of people that do not have a license or ID. But as it goes about every state you can vote by mail ahead of time. Especially for nursing home patients this is the only practical and safe way to have them vote.

    Using your 10 or so patients as an example is there a reason why any of them would have a problem voting by mail and bypassing the need for a ID ?

    I would like to hear an intelligent argument why if someone does not want to have a ID. Why they cant just vote by absentee ballot?


    Voting Fraud history PA

    http://articles.philly.com/2012-05-04/news/31556815_1_vote-fraud-absentee-voting-voting-machines
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    Jul 08, 2012 1:39 PM GMT
    From the same article:

    http://articles.philly.com/2012-05-04/news/31556815_1_vote-fraud-absentee-voting-voting-machinesBut the law's main provision, requiring the state's 8.2 million registered voters to produce drivers' licenses or other official forms of photo ID, appears to target a kind of fraud that by all accounts hasn't cropped up in recent years in the city or state.

    "The phrase used is voter impersonation, where John Doe pretends to be Henry Jones in order to cast a vote," Harvey said. "No one has identified any such cases, certainly in Philadelphia, in my time frame." Harvey is 75.

    The Administrative Office of Pennsylvania Courts reported last month that there had been no convictions for voter impersonation or voter fraud in Pennsylvania in the last five years. And at a recent budget hearing, when Corbett's secretary of the commonwealth, Carol Aichele - who as head of the Department of State oversees elections - was asked about evidence of voter fraud in the state, she said she wasn't aware of specific cases, adding, "There is no method to detect or deter voter fraud."


    While absentee ballots are always an option for the elderly, sometimes to get the supporting documents it may cost a lot of money (e.g. birth certificates, passports, etc). (To vote by absentee ballots you still have to send in copies of supporting documents.) It would have been better if people who have voted in previous elections be "grandfathered" by the law.
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    Jul 08, 2012 2:37 PM GMT
    these laws are having the effect desired by lawmakers and their funders: the disenfranchisement of poor and/or undereducated US citizens. basically a non-issue (voter fraud) was made into an issue for the purpose of suppressing voting rights.
  • tokugawa

    Posts: 945

    Jul 08, 2012 11:28 PM GMT
    tailgater_3 saidthese laws are having the effect desired by lawmakers and their funders: the disenfranchisement of poor and/or undereducated US citizens. basically a non-issue (voter fraud) was made into an issue for the purpose of suppressing voting rights.


    Republicans have been repeatedly caught disenfranchising likely Democrats. Two examples:

    #1: Ed Rollins, New Jersey Governor, 1993. Rollins funded Black ministers' charities if they didn't promote the Democratic candidate. The Democratic candidate lost. Rollins bragged about this tactic in public.

    source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Rollins#1993_gubernatorial_campaign

    #2: Kathleen Harris, 2000 Presidential election. Harris oversaw the purge of the Florida Central Voter File, which intentionally removed many eligible voters. 88% on purged list were Blacks, despite the fact that Blacks made up only about 11% of Florida's voters. The total number of voters purged exceeded the Bush margin of victory. If Bush had lost Florida, Gore would have been elected president in 2000.

    Some examples of voters purged from voting rolls:

    Thomas Cooper, Date of Birth September 5, 1973; crime, unknown; conviction date, January 30, 2007 (date is seven years in the future in 2000.)

    Johnny Jackson Jr., Date of Birth, 1970; crime, none, mistaken for John Fitzgerald Jackson who was still in his jail cell in Texas.

    Wallace McDonald, Date of Birth, 1928; crime, fell asleep on a bus-stop bench in 1959.

    Reverend Willie Dixon, convicted in the 1970s at the latest; note, received full executive clemency (and thus was wrongly removed.)

    Randall J. Higginbotham, Date of Birth, August 28, 1960; crimes, none, mistaken for Sean David Higginbotham, born June 16, 1971.

    Reverend Willy D. Whiting Jr., crime, a speeding ticket from 1990, confused with Willy J. Whiting who have birthdays 2 days apart.

    Source:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Central_Voter_File