Going Galt? 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare

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    Jul 10, 2012 1:44 AM GMT
    http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/09/report-83-percent-of-doctors-have-considered-quitting-over-obamacare/

    Eighty-three percent of American physicians have considered leaving their practices over President Barack Obama’s health care reform law, according to a survey released by the Doctor Patient Medical Association.

    The DPMA, a non-partisan association of doctors and patients, surveyed a random selection of 699 doctors nationwide. The survey found that the majority have thought about bailing out of their careers over the legislation, which was upheld last month by the Supreme Court.

    Even if doctors do not quit their jobs over the ruling, America will face a shortage of at least 90,000 doctors by 2020. The new health care law increases demand for physicians by expanding insurance coverage. This change will exacerbate the current shortage as more Americans live past 65.

    By 2025 the shortage will balloon to over 130,000, Len Marquez, the director of government relations at the American Association of Medical Colleges, told The Daily Caller.

    “One of our primary concerns is that you’ve got an aging physician workforce and you have these new beneficiaries — these newly insured people — coming through the system,” he said. “There will be strains and there will be physician shortages.”

    The DPMA found that many doctors do not believe the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act will lead to better access to medical care for the majority of Americans, co-founder of the DPMA Kathryn Serkes told TheDC.

    “Doctors clearly understand what Washington does not — that a piece of paper that says you are ‘covered’ by insurance or ‘enrolled’ in Medicare or Medicaid does not translate to actual medical care when doctors can’t afford to see patients at the lowball payments, and patients have to jump through government and insurance company bureaucratic hoops,” she said.
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    Jul 10, 2012 1:49 AM GMT
    Interesting take on Obamacare from a respected physician and author.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2494613/
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    Jul 10, 2012 1:55 AM GMT
    socalfitness saidInteresting take on Obamacare from a respected physician and author.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2494613/


    Some people I guess insist the need to learn the hard way. And when it ultimately does fail, they'll try to blame it on xyz republican of the day as they do today for any number of issues.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jul 10, 2012 1:55 AM GMT
    Where the F88K do you GET THIS CRAP FROM?

    The Doctor Patient Medical Association??????
    Riddler my man THERE IS NO SUCH MEDICAL ASSOC
    I repeat .... THERE IS NO SUCH MEDICAL ASSOC

    It Might BE an ASSOCIATION but it sure ain't medical
    your getting crap from crap

    Pssst ... they said they sent out 36,000 faxed questionnaires and got 699 back
    Blase Pascal just turned over in his grave and laughed hysterically icon_biggrin.gif
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3270

    Jul 10, 2012 2:05 AM GMT
    GQjock saidWhere the F88K do you GET THIS CRAP FROM?

    The Doctor Patient Medical Association??????
    Riddler my man THERE IS NO SUCH MEDICAL ASSOC
    I repeat .... THERE IS NO SUCH MEDICAL ASSOC

    It Might BE an ASSOCIATION but it sure ain't medical
    your getting crap from crap

    Pssst ... they said they sent out 36,000 faxed questionnaires and got 699 back
    Blase Pascal just turned over in his grave and laughed hysterically icon_biggrin.gif



    It does exist. Its new, but it has no less credibility than the AMA.
    Its obviously a healthcare policy association

    Less than 17% of physicians belong to the AMA. And that number will drop every year, trust me on that.

  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jul 10, 2012 2:18 AM GMT
    musclmed said
    GQjock saidWhere the F88K do you GET THIS CRAP FROM?

    The Doctor Patient Medical Association??????
    Riddler my man THERE IS NO SUCH MEDICAL ASSOC
    I repeat .... THERE IS NO SUCH MEDICAL ASSOC

    It Might BE an ASSOCIATION but it sure ain't medical
    your getting crap from crap

    Pssst ... they said they sent out 36,000 faxed questionnaires and got 699 back
    Blase Pascal just turned over in his grave and laughed hysterically icon_biggrin.gif



    It does exist. Its new, but it has no less credibility than the AMA.
    Its obviously a healthcare policy association

    Less than 17% of physicians belong to the AMA. And that number will drop every year, trust me on that.


    You know what?

    It's either sad or disgusting that you take other people for such idiots that we would EVEN begin to Believe the crap that you spill

    Here
    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Doctor_Patient_Medical_Association

    Take THIS and give yourself a republican enema
    You colon is clogged with it
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3270

    Jul 10, 2012 2:27 AM GMT
    GQjock said
    musclmed said
    GQjock saidWhere the F88K do you GET THIS CRAP FROM?

    The Doctor Patient Medical Association??????
    Riddler my man THERE IS NO SUCH MEDICAL ASSOC
    I repeat .... THERE IS NO SUCH MEDICAL ASSOC

    It Might BE an ASSOCIATION but it sure ain't medical
    your getting crap from crap

    Pssst ... they said they sent out 36,000 faxed questionnaires and got 699 back
    Blase Pascal just turned over in his grave and laughed hysterically icon_biggrin.gif



    It does exist. Its new, but it has no less credibility than the AMA.
    Its obviously a healthcare policy association

    Less than 17% of physicians belong to the AMA. And that number will drop every year, trust me on that.


    You know what?

    It's either sad or disgusting that you take other people for such idiots that we would EVEN begin to Believe the crap that you spill

    Here
    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Doctor_Patient_Medical_Association

    Take THIS and give yourself a republican enema
    You colon is clogged with it


    What "crap did I spill?" exactly what was it precisely ?

    I suspected that it was a policy association. Very much like the AMA. And I said so above.
  • nanidesukedo

    Posts: 1036

    Jul 10, 2012 2:27 AM GMT
    83%? Doctor Patient Medical Association?? Even Musclmed can tell you this is BS...lol.

    I've already debunked the biased surveys of this "association" in another thread...to even compare it to the AMA is laughable.

    Holy cherry picking selection bias in the survey, batman.

    Because of the bias towards "small" and "clinic based" practice (like 4-6x over-representation) vs large and hospital based practices, I'm willing to take a gamble that this isn't the only "selection" they made in their survey.

    PS: You, as someone who claims to know so much about American politics, should know that the decline began about 15-20 years ago and is nothing recent.


  • musclmed

    Posts: 3270

    Jul 10, 2012 2:35 AM GMT
    nanidesukedo said83%? Doctor Patient Medical Association?? Even Musclmed can tell you this is BS...lol.

    I've already debunked the biased surveys of this "association" in another thread...to even compare it to the AMA is laughable.

    Holy cherry picking selection bias in the survey, batman.

    Because of the bias towards "small" and "clinic based" practice (like 4-6x over-representation), I'm willing to take a gamble that this isn't the only "selection" they made in their survey.



    I said it was a policy association.

    but look at it this was. Assuming they sent a survey. Its more than anyone did when crafting the healthcare law.

    Very few if any physicians were involved. And doctors have themselves to blame on that account.
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    Jul 10, 2012 2:36 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    socalfitness saidInteresting take on Obamacare from a respected physician and author.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2494613/


    Some people I guess insist the need to learn the hard way. And when it ultimately does fail, they'll try to blame it on xyz republican of the day as they do today for any number of issues.

    Of course they would blame, but they know a priori that it will fail. Actually, I don't think it will fail because it will be repealed starting the day Romney takes office. With the horrendous economic jobs picture, he's trying to dance his way out of that, but there is enough money to nail his ass.
  • nanidesukedo

    Posts: 1036

    Jul 10, 2012 2:37 AM GMT
    musclmed said
    nanidesukedo said83%? Doctor Patient Medical Association?? Even Musclmed can tell you this is BS...lol.

    I've already debunked the biased surveys of this "association" in another thread...to even compare it to the AMA is laughable.

    Holy cherry picking selection bias in the survey, batman.

    Because of the bias towards "small" and "clinic based" practice (like 4-6x over-representation), I'm willing to take a gamble that this isn't the only "selection" they made in their survey.



    I said it was a policy association.

    but look at it this was. Assuming they sent a survey. Its more than anyone did when crafting the healthcare law.

    Very few if any physicians were involved. And doctors have themselves to blame on that account.


    If that's the case that doctors are to blame, they should be proud ;) I've worked at one of the largest hospital systems on the east coast and one of the largest hospital systems on the west coast...I can tell you that both systems were celebrating the day Obamacare passed and also the day when the Supreme court upheld it.

    Amongst the large group and hospital systems, where the majority of doctors now reside, this is being seen as a victory and a step in the right direction of providing affordable access of care to a larger number of individuals. The worst that came of it was being told that each of our patient census' in our primary care clinic would prob increase by about 15-20 people...It's a little extra work, but I think it's worth it.
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    Jul 10, 2012 2:41 AM GMT
    nanidesukedo said
    musclmed said
    nanidesukedo said83%? Doctor Patient Medical Association?? Even Musclmed can tell you this is BS...lol.

    I've already debunked the biased surveys of this "association" in another thread...to even compare it to the AMA is laughable.

    Holy cherry picking selection bias in the survey, batman.

    Because of the bias towards "small" and "clinic based" practice (like 4-6x over-representation), I'm willing to take a gamble that this isn't the only "selection" they made in their survey.



    I said it was a policy association.

    but look at it this was. Assuming they sent a survey. Its more than anyone did when crafting the healthcare law.

    Very few if any physicians were involved. And doctors have themselves to blame on that account.


    If that's the case that doctors are to blame, they should be proud ;) I've worked at one of the largest hospital systems on the east coast and one of the largest hospital systems on the west coast...I can tell you that both systems were celebrating the day Obamacare passed and also the day when the Supreme court upheld it.

    Amongst the large group and hospital systems, where the majority of doctors now reside, this is being seen as a victory and a step in the right direction of providing affordable access of care to a larger number of individuals. The worst that came of it was being told that each of our patient census' in our primary care clinic would prob increase by about 15-20 people...It's a little extra work, but I think it's worth it.

    Didn't you say most of your patients were indigent without insurance. From your perspective anything is better than nothing, but being paid for and sacrificed by the large pct who have insurance and will see their care deteriorate. But all academic I suspect. When the word is effectively put out with massive campaign funding, Obama will be gone, and so will his signature legislation.
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    Jul 10, 2012 2:45 AM GMT
    musclmed,

    You might have missed this thread:

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2486994/
  • nanidesukedo

    Posts: 1036

    Jul 10, 2012 2:47 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    nanidesukedo said
    musclmed said
    nanidesukedo said83%? Doctor Patient Medical Association?? Even Musclmed can tell you this is BS...lol.

    I've already debunked the biased surveys of this "association" in another thread...to even compare it to the AMA is laughable.

    Holy cherry picking selection bias in the survey, batman.

    Because of the bias towards "small" and "clinic based" practice (like 4-6x over-representation), I'm willing to take a gamble that this isn't the only "selection" they made in their survey.



    I said it was a policy association.

    but look at it this was. Assuming they sent a survey. Its more than anyone did when crafting the healthcare law.

    Very few if any physicians were involved. And doctors have themselves to blame on that account.


    If that's the case that doctors are to blame, they should be proud ;) I've worked at one of the largest hospital systems on the east coast and one of the largest hospital systems on the west coast...I can tell you that both systems were celebrating the day Obamacare passed and also the day when the Supreme court upheld it.

    Amongst the large group and hospital systems, where the majority of doctors now reside, this is being seen as a victory and a step in the right direction of providing affordable access of care to a larger number of individuals. The worst that came of it was being told that each of our patient census' in our primary care clinic would prob increase by about 15-20 people...It's a little extra work, but I think it's worth it.

    Didn't you say most of your patients were indigent without insurance. From your perspective anything is better than nothing, but being paid for and sacrificed by the large pct who have insurance and will see their care deteriorate. But all academic I suspect. When the word is effectively put out with massive campaign funding, Obama will be gone, and so will his signature legislation.


    No sacrifice of care, actually, improved care. Part of the "obamacare" plan are incentives for patient centered medical home models of care, which are showing over and over again to improve the health outcomes of patient populations. About 40% of my current clinic census is insured outside of government plans and their care is improving because of this model as well.

    It's only gonna get better from here.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3270

    Jul 10, 2012 2:49 AM GMT
    nanidesukedo said
    musclmed said
    nanidesukedo said83%? Doctor Patient Medical Association?? Even Musclmed can tell you this is BS...lol.


    If that's the case that doctors are to blame, they should be proud ;) I've worked at one of the largest hospital systems on the east coast and one of the largest hospital systems on the west coast...I can tell you that both systems were celebrating the day Obamacare passed and also the day when the Supreme court upheld it.

    Amongst the large group and hospital systems, where the majority of doctors now reside, this is being seen as a victory and a step in the right direction of providing affordable access of care to a larger number of individuals. The worst that came of it was being told that each of our patient census' in our primary care clinic would prob increase by about 15-20 people...It's a little extra work, but I think it's worth it.


    Since you mentioned this I want to know specifically since the provisions do not even take effect for 18 months or so how was that "15-20" people was presented to you?
    15-20 per week? per day per month? Or just added to a assigned census to a resident?
    fyi Docs who are done with training typically have a census of 2000-3000 active patients.


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    Jul 10, 2012 2:54 AM GMT
    *observes the happy conservatives, who are supposed to be happier than liberals*
  • nanidesukedo

    Posts: 1036

    Jul 10, 2012 2:57 AM GMT
    musclmed said
    nanidesukedo said
    musclmed said
    nanidesukedo said83%? Doctor Patient Medical Association?? Even Musclmed can tell you this is BS...lol.


    If that's the case that doctors are to blame, they should be proud ;) I've worked at one of the largest hospital systems on the east coast and one of the largest hospital systems on the west coast...I can tell you that both systems were celebrating the day Obamacare passed and also the day when the Supreme court upheld it.

    Amongst the large group and hospital systems, where the majority of doctors now reside, this is being seen as a victory and a step in the right direction of providing affordable access of care to a larger number of individuals. The worst that came of it was being told that each of our patient census' in our primary care clinic would prob increase by about 15-20 people...It's a little extra work, but I think it's worth it.


    Since you mentioned this I want to know specifically since the provisions do not even take effect for 18 months or so how was that "15-20" people was presented to you?
    15-20 per week? per day per month? Or just added to a assigned census to a resident?
    fyi Docs who are done with training typically have a census of 2000-3000 active patients.




    My census is much lower now because I only have my personal clinic about 1/4 of the time that I actually work. That number was presented as a projection based off the population statistics the hospital did for the area I work in and how many they project to become insured and to be seeking primary care after the law. The number is per census per IM resident. The FM people, who do more clinic than we do, will be getting much more - same with those who are on PC tracks.
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    Jul 10, 2012 3:05 AM GMT
    nanidesukedo said
    No sacrifice of care, actually, improved care. Part of the "obamacare" plan are incentives for patient centered medical home models of care, which are showing over and over again to improve the health outcomes of patient populations. About 40% of my current clinic census is insured outside of government plans and their care is improving because of this model as well.

    It's only gonna get better from here.

    Not what most think, but won't come to pass anyway. Enjoy the Kool Aid.
  • nanidesukedo

    Posts: 1036

    Jul 10, 2012 3:08 AM GMT
    Furthermore, the great thing about obamacare is that payments and funding will be based off health outcomes for patient populations. This forces healthcare workers to adapt to their patient populations and to serve them better. There is a huge paradigm shift in primary care that started before obamacare and has been hugely bolstered by it (the aforementioned patient centered medical home). It emphasizes a multidisciplinary role in patient care and does an excellent job at helping prevent acute episodes of disease in those that have some of the most chronic diseases (like HTN, CHF, DMII, etc). This keeps them out of the clinics and keeps them healthy...win win.
  • nanidesukedo

    Posts: 1036

    Jul 10, 2012 3:09 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    nanidesukedo said
    No sacrifice of care, actually, improved care. Part of the "obamacare" plan are incentives for patient centered medical home models of care, which are showing over and over again to improve the health outcomes of patient populations. About 40% of my current clinic census is insured outside of government plans and their care is improving because of this model as well.

    It's only gonna get better from here.

    Not what most think, but won't come to pass anyway. Enjoy the Kool Aid.


    You should bother to actually look up the outcomes of patients in patient centered medical homes...the data is there. No kool aid for me...just denial for you. It's a great read and truly emphasizes what the goals of healthcare should be.
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    Jul 10, 2012 3:24 AM GMT
    nanidesukedo said
    socalfitness said
    nanidesukedo said
    No sacrifice of care, actually, improved care. Part of the "obamacare" plan are incentives for patient centered medical home models of care, which are showing over and over again to improve the health outcomes of patient populations. About 40% of my current clinic census is insured outside of government plans and their care is improving because of this model as well.

    It's only gonna get better from here.

    Not what most think, but won't come to pass anyway. Enjoy the Kool Aid.


    You should bother to actually look up the outcomes of patients in patient centered medical homes...the data is there. No kool aid for me...just denial for you. It's a great read and truly emphasizes what the goals of healthcare should be.

    Speaking of denial, you called the article I cited here "lame ass" or something similar. Your friend q. on this site vouched for her credentials. She said Obamacare would unravel. I don't know if you've read it or not, but you have not been willing to explain how her vision is incorrect versus yours. Given your unwillingness to address her points, and the opinions differing from yours from every physician I know involved in private practice, I will not put stock in anything you say. http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2494613
  • nanidesukedo

    Posts: 1036

    Jul 10, 2012 3:29 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    nanidesukedo said
    socalfitness said
    nanidesukedo said
    No sacrifice of care, actually, improved care. Part of the "obamacare" plan are incentives for patient centered medical home models of care, which are showing over and over again to improve the health outcomes of patient populations. About 40% of my current clinic census is insured outside of government plans and their care is improving because of this model as well.

    It's only gonna get better from here.

    Not what most think, but won't come to pass anyway. Enjoy the Kool Aid.


    You should bother to actually look up the outcomes of patients in patient centered medical homes...the data is there. No kool aid for me...just denial for you. It's a great read and truly emphasizes what the goals of healthcare should be.

    Speaking of denial, you called the article I cited here "lame ass" or something similar. Your friend q. on this site vouched for her credentials. She said Obamacare would unravel. I don't know if you've read it or not, but you have not been willing to explain how her vision is incorrect versus yours. Given your unwillingness to address her points, and the opinions differing from yours from every physician I know involved in private practice, I will not put stock in anything you say. http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2494613


    Sorry you and your private practitioners don't agree, back to the topic now of how large group based and hospital practices have been taking over for a while.
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    Jul 10, 2012 3:32 AM GMT
    nanidesukedo said
    socalfitness said
    nanidesukedo said
    socalfitness said
    nanidesukedo said
    No sacrifice of care, actually, improved care. Part of the "obamacare" plan are incentives for patient centered medical home models of care, which are showing over and over again to improve the health outcomes of patient populations. About 40% of my current clinic census is insured outside of government plans and their care is improving because of this model as well.

    It's only gonna get better from here.

    Not what most think, but won't come to pass anyway. Enjoy the Kool Aid.


    You should bother to actually look up the outcomes of patients in patient centered medical homes...the data is there. No kool aid for me...just denial for you. It's a great read and truly emphasizes what the goals of healthcare should be.

    Speaking of denial, you called the article I cited here "lame ass" or something similar. Your friend q. on this site vouched for her credentials. She said Obamacare would unravel. I don't know if you've read it or not, but you have not been willing to explain how her vision is incorrect versus yours. Given your unwillingness to address her points, and the opinions differing from yours from every physician I know involved in private practice, I will not put stock in anything you say. http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2494613


    Sorry you and your private practitioners don't agree, back to the topic now of how large group based and hospital practices have been taking over for a while.

    Clearly among the indigent and uninsured. Most likely, the pool of registered voters, and even more so likely voters, will continue to be influenced by physicians in private practice and will vote accordingly.
  • nanidesukedo

    Posts: 1036

    Jul 10, 2012 3:36 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    nanidesukedo said
    socalfitness said
    nanidesukedo said
    socalfitness said
    nanidesukedo said
    No sacrifice of care, actually, improved care. Part of the "obamacare" plan are incentives for patient centered medical home models of care, which are showing over and over again to improve the health outcomes of patient populations. About 40% of my current clinic census is insured outside of government plans and their care is improving because of this model as well.

    It's only gonna get better from here.

    Not what most think, but won't come to pass anyway. Enjoy the Kool Aid.


    You should bother to actually look up the outcomes of patients in patient centered medical homes...the data is there. No kool aid for me...just denial for you. It's a great read and truly emphasizes what the goals of healthcare should be.

    Speaking of denial, you called the article I cited here "lame ass" or something similar. Your friend q. on this site vouched for her credentials. She said Obamacare would unravel. I don't know if you've read it or not, but you have not been willing to explain how her vision is incorrect versus yours. Given your unwillingness to address her points, and the opinions differing from yours from every physician I know involved in private practice, I will not put stock in anything you say. http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2494613


    Sorry you and your private practitioners don't agree, back to the topic now of how large group based and hospital practices have been taking over for a while.

    Clearly among the indigent and uninsured. Most likely, the pool of registered voters, and even more so likely voters, will continue to be influenced by physicians in private practice and will vote accordingly.


    Unfortunately, private practices are a dying breed. No one will deny that. They decrease by the day and will soon be a thing of the past except for concierge practices.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3270

    Jul 10, 2012 3:40 AM GMT


    I am in a large group, but we are a unique entity.

    I think you should keep an open mind. So early in your career you seem to automatically associate with "large group/hospital". Circumstance may bring you exactly in the opposite place you thought you would be in the future.