Questions For One-Staters - and no answers. Revealing that the so-called "one-state 'solution'" is a bankrupt fraud designed to destroy Israel and replace it with one Arab state.

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    Jul 16, 2012 3:16 PM GMT
    Questions For One-Staters
    by Ziad J. Asali

    26 June 2012

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/26/questions-for-one-staters.html

    Supporters of the two-state solution are often told that this vision is unrealistic and has become unachievable. Young, idealistic seekers of justice and equality are increasingly offering what they claim is a more "realistic" solution: a single state for all Israelis and Palestinians, including refugees.

    Here are ten questions that might help these single-staters think through the feasibility of the project they have in mind:

    1- How do we negotiate, implement or impose a single state in “Israel-Palestine”? Would it require a UN Security Council or General Assembly resolution dissolving the State of Israel? Does it need the voluntary dissolution of the State of Israel? Negotiations without negotiators? A military solution imposed by the international community or by the armed forces of Palestine and neighboring Arab countries?

    2- Remembering that it is advocated by those Palestinians most opposed to Israel, what are the realistic prospects of gaining significant support for this idea among Jewish Israelis?

    3- Should the Palestinian Authority disappear altogether? Would it be replaced by the Israeli bureaucracy or would the PA and the Knesset somehow merge, or be forced together by outside powers, and if so, how and by whom? Who would head the government? Or who would (at least) lead a transitional government until a unified one is formed, and how long would the transition last?

    4- Would all citizens of this state become instantly equal before the law, with all rights and responsibilities of the citizen, without discrimination? Who will define these terms and implement them, and who will oversee the process?

    5- Would the current educational systems be merged after the establishment of the single state? Would there be an official, hybrid, historical narrative? Or would the two narratives be taught simultaneously?

    6- Would the armed forces of this state result from a merger of the existing forces? Would all citizens be eligible to join? Would the leaderships of the existing armed forces continue to be the same, or would they be replaced by some other leadership, and if so, whom?

    7- Would there be an affirmative action program to integrate the disadvantaged into various systems, public and private? Would it be phased in over years, decades or centuries?

    8- Would land ownership revert to the status quo in 1948 and 1967? How would competing property claims be managed and by whom?

    9- What would be the national symbols, holidays and anthems of this new state?

    10- What would happen regarding the occupation and settlements while these questions remain unaddressed?

    Finally, would it not be fair to ask one-state advocates if their talents, energies and time have been diverted from the fight to achieve freedom for Palestine? Haven't they fashioned, instead, yet another tool that will preserve the status quo and prolong the occupation?

    Warning: certain well known RJ trolls have attempted to hijack this topic by repeatedly spamming off-topic posts.
    Please click on "Report Spam" and then "Ignore His Posts" for easier reading of the topic - don't "feed" the trolls.

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    Jul 16, 2012 3:17 PM GMT
    See also:

    Two-state solution key to achieving peace
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2516200

    UN Security Council Resolution 242, Oslo Accords, Camp David & Taba.
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/354843

    Yalla, Peace!
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1285693

    Revisiting the Clinton Compromise Parameters
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2271313
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    Aug 24, 2012 7:05 PM GMT
    In another thread:
    (Why can't the usual suspects ever discuss a topic in its thread, instead always seeking to divert a topic from its subject by raising other issues?)

    IanCT said
    Wolverine4 said
    Consider, for example, ianct. He has told us that Jews have to "get out".
    His "one-state 'solution'" is an Arab-only state.


    illegal Jewish settlers have to "get out".

    How can there be an Arab state? There are Jews living there too.

    If it's a "one-state 'solution'", then how can Jewish villagers be "illegal settlers"?
    Either it's one state for all the people... or it isn't.

    There is a Jewish state despite 1.2 Million Arabs living in it.

    Looks like ianct just confused himself dizzy. One second arguing for a "one-state 'solution'", the next saying that Jews have to get out of a prospective Palestinian Arab state for it to be.

    I think we all know what he really seeks, and that is the destruction of Israel and sending Jews "back" to "Europe" (because, despite his childish word games, in his final analysis ALL Jews are "illegal settlers").
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    Aug 24, 2012 8:18 PM GMT
    You do know the so-called "illegal Jewish villagers" happen to be Palestinian properties / lands? Right? It is against Israel's law to build illegal outposts on Palestinian lands. For example, Israeli settlers annexed privately-owned Palestinian land to expand an illegal outpost in south of Hebron. How do I know that? I used to lived in Bethlehem. Do you think it is right take over Palestinian homes and gave it to the illegal Israeli settlers?

    Do you have any relatives that are Israeli settlers?
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    Aug 24, 2012 10:35 PM GMT
    ianct> illegal Jewish settlers have to "get out".

    If it's a "one-state 'solution'", then how can Jewish villagers be "illegal settlers"?
    Either it's one state for all the people... or it isn't.


    ianct> the so-called "illegal Jewish villagers" happen to be Palestinian properties... Do you think it is right take over Palestinian homes

    No, I don't think that's right. But the fact of the matter is that most of the Jewish villages are NOT built on private property let alone by "stealing" someone's home. In these rare cases, Israeli courts have ruled in your favor..

    As usual, you're mixing up different things in an effort to concoct something bigger which isn't true.

    The majority of Jewish village are built on land that was either owned by Jews prior to 1948 (e.g. Har Homa) or which has been PURCHASED since. (Recall this is why one of the first laws passed by the PA was a racist prohibition on selling land to Jews! Not just a token show of solidarity, but a law making this a capital offense - punishable by death!)

    Do you agree with this racist PA?

    There are also cases where private property rights are disputed, or where the landlord sold a building and the tenants are caught in the middle.

    Now try to answer my question.

    If you believe in a "one-state 'solution'", how can you claim that it is "illegal" for Jews to live in Judea, Samaria and eastern Jerusalem?



    ianct> How can there be an Arab state? There are Jews living there too.

    There is a Jewish state despite 1.2 Million Arabs living in it.

    So there can be a two-state solution with an Arab state.
    Why then do you oppose it?
    (Oh, that's right, because that would fail to satisfy your agenda which isn't to build an Arab state but to destroy the Jewish state.)


    ianct just confused himself dizzy. One second arguing for a "one-state 'solution'", the next saying that Jews have to get out of a prospective Palestinian Arab state for it to be.

    ianct> ?


    I think we all know what he really seeks, and that is the destruction of Israel and sending Jews "back" to "Europe" (because, despite his childish word games, in his final analysis ALL Jews are "illegal settlers").

    ianct> ?

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    Aug 24, 2012 10:52 PM GMT
    What are you so conderned about LIL'AIPAC ?


    YOU AND YOUR PROFESSOR FATHER ARE OF THE OPINION THAT PALESTINIANS HOMELAND IS IN JORDAN,

    YOU'VE REPEATEDLY CLAIMED THAT PALESTINIANS HAVE NO HOMELAND, THAT PALESTINE NEVER EXISTED ?


    SO WHY THIS TALK ABOUT A TWO STATE SOLUTION ?


    LIL'AIPAC, YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS, YOU ZIONISTS CANNOT SAY ON ONE HAND THAT PALESTINIANS DON'T BELONG IN THE WEST BANK, THEN SAY THAT YOU WANT A STATE FOR PALESTINIANS IN THE WEST BANK WHILST YOU FUCKING ZIONISTS TAKE THEIR LAND FOR SETTLEMENTS ?


    WHICH WAY DO YOU WANT IT LIL'AIPAC ?

    1. ARE YOU SUGGESTING THE ZIONISTS STOP THE THEFT OF LAND FOR JEWISH SETTLEMENTS SO THE PALESTINIANS CAN HAVE A
    STATE ?

    2. OR DO YOU WANT TO KEEP THE GOD DAMN ZIONIST SETTLEMENTS BEING BUILT AND RUN OFF ALL THE PALESTINIANS TO JORDAN BECAUSE AS YOU"VE SAID IT NEVER BELONGED TO THEM ANY WAY ?


    MAKE UP YOUR FUCKING MIND IDIOT, DO YOU WANT TO BE A PAIN IN THE ASS ZIONIST THIEF AND SEND THEM TO JORDAN, OR DO YOU WANT TO STOP THE SETTLEMENT THEFT SO PALESTINIANS CAN LIVE IN PEACE IN THEIR PALESTINIAN HOMELAND ON THE WEST BANK ?
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    Aug 24, 2012 10:54 PM GMT
    Does Israel really support a two-state solution? It doesn't. Palestine would be independent by now if that were the case. The reality is, regardless of whether a majority of Palestinians in the Palestinian territories of West Bank and Gaza wanted a two-state solution or not, Israel would not let them become an independent state.
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    Aug 24, 2012 11:11 PM GMT
    Jaxe> Does Israel really support a two-state solution?

    Yes, and it has a long history of doing so.
    In 1937, it accepted the Peel Commissions principle of partition.
    In 1947, it accepted the UN partition compromise.
    In 1967, it accepted UNSCR 242.
    In 2000, it accepted the Clinton compromise parameters.
    in 2008, Olmert further sweetened that deal (to no avail).

    Just think: At any of these points (or in between), had the Arab parties also said "yes" there'd already be a Palestinian Arab state.

    Furthermore, as already referenced above::

    Two-state solution key to achieving peace

    UN Security Council Resolution 242, Oslo Accords, Camp David & Taba.

    Revisiting the Clinton Compromise Parameters



    The question im this thread is if the so-called "one-state 'solution'" is viable.
    Can you (or anyone) address the questions in the OP?
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    Aug 24, 2012 11:26 PM GMT
    LIL'AIPAC (W4)

    DO YOU REMEMBER YOUR PROFESSOR FATHERS ARTICLE TITLED:


    WHO NEEDS A SECOND PALESTINIAN HOMELAND ?


    BY RAOUL KOPELMAN ?



    LIL'AIPAC you have repeatedly post after post stated that "PALESTINE NEVER EXISTED" "YOU HAVE STATED LIKE YOUR FATHER IN THE ABOVE REFERENCED ARTICLE THAT PALESTINIANS HOMELAND IS IN JORDAN





    DO YOU NOW DENY THIS ?????



    Here's a quote from your fathers article:


    "Israel must begin withdrawal" is based on a number of factual errors fed by the factual misrepresentations included in the latest anti-israel UN resolution.......the UN calls now for repatriation of Palestinian refugees......SINCE ONE PALESTINIAN HOMELAND ALREADY EXISTS UNDER THE RULE OF KING HUSSEIN, THE ONLY ARGUMENT IS WHETHER THE WST BANK PALESTINIANS, WHO ARE JORANIAN CITIZENS, SHOULD INSTEAD FORM A SECOND PALESTINIANS STATE....SUCH A STATE WOULD BE A BIG STEP TOWARDS THE DESTRUCTION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL."


    IMAGINE THE GAUL OF THESE ZIONISTS ZEALOTS, BUT IT GETS BETTER !!! HERE'S ANOTHER QUOTE FROM LIL'AIPAC'S AND HIS FATHERS THINKING


    "ISRAEL HAS LONG AGO RECOGNIZED THE RIGHT OF A PALESTINIAN HOMELAND ON THE EAST BANK OF THE JORDAN RIVER. It has furthermore, agreed to give autonomy to the Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza."


    (BUT NO STATE ???? WHY SO ????? THEIR HOMELAND IS IN JORDAN ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE JORDAN RIVER, NOT THE WEST SIDE ACCORDING TO LIL'AIPAC AND HIS FATHER)


    After the above article its credit is to RAOUL KOPELMAN >> A CHEMISTRY PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY




    SO WHICH WAY DO ZIONIST LIARS WANT IT ?? THE ZIONIST ZEALOTS LEADING ISRAEL KEEP RIGHT ON STEALING LAND JUST LIKE THEY BELIEVE THE KOPALMANS ABOVE, LIL'AIPAC DEFENDS THE SETTLEMENT THEFT OF PALESTINIAN LAND, YET TALKS OUT OF THE OTHER SIDE OF HIS MOUTH SAYING HE THINKS THERE SHOULD BE A TWO STATE SOLUTION.


    LIL'AIPAC, YOU ZIONISTS CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS, THE WOLRD COMMUNITY IS NOT STUPID TO ZIONIST GAMESMANSHIP IN BUYING TIME AT PLAYING WITH PEACE WHILE STEALING THE LAND.
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    Aug 24, 2012 11:41 PM GMT
    Jaxe saidDoes Israel really support a two-state solution? It doesn't. Palestine would be independent by now if that were the case. The reality is, regardless of whether a majority of Palestinians in the Palestinian territories of West Bank and Gaza wanted a two-state solution or not, Israel would not let them become an independent state.









    LIL'AIPAC has for years played this game here on RJ of claiming being for a two state soluion yet keeps defending the theft of land for settlements from the land on the Palestinian side of the 1967 UN and Internationally accepted lines. Land set aside for a Palestinian state.

    Israels actions in the above and the likes of LIL'AIPAC's defending the land theft is in effect stealing the opportunity of a two state solution.

    So you decide, which side of this guys mouth does he want to talk out of ? Is it all because he likes to argue, are the zionist zealot LIKUD'S led by Netenyahu just playing this fucked up 'peace game' to buy time enough to complete the theft of so much palestinian land that a two state solucion is impossible ? IT SURE LOOKS LIKE IT !!!! why else would you steal land that is occupied unless you intended to keep it ?


    Once a two state solution is made impossible by all the settlement theft of land, then what rights and privileges will the Palestinians have ? Is the Zionist purpose to send the Palestinians away, purhaps to the East side of the Jordan river as LIL'AIPAC's father suggests and as LIL'AIPAC appears to agree with by his many posts. KEEP IN MIND THIS CIRCULAR CONVERSATION WITH LIL'AIPAC HAS GONE ON FOR NEARLY 4 YEARs, that's why some of us call him out on these two sided obnoxious tactics.

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    Aug 25, 2012 6:24 AM GMT
    yourname2000 saidI'm sure Hitler himself is looking up from Hell and smiling at the current "state" of Israel....no one learned the lessons of Nazi hatred as fervently as its leaders did. They seem determined to do to the Palestinians over 50 years what was done to them in 5.

    And Wolverine would be their Joseph Goebbels. icon_rolleyes.gif




    Notice that LIL'AIPAC (wolverine) refuses to acknowledge or discuss the exposing of his abject Hypocrisy in the premise of this topic. on the one side he claims to promote a two state solution while on the other he vehemently defends Israels right to settlement building on Palestinian land because as he has gone in great detail to explain on other topics he's started, that Palestine never existed, that they have no homeland unless its in Jordan on the east side of the Jordan River, not in the West Bank.


    What can be said about such hypocrisy ? Reading this hypocrite LIL'AIPAC's postings from just this topic, doesn't even come close to giving a complete picture of just how twisted the whole picture is with his rhetoric.
    He's done this for going on 3 to 4 years since I've been on the site.

    One of his topics that he's resurected from time to time was>>
    "Palestine" is the Latin/European name for Eretz Israel.. dated November 2008 in which he went to great length stating that Palestine didn't exist, that Palestinians have no homeland in the West Bank, that it all belongs to Israel to the Jordan river. Hense his defense of the Settlement building which is pushing the Palestinians off their West Bank Homeland (the homeland that is that the international community recognizes as their historical homeland)

    He can't have it both ways.
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    Aug 25, 2012 7:52 AM GMT
    Wolverine4 saidJaxe> Does Israel really support a two-state solution?

    Yes, and it has a long history of doing so.
    In 1937, it accepted the Peel Commissions principle of partition.
    In 1947, it accepted the UN partition compromise.
    In 1967, it accepted UNSCR 242.
    In 2000, it accepted the Clinton compromise parameters.
    in 2008, Olmert further sweetened that deal (to no avail).

    Just think: At any of these points (or in between), had the Arab parties also said "yes" there'd already be a Palestinian Arab state.

    Furthermore, as already referenced above::

    Two-state solution key to achieving peace

    UN Security Council Resolution 242, Oslo Accords, Camp David & Taba.

    Revisiting the Clinton Compromise Parameters



    The question im this thread is if the so-called "one-state 'solution'" is viable.
    Can you (or anyone) address the questions in the OP?


    I am sure Palestine would accept being an independent state in the West Bank and Gaza over the status quo.

    "In a 2007 poll in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank by the Jerusalem Media & Communication Centre, 46.7% of respondents favored a two-state solution, followed by 26.5% for a binational state."

    But Israel does not want that to happen. You see, a large portion of the Israeli government believes in a one-state solution, that is the Israeli one-state solution of complete colonization.

    482px-West_Bank_%26_Gaza_Map_2007_%28Set

    Netanyahu may have attempted to act like he was endorsing a two-state solution with this statement of his. What he was in fact doing, was endorsing the status quo:

    "On June 14, 2009, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gave a speech at Bar Ilan University endorsing the establishment of a Palestinian state west of the Jordan River, a first in his career. He proposed that the state have limited to no control of its own borders, military, airspace, or foreign relations, and that no Palestinians be allowed right of return to property in Israeli territory. Netanyahu also repeatedly called on the Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state."

    Yes, he actually had the stupidity to imply that a "Palestinian state" would have "limited to no control of its own borders, military, airspace, or foreign relations". That doesn't sound like a state, it sounds like a colony.
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    Aug 25, 2012 8:03 AM GMT
    yourname2000 saidI'm sure Hitler himself is looking up from Hell and smiling at the current "state" of Israel....no one learned the lessons of Nazi hatred as fervently as its leaders did. They seem determined to do to the Palestinians over 50 years what was done to them in 5.

    Ah, the usual idiocy of false comparisons from small minds.

    The nazis set out to destroy all Jews and murdered nearly 10,000 a day, every day, during the "Final Solution".
    (Needless to say, they didn't accept 3rd party compromises meeting others 99% of the way.)

    In Israel, over the last 12 years, less than that [daily] amount [of 10,000] have been killed (only 5% of them women, the majority being males of fighting age - mostly involved in hostilities).

    Indeed, over the last 50-64 years, there is still no comparison.
    This is one of the least bloody conflicts in modern times (I think it ranks #49).

    In Poland, over "5" years, the nazis murdered 90% of Poland's 3 million Jews.
    In Israel and the territories, "over [the last] 50 years", the Palestinian Arab population has continuously grown.
    (One of, if not the, largest population growth rates in the world.)

    One might think yourname2000 would harbor more hate for perpetrators of mass murder rather than for the Jewish state (he's so off the deep end that he puts that word in scare quotes). Or even if he is limited to focusing on the middle east, he might allocate some of his hate to Saddam Hussein (killed hundreds of thousands of his own people over a couple decades) or Papa Assad (killed 15,000-60,000 people in one week) or Jordan (may have killed more Palestinian Arabs in one month, black September, than Israel has in 64 years). Even if he restricted himself to current conflicts, Syria has killed more people in the last year than Israel has in 64 years.

    Remember what I said about trolls never being able to address a topic?
    Instead they are relegated to crawling out from under their rock to dribble their hate on others.
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    Aug 25, 2012 8:24 AM GMT
    Jaxe> I am sure Palestine would accept being an independent state in the West Bank and Gaza over the status quo.

    Please then explain why Arafat rejected such in 2000/2001.
    Please also explain why Abbas rejected such in 2008.


    Jaxe> "In a 2007 poll in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank by the Jerusalem Media & Communication Centre, 46.7% of respondents favored a two-state solution, followed by 26.5% for a binational state."

    That's right. The PEOPLE (not well represented by Fatah let alone Hamas) prefer the two-state solution by almost 2x over the so-called "one-state 'solution'". Sounds like you are agreeing with me.

    Jaxe> But Israel does not want that to happen.

    How odd then that an outright majority (not just a plurality) of Israelis support the two-state solution, and that Israeli governments have officially and repeatedly not only proposed solutions based on this, but also accepted solutions such as proposed by President Clinton.

    Jaxe> On June 14, 2009, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gave a speech at Bar Ilan University.... He proposed that the state have limited to no control of its own borders, military, airspace, or foreign relations....

    All he said is that it would be "demilitarized".
    Here's is the complete text of that speech.
    Please quote from it... if you can.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/full-text-of-netanyahu-s-foreign-policy-speech-at-bar-ilan-1.277922


    Jaxe> "Netanyahu also repeatedly called on the Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state."

    Well, duh. That's the basis of the two-state solution.
    One Arab, one Jewish.

    You can't be for the two-state solution yet against Israel being the state of the Jews.
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    Aug 25, 2012 4:18 PM GMT
    C4 - Wolverine4 said, "How can Jewish villagers be illegal settlers?"

    Anyone that build illegal outposts on the stolen Palestinian lands or taking Palestinian homes by force is illegal. If Israelis want a one state solution, then they should be fair enough to live side by side with the lovely and friendly Palestinian people.

    Ian said, "Do you have any relatives that are Israeli settlers?"

    C4 - Wolverine4 said, "...."
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    Aug 25, 2012 4:56 PM GMT
    IanCT saidC4 - Wolverine4 said, "How can Jewish villagers be illegal settlers?"

    Anyone that build illegal outposts on the stolen Palestinian lands or taking Palestinian homes by force is illegal. If Israelis want a one state solution, then they should be fair enough to live side by side with the lovely and friendly Palestinian people.

    Ian said, "Do you have any relatives that are Israeli settlers?"

    C4 - Wolverine4 said, "...."



    LIL'AIPAC won't answer hard questions that fall outside of his set of propaganda responses. As obnoxious as he is in his Zionist Fanaticism I hope he doesn't have like minded relatives in the settlements because they would just represent more bigotry against Palestinians in their homelands on the West Bank.
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    Aug 25, 2012 5:28 PM GMT
    Jaxe said
    Wolverine4 saidJaxe> Does Israel really support a two-state solution?

    Yes, and it has a long history of doing so.
    In 1937, it accepted the Peel Commissions principle of partition.
    In 1947, it accepted the UN partition compromise.
    In 1967, it accepted UNSCR 242.
    In 2000, it accepted the Clinton compromise parameters.
    in 2008, Olmert further sweetened that deal (to no avail).

    Just think: At any of these points (or in between), had the Arab parties also said "yes" there'd already be a Palestinian Arab state.

    Furthermore, as already referenced above::

    Two-state solution key to achieving peace

    UN Security Council Resolution 242, Oslo Accords, Camp David & Taba.

    Revisiting the Clinton Compromise Parameters



    The question im this thread is if the so-called "one-state 'solution'" is viable.
    Can you (or anyone) address the questions in the OP?


    I am sure Palestine would accept being an independent state in the West Bank and Gaza over the status quo.

    "In a 2007 poll in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank by the Jerusalem Media & Communication Centre, 46.7% of respondents favored a two-state solution, followed by 26.5% for a binational state."

    But Israel does not want that to happen. You see, a large portion of the Israeli government believes in a one-state solution, that is the Israeli one-state solution of complete colonization.

    482px-West_Bank_%26_Gaza_Map_2007_%28Set

    Netanyahu may have attempted to act like he was endorsing a two-state solution with this statement of his. What he was in fact doing, was endorsing the status quo:

    "On June 14, 2009, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gave a speech at Bar Ilan University endorsing the establishment of a Palestinian state west of the Jordan River, a first in his career. He proposed that the state have limited to no control of its own borders, military, airspace, or foreign relations, and that no Palestinians be allowed right of return to property in Israeli territory. Netanyahu also repeatedly called on the Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state."

    Yes, he actually had the stupidity to imply that a "Palestinian state" would have "limited to no control of its own borders, military, airspace, or foreign relations". That doesn't sound like a a state, it sounds like a colony.






    I AM SO GLAD TO SEE MORE LIKE YOU POSTING !!

    IT'S CLEAR THAT YOU TOO SEE RIGHT THROUGH THE PROPAGANDA AND ARE PUTTING OUT FACTS THAT CONFRONT THE LIES.

    THANK YOU !!!


    Please keep the facts coming, because the abject Hypocrisy from LIL'AIPAC (W-4) and his ilk needs to be exposed. They try to appear saintly as being for the two state solution while promoting such as the ruse, "Palestnians must accept Israel as the Jewish state" (nothing but a ruse to keep the Pals from reclaiming their homes in jerusalem)

    Further they promote the theft of Land for settlements meant for a Palestinian state which effectively places a precondition on the ground then excoriates the Pals for refusing to deal with the thieves until their settlement theft stops, What hypocrisy to claim that it is the Pals putting up preconditions !!

    LIL'AIPAC has frequently promoted the 'rghteousness' of the settlements saying its Israels right to do so because there never was a Palestinian homeland there anyways.

    He claims Arafat is the one who didn't accept the agreement when in fact it was dropped by the next Prime Minister of Israel who didn't like his predecessors offer to Arafat, I believe it in fact was Netanyahu who dropped it then turned around and blamed Arafat which started the propaganda to again blame their victim.

    LIL'AIPAC is representative of the far right LIKUDS running Israel who try to have it both ways, They lay claim to wanting peace through a two state solution but keep taking the land and putting out other veiled blocks to peace. Its worked well because now they've taken up so much land that a seond state is nearly impossible, it all goes with their Zionist Fanatic goal of Eretz Israel (claiming all of 'greater Israel' to the river Jordon) All this while blaming their victims, THESE ARE SHAMEFULLY DISPOTIC TACTICS and sadly our US tax dollars and Chirstian Fundi donations got to promote this travesty !!

    The Zionist Zealot Fanatics want their cake and to eat it too.
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    Aug 25, 2012 9:55 PM GMT
    realifedad said
    IanCT saidC4 - Wolverine4 said, "How can Jewish villagers be illegal settlers?"

    Anyone that build illegal outposts on the stolen Palestinian lands or taking Palestinian homes by force is illegal. If Israelis want a one state solution, then they should be fair enough to live side by side with the lovely and friendly Palestinian people.

    Ian said, "Do you have any relatives that are Israeli settlers?"

    C4 - Wolverine4 said, "...."



    LIL'AIPAC won't answer hard questions that fall outside of his set of propaganda responses. As obnoxious as he is in his Zionist Fanaticism I hope he doesn't have like minded relatives in the settlements because they would just represent more bigotry against Palestinians in their homelands on the West Bank.


    You are right. He is a hardcore Zionist thinks he know it all.
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    Aug 26, 2012 6:51 AM GMT
    IanCT said
    realifedad said
    IanCT saidC4 - Wolverine4 said, "How can Jewish villagers be illegal settlers?"

    Anyone that build illegal outposts on the stolen Palestinian lands or taking Palestinian homes by force is illegal. If Israelis want a one state solution, then they should be fair enough to live side by side with the lovely and friendly Palestinian people.

    Ian said, "Do you have any relatives that are Israeli settlers?"

    C4 - Wolverine4 said, "...."



    LIL'AIPAC won't answer hard questions that fall outside of his set of propaganda responses. As obnoxious as he is in his Zionist Fanaticism I hope he doesn't have like minded relatives in the settlements because they would just represent more bigotry against Palestinians in their homelands on the West Bank.


    You are right. He is a hardcore Zionist thinks he know it all.





    Has our resident hardcore Zionist LIL'AIPAC answered your question yet ? HMMM, bet he doesn't want to answer because that would be admitting to breaking international law.


    Has the Zionist Fanatic LIL'AIPAC answered my question about whether he wants peace and a two state solution or for his fellow Thieves to keep right on stealing Palestinian land for settlements ? I doubt he'll answer that either because it hits too close to exposing his hypocrisy.
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    Aug 26, 2012 8:13 AM GMT
    Look at the illogical circles:

    ianct> Do you have any relatives that are Israeli settlers?"

    I don't, but this is an Irrelevant ad hominem.
    It has no impact on the facts and arguments.


    ianct> the so-called "illegal Jewish villagers" happen to be Palestinian properties... Do you think it is right take over Palestinian homes

    No, I don't think that's right. But the fact of the matter is that most of the Jewish villages are NOT built on private property let alone by "stealing" someone's home. In these rare cases, Israeli courts have ruled in your favor..

    As usual, you're mixing up different things in an effort to concoct something bigger which isn't true.

    The majority of Jewish village are built on land that was either owned by Jews prior to 1948 (e.g. Har Homa) or which has been PURCHASED since.
    There are also cases where private property rights are disputed, or where the landlord sold a building and the tenants are caught in the middle.


    ianct> Anyone that build illegal outposts on the stolen Palestinian lands or taking Palestinian homes by force is illegal.

    Sorry, repeating your false propaganda narrative doesn't change the facts.


    Recall this is why one of the first laws passed by the PA was a racist prohibition on selling land to Jews! Not just a token show of solidarity, but a law making this a capital offense - punishable by death!)

    Do you agree with this racist PA?


    ianct> [won't say]



    If it's a "one-state 'solution'" you seek, then how can Jewish villagers be "illegal settlers"?
    Either it's one state for all the people... or it isn't.


    ianct> Wolverine4 said, "How can Jewish villagers be illegal settlers?"

    Why take the question out of context, let alone fail to answer it and repeat the above?


    If you believe in a "one-state 'solution'", how can you claim that it is "illegal" for Jews to live in Judea, Samaria and eastern Jerusalem?

    ianct> [still nothing]
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 26, 2012 2:51 PM GMT
    ianct> Do you have any relatives that are Israeli settlers?"

    W4>I don't, but this is an Irrelevant ad hominem.
    It has no impact on the facts and arguments.

    Ianct> Then why are you defending them? What part of illegal that you don't understand? Taking away someone else home and land is not illegal? If there is a one state solution, then there should be both people living side by side equal.

    ianct> the so-called "illegal Jewish villagers" happen to be Palestinian properties... Do you think it is right take over Palestinian homes

    W4>No, I don't think that's right. But the fact of the matter is that most of the Jewish villages are NOT built on private property let alone by "stealing" someone's home. In these rare cases, Israeli courts have ruled in your favor..

    Ianct> The Jews have already stolen Palestinian Christian and Muslim homes since the 1948. Yet they are still stealing Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem and several other Palestinian towns. Israel has violated even its own norms and laws in the West Bank, through the confiscation of private Palestinian property and the building of settlements upon them. Palestinians privately own over 40% of the land in settlements located in "settlement blocs," west of the fence being constructed by Israel, including 86.4% of Ma’ale Adumim, 44.3% of Giv'at Ze'ev, 47.7% of Kedumim, and 35.1% of Ariel. Only a small percentage of settlement land was purchased by Jews.

    ianct> Anyone that build illegal outposts on the stolen Palestinian lands or taking Palestinian homes by force is illegal.

    W4> Sorry, repeating your false propaganda narrative doesn't change the facts.

    Ianct> What I was saying above is the facts.
    http://palsolidarity.org/2012/08/hebron-settler-illegally-enters-palestinian-home/

    W4>Recall this is why one of the first laws passed by the PA was a racist prohibition on selling land to Jews! Not just a token show of solidarity, but a law making this a capital offense - punishable by death!)

    W4>Do you agree with this racist PA?

    ianct>I don't blame them... Don't you? I don't find it racist. Look what happen to them, the Palestinians were replaced by Jews from all over the world that were taken their lands and homes. Now they are under the Zionist racist policy. Palestinians cannot return their lands and homes in Israel that was taken from them. They have to be Jews if they want to return their home. Israel has to be so-called "Jewish majority". I find that racist.

    W4> If it's a "one-state 'solution'" you seek, then how can Jewish villagers be "illegal settlers"?

    W4> Either it's one state for all the people... or it isn't. If you believe in a "one-state 'solution'", how can you claim that it is "illegal" for Jews to live in Judea, Samaria and eastern Jerusalem?

    Ianct> I say there should be one state for all the people. You'll be ok if a Palestinian steals an Israeli home and a land too? Would that considers illegal? I don't consider them (Jews) illegal that already legal bought some lands in Judea and Samaria (West Bank). I only say Jews that stealing Palestinian homes and lands are illegal.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 26, 2012 3:41 PM GMT
    IanCT saidianct> Do you have any relatives that are Israeli settlers?"

    W4>I don't, but this is an Irrelevant ad hominem.
    It has no impact on the facts and arguments.

    Ianct> Then why are you defending them? What part of illegal that you don't understand? Taking away someone else home and land is not illegal? If there is a one state solution, then there should be both people living side by side equal.

    ianct> the so-called "illegal Jewish villagers" happen to be Palestinian properties... Do you think it is right take over Palestinian homes

    W4>No, I don't think that's right. But the fact of the matter is that most of the Jewish villages are NOT built on private property let alone by "stealing" someone's home. In these rare cases, Israeli courts have ruled in your favor..

    Ianct> The Jews have already stolen Palestinian Christian and Muslim homes since the 1948. Yet they are still stealing Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem and several other Palestinian towns. Israel has violated even its own norms and laws in the West Bank, through the confiscation of private Palestinian property and the building of settlements upon them. Palestinians privately own over 40% of the land in settlements located in "settlement blocs," west of the fence being constructed by Israel, including 86.4% of Ma’ale Adumim, 44.3% of Giv'at Ze'ev, 47.7% of Kedumim, and 35.1% of Ariel. Only a small percentage of settlement land was purchased by Jews.

    ianct> Anyone that build illegal outposts on the stolen Palestinian lands or taking Palestinian homes by force is illegal.

    W4> Sorry, repeating your false propaganda narrative doesn't change the facts.

    Ianct> What I was saying above is the facts.
    http://palsolidarity.org/2012/08/hebron-settler-illegally-enters-palestinian-home/

    W4>Recall this is why one of the first laws passed by the PA was a racist prohibition on selling land to Jews! Not just a token show of solidarity, but a law making this a capital offense - punishable by death!)

    W4>Do you agree with this racist PA?

    ianct>I don't blame them... Don't you? I don't find it racist. Look what happen to them, the Palestinians were replaced by Jews from all over the world that were taken their lands and homes. Now they are under the Zionist racist policy. Palestinians cannot return their lands and homes in Israel that was taken from them. They have to be Jews if they want to return their home. Israel has to be so-called "Jewish majority". I find that racist.

    W4> If it's a "one-state 'solution'" you seek, then how can Jewish villagers be "illegal settlers"?

    W4> Either it's one state for all the people... or it isn't. If you believe in a "one-state 'solution'", how can you claim that it is "illegal" for Jews to live in Judea, Samaria and eastern Jerusalem?

    Ianct> I say there should be one state for all the people. You'll be ok if a Palestinian steals an Israeli home and a land too? Would that considers illegal? I don't consider them (Jews) illegal that already legal bought some lands in Judea and Samaria (West Bank). I only say Jews that stealing Palestinian homes and lands are illegal.





    _________________________________________________________


    SUCCESS IANCT !!!!

    I see we chided the Zionist Fanatic into finally answering your question, of course dipped right back into spreading more propaganda, he knows God damn well that the Zionists were responsible for pushing hundreds of thousand of Palestinians off their land and out of their homes, he just doesn't want to admit it because the facts expose his propaganda lies.



    NOW LETS SEE IF THE ZIONIST FANATIC LIL'AIPAC WILL ANSWER TO HIS HYPOCRISY ABOUT PROMOTING THEFT OF PALESTINIAN STATE LAND BY SETTLEMENT BUILDING THAT HE SAYS DOESN'T BELONG TO PALESTINIANS ANYWAY. THIS WHILE OUT OF THE OTHER SIDE OF HIS MOUTH CLAIMING TO BE FOR A TWO STATE SOLUTION.


    LIL'AIPAC CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS, EITHER THERE IS TO BE A STATE FOR PALESTINIANS MINUS THE SETTLEMENT THEFT OR A ONE STATE SOLUTION WHERE PALESTINIANS AND JEWS CAN LIVE ANYWHERE AND THE PALESTINIANS CAN COME BACK TO THEIR HOMES IN JERUSALEM AND OTHER LOCATIONS TAKEN AWAY BY THE ZIONIST ZEALOTS THROUGH THE YEARS.


    ALL IN CAPS SO LIL'AIPAC CAN READ THE FACTS A LITTLE EASIER, SINCE HE HAS SUCH A HARD TIME WITH FACTUAL READING.




    ANSWERS LIL'AIPAC ??????????????????????????????
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 26, 2012 3:51 PM GMT
    I do have one curious question for those on the side of Palestine...

    If you believe that Israel has illegally taken Palestine's land and that they should give it back, do you believe that we should give most of the US back to the Natives, and the Southwest back to Mexico?
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    Aug 26, 2012 4:03 PM GMT
    libertpaulian saidI do have one curious question for those on the side of Palestine...

    If you believe that Israel has illegally taken Palestine's land and that they should give it back, do you believe that we should give most of the US back to the Natives, and the Southwest back to Mexico?




    Well, your question has been posed many a time, the difference is that the land taken by the Israeli Zionists is against international law which plainly set aside that land for a Palestinian homeland. The Israeli's were granted a gift in having a Jewish Homeland with the Idea of their homeland being next to the Palestinian Homeland.

    There was no such situation involving the US government and the American Indians. Does this defference make what was done against the Indian fair or right ? not in the least, but that was then under no laws to the contrary and not our fault for the past. The Palestinian / Israeli situation is here and now and there are laws in place that the Israeli Zionist Zealots seeking 'greater Israel' should adhere to if they wish to be accepted legitimately in the international community which gave them their country.
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    Aug 27, 2012 7:08 AM GMT
    ianct> Do you have any relatives that are Israeli settlers?"

    I don't, but this is an Irrelevant ad hominem.
    It has no impact on the facts and arguments.


    ianct> Then why are you defending them? What part of illegal that you don't understand? Taking away someone else home and land is not illegal?

    Where have I defended anyone who stole someone else's land/home?

    At issue is IF this was done.

    Was any land "stolen" at Gush Etzion or Har Homa?

    Why yes, it was. But not by Jews/"settlers".... but by Arabs.

    So in your warped mind it's ok for Arabs to steal land from Jews (i.e. take it by force) but not ok for Jews to PURCHASE back that land?