Age disparities in early sexual relationships

  • kohbunny

    Posts: 7

    Jul 22, 2012 6:08 PM GMT
    I'm not really sure how to ask this question. I had my first boyfriend when I was 13. He was older--about 25 or 26--but it was totally consensual. I've been thinking about him a lot lately because of the scandal at Penn State (I'm from State College). I really regret the experience because it continues to affect my relationships and the way that I see myself. I don't resent the guy--I still talk to him, actually--but I'm just trying to understand why I feel so terrible about it.

    Is there something inherently wrong about consensual relationships between adults and young teenagers? I think that it can be damaging based on what I've learned about brain development; and yet it's such a normative thing in the gay subculture. I always meet guys who like teenagers. My last boyfriend even left me for a fifteen year-old. He's 32. What do you guys think about this subject?
  • mindblank

    Posts: 275

    Jul 22, 2012 9:30 PM GMT
    I disbelieve this.

    You are clearly a troll.
  • kohbunny

    Posts: 7

    Jul 22, 2012 9:43 PM GMT
    No, I swear that I'm being sincere about this. I'm sorry if my post was off topic...maybe the mental health forum would have been better! I'm just really curious to know what other people think. Or if anyone has had similar experiences.
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    Jul 23, 2012 12:04 AM GMT
    kohbunny saidI'm not really sure how to ask this question. I had my first boyfriend when I was 13. He was older--about 25 or 26--but it was totally consensual. I've been thinking about him a lot lately because of the scandal at Penn State (I'm from State College). I really regret the experience because it continues to affect my relationships and the way that I see myself. I don't resent the guy--I still talk to him, actually--but I'm just trying to understand why I feel so terrible about it.

    Is there something inherently wrong about consensual relationships between adults and young teenagers? I think that it can be damaging based on what I've learned about brain development; and yet it's such a normative thing in the gay subculture. I always meet guys who like teenagers. My last boyfriend even left me for a fifteen year-old. He's 32. What do you guys think about this subject?


    Your post seems less about age disparity and more about pedophilia**, which is not normal among people who are gay. I recommend you seek professional help to assist you in sorting this out.

    **http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia
    As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia, or paedophilia, is defined as a psychiatric disorder in persons who are 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (generally those under the age of 14, though onset of puberty varies). The prepubescent child must be at least five years younger than the person before the attraction can be diagnosed as pedophilia



  • kohbunny

    Posts: 7

    Jul 23, 2012 1:21 AM GMT

    theantijockYour post seems less about age disparity and more about pedophilia**, which is not normal among people who are gay. I recommend you seek professional help to assist you in sorting this out.


    @theantijock --Thanks for the reply. I didn't mean to refer to clinical pedophilia, exactly, but I'm probably not explaining myself very well. I'm not sure if this is accurate, but to me, it seems like the gay community is particularly fixated on youthfulness. I think that it's almost worse for us than it is for women. Hell, I felt old by the time I was 22.

    Maybe I'm hanging out with the wrong people, but I know so many guys who will only date teenagers, or men who are substantially younger. Even when it isn't an issue of consent, I don't really understand the appeal of a boyfriend who lives with his parents, wears braces, and isn't able to go to the bar with you.

    I really don't mean to offend anyone, and I'm definitely way too sensitive about this myself, probably because I'm nearing thirty. But it just irks me that this is so normal to many guys--that they will only date men who are really young and in theory less mature--and that they could care less about the impact that it might have on the people they're pursuing. I might be completely wrong, but if you can only date guys who fit into some narrow category, to the exclusion of any substantive qualities...it doesn't seem healthy. I'm just curious to know if anyone else thinks about these things.
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    Jul 23, 2012 3:37 AM GMT
    A 26-year-old who forms a sexual relationship with a 13-year-old is a pedophile regardless of how you or he have justified that relationship in your own minds.

    Single culture is fixated on youth, str8 or gay. Adults having sex with young teenagers is not a fixation, it is a perversion. As well, i suspect that str8 or gays who are attracted to mid-aged teens, say 15-17, are pretty much just trying to keep it as legal as they can get away with.

    I knew a guy like that. He wouldn't touch anyone under 18 but he'd destroy the relationship as soon as they grew facial hair. He did have a huge aversion to actual, acted-upon pedophilia, which seemed to me to be his way of controlling himself from going after the very young ones. He often said someone who does should be shot. But in all my years, he's the only one I ever knew on a friendship or even acquaintence level.

    Sometimes I'd go with him to the twink dancer bars/strip joints when he'd ask me along but I was always very uncomfortable there. I assume that's where you are hanging out to have gotten the impression that lots of gay people are that way about teens. That is only a small subgroup of gay or probably also str8 culture.

    I think you ought to seek counseling to better understand just how having a sexual relationship with such an older person might have influenced your thinking from such a young age. It could help you to understand the pattern you seem to be finding yourself in of hooking up with guys who eventually leave you for younger.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 23, 2012 11:35 AM GMT
    Op..For the love of God..
    Take a deep breath...one more...
    Read your opening post....

    icon_eek.gifAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!icon_eek.gif

    (Should Bakeract you !)
  • kohbunny

    Posts: 7

    Jul 23, 2012 1:43 PM GMT
    Bakeract?

    Oh, the Baker Act. Hehe...do I sound that bad?

    @theantijock--I probably do spend too much time in bars. But I don't think that these things are exceptional. Even beyond youthfulness, in the gay community there's always some tacit narcissistic message that you're only worthwhile in this world if you're attractive. As if happiness comes from how skillfully you can present yourself to people. And where does that leave you if you're not 21, or you're not muscular and pretty?
  • mindblank

    Posts: 275

    Jul 23, 2012 11:50 PM GMT
    kohbunny saidAs if happiness comes from how skillfully you can present yourself to people. And where does that leave you if you're not 21, or you're not muscular and pretty?


    I recommend that you now stop complaining and blaming others for what you are feeling, and make moves towards claiming your own happiness. Your happiness is YOUR responsibility and yours alone. Please think about this.

    If you do not command your own happiness - then who will? Are you going to entrust it to the rest of us? You cannot expect others to work towards such a thing. We (all humans/animals) are all out for number 1.

    Right you said muscular so get yow ass in the gym for a start. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jul 24, 2012 1:18 AM GMT
    theantijock saidA 26-year-old who forms a sexual relationship with a 13-year-old is a pedophile regardless of how you or he have justified that relationship in your own minds.

    Hebophile. Pedophilia would suggest pre-puberty. icon_wink.gif
  • kohbunny

    Posts: 7

    Jul 24, 2012 9:44 PM GMT
    mindblankI recommend that you now stop complaining and blaming others for what you are feeling, and make moves towards claiming your own happiness. Your happiness is YOUR responsibility and yours alone. Please think about this.

    If you do not command your own happiness - then who will? Are you going to entrust it to the rest of us? You cannot expect others to work towards such a thing. We (all humans/animals) are all out for number 1.

    Right you said muscular so get yow ass in the gym for a start.


    I agree with you, mostly. But I don't think that anyone lives in a vacuum. Even if you accept responsibility for your own happiness, you still have to figure out how to live in a society that motivates people to feel deficient. I don't think that you can just will away insecurity. Or go to the gym. It's not uncommon to meet attractive, muscular men who have body dysmorphia. Or underweight men who diet.

    I'm not really excited about the prospect of developing lipoatrophy, and aging can be scary. But I'm OK with myself most of the time. This was not intended to be a complaint, exactly...but I really don't know how people recover from low body image. And I meet so many guys who are perpetually dissatisfied with their appearance. It seems so unnecessary.
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    Jul 24, 2012 10:39 PM GMT
    IceBucket said
    theantijock saidA 26-year-old who forms a sexual relationship with a 13-year-old is a pedophile regardless of how you or he have justified that relationship in your own minds.

    Hebophile. Pedophilia would suggest pre-puberty. icon_wink.gif


    Good to know the categories so thanx for that but I'm not convinced that someone going after a kid in his or her early/mid teens isn't just avoiding the potential jail sentence and stigma of getting caught with someone even younger.

    Also, some contend that the age*** of puberty has been changing and different bodies** mature at different ages.

    **http://www.cfah.org/hbns/archives/viewSupportDoc.cfm?supportingDocID=936
    "In conclusion, puberty does seem to be starting earlier in overweight girls, although obesity in boys seems to result in the delay of pubertal onset."

    ***http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/magazine/puberty-before-age-10-a-new-normal.html?pagewanted=all
    "Ainsley began growing pubic hair at age 6"

    So if someone seduced Ainsley when she was 7, that person wouldn't be considered a pedophile? Unlikely.
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    Jul 24, 2012 11:00 PM GMT
    kohbunny said....

    @theantijock--I probably do spend too much time in bars. But I don't think that these things are exceptional. Even beyond youthfulness, in the gay community there's always some tacit narcissistic message that you're only worthwhile in this world if you're attractive. As if happiness comes from how skillfully you can present yourself to people. And where does that leave you if you're not 21, or you're not muscular and pretty?


    As I already said, of all the many gay friends I've had over many years, only one was into kids as described above, so in my experience I've found what you think is normal to be, by far, the exception. Most gay guys love men, not boys. Even nambla** is shunned in the gay community and this is probably one of the only times you'll ever see it referenced on this gay forum.

    **http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association
    NAMBLA is perceived as a front for the criminal sexual exploitation of children, functioning as a meeting place for male pedophiles and pederasts and their sympathizers.
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    Jul 25, 2012 12:22 AM GMT
    this is peadophillia.

    yes i think peadophillia is wrong.

    i had my first sexual relationship with a boy when i was twelve. it was awesome, so no age isnt a factor for me.

    adults having legally non consensual sex with minors is
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    Jul 25, 2012 2:19 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    IceBucket said
    theantijock saidA 26-year-old who forms a sexual relationship with a 13-year-old is a pedophile regardless of how you or he have justified that relationship in your own minds.

    Hebophile. Pedophilia would suggest pre-puberty. icon_wink.gif


    Good to know the categories so thanx for that but I'm not convinced that someone going after a kid in his or her early/mid teens isn't just avoiding the potential jail sentence and stigma of getting caught with someone even younger.

    Also, some contend that the age*** of puberty has been changing and different bodies** mature at different ages.

    **http://www.cfah.org/hbns/archives/viewSupportDoc.cfm?supportingDocID=936
    "In conclusion, puberty does seem to be starting earlier in overweight girls, although obesity in boys seems to result in the delay of pubertal onset."

    ***http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/magazine/puberty-before-age-10-a-new-normal.html?pagewanted=all
    "Ainsley began growing pubic hair at age 6"

    So if someone seduced Ainsley when she was 7, that person wouldn't be considered a pedophile? Unlikely.

    Don't get me wrong - I'm not defending the kind of behavior in the least bit. I'm just a stickler for correct use of words.

    The words are very loose but when a kid is thirteen, they are typically in their teens and thus puberty has started thus proper classification is hebophilia. It does vary from person to person - someone like myself at 13 looked like I was maybe 8 - but on a broad scale of individuals.
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    Jul 25, 2012 8:06 PM GMT
    IceBucket said
    theantijock said
    IceBucket said
    theantijock saidA 26-year-old who forms a sexual relationship with a 13-year-old is a pedophile regardless of how you or he have justified that relationship in your own minds.

    Hebophile. Pedophilia would suggest pre-puberty. icon_wink.gif


    Good to know the categories so thanx for that but I'm not convinced that someone going after a kid in his or her early/mid teens isn't just avoiding the potential jail sentence and stigma of getting caught with someone even younger.

    Also, some contend that the age*** of puberty has been changing and different bodies** mature at different ages.

    **http://www.cfah.org/hbns/archives/viewSupportDoc.cfm?supportingDocID=936
    "In conclusion, puberty does seem to be starting earlier in overweight girls, although obesity in boys seems to result in the delay of pubertal onset."

    ***http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/magazine/puberty-before-age-10-a-new-normal.html?pagewanted=all
    "Ainsley began growing pubic hair at age 6"

    So if someone seduced Ainsley when she was 7, that person wouldn't be considered a pedophile? Unlikely.

    Don't get me wrong - I'm not defending the kind of behavior in the least bit. I'm just a stickler for correct use of words.

    The words are very loose but when a kid is thirteen, they are typically in their teens and thus puberty has started thus proper classification is hebophilia. It does vary from person to person - someone like myself at 13 looked like I was maybe 8 - but on a broad scale of individuals.


    Yes, I got that you were being accurate which I appreciate and I believe you are technically correct. My point being that there are subtleties which classification might consider such as what's going on inside the mind of the perpetrator and not just how an action might appear to play out. Indeed, this is why the perpetrator might not even think himself as perverted, rather, construing in his mind that there is some mutual consent involved. Probably not all of them think they are hurting the child by overpowering them, but expressing love. Certainly that is what nambla tries to justify. Similarly and as I mentioned, someone might be sexing up a teen but in their mind they might be fantasizing a younger child. So while the action might be one classification, the mindset could be quite the other.

    At least that's what I think I saw in this person I was friendly with for many years. Had he no integrity and not the will power to prevent himself from seducing (sharing love, yikes) with much younger kids, I don't believe he would have been able to satisfy himself simply with the very twinky 18/19 year olds which he made due with. He never expressed that outright, but I did follow his eyes to see what he looked at when we were out. And the younger the legal aged twink looked, the more he liked them. As far as I know, he never abused children; and as as far as I could determine, unless there was some mental deterioration, ie dementia, psychosis, whatever, he never would. But that didn't stop me from considering him to be a pedophile, again, not by his actions but by what some of his stares and some of his words and his expressed preferences based upon what was legally available seemed to indicate to me was his thinking.
  • jayatl56

    Posts: 463

    Jul 25, 2012 11:35 PM GMT
    I don't know where it comes from but I'm definitely more attracted to younger guys than guys my age. BUT I'd NEVER go with a teenager. I think it comes from being molested as a young boy. Ever since I've had an aversion to older men. They creeped me out but as I grew older it never changed. My attraction never changed. I was into guys my own age until about 30 and that's where it stopped. My last relationship was with a guy I met while I was living overseas. We met when he was 20 and I was 50. I genuinely thought he was older simply because of his mature look and the way he spoke etc. When I found out he was only 20 I told him I didn't want to go there. He chased me for 6 months and won me over. We lived together for four years until he realized that he needed to get out and meet more guys. I was his first and only and that was one reason I didn't want to start anything - I knew that at some point he'd want to explore. We're still friends but it won't ever go back.

    I think age is just a number sometime but even with that said, I won't go back to that big of an age difference.
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    Jul 25, 2012 11:37 PM GMT
    13?
  • kohbunny

    Posts: 7

    Jul 28, 2012 12:32 AM GMT
    theantijockAt least that's what I think I saw in this person I was friendly with for many years. Had he no integrity and not the will power to prevent himself from seducing (sharing love, yikes) with much younger kids, I don't believe he would have been able to satisfy himself simply with the very twinky 18/19 year olds which he made due with. He never expressed that outright, but I did follow his eyes to see what he looked at when we were out. And the younger the legal aged twink looked, the more he liked them. As far as I know, he never abused children; and as as far as I could determine, unless there was some mental deterioration, ie dementia, psychosis, whatever, he never would. But that didn't stop me from considering him to be a pedophile, again, not by his actions but by what some of his stares and some of his words and his expressed preferences based upon what was legally available seemed to indicate to me was his thinking.

    I know guys like this, too.

    jayatl56I don't know where it comes from but I'm definitely more attracted to younger guys than guys my age. BUT I'd NEVER go with a teenager. I think it comes from being molested as a young boy. Ever since I've had an aversion to older men. They creeped me out but as I grew older it never changed. My attraction never changed. I was into guys my own age until about 30 and that's where it stopped. My last relationship was with a guy I met while I was living overseas. We met when he was 20 and I was 50. I genuinely thought he was older simply because of his mature look and the way he spoke etc. When I found out he was only 20 I told him I didn't want to go there. He chased me for 6 months and won me over. We lived together for four years until he realized that he needed to get out and meet more guys. I was his first and only and that was one reason I didn't want to start anything - I knew that at some point he'd want to explore. We're still friends but it won't ever go back.

    I think age is just a number sometime but even with that said, I won't go back to that big of an age difference.

    Thanks for your perspective. I don't know what to think about age. I dated an 18 year-old recently, and it was such a bad idea--I don't know why I thought that I would have anything in common with him. But I guess that it can be difficult to find similar people at any age.
  • jayatl56

    Posts: 463

    Jul 31, 2012 3:06 AM GMT
    I have two guys that are interested in me. One is 19 years old. He acts like a 30 year old. His conversational skills are unlike any 19 year old. I enjoy going out with him but I won't go to the LTR thing which is what he's looking for. The other is a virgin (he says) 18 year old who keeps messaging me.

    Where are all the 30+ year olds for heaven's sake?
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    Aug 01, 2012 10:40 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]jayatl56 said[/cite]I have two guys that are interested in me. One is 19 years old. He acts like a 30 year old. His conversational skills are unlike any 19 year old. I enjoy going out with him but I won't go to the LTR thing which is what he's looking for. The other is a virgin (he says) 18 year old who keeps messaging me.

    Where are all the 30+ year olds for heaven's sake?[/quote]

    busy bangin all the little twinks that swoon for the older man.

    icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif
  • kohbunny

    Posts: 7

    Aug 06, 2012 3:32 PM GMT
    jayatl56 saidI have two guys that are interested in me. One is 19 years old. He acts like a 30 year old. His conversational skills are unlike any 19 year old. I enjoy going out with him but I won't go to the LTR thing which is what he's looking for. The other is a virgin (he says) 18 year old who keeps messaging me.

    Where are all the 30+ year olds for heaven's sake?


    Hey, I'm almost there. And no one is beating down my door ;)
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    Aug 06, 2012 4:00 PM GMT
    @theantijock

    Actually, had you read the description correctly, it says: "As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia, or paedophilia, is defined as a psychiatric disorder in persons who are 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children..."

    Which means that all (or so) of the guy's boyfriends/hook-ups should have been prepubescent for him to be called a "pedophile".
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    Aug 06, 2012 5:41 PM GMT
    well Im 20 and dating a 42 year old so yeah I totaly understand what you mean by the age gap.