Christianity - Love it or Hate it?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 4:26 PM GMT
    All right guys, tell us your frustrations with Christianity (or its practitioners) or Practitioners tell us your frustrations with others. Go ahead let it out!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 4:31 PM GMT
    XRuggerATX said
    Zedcool said
    XRuggerATX said
    Zedcool said
    XRuggerATX said

    Feel free. Don't skate. This is a rare opportunity to change the mind of someone who has strong prejudices about conservative Christianity.

    Of course a two-word answer here would have been just fine. "Yes" or "No" and then, if yes, the specific judgement rendered.

    Why the resistance? I hope it is not because you are afraid of saying something most of us suspected was already true about conservative christianity. That would be kind of cowardly.

    Email me instead if you must.


    I'll tell you exactly what I think, but I'm unsure of what judgement you want me to render here? If you want me to tell you, I think you're going to burn, that's not a decision for me to make as I have stated in previous posts. That is between you and the good Lord, not between you and I. You have obviously judged me to be wrong/incorrect/ignorant/stupid/retartded/idiotic/mis-informed/crazy in some form already, so, why would my judgement concern you? There are judgements being made on both sides of this argument. I'm just saying respect one anothers' differences of opinion and move on. You are correct in assuming that I believe there is only one way to God and that is through the sacrifice of His Son. Will I disagree with another interpretation. Yes, and I have the right to that opinion, whether you or anyone here thinks otherwise. Does that mean I'm going to MAKE YOU or FORCE YOU to believe it. NO!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 4:31 PM GMT
    SED, ZED where are you? cast those stones!!icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 4:32 PM GMT
    Zedcool saidYes, and I have the right to that opinion, whether you or anyone here thinks otherwise. Does that mean I'm going to MAKE YOU or FORCE YOU to believe it. NO!>
    WOW, thanks ZED
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 4:34 PM GMT
    Sedative said
    Zedcool said
    Sedative said
    Zedcool said
    Greg0201 saidThis horrible situation begs the question: When can we start discriminating against religious people?


    What do you mean start? Religious persecution helped found this country. Rome killed millions of Christians.


    ROFL... Christians killed millions more.

    icon_razz.gif


    [snore] So, that makes it okay and gives you permission to persecute Christians? I won't argue the finer historical points in this thread, but Christians have often had to fight to be allowed to even have their faith, which may possibly be the reasoning for your assertion. There have been just as many periods in history where Christians were in hiding, and most have an overzealous reaction to prevent that from happening again. Off to another thread.


    LOL, you brought up Rome in the first place, and now you don't want to hear about it. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Oh poor Christians. icon_sad.gif They should obviously be exempt from questioning and corrections and ridicule, since a long time ago, Lions ate Christians (though it will be the other way around now). And also since the US was founded by persecuted religions (which was... may I remind, protestant branches that were persecuted by fellow CHRISTIANS) icon_lol.gif

    I find that hard to do when the main reason a perfectly good employee (which I'm sure YngHungSFSD is) has been fired is because of the persecution and intolerance that YOUR religion is spreading.

    If I can't make fun of your Jesus, why is it okay for your 'infallible' Bible to make fun of 'heathen' religions and gay people?

    It's funny what you would consider 'Persecution' when Christianity virtually has a foothold on Global media.

    Tolerance does not mean Immunity.


    "Tolerance does not mean Immunity." Hmmmmm....I'll remember that at the next naked gay pride parade on a public street. Being gay doesn't give you immunity for your actions either. Or the right to abuse those with differing opinions than you own. Otherwise you are no better than crazy lady.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 4:36 PM GMT
    ActiveAndFit said
    Zedcool saidYes, and I have the right to that opinion, whether you or anyone here thinks otherwise. Does that mean I'm going to MAKE YOU or FORCE YOU to believe it. NO!>
    WOW, thanks ZED


    That seems to be the assertion here about Christianity. Don't hate on me, cause you hate on me and my faith.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 4:39 PM GMT
    ActiveAndFit saidSED, ZED where are you? cast those stones!!icon_lol.gif


    How is that in anyway casting stones? I respect his right to his beliefs, I'm just asking for the same?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 4:43 PM GMT
    Zedcool said
    ActiveAndFit saidSED, ZED where are you? cast those stones!!icon_lol.gif


    How is that in anyway casting stones? I respect his right to his beliefs, I'm just asking for the same?
    It's just figurative .. words = stones (despite what we are told in childhood) .. cast those words!! icon_lol.gif
  • auryn

    Posts: 2061

    Aug 08, 2008 4:44 PM GMT
    ActiveAndFit said
    Auryn said
    Zedcool saidThe unfortunate thing that I see is that your comment and presence here and the fact that the OPs former client/boss joked about homosexuals and homosexuality do not exemplify what I know of the teachings of Jesus and His Apostles.
    icon_eek.gificon_mad.gificon_mad.gif the other thread? please? icon_cry.gificon_cry.gificon_cry.gif
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/254894/


    You posted your link and request while I was typing my response. So I reply to your reply here instead of there. To let you know that my reply after the request wasn't intentional.

    in otherwords.... My bad.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 4:46 PM GMT
    Auryn said
    Zedcool said

    ... I think you're going to burn...


    You know, aside from everything else you stated this part puzzles me. What does this statement and the fact that you have guys hot listed, which to the casual observer puts you in the same boat as anyone else on this site, what does this statement say about you? Do you believe you're going to hell also?

    The unfortunate thing that I see is that your comment and presence here and the fact that the OPs former client/boss joked about homosexuals and homosexuality do not exemplify what I know of the teachings of Jesus and His Apostles.


    The original question here was what are my judgements on ATX's faith, and I was posing a question to him, not making a moral judgement.

    I won't say that isn't an internal struggle, but I believe that NO one is exempt from sin, including myself. However, the teachings of Jesus and His Apostles tell us we are forgiven, but not without a cost and consequences.
    Yeah, big secret on a gay website, I'm attracted to men, but there are Christian men the world over attracted to women in just the same way. Because they are attracted to women does that make them any less of a sinner? No.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 4:51 PM GMT
    Auryn saidYou posted your link and request while I was typing my response. So I reply to your reply here instead of there. To let you know that my reply after the request wasn't intentional.

    in otherwords.... My bad.
    It's OK, I still love you icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 5:05 PM GMT
    Zedcool"Tolerance does not mean Immunity." Hmmmmm....I'll remember that at the next naked gay pride parade on a public street. Being gay doesn't give you immunity for your actions either.


    LOL, it doesn't. If I were gay and preached all about the EVIL of heterosexuality, I wouldn't expect to be immune because I'm gay either.

    Christianity, like most monotheismtic western religions, is implicitly intolerant of anything that do not believe in their dogma.

    Sure, you may be different because you don't believe in clergy (but you still believe in an infallible Bible...icon_rolleyes.gif ), but don't deny that most Christians aren't like you. And if Jesus is divine wouldn't it be definitely VERY shallow of him to be insulted by mere blasphemy?

    Jesus was only a MESSENGER. I sure wonder if any of you Christians ever got the MESSAGE.

    Zedcool said

    The original question here was what are my judgements on ATX's faith, and I was posing a question to him, not making a moral judgement.


    You're wording was ambivalent. I, like Auryn, thought you were saying that Rugger's going to burn in hell for being UU. So I apologize for the misinterpretation.

    Nevertheless, what is it with Christians and their obsession with sin and evil and guilt?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 5:09 PM GMT
    OK. now we are cooking ..
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 5:14 PM GMT
    Sedative said
    And if Jesus is divine wouldn't it be definitely VERY shallow of him to be insulted by mere blasphemy?

    Jesus was only a MESSENGER. I sure wonder if any of you Christians ever got the MESSAGE.

    Nevertheless, what is it with Christians and their obsession with sin and evil and guilt?



    By definition blasphemy denies His divinity, the only unforgivable sin. Simply, because if you don't believe in His ability to save you or as your Saviour, then how can you be forgiven? He is Holy to me and many other gay men in the world, so, why are we not respected for our faith? If I am told to respect everyone else's beliefs, why are mine not given the same respect regardless of those that misrepresent it.

    It not an obsession, it is what we believe to be true. Just as there is good in this world, we have many more examples of evil.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 5:16 PM GMT
    Psalm 141:5 Let a righteous man [a] strike me — it is a kindness;
    let him rebuke me — it is oil on my head.
    My head will not refuse it.
    Yet my prayer is ever against the deeds of evildoers;
    (New International Version)New International Version (NIV)Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 5:23 PM GMT
    ActiveAndFit said
    Psalm 141:5 Let a righteous man [a] strike me — it is a kindness;
    let him rebuke me — it is oil on my head.
    My head will not refuse it.
    Yet my prayer is ever against the deeds of evildoers;
    (New International Version)New International Version (NIV)Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society


    Good words. We should hold one another accountable. Just as we should hold boss lady accountable for her actions.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 5:32 PM GMT
    Zedcool saidGood words. We should hold one another accountable. Just as we should hold boss lady accountable for her actions.
    Maybe she needs the rod of correction icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 5:34 PM GMT
    icon_eek.gifI expected more debate here .. maybe later tonight
    Proverbs 26:3-5 (New International Version)New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
    Proverbs 26:3-5 3 A whip for the horse, a halter for the donkey,
    and a rod for the backs of fools!
    4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
    or you will be like him yourself.
    5 Answer a fool according to his folly,
    or he will be wise in his own eyes.

    To answer or not to answer .. that is the question
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 5:41 PM GMT
    All organized religions have had both positive and negative impacts on human society. I am tolerant of religions and religious people as long as they are tolerant of me. But if they try to suppress me or my loved ones, then watch out!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 5:48 PM GMT
    ActiveAndFit saidicon_eek.gifI expected more debate here .. maybe later tonight
    Proverbs 26:3-5 (New International Version)New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
    Proverbs 26:3-5 3 A whip for the horse, a halter for the donkey,
    and a rod for the backs of fools!
    4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
    or you will be like him yourself.
    5 Answer a fool according to his folly,
    or he will be wise in his own eyes.


    Uh huh. And what do you think that means? I wouldn't interpret that to mean we should grab a cain and go to town on her for letting someone go. It means to bring the situation under control. Just as tolerance doesn't mean immunity, neither does forgiveness mean immunity from consequences. If I burn someones house to the ground and in my heart really feel remorse for my actions, should I just be allowed to walk away with no consequence? No, it's great that I am remorseful and maybe the owner has forgiven me, but that doesn't excuse my behavior or the consequences of having to rebuild that persons home.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 5:49 PM GMT
    SurrealLife> I am tolerant of religions and religious people as long as they are tolerant of me. But if they try to suppress me or my loved ones, then watch out!

    Me too. But I still have some stones that accumulated on my desk as I was reading through the other topic, and, well, what am I going to do with them if not throw them...? (:


    Zedcool> Rome killed millions of Christians ...I won't argue the finer historical points in this thread

    It's probably best that you not argue the historical points at all. For starters, I doubt that there were even "millions of Christians" to be killed prior to Rome adopting Christianity as its official religion.

    What also is often misunderstood is that Romans didn't really care if Christians wanted to worship "God" or a Trinity. Ancient polytheists were very open to others worshipping different gods. "God" to them may have been as real as "Jupiter". I do need to study up more about this, but I think what got the early Christians in trouble with the Romans is that they insisted that their gods didn't exist and attempted to convert people to save their souls. Same thing that still gets some Christians in trouble today.

    You know, like those Christians who fire someone because he's gay.


    Zedcool> Christians have often had to fight to be allowed to even have their faith, which may possibly be the reasoning for your assertion. There have been just as many periods in history where Christians were in hiding, and most have an overzealous reaction to prevent that from happening again.

    Ridiculous. For the last 1,700 years Christians have been at the discriminating, not discriminated, end of the spectrum. At worst some Christians were victims of other Christians. Certainly there are exceptions (e.g. early Christians in Rome as discussed above, under communist regimes and in parts of the Muslim world at times), but to pretend there is some group memory of persecution at play amongst Christians anywhere in the West is ahistorical and preposterous.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 5:52 PM GMT
    Well, I just wish all these fucking right wing, fundy, hypocritical Christians would just go ahead and get "raptured" and leave the rest of us the fuck alone.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 5:52 PM GMT
    Well, I just wish all these fucking right wing, fundy, hypocritical Christians would just go ahead and get "raptured" and leave the rest of us the fuck alone.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 5:59 PM GMT
    caesarea4 saidSurrealLife> I am tolerant of religions and religious people as long as they are tolerant of me. But if they try to suppress me or my loved ones, then watch out!

    Me too. But I still have some stones that accumulated on my desk as I was reading through the other topic, and, well, what am I going to do with them if not throw them...? (:

    It's probably best that you not argue the historical points at all. For starters, I doubt that there were even "millions of Christians" to be killed prior to Rome adopting Christianity as its official religion.

    What also is often misunderstood is that Romans didn't really care if Christians wanted to worship "God" or a Trinity. Ancient polytheists were very open to others worshipping different gods. "God" to them may have been as real as "Jupiter". I do need to study up more about this, but I think what got the early Christians in trouble with the Romans is that they insisted that their gods didn't exist and attempted to convert people to save their souls. Same thing that still gets some Christians in trouble today.

    You know, like those Christians who fire someone because he's gay.

    Ridiculous. For the last 1,700 years Christians have been at the discriminating, not discriminated, end of the spectrum. At worst some Christians were victims of other Christians. Certainly there are exceptions (e.g. early Rome as discussed above, under communist regimes and in parts of the Muslim world at time), but to pretend there is some group memory of persecution at play amongst Christians anywhere in the West is ahistorical and preposterous.


    Oh please, of course they did, and whether the Romans actually "pulled the trigger" they were still the ruling government of the time. Almost all of the apostles were put to death for their faith. Even in the western world they were killed for their faith. As you mentioned by other "Christians"; however, none the less they were still persecuted under communism, facism, all the isms, & the monarchies. Persecution is still a very relevant argument.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 08, 2008 6:00 PM GMT
    I think what kills me, stated in the original thread, was when you said an attack on your Lord was an attack on you, Zed.

    To me--a former fundamentalist--the following is a stupid question, but maybe you'll take it seriously: isn't the Lord god enough to deal with these attacks himself? What does he need you for?

    Whatever blasphemy is--to you--does the Lord need his adherents to kick ass in his stead for this transgression? I mean, you're taking it personally, but issue A isn't about you (the fundamentalist human-resources witch-hunter) and issue B isn't about you (the Lord has a problem with people who doubt his divinity). When did this become about you?