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XRuggerATX said

Zedcool said

XRuggerATX said

Zedcool said

XRuggerATX said

Feel free. Don't skate. This is a rare opportunity to change the mind of someone who has strong prejudices about conservative Christianity.

Of course a two-word answer here would have been just fine. "Yes" or "No" and then, if yes, the specific judgement rendered.

Why the resistance? I hope it is not because you are afraid of saying something most of us suspected was already true about conservative christianity. That would be kind of cowardly.

Email me instead if you must.

I'll tell you exactly what I think, but I'm unsure of what judgement you want me to render here? If you want me to tell you, I think you're going to burn, that's not a decision for me to make as I have stated in previous posts. That is between you and the good Lord, not between you and I. You have obviously judged me to be wrong/incorrect/ignorant/stupid/retartded/idiotic/mis-informed/crazy in some form already, so, why would my judgement concern you? There are judgements being made on both sides of this argument. I'm just saying respect one anothers' differences of opinion and move on. You are correct in assuming that I believe there is only one way to God and that is through the sacrifice of His Son. Will I disagree with another interpretation. Yes, and I have the right to that opinion, whether you or anyone here thinks otherwise. Does that mean I'm going to MAKE YOU or FORCE YOU to believe it. NO!

Zedcool saidYes, and I have the right to that opinion, whether you or anyone here thinks otherwise. Does that mean I'm going to MAKE YOU or FORCE YOU to believe it. NO!>

Sedative said

Zedcool said

Sedative said

Zedcool said

Greg0201 saidThis horrible situation begs the question: When can we start discriminating against religious people?

What do you mean start? Religious persecution helped found this country. Rome killed millions of Christians.

ROFL... Christians killed millions more.

[snore] So, that makes it okay and gives you permission to persecute Christians? I won't argue the finer historical points in this thread, but Christians have often had to fight to be allowed to even have their faith, which may possibly be the reasoning for your assertion. There have been just as many periods in history where Christians were in hiding, and most have an overzealous reaction to prevent that from happening again. Off to another thread.

LOL, you brought up Rome in the first place, and now you don't want to hear about it.

Oh poor Christians. They should obviously be exempt from questioning and corrections and ridicule, since a long time ago, Lions ate Christians (though it will be the other way around now). And also since the US was founded by persecuted religions (which was... may I remind, protestant branches that were persecuted by fellow CHRISTIANS)

I find that hard to do when the main reason a perfectly good employee (which I'm sure YngHungSFSD is) has been fired is because of the persecution and intolerance that YOUR religion is spreading.

If I can't make fun of your Jesus, why is it okay for your 'infallible' Bible to make fun of 'heathen' religions and gay people?

It's funny what you would consider 'Persecution' when Christianity virtually has a foothold on Global media.

Tolerance does not mean Immunity.

ActiveAndFit said

Zedcool saidYes, and I have the right to that opinion, whether you or anyone here thinks otherwise. Does that mean I'm going to MAKE YOU or FORCE YOU to believe it. NO!>

WOW, thanks ZED

ActiveAndFit saidSED, ZED where are you? cast those stones!!

Zedcool said

ActiveAndFit saidSED, ZED where are you? cast those stones!!

How is that in anyway casting stones? I respect his right to his beliefs, I'm just asking for the same?

ActiveAndFit said

Auryn said

Zedcool saidThe unfortunate thing that I see is that your comment and presence here and the fact that the OPs former client/boss joked about homosexuals and homosexuality do not exemplify what I know of the teachings of Jesus and His Apostles.

the other thread? please?
http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/254894/

Auryn said

Zedcool said

... I think you're going to burn...

You know, aside from everything else you stated this part puzzles me. What does this statement and the fact that you have guys hot listed, which to the casual observer puts you in the same boat as anyone else on this site, what does this statement say about you? Do you believe you're going to hell also?

The unfortunate thing that I see is that your comment and presence here and the fact that the OPs former client/boss joked about homosexuals and homosexuality do not exemplify what I know of the teachings of Jesus and His Apostles.

Auryn saidYou posted your link and request while I was typing my response. So I reply to your reply here instead of there. To let you know that my reply after the request wasn't intentional.

in otherwords.... My bad.

Zedcool"Tolerance does not mean Immunity." Hmmmmm....I'll remember that at the next naked gay pride parade on a public street. Being gay doesn't give you immunity for your actions either.

Zedcool said

The original question here was what are my judgements on ATX's faith, and I was posing a question to him, not making a moral judgement.

Sedative said

And if Jesus is divine wouldn't it be definitely VERY shallow of him to be insulted by mere blasphemy?

Jesus was only a MESSENGER. I sure wonder if any of you Christians ever got the MESSAGE.

Nevertheless, what is it with Christians and their obsession with sin and evil and guilt?

Psalm 141:5 Let a righteous man [a] strike me — it is a kindness;
let him rebuke me — it is oil on my head.
My head will not refuse it.
Yet my prayer is ever against the deeds of evildoers;

ActiveAndFit said

Psalm 141:5 Let a righteous man [a] strike me — it is a kindness;
let him rebuke me — it is oil on my head.
My head will not refuse it.
Yet my prayer is ever against the deeds of evildoers;

(New International Version)New International Version (NIV)Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

Zedcool saidGood words. We should hold one another accountable. Just as we should hold boss lady accountable for her actions.

Proverbs 26:3-5 3 A whip for the horse, a halter for the donkey,
and a rod for the backs of fools!
4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you will be like him yourself.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.

ActiveAndFit saidI expected more debate here .. maybe later tonight
Proverbs 26:3-5 (New International Version)New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

Proverbs 26:3-5 3 A whip for the horse, a halter for the donkey,
and a rod for the backs of fools!
4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you will be like him yourself.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.

caesarea4 saidSurrealLife> I am tolerant of religions and religious people as long as they are tolerant of me. But if they try to suppress me or my loved ones, then watch out!

Me too. But I still have some stones that accumulated on my desk as I was reading through the other topic, and, well, what am I going to do with them if not throw them...? (:

It's probably best that you not argue the historical points at all. For starters, I doubt that there were even "millions of Christians" to be killed prior to Rome adopting Christianity as its official religion.

What also is often misunderstood is that Romans didn't really care if Christians wanted to worship "God" or a Trinity. Ancient polytheists were very open to others worshipping different gods. "God" to them may have been as real as "Jupiter". I do need to study up more about this, but I think what got the early Christians in trouble with the Romans is that they insisted that their gods didn't exist and attempted to convert people to save their souls. Same thing that still gets some Christians in trouble today.

You know, like those Christians who fire someone because he's gay.

Ridiculous. For the last 1,700 years Christians have been at the discriminating, not discriminated, end of the spectrum. At worst some Christians were victims of other Christians. Certainly there are exceptions (e.g. early Rome as discussed above, under communist regimes and in parts of the Muslim world at time), but to pretend there is some group memory of persecution at play amongst Christians anywhere in the West is ahistorical and preposterous.

mickeytopogigio saidI think what kills me, stated in the original thread, was when you said an attack on your Lord was an attack on you, Zed.

To me--a former fundamentalist--the following is a stupid question, but maybe you'll take it seriously: isn't the Lord god enough to deal with these attacks himself? What does he need you for?

Whatever blasphemy is--to you--does the Lord need his adherents to kick ass in his stead for this transgression? I mean, you're taking it personally, but issue A isn't about you (the fundamentalist human-resources witch-hunter) and issue B isn't about you (the Lord has a problem with people who doubt his divinity). When did this become about you?

XRuggerATX saidThanks Zedcool. In simple terms, I was asking if you think any less of me (all else equal/unknown) due to my beliefs. It seems you don't. You didn't speak for the others you've observed as sharing your faith (although I asked). But whatever. Feel free if you wish. You already know I'm curious.

So I have/had some prejudices about conservative christians. You have altered my (and maybe others' on here) impression for the better though, and for that, I think you have unique value to your church. I also think that there must be others like you. That's a good thing, because right now you guys are painted, "broad brush", as our enemy. It is somewhat comforting to know that this isn't 100% true.

Not to come off as patronizing, but I hope your can see the value of this exercise and as a result and can appreciate why I kind of pushed it a bit (hopefully not to the detriment of YungHungSFSD's story).

Zedcool said

By definition blasphemy denies His divinity, the only unforgivable sin. Simply, because if you don't believe in His ability to save you or as your Saviour, then how can you be forgiven? He is Holy to me and many other gay men in the world, so, why are we not respected for our faith? If I am told to respect everyone else's beliefs, why are mine not given the same respect regardless of those that misrepresent it.

• An Atheist making a joke about Jesus on a Bike.
  
• A Buddhist denying the divinity of Jesus Christ
  
• An Evolutionist ridiculing the story of Creation.
  

• A priest pointing a finger at you and saying "You are going to Hell!"
  
• A bunch of satanic cultists performing Black Mass.
  
• A megalomaniacal televangelist proclaiming that he is the second coming of the Messiah.
  

Zedcool saidIt not an obsession, it is what we believe to be true. Just as there is good in this world, we have many more examples of evil.

ZedcoolIf I burn someones house to the ground and in my heart really feel remorse for my actions, should I just be allowed to walk away with no consequence? No, it's great that I am remorseful and maybe the owner has forgiven me, but that doesn't excuse my behavior or the consequences of having to rebuild that persons home.

Zedcool said

Oh please, of course they did, and whether the Romans actually "pulled the trigger" they were still the ruling government of the time. Almost all of the apostles were put to death for their faith. Even in the western world they were killed for their faith. As you mentioned by other "Christians"; however, none the less they were still persecuted under communism, facism, all the isms, & the monarchies. Persecution is still a very relevant argument.

among other things, Zedcool said...spread the word of His good name...

Zedcool said

XRuggerATX saidThanks Zedcool. In simple terms, I was asking if you think any less of me (all else equal/unknown) due to my beliefs. It seems you don't. You didn't speak for the others you've observed as sharing your faith (although I asked). But whatever. Feel free if you wish. You already know I'm curious.

So I have/had some prejudices about conservative christians. You have altered my (and maybe others' on here) impression for the better though, and for that, I think you have unique value to your church. I also think that there must be others like you. That's a good thing, because right now you guys are painted, "broad brush", as our enemy. It is somewhat comforting to know that this isn't 100% true.

Not to come off as patronizing, but I hope your can see the value of this exercise and as a result and can appreciate why I kind of pushed it a bit (hopefully not to the detriment of YungHungSFSD's story).

No I don't think your patronizing, thanks. I very much appreciated your opinion and your curiousity. As far as my church is concerned they don't see it the way I do, no. They are trying to come to terms with the Lord's message and how to not compromise their faith/belief system, and still achieve the great commission of the Lord to be accepting of others. Lover the sinner and not the sin, sort of thing, and I think that applies to everyone, not just gays. Do they think homosexuality is a sin, frankly yes. Is that a problem for me personally, yes. Does that mean I'm going to turn my back on them or my faith, or especially God, never. I hope that answers your question, and thank you for your understanding and respect.

bocaguyfl said that is moral. And though failures are inevitable, we strive to do better at facing the temptations that life has.

Some people bring up other religions and say 'why is your religion right and not others". Do research. Most other religions follow false gods or man-made concepts. Many will claim they are right but there is only one God. Only one person rose from the dead and was seen by many people (Jesus). Ever wonder why when you read true stories of exorcisms, the demons fear only Jesus and God? Because they know of their existence and fear them.

Several good books that one can buy if interested in delving into theology and differences in different religions. Josh McDowell has a really good one.

bocaguyfl saidMost other religions follow false gods or man-made concepts. Many will claim they are right but there is only one God.

Zedcool said
ATX as far as spreading His good name, you can do whatever you want to with that info. I'm commissioned by Him to tell others about His sacrifice, if you don't want to hear it, great I'll move on to someone who does.

ZedcoolRome killed millions of Christians.

XRuggerATX said

Zedcool saidToo many with which to respond. I will say, all of that Sedative was to say that you don't respect something that I hold sacred, whether you believe it to be or not, makes it difficult for me to respect your point of view or the things that you do hold sacred. Get it? It's a two way street.
One of us needs history lessons but watch out casting those stones. The -isms needed to have control of peoples minds as well as their lives for obedience to the state, not to punish them for their "crimes". The Roman Church was the body that was persecuting other faiths of which I spoke. Dude catch up.

ATX as far as spreading His good name, you can do whatever you want to with that info. I'm commissioned by Him to tell others about His sacrifice, if you don't want to hear it, great I'll move on to someone who does.

Would you be telling me about god for me, for you, or for god? Because if it is for me, I'd be offended, and most certainly would feel judged.

XRuggerATX said

Zedcool saidToo many with which to respond. I will say, all of that Sedative was to say that you don't respect something that I hold sacred, whether you believe it to be or not, makes it difficult for me to respect your point of view or the things that you do hold sacred. Get it? It's a two way street.
One of us needs history lessons but watch out casting those stones. The -isms needed to have control of peoples minds as well as their lives for obedience to the state, not to punish them for their "crimes". The Roman Church was the body that was persecuting other faiths of which I spoke. Dude catch up.

ATX as far as spreading His good name, you can do whatever you want to with that info. I'm commissioned by Him to tell others about His sacrifice, if you don't want to hear it, great I'll move on to someone who does.

Would you be telling me about god for me, for you, or for god? Because if it is for me, I'd be offended, and most certainly would feel judged.

Zedcool saidToo many with which to respond. I will say, all of that Sedative was to say that you don't respect something that I hold sacred, whether you believe it to be or not, makes it difficult for me to respect your point of view or the things that you do hold sacred. Get it? It's a two way street.
One of us needs history lessons but watch out casting those stones. The -isms needed to have control of peoples minds as well as their lives for obedience to the state, not to punish them for their "crimes". The Roman Church was the body that was persecuting other faiths of which I spoke. Dude catch up.

ATX as far as spreading His good name, you can do whatever you want to with that info. I'm commissioned by Him to tell others about His sacrifice, it don't want to hear it, great I'll move on to someone who does.

Zedcool said

XRuggerATX said

Zedcool saidToo many with which to respond. I will say, all of that Sedative was to say that you don't respect something that I hold sacred, whether you believe it to be or not, makes it difficult for me to respect your point of view or the things that you do hold sacred. Get it? It's a two way street.
One of us needs history lessons but watch out casting those stones. The -isms needed to have control of peoples minds as well as their lives for obedience to the state, not to punish them for their "crimes". The Roman Church was the body that was persecuting other faiths of which I spoke. Dude catch up.

ATX as far as spreading His good name, you can do whatever you want to with that info. I'm commissioned by Him to tell others about His sacrifice, if you don't want to hear it, great I'll move on to someone who does.

Would you be telling me about god for me, for you, or for god? Because if it is for me, I'd be offended, and most certainly would feel judged.

I would say for both you and God. I don't get anything out of it. I wouldn't be offended that someone told that a Person loves me and loves me so much that he gave His own life for me? That he suffered and endured terrible pain because of His love for me. If love is offensive then I am definitely in the wrong place. Whether you believed that he did die for you or not, anyone (soldiers, friends, a stranger) that would give their life in my name could not be offensive to me. I guess I am crazy then.

Zedcool said
Uh Huh of course the communists were world reknown for their benevolence. Spreading wealth among the poor, all of the ruling class lived in the slums. Of course they couldn't being lieing about those altruistic motives or the reason for supressing Christianity.

Zedcool said
My mistake I thought you at least held yourself in high esteem and sacred. If you don't hold anything sacred, yourself, your friends, your boyfriend, then why would anyone respect for anything at all?

Zedcool saidBy definition blasphemy denies His divinity, the only unforgivable sin. Simply, because if you don't believe in His ability to save you or as your Saviour, then how can you be forgiven? He is Holy to me and many other gay men in the world, so, why are we not respected for our faith.

Zedcool saidFine He's precious, dear, important, cherished, and LOVED by me. Can't that just be enough to be respected for my position regardless if you think it is brainwashing. If not, then I cannot respect you or your viewpoint. It's that simple and the debate is over.

jprichva said

Zedcool saidBy definition blasphemy denies His divinity, the only unforgivable sin. Simply, because if you don't believe in His ability to save you or as your Saviour, then how can you be forgiven? He is Holy to me and many other gay men in the world, so, why are we not respected for our faith.

1. Religion is superstition and hogwash, but I don't deny anyone the right to indulge in it.

2. What on earth makes you think that belief in this sort of thing requires or deserves respect? It requires only that someone else not prevent you from pursuing it. It doesn't give you the right to demand respect, or to insist that everyone around you shut up about its absurdity.

Zedcool saidWhy should I respect you or your opinion? You're struggle to be equal, or anything about your character? When others tell you to shut-up what you want?

jprichva said

Zedcool saidWhy should I respect you or your opinion? You're struggle to be equal, or anything about your character? When others tell you to shut-up what you want?

I don't go about demanding respect, nor whining about not getting any. And I don't particularly care what you think about me. Is that answer enough?

Zedcool said

jprichva said

Zedcool saidWhy should I respect you or your opinion? You're struggle to be equal, or anything about your character? When others tell you to shut-up what you want?

I don't go about demanding respect, nor whining about not getting any. And I don't particularly care what you think about me. Is that answer enough?

You may not, but one day you'll need something from someone else, and you'll demand their respect. Let's see how that works out. You've got to give to receive, and it's not looking good.

That answer is perfect, so, the next time I see your post, I will gladly ignore it. Your opinion means nothing to me.

Zedcool said That answer is perfect, so, the next time I see your post, I will gladly ignore it. Your opinion or anything you say means nothing to me.

Zedcool saidYeah, she's a bigot and leave it at that. Then everyone jumps on my case because I'm someone in this community that can identify with both sides.

Nautical saidlove it, God is great

pdxpally saidZedcool, I'm having a hard time taking your devoutness seriously considering that your only piture is of you, shirtless, on a gay self-glorification site.

"I'm going with eyes first, but I likes a hairy chest and nice nipples." (In response to the thread "Which part of a guy really turns you on?") or have a hot list of half naked men?

Revelation chapter 3:15-16. "I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm-neither hot nor cold-I am about to spit you out of my mouth."

Pattison said

I'm OK with someone wanting too be a christian. But they feel a need to force their choice on others. You don't find atheist having a need to convert.

But One can already hear the cries of protests, by the Christians, if atheists held a convention. yet Christain want to rule our politics, and our lives, and want more rights, and not equal rights for their lifestyle choice.

JustJohn saidTerms like "great spaghetti monster in the sky" are not uncommon.

Pattison saidWell all can say to you homosexual Christians. if you want to enter my temple.

AMT87 saidHow about simply doesn't concern me, don't stalk and try and preach to me and you can worship a bunch of bananas for all I care

article aboveFour months ago, I posted about the $25 Million jud