Sexual Assault?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 08, 2008 6:53 PM GMT
    Hello everyone. This is my first post.

    I was in a gay bar recently and a guy, who was very drunk, attempted to grab me. Actually, he did more than that, but I really can't discuss the details with anyone right now. (I haven't told anyone all that he did.) The only thing that matters is I did not want this and did not consent to any of it. I could not deal with this incident at the time, for reasons I will not go into. It was later, when I was driving home that night, that my mind went back to this incident. I decided to stop a policeman, who was on foot, tell him what happened and get his advice. The cop told me what happened is known as a sexual assault and I had the legal right to press charges. I thanked him and went home.

    The next day, I was at a different bar, with some people who frequent the bar where the incident originally occurred. I told them I had spoken to a policeman and repeated what the cop said. Everyone seemed to make light of what happened. They began to make excuses for the guy who assaulted me, saying that's just how he is, he only does this when he is drunk, he does this to everybody, etc. I later discovered these same types of responses were common among those who frequent the bar where the incident originally occurred.

    This left me in an odd position. Being the odd man out, since I am the only one who took issue with being grabbed (along with the other things he did), I realized if I did report the incident, or tell the perpetrator that if he did it one more time I would press charges, I would be the only one in the bar who took issue with the behavior, which leaves me in the position of the bad guy or drama queen.

    I have not been back to the bar since. Actually, I did stop by there last night, but I could not walk through the door. I have not worn the shirt I wore the night the incident occurred, even though it happened three weeks ago. My sense of personal safety is gone. I was in such shock when the incident happened, I froze, not knowing what to do. I should have done something to stop it. I can not wear the shirt I wore that night because it is one of the tightest I have. If I wear it, then I will be inviting more of the same behavior from other people.

    I have been beating myself up because I have believed my reactions were extreme, over the top, and far above and beyond what the incident deserved, especially considering that no one else around me seemed to take what happened seriously.

    I have since been reading on the internet and found that my symptoms are common to many who are sexually assaulted. This means my reactions are normal, since most who go through what I have, have the exact same reactions I am having.

    I can not set foot in this bar again and I no longer wish to be around the people at the bar, because I know they condone the behavior of the one who assaulted me. It wouldn't be so bad if the people I know there had backed me up, but they didn't, so I no longer trust them. I hesitate to even post this because I fear I will be made fun of, (which is also why the information in my profile here is largely blank or false.) I did not report the guy because I fear I will not be believed or will be laughed at.

    What should I do? Am I making a big deal out of nothing, as those at the bar seem to believe?
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    Aug 08, 2008 8:49 PM GMT
    You're asking people to judge your reaction to a situation that you (understandably) don't want to give the details about. How can any of us tell you whether we think your response is justified or not?

    I am not condemning you, and I am not saying you overreacted, and I am certainly NOT saying that you must give details in a public forum. I'm not even urging you to do that. I'm just saying that without more information, any opinion you get isn't going to be worth anything.
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    Aug 08, 2008 9:21 PM GMT
    If you can't disclose any of the details, it's hard to really give you any sort of coherent advice. However, it appears that you have one of two avenues before you. You can either 1) let it go or 2) deal with it legally. As you aren't saying exactly what happened, I really can't say whether or not I think the guy's actions merit legal repercussions. I can say though, that in my experience, in gay bars inappropriate touching is more likely to happen. A good piece of general advice I'd give is to be more assertive about your personal space. People can think I'm a bitch or whatever they want, however, I do not enjoy people grabbing my ass and frequently call people out when they do so. That's usually all I need to do. Acts of sexual assault are generally about power, but I make it very clear that I'm the one in control, not them. So my other piece of advice to help you get past this would be to find your power and your own control, and use it.
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    Aug 08, 2008 9:45 PM GMT
    Seconded HotToddy.

    Some drunk gay men are just like drunk straight men (or sober for that matter) and feel they are entitled to certain actions. There is absolutely no circumstance where this is ever the case.

    A cop would have advised you, quite corectly, that any touching of private areas without consent meets the legal definition of "sexual assault." That being said, if gay men pursued every incidence where this happened, the legal system would grind to a halt.

    You didn't state your exact circumstances, but overly aggressive people are not terribly uncommon and a firm "no" should be more than enough to send them on their way. If it escalates beyond that, I would say you should pursue other options although my second choice with said unwanted fellow would be a polite, but firm, upper cut to the jaw. Then he could explain to the cop what prompted my response.
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    Aug 08, 2008 10:44 PM GMT
    Using the information you provided, you need to go back and confront the bastard who did assault you. No one has the right to share your personal space unless invited by interest or consent on your part. To me, this is an invasion of personal space. Be assertive and respond the next time it happens.
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    Aug 08, 2008 11:08 PM GMT
    Sounds like a hard smack to the nuts will get the message across nicely.
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    Aug 08, 2008 11:09 PM GMT
    HotToddy saidIf you can't disclose any of the details, it's hard to really give you any sort of coherent advice. However, it appears that you have one of two avenues before you. You can either 1) let it go or 2) deal with it legally. As you aren't saying exactly what happened, I really can't say whether or not I think the guy's actions merit legal repercussions. I can say though, that in my experience, in gay bars inappropriate touching is more likely to happen. A good piece of general advice I'd give is to be more assertive about your personal space. People can think I'm a bitch or whatever they want, however, I do not enjoy people grabbing my ass and frequently call people out when they do so. That's usually all I need to do. Acts of sexual assault are generally about power, but I make it very clear that I'm the one in control, not them. So my other piece of advice to help you get past this would be to find your power and your own control, and use it.


    I agree, without more details it's hard for us to give you an advice. He's right about the gay bar thing too, who cares if you come of as a bitch, make it clear that you do not want that. Or you can do what I do and just say back the fuck off and push them. That normally does the trick for me. Sorry this happened to you, btw.
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    Aug 08, 2008 11:46 PM GMT
    The last time One was in a gay establishment. I was pleased to see advertising about homosexual assault, sexual, and domestic.

    It gave a hot line, and stated just because of you sexuality, this does not have to be tolerated. One was so pleased to see this.

    Even if you are a slut. This does not give another to abuse you. as even a prostitute can be raped.

    I could not help but think of things I endured going out onto the gay community, things that should never of come to pass.

    I learned some years ago. to say if someone kept touching me, and I did not want it. You touch me one more fucking time, and will break every fucking bone in that hand; try me! It worked, I never had to break any bones. Yes I know. if I did this, this would be considered assault too.

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    Aug 09, 2008 12:53 AM GMT

    OMG! I remember one time I went to gay country and western bar with my then heart throb, Bill. Anyway, the place was packed and upon entering, a swath of men came between us and forced our interlocked hands apart. I could see Bill just beyond the melee, but before I could catch up, two huge hands reached down swung me around, and grasped onto both my pecs. I grabbed onto the wrist and tried to free myself but the man's grip was just too strong and with no effort, he pulled all of me toward him almost off my feet. such strength. I looked up to catch a view of my antagonist's identity, but all I could see were too massive shoulders and a darkened head shrouded by a halo of neon light. The head was laughing, emitting the most sinister sounds I've ever heard, as the squeezing and minipulating my pecs and nipples continued to the point I was finding it harder to desire escape. I've never had my pecs handled with such reckless abandon. For a hurried attack on my supple anatomy that only lasted for several seconds, this was one arousing encounter. As mesmorized by the sheer power of this sadistic stranger, I was able to pull away. He gave me a nice butt grab to send me off. I caught up to Bill, who hadn't seen me in the clutches of another. He said I was clearly flustered and asked me what happened. I told him "nothing!"

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    Aug 09, 2008 9:34 AM GMT
    HotToddy said
    As you aren't saying exactly what happened, I really can't say whether or not I think the guy's actions merit legal repercussions.


    2nd Degree Sexual Assault -- physical contact of a sexual nature without consent, with a victim's genitals or buttocks or a woman's breasts

    HotToddy said
    A good piece of general advice I'd give is to be more assertive about your personal space.


    When it happened, I froze up. I could not believe it was happening and did not know how to respond. I wish I had not been so shocked.

    HotToddy said
    So my other piece of advice to help you get past this would be to find your power and your own control, and use it.


    I called the national sexual assault hotline and spoke with a counselor. They are recommending pressing charges. This guy is known for doing this sort of thing repeatedly, which is why I am seriously considering pressing charges so that it stops.
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    Aug 09, 2008 9:35 AM GMT
    JustJohn saidSeconded HotToddy.
    If it escalates beyond that, I would say you should pursue other options although my second choice with said unwanted fellow would be a polite, but firm, upper cut to the jaw.


    I asked the cop about that. He said it would be on the judge to determine which of the two of us to believe. (Which is why I am glad I didn't hit him.)
  • MattyC0709

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    Aug 09, 2008 9:44 AM GMT
    All I can suggest is seeing if there is a support group you may attend or something... sorry this happened to you. icon_sad.gif
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    Aug 09, 2008 10:06 AM GMT
    muttskins saidAll I can suggest is seeing if there is a support group you may attend or something... sorry this happened to you. icon_sad.gif


    I did get through to a counselor after calling the national sexual assault hotline. I also have the date and time of the next Al-Anon meeting. It seems the majority of people I take issue with are those who have been drinking. This incident is one piece of a much larger issue in my life, although it has put it front and center so that I can't deny it any more.

    I want to thank everyone for your responses. My world has been turned upside down since this happened. I have been doubting myself and my reactions like I have not done in years. I want everyone to know who has posted in this thread that you are helping me to get grounded with myself in the aftermath of what occurred.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Aug 09, 2008 11:06 AM GMT
    Like the guys have said before
    Without knowing the full extent of what was done to you any advise is going to have to be tentative

    But... that being said
    any unwanted sexual advances are wrong and constitute an invasion of your body
    Your keeping what was done a secret tells me that you're ashamed of what was done to you
    and your friends making light of it maybe that they are uncomfortable with the information that you gave them

    Getting down to it
    Are you going to be able to do anything at this point?
    Legally, probably not
    BUT...you can make the decision that this will NEVER ever happen to you again
    if someone grabs you - you have every right in the world to haul off and do anything you want physically to get them off of you
    you can also tell them that you'll sue there ass if they do it again
    Do Not let this man stop you from going back into that bar
    And if you see the guy again you can publicly laugh at him and point him out to your friends that he was the drunken loser who groped you in the bar
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    Aug 09, 2008 9:04 PM GMT

    GQjock saidif someone grabs you - you have every right in the world to haul off and do anything you want physically to get them off of you


    LOL, no you don't. You have a right to match or I would reckon one -up their level of aggression, but I definitely know you don't have the right to do what ever you want to something like a grope.

    Guys, we are talking about a grope here. If you are hauling off and slugging people because you got groped in a gay bar (HOW UNEXPECTED!!), then you need to stay your ass home...and seek help.
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    Aug 09, 2008 9:35 PM GMT
    Look I think it matters about the details. If he did something to you that you didn't tell him to do, or if you did and wanted him to stop and told him and he didn't then you're ok. If you felt uncomfortable then you have the complete right to press charges. Assault is assault and if you have had this many problems afterwards psychologically then it is right for you to press charges. I feel that the idea that men always want it is retarded. Men can be assaulted just as easy as a woman can. Its not about the physical pain its the emotional. All I say is if what you told the cop was true and it wa assault then turn the bastard in. I have almost been assaulted myself and it was a terrifying experience. Thank god I ran into someone I knew at a bar to take me to my car.... if he wasn't there I was afraid i was going to get hurt by this man. It is why I take MMA and jujitsu classes now.... so I never have to feel helpless again.

    And on the issue of the people in the bar. Most people unless you hang out with them outside of a bar are not your friends. Most bar flys can be ass wholes so dont go back there again and get some help and turn the bastard in.
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    Aug 10, 2008 12:19 PM GMT
    GQjock said
    Your keeping what was done a secret tells me that you're ashamed of what was done to you


    I have kept it a secret from the legal system, but not from the cop who advised me, nor from others in the bar, nor from my friends and nor from those I have contacted to resolve this.

    GQjock said
    Are you going to be able to do anything at this point?
    Legally, probably not


    That's not the message I got when I called the national sexual assault hotline. Pressing charges in still under discussion.

    GQjock said
    if someone grabs you - you have every right in the world to haul off and do anything you want physically to get them off of you


    And whoever I hit can then press assault charges against me. I have no criminal record and intend to keep it that way. I guess I am just not that big on macho grandstanding. Although, if the truth be known, I have always been too lazy to fight physically. I can be cutting enough with my tongue, that I have never had a need to raise a fist physically since I was 12.

    GQjock said
    Do Not let this man stop you from going back into that bar


    This is not due solely to the incident itself. The fact many in the bar seem to condone the actions of the perpetrator lets me know I have little in common with others who go to the bar. Additionally, I have recently become aware that I no longer care to be around those who drink. This is the third time this year wherein drunks have impacted my life in a negative way. That leaves only one question to answer, which is, 'why am I exposing myself to those who drink, when I know the alcohol impacts their behavior in a negative way, which I would prefer not to have in my life?"
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    Aug 10, 2008 2:12 PM GMT
    muchmorethanmuscle said
    I don't necessarily agree that just because I'm in a bar that people can grope me.


    I agree with you.

    muchmorethanmuscle said
    If you were to grope a bartender or any member of the staff you can bet your ass will be violently shuffled out of that bar by the bouncers of the establishment.


    This is indeed the policy at this bar. The bartenders and bouncers all told me to let them know if something like this happens so they can pitch the offenders in the streets.

    muchmorethanmuscle said
    But when it comes to the patrons who pay money we're simply supposed to just tolerate it, shut up and grin about it.


    No, the bar does not tolerate this behavior, although there are some who frequent the bar who do tolerate it and take issue with the fact that I do not tolerate it. I was told by some that I should ask the guy to stop. I don't see the point in that, when we are discussing a person who does this repeatedly and thereby demonstrated he has no intention of stopping, even if asked nicely.
  • Aquanerd

    Posts: 845

    Aug 10, 2008 2:47 PM GMT


    And on the issue of the people in the bar. Most people unless you hang out with them outside of a bar are not your friends. Most barflys can be ass wholes so don't go back there again and get some help and turn the bastard in. [/quote]


    I completely agree. To me you have two bars you should cross off your list. Any guy that don't support a brother that has been assaulted; whether "just a grope" of a full on assault" is not someone I'd want to be around, period. And based on some of the posts here, there are more bars out there to add to the list.

    ...and as for "the need to know the details" before giving advise, the a big load of "Barbara Streisand." There are a lot of gay men that need the wake up call that their "hetro soul mates" have been getting since the Women Lib movement of the 60's and 70's.

    Understand you guys , an unwanted grope is sexual assault. You can whine all you want about it, but understand, your gripes don't change the fact.

    Now, I'm not telling everyone to file charges against ever guy that gives you a grope. But if you don't want it to happen again, confront the guy. If it continues too the point that you are physically, psychologically effected negatively, then do not hesitate to take legal action if needed.

    But be a man, and confront the ass whole first. Unless the details included physical violence, then turn the "f@#ker" in!

    And for those barflys out their that that thinks it's okay to be aggressive without an invite. There are more than a few of us that will take issue with you, and will not hesitate to give you a reality check.

  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Aug 10, 2008 2:59 PM GMT
    It doesn't sound to me like you'll have much success pursuing this legally, but I think you should seek counseling for what happened.

    I'd also recommend taking a self defense course.
  • CurvDkBlkTop

    Posts: 30

    Aug 10, 2008 3:00 PM GMT


    CENTER,

    First and foremost, it is ridiculously unfortunate
    that this happened to you. Whatever steps YOU FEEL you need to do to get past this, move forward with that.

    From the Legal Side:

    I am glad you mentioned the quoted "definition" of 2nd degree Sexual Assault. The KEY component in that substantiation is "Without Consent." Unless you are also attaching an assault and battery charge with the 2nd Dg Sex. Assault, it is going to be difficult for an attorney to make any head way with your case. This is because you will have to build a character case regarding why you experienced your paralysis when the attack/assault was occurring. Going from the perspective of a "sensual encounter" GONE WRONG, the defense is going to press you as to why you did not make your displeasure known. Further, if they convince a jury that your paralysis was NOT happening because of a "distinct and reasonable fear of bodily HARM" then no instance of battery occurred by the "legal definition."

    Please understand, I am not judging you in any way; this is just where the proceedings of "law and justice" get VERY peculiar. THE GOOD NEWS IS, even in the extreme instance where you were giving this person consensual fellatio, and he ejaculated on you or in you during your protests and/or WITHOUT your permission, that can be considered sexual assault and battery...and I am using that very DRAMATIC example as a demonstration as to how tricky the law can be. Additionally, I have no idea to what degree the assault against you transpired. I do, however, want you to understand that it is NOT going to be a "cut and dry" scenario without the presence of witness testimony and your account of the events occurring under oath (and this is EXACTLY why I stopped providing Personal Security Services nine years ago...)

    If you can recall making a specific verbal communication for the perpetrator to CEASE the touching/groping/semi-or full penetration, then
    you ABSOLUTELY have grounds upon which to proceed legally...especially if you have witnesses that observed you struggling against this person, or heard
    your protests. If that is not the case, and you found yourself unable to act or speak, it is going to be VERY HARD to get a clear cut charge of assault to hold up without significant legal intervention and investigation.

    Either way, I do strongly encourage you to proceed in
    whatever manner you feel will most readily allow you to regain your peace of mind...and "off the record," the Swift UpperCut and Kick to the NUTS absolutely needs to occur if there is a subsequent invasion of your personal boundaries.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 27, 2008 2:18 AM GMT
    (This is my first post, so if i do something wrong please let me know.)

    Center, something like this happened to me back in my freshman year of high school.

    I have no idea what exactly happened to you, but what happened to me was full fledged rape.
    (Having something slipped in my drink and so on)

    I met him through a friend, she said he was bi-curious and told me about him.
    That night, he called me and we talked until 3 am.

    We met at a mall the next day and we had a blast.
    Talking with him was like floating on a cloud.

    He was captain (quarterback?) of his school's football team; a small exclusive fundamentalist private school outside of Nashville.
    He had the most perfect physique i had ever seen, because i was a little chunky back then and very shy.
    He was in the closet and i was not, so i decided i would not tell anyone that we were together.
    (It feels so odd to say that, cuz we only saw each other twice and only "went out" for roughly about 5 weeks.)

    About 3 weeks after we met at the mall, i spent that night at his house.

    And that is when it happened.

    He fixed me a protein shake, cuz i was curious about them, and i'm assuming that's when he drugged me.
    I don't know what he put in there, but his mom is a nurse, so it could have been anything.
    I remember most of what happened.
    It was very violent to me, he punched me in the face several times, one time he split my lip open, and rearranged his furniture to make it look like i tripped on it.
    And he made it last for a long time, he kept on prolonging himself.
    He had various things hidden in his room that he would just put inside of me.
    In my head i was hoping it would be over.
    I tried to scream, but that is when he slugged me in my head, that was when i was knocked unconcious.

    I woke up the next morning asleep on his floor, his parents were cooking breakfast.

    He was already up playing his X-Box when i woke up and i just looked at him for a good 3 minutes. He knew i was looking he didn't do anything.
    I got up and looked at myself in his dresser mirror.
    I looked like one of those women in a lifetime movie.
    My neck length red hair was tangled and completely all over the place, the wound on my lip had dried up and scabbed, i had a black eye, my head hurt like hell, i had either deep scratches or cuts on my stomach.
    I heaved a very deep sigh, and walked right into the bathroom right across his room.
    I made sure that no one saw my face.

    When i got to his bathroom, I peed, then I opened his medicine cabinet.
    I pulled out some off-brand Neosporin, peroxide, and a hairbrush.
    I put water in my hair and brushed it until i didn't look quite like a meth addict.
    Then I soaked my lip in peroxide, and put neosporin on it directly after.

    I walked back to his room and put on fresh clothes.
    I didn't say a word to him, but he came up to me and put a claw-like grip on my arm right after i put everything on, before i could do anything else and he led me over to his dresser, opened it and got out foundation and powder that oddly matched my complexion perfectly.
    (His mom was very red-faced and I'm pale-ish, so I was wondering if he bought it just for me. If he had this whole thing planned in advance)

    He put the makeup on me until it blended in perfectly and those areas were comepletely invisible.

    I was compelled to cry, but i was afraid to do anything that might piss him off.

    Later that day, my mom picked up me up at a nearby Burger King, and drove me home.

    As soon as I got home, I put my bags in my room, and went to sleep on my bed for about 12 hours.

    I didn't tell anyone about it until about a year and a half later.
    I didn't press any charges.

    It did affect me very bad about 6 months afterward, i was in and out of mental institutions all throughout 10th grade.
    Missed a lot of school, cuz i'd just skip and sleep.
    All i'd do was sleep cuz i was so doped up on medications that should not be prescribed to any 15 year old.

    I stopped caring about what i looked like, blew up to the size of a balloon.

    I started Self-Mutilation, and I REALLY do not want to sound like one of those stupid Emo kids, but i really did feel good for a while.

    After about a year of really bad depression, I finally got over it.
    I lost some weight. I'm still a tad on the overweight side, which is why i joined this site, because i wanna be back in control of my body, and i think it's time i can feel good about me and my body again.

    I stopped the cutting, cuz it wasn't getting me nowhere at all and it was fucking stupid as hell.

    I got off all my medications, except a low dose of Celexa.

    I'm 18 and in my senior year of high school, and i'm studying for a permit (something i should have got long ago, but i was just too lazy) and looking for an after school job (ditto previous quotation marks), I'm back on track and it feels good.

    So, I hope you get better, Center.

    I'm here to help you or anyone else who might want my help.
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    Sep 27, 2008 3:49 AM GMT
    I've been a victim of violent, forcible rape on two occasions, once when I was 14, the next when I was 23. I'm not talking about the fun kind of "fantasy rape" where you know where your balance of power exists and can tap into it if need be. I mean real, brutal, rape.

    There have been times when I was younger that similar things as you describe happened to me. I had to learn to fight back, and sometimes that means physically assaulting the other guy. You have the right to protect your person from unwanted sexual assault. My heart goes out to you.

    Having said that, you must understand that in a gay bar there are three factors that allow for an inherently high danger level:

    1) Horny gay men who feel as though they are in a "safe zone" when it comes to freely excercising their sexuality,

    2) The expectation on the part of most patrons that everyone there is likely seeking a sexual encounter, and...

    3) Alcohol, which as most anyone can tell you, throws a great deal of unpredictability into an already unstable situation.

    You might consider seeking Gay fellowship in a Gay social club or Gay church, instead of a Gay bar. But, should you find yourself in a similar situation where someone is sexually assualting you, punch the bastard's teeth out, and then before he can retaliate, break a beer bottle to use as a weapon and threaten him with it if he doesn't back off.

    My best wishes to you!
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    Sep 27, 2008 4:03 PM GMT
    I'm really glad you spoke out about this Center. Some men figure that because they find you attractive, and if you speak back to them, you're automatically their possession to with as they please. I personally hate having my space invaded, especially if it's by some random creep in a bar who reaks of cigarrette smoke and booze. Neither you nor anyone else should have to take this crap, but the problem is society along with the gay community tolerates it. The more people who take a stand the less socially acceptable it'll become.

    Thanks.

    PS Keep seeing the counselor, I'm taking classes towards becoming a counselor right now and there are two maladies. Acute stress disorder (can linger for around a month after a traumatic event) and post traumatic stress disorder (which lingers for about a month, and can linger for a long time if not dealt with).
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    Sep 27, 2008 4:51 PM GMT
    I've been groped in the same gay bar a few times, by drunken guys who shoulda been tossed out, if only on the basis of their public intoxication. I don't know if your incident was worse than mine, but at no time did I ever blame myself, or feel bad about myself because of it.

    The fault was those jerks, and their behavior might well have qualified as sexual harassment. I didn't consider it a serious enough matter for the police because I wasn't physically harmed, nor terribly upset about it. They were drunken idiots, I wasn't, it ended and I didn't let it haunt me.

    What I DID do, however, was inform the manager on duty, and later the owner, whom I happened to know. And made it clear that failing to keep these guys in line, who were mostly known for it, like in your episode, would cost them my business and that of my friends.

    It wasn't a perfect solution, because as my story here implies, it happened more than once over a period of years in this place. But the bartenders and managers would at least try to monitor these characters, plus the security at the front door. This club wasn't big enough for a full security staff with roving bouncers.

    Try not to let it get to you. This stuff happens, it's wrong, and only you know if it was truly a criminal matter, which would merit police involvement. Don't let THEIR bad behavior spoil YOUR future good times.