have the tides changed enough that is it actually more difficult to stay IN THE CLOSET, than to just come out?

  • Import

    Posts: 7190

    Jul 27, 2012 3:25 PM GMT
    U understand what I mean?

    Gays todays are encouraged to "not hide" "come out"....not only for yourself, but for everyone that is gay

    is there pressure now to come out? Like stop hiding already? People don't care. Dont live a life of lies? Help bring about the change that is needed in society.

    or has not all that much changed and the Media is over-hyping the whole gay thing with same-sex marriage a hot topic issue now.

    what do u think?
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Jul 27, 2012 3:28 PM GMT
    I don't know if there is pressure, but there is definitely message that it is better to be out ... and it is ... harboring such secrets can make you crazy and very unhappy
  • d694485

    Posts: 222

    Jul 27, 2012 3:29 PM GMT
    I'm not exactly self-sufficient, so I'm scared of coming out. Maybe I just think the worst of things, but i'm afraid i'll be abandoned or something like that. And I'm afraid of being assaulted icon_sad.gif I'm such a pessimist. But I do see your point.
  • LJay

    Posts: 11612

    Jul 27, 2012 3:54 PM GMT
    I think that it is part of the times that younger straight folks are much more apt to be accepting. Whether this is a cause or a effect is open to question, but it is certainly the case that being gay matters less and less to society in general.

    On the other hand, we do live in a highly fragmented world and the Chick-fil-A crowd is here for sure. You should read the article about same in the Richmond Times-Dispatch* today. (Not only the familiar stuff, but also a politician holding Chick-fil-A victory parties! You may be assured he is not a member of any of the more progressive groups.) I would hardly call that pressure to come out.

    *http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/virginia-politics/2012/jul/27/tdmain04-chick-fil-a-a-flashpoint-of-political-deb-ar-2087652/
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    Jul 27, 2012 4:00 PM GMT
    I feel like it's always been more difficult to be in the closet despite the general social outlook on homosexuality. Living two different lives as opposed to one, where you are finally comfortable with who you are, is always going to be stressful and unhealthy. This coming from someone who has only come out to a select few.
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    Jul 27, 2012 4:01 PM GMT
    LJay saidI think that it is part of the times that younger straight folks are much more apt to be accepting. Whether this is a cause or a effect is open to question, but it is certainly the case that being gay matters less and less to society in general.
    I agree with this, also there are many more resources available both at the local level and online. Awareness is very up, acceptance is much greater and as time goes I think it becomes more and more of a non-issue so coming out is more and more just done as a part of growing up instead of a later in life 'change'.
  • drypin

    Posts: 1798

    Jul 27, 2012 4:01 PM GMT
    Maybe they have.

    I mean, 60 years ago it was still seen as a shocking personal risk for a man to admit publicly to being attracted to other men. Everyone seemed to "understand" why he kept it a secret.

    Nowadays there seems to be a general attitude that you're an insecure pussy if you're gay and you haven't come out by the time you're out of high school. I guess the exception would be people pursuing certain careers, and even then the tolerance for men staying in the closet is getting less and less.

    I assume we're speaking of the US. There was no mention of location in the original post, but I think the OP is clever enough to know that the situation is very different in some parts of the world.
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    Jul 27, 2012 4:17 PM GMT
    Yes, I do think that is actually what has happened and is an accurate snapshot of predominant views in western societies.

    However, I find that even when people ARE somewhat disturbed by the notion of homosexuality and those that are homosexual, they still expect gay people to come out and declare their sexuality to the world. It's a strange phenomenon in this type of instance, IMO. A kind of 'love the sinner, hate the sin' slightly ignorant, condescending, but well-intentioned mentality. But, nonetheless intriguing.

    It can only be a good thing that more people are coming out of the closet these days, and i've recently felt more personally convicted to stand up and be acknowledged and respected for this part of my life, myself. Maturing, I suppose.
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    Jul 27, 2012 5:28 PM GMT
    Import saidU understand what I mean?

    Gays todays are encouraged to "not hide" "come out"....not only for yourself, but for everyone that is gay

    is there pressure now to come out? Like stop hiding already? People don't care. Dont live a life of lies? Help bring about the change that is needed in society.

    or has not all that much changed and the Media is over-hyping the whole gay thing with same-sex marriage a hot topic issue now.

    what do u think?




    It's so hipster like cool to be gay.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 27, 2012 6:01 PM GMT
    I think it's more an issue of contrast in the mindset of the younger generations (somewhere around 40ish and below) vs the older generations. For the most part, I've seen no change in the friendship/relationship I have with people from the younger generations. One's sexual orientation is more of a circumstance of life (like hair color or ethnicity) rather than an indication of the quality of ones character. The older generations are a completely different story. It does seem, however, that the younger generation are having a louder and louder voice on this subject, and I'm happy about that. It's about time!
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    Jul 27, 2012 6:04 PM GMT
    Well I used to go to this centre for sexual and gender diversity at my university, and there was a kind of unspoken pressure to come out. I wasn't out then, but I am now.
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    Jul 27, 2012 6:05 PM GMT
    Import said have the tides changed enough that is it actually more difficult to stay IN THE CLOSET, than to just come out?
    Yes. That's exactly why the homophobes vote against equal rights, and the reason they're afraid of us. They're afraid we'll bust them out of the closet before they're ready if we have equal rights.
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    Jul 27, 2012 6:10 PM GMT
    paulflexes said
    Import said have the tides changed enough that is it actually more difficult to stay IN THE CLOSET, than to just come out?
    Yes. That's exactly why the homophobes vote against equal rights, and the reason they're afraid of us. They're afraid we'll bust them out of the closet before they're ready if we have equal rights.

    The genie has been let out of the bottle. NOTHING will force us back in now.
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    Jul 27, 2012 6:11 PM GMT
    Aress said
    paulflexes said
    Import said have the tides changed enough that is it actually more difficult to stay IN THE CLOSET, than to just come out?
    Yes. That's exactly why the homophobes vote against equal rights, and the reason they're afraid of us. They're afraid we'll bust them out of the closet before they're ready if we have equal rights.

    The genie has been let out of the bottle. NOTHING will force us back in now.
    I already had the genie. He wasn't all that.
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    Jul 27, 2012 6:12 PM GMT
    It is ALWAYS easier to live in silence, say nothing and hide in shadows.

    Also easy to ride on the backs of those who choose not to.

    Pressure from the outside world will always exist in one way or another.

    It is the pressure from within that makes a difference.
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    Jul 27, 2012 6:19 PM GMT
    No, I think both choices still have their own challenges. Personally, I'm not one to conform to the herd mentality of "everyone's doing it," but I know a lot of guys want to fit in. I'm also repelled by the idea that I have to label myself for the general public. For me, the better approach is on an "as needed basis," like if I were seriously involved with someone. Otherwise, it's not really anyone else's business. Sorta like Sally Ride did.
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    Jul 27, 2012 8:22 PM GMT
    sf_swimmer saidNo, I think both choices still have their own challenges. Personally, I'm not one to conform to the herd mentality of "everyone's doing it," but I know a lot of guys want to fit in. I'm also repelled by the idea that I have to label myself for the general public. For me, the better approach is on an "as needed basis," like if I were seriously involved with someone. Otherwise, it's not really anyone else's business. Sorta like Sally Ride did.


    There simply is no right or wrong to whether one "comes out" or not. One can make political assessments about each of these positions, which are quite valid (such as Cash posted above), but the real issue is how good is life going to be for the person making that decision. To say that one "must" do one or the other is simply disingenuous about consequences, both intended and unintended. Just because it turned out well for someone--of course one is delighted to hear that--does not mean it would be a good result for everyone without exception.

    However, I think the socialization which one undergoes in the processes of life definitely make long-term, deep-seated attitudes about the willingness for one making the decision to choose to come out, and a large part of that is age-related/generational. Younger people have only emotionally known the years and the influences of the years in which they have lived, obviously. Thus, younger people have lived during a period of time where being labeled as homosexual is acceptable, much more than earlier and would not now be a death knell for important considerations (such as, for example, career choices, usually.) Thus, it seems today for younger people it makes much more sense to come out and live their lives however. For an older person, the decision has a lot more potential baggage with which to deal, which may or may not be a good idea for THAT person's emotional well-being. It really is an individual decision. Most importantly, there is no "obligation" that one should come out for the betterment of others. It is extremely good and nice if they do, but is is NOT an obligation so to do.

    An example of this lack of obligation is the unfortunately-now-late Sally Ride. Her sexual orientation, were it known earlier, would have seriously impeded in those earlier years the effectiveness of her life's works and accomplishments, as the stupid media would have been continually harping on her homosexuality and options she enjoyed might well have been denied to her on that account, including possibly having been chosen as an astronaut.
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    Jul 27, 2012 9:01 PM GMT
    Tides for Key West, south side, Hawk Channel starting with August 1, 2012.

    Day High Tide Height Sunrise Moon Time % Moon
    /Low Time Feet Sunset Visible

    W 1 Low 2:15 AM 0.4 6:56 AM Set 6:21 AM 97
    1 High 8:55 AM 2.4 8:11 PM Rise 7:47 PM
    1 Low 3:49 PM -0.2
    1 High 10:03 PM 1.4

    Th 2 Low 3:11 AM 0.3 6:56 AM Set 7:22 AM 99
    2 High 9:44 AM 2.4 8:10 PM Rise 8:29 PM
    2 Low 4:28 PM -0.1
    2 High 10:39 PM 1.5

    Don't understand what tides has to do with the topic...icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 27, 2012 9:14 PM GMT
    The only people in the closet that piss me off are the ones who build straight relationships and have a bunch of kids while fucking guys on the side and then decide one day, "oh this marriage thing isn't for me, later", abandon the wife and kids. I think its shitty. Come out now and save your future family the headache.
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    Jul 27, 2012 9:33 PM GMT
    Really...closet cases going to use Sally Ride as an example not to come out????

    may wanna rethink that?
    Keep compartmentalizing...get back to me in ten years when there is absolutely no good men left.
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    Jul 27, 2012 10:42 PM GMT
    sf_swimmer saidNo, I think both choices still have their own challenges. Personally, I'm not one to conform to the herd mentality of "everyone's doing it," but I know a lot of guys want to fit in. I'm also repelled by the idea that I have to label myself for the general public. For me, the better approach is on an "as needed basis," like if I were seriously involved with someone. Otherwise, it's not really anyone else's business. Sorta like Sally Ride did.


    Just say yer a pussy and get it over with.

    TRUST Me - EVERYone knows it.

    They also know yer Gay.

    icon_neutral.gificon_neutral.gificon_neutral.gif