Creatine and what else?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 10, 2008 7:58 PM GMT
    ok so dont everyone freak out on me, im 20 years old and 190 lbs i recently got a personal trainer and he is definitely working for me but results are sooo slow. I have been working out now for 3 years on and off. Im not dedicated to weightlifting and bodybuilding but i rarely skip a week at the gym. I normally do 2 days of one hour cardio and 3 days of lifting for one hour. Although i see results they are very minimal. I have tried everything to get bigger except any major supplements like creatine or even worse 'roids. I also need to lose about 10 lbs off my belly. I eat very well and i think i have a good workout plan however i think i need somthing to maybe give me a little (or big) boost. I am obviously afraid of gaining weight with creatine and many other supplements but i think it would be good to try since more people talk about the good than the bad. What do you all think? what are your experiences with Creatine. All my buddies from high school are now jacked up from creatine use and look awesome and im still just me. Im mainly looking for someone who was like me, not that built yet, etc that can tell me what they did to get a decent bod and get bigger. I dont want to hear negative creatine stories unless it directly relates to what im talking about.
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    Aug 10, 2008 10:25 PM GMT
    Bro, creatine is great, its one of the few supplements with solid scientific research backing it. The one thing I would add is a good protein powder like Optimum Nutrition's Pro Complex. I would recommend a protein shake before your workout, an hour after your workout, before going to bed, and make sure you get some protein first thing in the morning. Protein is king when it comes to building muscle.

    You might initially gain a little weight from creatine, but it will be water weight. Creatine after your workout will not make you add body fat.
  • MuslDrew

    Posts: 463

    Aug 10, 2008 10:59 PM GMT
    The best thing you can do is eat lots of protein. Try consuming upon awakening and at least every 3 hours after. Also, some protein at bedtime. Drink tons of water. If you're worried about fat accumulation, then stay away from procesed carbs and keep you portions of good carbs moderate. Creatine will give you a boost. You could also look into glutamine. But it's your diet more than anything. A trainer once told me "You look like what you eat"
    I visited Boynton Beach last fall. Nice town. Also liked Delrey Beach and Lauderdale of course.
    Best of luck on your gains.
  • B71115

    Posts: 482

    Aug 11, 2008 12:21 AM GMT
    what drew said. save your creatine money unless it makes you think something good is happening. get protein, meal replacement shakes and glutamine. and work out with weights more than three days a week. you aren't lifting enough to get bigger.
    oh, and your friends didn't get jacked on creatine. just sayin.
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    Aug 11, 2008 2:25 AM GMT
    Again, not looking for comments other than about creatine or other suggestions of supplements. My mom is one of the leading dieticians in the united states, i dont need lectures about eating. I have a really slow metabolism and am naturally really lazy. This doesnt affect me anymore becuz i now have a pretty good workout routine however nothing is really changing right now. I have tried both losing weight and gaining muscle for the past 3 years and i have definintely lost a lot of weight and gained a lot of muscle but its taking a long time. I will look into glutamine, since my trainer, mom, B71115, and musldrew suggested it. Thanks guys for ur help....icon_wink.gif
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    Aug 11, 2008 2:30 AM GMT
    I have limited results with creatine and some of them upsets my stomach. I think getting enough protein (and food in general) is important. I like glutamine and you don't have to use a whole lot of it. GABA at night works well for me also.
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    Aug 11, 2008 4:18 AM GMT
    This thread deals with creatine more completely:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/248990/
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    Aug 11, 2008 4:33 AM GMT
    MuslDrew saidThe best thing you can do is eat lots of protein. Try consuming upon awakening and at least every 3 hours after. Also, some protein at bedtime. Drink tons of water. If you're worried about fat accumulation, then stay away from procesed carbs and keep you portions of good carbs moderate. Creatine will give you a boost. You could also look into glutamine. But it's your diet more than anything. A trainer once told me "You look like what you eat"
    I visited Boynton Beach last fall. Nice town. Also liked Delrey Beach and Lauderdale of course.
    Best of luck on your gains.



    do you mean like right at bed time?

    Also...it is best to ensure you ingest casein protein at night in stead of whey...why? Casein takes longer to be metabolized, which is what you want before bed. Whey protein is metabolized fairly quickly
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    Aug 11, 2008 4:35 AM GMT
    Dude.....like....eat some steaks.....
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    Aug 11, 2008 4:45 AM GMT
    sixxfive saidDude.....like....eat some steaks.....


    mmmmmm...murder...tasty tasty murder!

    too bad it is so high in fat! Substitute that for buffalo (bison)...very lean and equally as tasty if prepared right
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    Aug 11, 2008 5:08 AM GMT
    I'm trying to move up a weight class too. And I gained about 15 lbs in the last 2 months using N.O. Explode before workouts and drinking protein shakes and taking Cell Mass after. It's worked so far.
  • UncleverName

    Posts: 741

    Aug 11, 2008 3:38 PM GMT
    Given what everyone else has said, I would definitely not shy away from using creatine. I've used it myself in the past, and know that it can work for you.

    Having said that, I'm guessing, based on what you posted, that you could be working harder. I was stuck in a rut for a long long time, until I started seeing my trainer. The huge difference that my trainer made was that he made me work a lot harder. The first few workouts with him, I wanted to puke, that's how hard I hit the weights. He made me lift more than I had ever lifted before, faster than I had ever lifted it. And to make it even harder, instead of taking a break between sets, he'd quite often make me do pullups, or pushups, or something else.

    He also told me about your body/nervous system's arousal rate. He made me do a really intense warm up (usually for about 5 minutes, doing core stuff), so that my body had done work at about level 9 intensity. The thinking was that if I was going to do weights/cardio at level 8, forcing my body to do some work first that was at level 9 would ensure that my body did the weights/cardio at level 8, instead of level 6 or 7.

    The same applies to cardio. How hard is your cardio? Do you do a 5 mile run in under an hour? Is your heart rate in the fat burning zone, or in the cardio zone, when you are working?

    Focus on real world results for awhile, and the weight will come off. Try getting your time running up 6 flights of stairs down, or getting your one mile run time down (on top of doing weights and cardio). I personally suspect those things will help you lose the last 10LBs better/faster than Creatine or NoExplode.
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    Aug 11, 2008 8:03 PM GMT
    thanks UNCLEVER lol....those r some good starts....its kind of hard for me to run outside here in FL its really hot and i get heat stroke pretty easily but i tried it a couple times and i can barely run, i get soo tired soo easily but its mainly cuz i have a biggg butt...so it slows me down....I did a slow run inclusing some stretch stops and it took me 25 mins for about 3 miles. I figured doing longer on the treadmill would equal to running outside....I could be doing more cardio but i sometimes dont have the time but what im doing now should be enough to lose some weight....icon_wink.gif
  • Musclebucket

    Posts: 157

    Aug 11, 2008 8:07 PM GMT
    In additon to whey protein and Creatine, L- Glutamine has worked for me
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    Aug 25, 2008 9:11 PM GMT
    If you are looking to reduce belly fat while gaining muscle I would suggest CLA and L-carnitine in addition to a good protein shake (21-23g per scoop) and L-Glutimine. Both CLA and L-Carnitine, are known to reduce overall body fat, given a good eating and exercise plan.
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    Aug 25, 2008 9:46 PM GMT
    Creatine has helped me. The weight gain is temporary-- as soon as you stop, the weight comes off, because it is just water weight in your muscles, not fat. But the strength gain allows you to work harder (maybe 10%), which over the long run adds up in permanent gains in muscle mass. I have taken it for about 3 years, although I never take as much as the directions suggest (at 155 lbs I take about 1.5 grams a day).

    L-glutamine helps me to recover from soreness faster-- 2 days instead of 3.

    L-arginine also helps with blood flow to the muscles during workouts, letting you get more "pumped".

    I take about 1/2 what they suggest of each of these too.

    All three are substances you regularly eat anyway (although some formulations have them in "unnatural" salt forms). Being a vegetarian, I feel that supplementing them to my diet keeps me in the normal range. I believe that as long as you do not take more of each than a person could reasonably get from diet, they are safe.

    The best way to look at supplements is just that-- supplementing your diet, and supplementing your workout. Don't look for quick fixes-- but remember that even a 10% difference, when compounded over a long time, starts to add up pretty quickly (months rather than years).

    And with all of them, watch out for preparations that include extras like stimulants and sugars.
  • TexanMan82

    Posts: 893

    Aug 25, 2008 10:01 PM GMT
    From it looks like, you said you're lazy and aren't very dedicated to working out hard.

    I think I found the problem, and it ain't the lack of creatine.
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    Aug 25, 2008 10:58 PM GMT
    SoFloridaguy88 said I normally do 2 days of one hour cardio and 3 days of lifting for one hour. Although i see results they are very minimal. I have tried everything to get bigger except any major supplements like creatine or even worse 'roids. I also need to lose about 10 lbs off my belly. I eat very well and i think i have a good workout plan however i think i need somthing to maybe give me a little (or big) boost. I am obviously afraid of gaining weight with creatine and many other supplements but i think it would be good to try since more people talk about the good than the bad. What do you all think?


    I get good results with creatine. As long as the weight you gain is muscle and not fat, why focus so much on the number of the scale? I'm not a personal trainer, but I wonder if you might not do better with shorter but more frequent cardio workouts throughout the week. It is hard to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time but it can be done. Good luck.
  • ROYCE13

    Posts: 315

    Aug 29, 2008 5:24 AM GMT
    If you are 19 and cannot run in the florida heat, then you are more than lazy, lol, I am 43 and run in the Texas heat, you do get better results on the street, so mix it up and get out in the morning, if you can party like a rock star, your words, not mine, then work out like one, most of them are lean muscle guys, and i doubt they do any cardio other than the sexual kind
  • TexanMan82

    Posts: 893

    Aug 29, 2008 10:16 PM GMT
    [quote]if you can party like a rock star, your words, not mine, then work out like one, most of them are lean muscle guys, and i doubt they do any cardio other than the sexual kind[/quote]

    [cough]coke[/cough]
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    Aug 29, 2008 10:45 PM GMT
    Creatine = B.S.

    So does advice on: Eat, eat, eat = muscle gain. Total B.S.

    And so does any advice on: Eat more protein! Again, B.S.

    Supplements = placebo in your head.

    What you want really requires nothing more than:

    1) patience; these are big changes and take a loooong time to achieve
    2) caloric restriction = fat loss
    3) calories (from protein or otherwise) are NOT needed to gain muscle so long as you still have more than 4 to 5% bodyfat on you (which you do) and eat a balanced diet.

    Other than juicing (don't recommend; pricey/dangerous for HGH and very dangerous for steroids; I'd never try either but over 50% of gym jocks use one of the two), muscle building takes half a lifetime to achieve and a LOT of effort. You mentioned you're naturally lazy: well, working out half-assed will not gain you much; nor will anything other than a LOT of very dedicated hard workouts in lifting with idea rest between. Now, if you practically live in the gym and workout really hard with extreme diligence, then yes, you'll look huge in terms of muscle in 6 to 12 years or so even without 'juicing'. But most of us don't have time to practically live in the gym and maintain a life too. And that changes 6-12 years into half a lifetime or more to get to 'huge'.

    Finally, and this is important, whether fat loss or muscle gain (you can totally do both at the same time): it's all a matter of physics. Caloric restriction (within safe limits) = fat loss. Period. And "injury" (in terms of a good workout) to muscle will yield muscle gain. Period. If you cut yourself, your body will repair it---it doesn't care if you are currently not eating as much as you used to, nor does it care how much protein is in your diet within reason (so long as at least some is there), it will draw upon your body's fat reserves if it has to but it will do it. Period. The only time your body really cannibalizes its own muscle (or other) tissue is under unsafe extreme caloric restriction, complete lack of dietary protein intake (under 5 to 10% of macronutrients), under severe exercise (like cardio or gym for more than an hour or so), or when ravaged by disease.


  • TexanMan82

    Posts: 893

    Aug 29, 2008 10:56 PM GMT
    [quote]so does advice on: Eat, eat, eat = muscle gain. Total B.S.[/quote]

    Says the guy who's 5'11 and 150 lbs.---No offense.

    Think of building muscle as if you are building a house.

    If you don't have all the materials necessary to build a house (concrete, bricks, mortar, etc...) it won't be built.

    Same with muscle. If you don't provide your body with the necessary nutrients (protein, fat, carbs) it will be VERY difficult to build any muscle.

    Yes, you need to eat a lot to build muscle. I've never heard of your body drawing on fat stores to build muscle. Source?

    Food is the most anabolic stuff on earth...besides hormones, of course.
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    Aug 30, 2008 12:44 AM GMT
    TexanMan82 saidSays the guy who's 5'11 and 150 lbs.---No offense.

    That's because I have very little fat on me at all, AND because I don't live in the gym (i work out 2-3 times a week for half hour each time), AND because I'm not juicing, AND because I've only been working out for a couple years. LOL.

    Quite the no-brainer.

    Anyway, are you implying that in order to gain 5 lbs of muscle you need to eat several hundred (or thousands of) pounds of food? (that IS what you're implying, if you add up the extra food weight you'd be consuming each day over a period of many months if not years).

    By the same logic, if you tore a nice big gash in your arm that wound would only heal if you ate extra calories compared to what you've been eating to maintain existing weight?

    You'd certainly need your "building materials" to repair/replace damaged tissue from that wound, right?


  • TexanMan82

    Posts: 893

    Aug 30, 2008 7:28 AM GMT
    americanjustin said
    TexanMan82 saidSays the guy who's 5'11 and 150 lbs.---No offense.

    That's because I have very little fat on me at all, AND because I don't live in the gym (i work out 2-3 times a week for half hour each time), AND because I'm not juicing, AND because I've only been working out for a couple years. LOL.

    Quite the no-brainer.

    Anyway, are you implying that in order to gain 5 lbs of muscle you need to eat several hundred (or thousands of) pounds of food? (that IS what you're implying, if you add up the extra food weight you'd be consuming each day over a period of many months if not years).

    By the same logic, if you tore a nice big gash in your arm that wound would only heal if you ate extra calories compared to what you've been eating to maintain existing weight?

    You'd certainly need your "building materials" to repair/replace damaged tissue from that wound, right?




    You're certainly doing something wrong if it takes you years to put on 5 lbs of muscle. It's probably because you aren't EATING enough.

    Are you seriously claiming that muscle builds in accordance with your fat stores? Once again, do you have a source for this claim?

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    Aug 30, 2008 10:01 AM GMT
    The answers on here are some of the stupidest bullshit I have ever seen in my life. It is absolutely flooring to me to see guys parroting shit they have absolutely no knowledge of, or basis to claim. While I may not know all there is to know about every aspect of exercise physiology I will say I have passed all my practice exams for the American College of Sports Medicine Certified Personal Trainer exam, and I feel well prepared to deal with the subject matter of this question.

    First off in order to optimally build muscle you do need to consume more calories. To imply that eating and eating is not necessary to build muscle is the dumbest thing I ever heard. That being said it is not necessary nor advisable to be eat like a complete hog and put on 25 pounds of fat for 10 pounds of muscle.

    Creatine is not BS. It is one of the most well researched supplements in existence with an overwhelming amount of data showing it is safe and effective. Anyone that says creatine is BS clearly has no idea what they are talking about and should be completely ignored. Creatine is also not all water weight. Creatine will help the anabolic processes that build muscle period. That being said, creatine is a supplement, a help, it will not overcome incorrect training or diet.

    Whey Protein is another supplement that is well researched and backed by an overwhelming amount of scientific evidence. The research done used control groups on placebo and it shows conclusively that the supplemental protein is not just a placebo effect. The increased need for protein when building muscle is as much science as the earth is round.

    Calories are absolutely necessary to build muscle. In people who are just starting it is possible to lose fat and add muscle. However, beyond that initial honeymoon period building muscle and losing fat are biological opposites and there are physiological reasons why it is nearly impossible to do so after your initial start up period. Body fat levels of 3 to 4% are considered essential fats, another words essential for life. Your body is not going to take fat and turn it into muscle anyway, since there is no direct biological conversion mechanism, and it sure is hell is not going to do it at single digit body fat levels when the body is doing everything it can to hold on to fat. Anyone that says that you can build muscle while cutting to the 4 to 5% level has never done it. When you cut with caloric restriction your body will lose some (minimal) but some muscle. The more protein in your diet the less likely you are to lose lean muscle mass. Your body simply does not burn up fat and use that to repair your injured muscles...ridiculous.

    Next, bro, if you aren't getting the results you want then maybe you should be more open to feedback instead of stubbornly stating you don't want hear any comments about anything other then one particular area. If it doesn't apply or is just plain stupid then just toss that shit out and look for the stuff that you can use. Maybe just maybe somebody would say something that would give you that one particular key idea that would change everything. Most of the stuff said in these forums is irritatingly inaccurate, misinformed and usually just being parroted with no real knowledge. I try to take my answers to a better level then that. When I answer a question like this it's based on the scientific evidence.

    I would suggest you increase your lifting to a two on, one off schedule. I would also suggest that you instead of the long slow cardio you are currently doing, that you switch to HIIT, High Intensity Interval Traiing. It has been shown in reputable studies to help reduce the belly fat you're worried about and it has less chance of causing lean muscle loss. If you question this at all, look up pics from the Olympics and look at the physiques of the marathon runners versus the sprint runners.

    I've covered a lot here so if you have specific questions or would like specific help with anything please feel free to send me a message and I will try to help. Good luck bro.