Fair Game or definite foul?

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    Aug 11, 2008 7:47 PM GMT
    Hey guys just looking to see what your thoughts are on this scenario: We have a guy, which we will call John and he is living with/together with a guy we will call James. (Names changed to protect the innocent and the guilty) John is fed up with James and on the verge of leaving James but he's finding it hard to do. James continually cheats on John, and has been physically abusive. James also has not had a job in over a month, leaving the full economic burden of the house and bills on John. John is a great guy with a big heart and is probably afraid of James and that's why the trouble leaving him. Do you think in this case it is fair game to pursue John? Normally, I would call it a definite foul to pursue someone who is in a relationship, but in this case would you say its fair game or a definite foul?

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    Aug 11, 2008 7:55 PM GMT
    Pursue what? Friendship? Sex? Dating?.....

    Right off the bat check to see if the story is true. Is James really a lazy, cheating, abusive boyfriend? And honestly, even if John is only remaining part out of fear and part out of financial commitment do you think before John jumps into another relationship he needs time to decompress?

    Always Pursue new healthy friendships. If the guy is carrying a lot of current baggage give him time to unpack and put some of that away.
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    Aug 11, 2008 7:58 PM GMT
    Sounds like John has enough to worry about. If he's such a good guy with such a big heart, no doubt he'll stress over cheating on James, even if it is 'warranted.' Be a friend and help him come to his senses and ditch the douchebag, then see where things go from there.

    Edit: Oops...I forgot to ask the obvious question. Is this you wanting validation in pursuing the guy, or is he looking for a justification for pursuing a relationship outside the one with James?
  • Mars

    Posts: 158

    Aug 11, 2008 8:01 PM GMT
    Better to wait, unless all you want from this guy (assuming you are successfull in getting him) is to be a rebound guy. Relationships that involve abuse as you have mentioned most often do not come without emotional complications.

    Be his friend and let nature take its course between the 2 of you. He needs a real friend right now more than he needs anything else.
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    Aug 11, 2008 8:01 PM GMT
    Friend, yes. Affair, no.
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    Aug 11, 2008 8:11 PM GMT
    YngHungSFSD saidHey guys just looking to see what your thoughts are on this scenario: We have a guy, which we will call John and he is living with/together with a guy we will call James. (Names changed to protect the innocent and the guilty) John is fed up with James and on the verge of leaving James but he's finding it hard to do. James continually cheats on John, and has been physically abusive. James also has not had a job in over a month, leaving the full economic burden of the house and bills on John. John is a great guy with a big heart and is probably afraid of John and that's why the trouble leaving him. Do you think in this case it is fair game to pursue John? Normally, I would call it a definite foul to pursue someone who is in a relationship, but in this case would you say its fair game or a definite foul?



    Do yourself a favor and steer clear of the drama!
    John needs to leave the guy and gain some self conifidence - no matter how great he is, I think you are just asking for an ass-load of head ache and heart ache and possibly, ultimately, you and John not liking each other. He has a cloud over his head and until he can clear it (perosnally), it will just follow him and rain on some one elses parade...
    This guy needs a Dr. Phil moment, not a new boyfriend.
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    Aug 12, 2008 12:05 AM GMT
    Ditto with Bodywork.

    You can't save him. He has to save himself. You would be inheriting both of them--even if you only get to sleep with one. The fact that there is physical and emotional abuse says there is much lurking beneath the surface even if John is entirely blameless and "the victim"--and it's all dark under there.

    There are many fish in the sea. You don't have to pick up the best of the moray eels.
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    Aug 12, 2008 1:08 AM GMT
    FOUL!!!!!
  • Timbales

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    Aug 12, 2008 1:09 AM GMT
    Fair or foul, it's not a situation I'd want to get into the middle of.
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    Aug 12, 2008 1:36 AM GMT
    Probably fair if John says he announces to James it is over. But bad timing for whoever the third party is because the state That John will probably be in. It takes time to get a toxic boyfriend out of your system and like timberoo said, it not a good situation to be in.
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    Aug 12, 2008 4:04 AM GMT
    Yeah you guys are completely right, this is sure to be a no win situation. A lot of testosterone and a little alcohol (and I rarely drink( on Saturday had me flirting with a mess. Thankfully phone numbers were the only thing exchanged. I do appreciate the compassion in the statement that he needs a friend. I can do that part, but yeah this is not where I want to go. I've been around long enough to know full well that James is a bastard. Even though the evil part of me thinks the bastard deserves to lose him and its all fair game, I don't need to or want to inherit a mess which this is sure to be. Thanks for slapping the testosterone soaked wits back to reality.
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    Aug 12, 2008 4:10 AM GMT
    For some reason Heather Locklear and Denise Richards comes to mind.

    Don't fuck the flockicon_idea.gif
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    Aug 12, 2008 4:20 AM GMT
    YngHungSFSD said I do appreciate the compassion in the statement that he needs a friend.

    Yeah, friends are good, but even that can be a drain if you are not careful. Of course knowing the rescuer you described yourself to be in another thread it would be pointless to say don't get involved at all. It's in your nature just like it is mine. I would like to think after 45 years I am at least a little more smarter before taking these projects on.

    I always have to ask myself, "Am I in love with this person, or their pain?" Oh well, I have no regrets, just bumps, bruises, cuts, clawmarks .. etc lol icon_lol.gif
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    Aug 12, 2008 4:53 AM GMT
    Yeah, I think I have enough experience to be just a friend and to draw the lines carefully. Although for the most part my role will be limited to supporting what he decides to do. I learned a long time ago with domestic abuse you can't rescue anyone that doesn't want to be rescued. Although I still have a lot to learn in many areas, I've learned to quickly retreat if the drama factor rises to quickly or if I feel excessive dependence is coming up. When the calls go from once or twice a week to everyday to every four hours...its time to call shenanigans.
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    Aug 12, 2008 1:24 PM GMT
    It sounds like you've already figured it out. If you're tempted, just remember that James is part of the package and will be a part of your life is John is a part of your life. Even if James is out of the picture he would still haunt the relationship.

    If you and John become friends, be prepared for James to come after you. He's probably managed to isolate John from his friends and won't welcome someone new who might encourage him to leave James.

    I've gotten in the middle of abusive relationships before and no one wins. Years ago the guy I was dating and I helped his best friend move out when her partner was away. They reconciled a few weeks later and then it was a huge mess for all of us.

    I've also known people who have made it seem like their partners were abusive and would get others to feel sorry for them - when in reality they were the ones cheating and abusing. Some people are very good at playing the victim and getting others to take care of them - they just keep moving from victim to victim.
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    Aug 12, 2008 11:33 PM GMT
    lissenup saidIt sounds like you've already figured it out. If you're tempted, just remember that James is part of the package and will be a part of your life is John is a part of your life. Even if James is out of the picture he would still haunt the relationship.

    If you and John become friends, be prepared for James to come after you. He's probably managed to isolate John from his friends and won't welcome someone new who might encourage him to leave James.

    I've gotten in the middle of abusive relationships before and no one wins. Years ago the guy I was dating and I helped his best friend move out when her partner was away. They reconciled a few weeks later and then it was a huge mess for all of us.

    I've also known people who have made it seem like their partners were abusive and would get others to feel sorry for them - when in reality they were the ones cheating and abusing. Some people are very good at playing the victim and getting others to take care of them - they just keep moving from victim to victim.



    Having seen many a gay drama, and about every straight drama under the sun too for that matter, I'm pretty alert to these things most of the time. I did confirm the abusive relationship with a friend who is an equal friend of both of them. Just told him I had concerns that something was going on there based on things I saw and thought maybe a good friend could shed some light on it, and he did just that. This guy is definitely not playing the victim. In fact he uses the terminology "we beat the shit out of each other". However, it is clear both from personal observations and from the observations of others that have personal knowledge that the evil boy is definitely the abuser, and the good boy is definitely the defender.

    I have no intention of getting in the middle of this. Its not my place. But I will be the supportive friend that does recommend things change. After all, when you change nothing, nothing changes.
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    Aug 13, 2008 1:24 PM GMT
    YngHungSFSD saidI have no intention of getting in the middle of this. Its not my place. But I will be the supportive friend that does recommend things change. After all, when you change nothing, nothing changes.


    You're a good friend. Hopefully he will be able to get out of the abusive situation and you can support him. I've been there and it was hard to get out of the situation, but it was the best thing I ever did for myself.