If it weren't for gay people, gays would have equal rights.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 07, 2012 9:08 AM GMT
    Just a thought...I think the majority of people voting against equal rights are self loathing gays.

    Discuss. icon_biggrin.gif
  • masculumpedes

    Posts: 5549

    Aug 07, 2012 9:09 AM GMT
    It's possible, but what can you do about it? icon_confused.gif
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    Aug 07, 2012 9:11 AM GMT
    Willybear saidIt's possible, but what can you do about it? icon_confused.gif
    For starters, we could start focusing our efforts on the gay community instead of spending our efforts on "converting straights" to understand us.

    Straights don't give a fuck. They want us to be equal. It's the gays that are holding us back.
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    Aug 07, 2012 9:15 AM GMT
    Rick approves

    120208_rick_santorum_roars_ap_328.jpg
  • masculumpedes

    Posts: 5549

    Aug 07, 2012 9:19 AM GMT
    paulflexes said
    Willybear saidIt's possible, but what can you do about it? icon_confused.gif
    For starters, we could start focusing our efforts on the gay community instead of spending our efforts on "converting straights" to understand us.

    Straights don't give a fuck. They want us to be equal. It's the gays that are holding us back.


    Define the "gay community" for me please. icon_wink.gif
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    Aug 07, 2012 9:21 AM GMT
    Willybear said
    paulflexes said
    Willybear saidIt's possible, but what can you do about it? icon_confused.gif
    For starters, we could start focusing our efforts on the gay community instead of spending our efforts on "converting straights" to understand us.

    Straights don't give a fuck. They want us to be equal. It's the gays that are holding us back.


    Define the "gay community" for me please. icon_wink.gif
    The people who sleep with each other then bitch at each other for sleeping with the other others.
  • masculumpedes

    Posts: 5549

    Aug 07, 2012 9:24 AM GMT
    paulflexes said
    Willybear said
    paulflexes said
    Willybear saidIt's possible, but what can you do about it? icon_confused.gif
    For starters, we could start focusing our efforts on the gay community instead of spending our efforts on "converting straights" to understand us.

    Straights don't give a fuck. They want us to be equal. It's the gays that are holding us back.


    Define the "gay community" for me please. icon_wink.gif
    The people who sleep with each other then bitch at each other for sleeping with the other others.


    LOL, I think you have it. Haven't you noticed the difference between a group of men and a group of women? When you get a group of men together, they pick one person to be the leader and the rest tend to follow his ideas. When you get a group of women together, they all want to be the leader and pull in different directions. The gay community is like a group of women. icon_lol.gif
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    Aug 07, 2012 9:27 AM GMT
    Willybear said
    paulflexes said
    Willybear said
    paulflexes said
    Willybear saidIt's possible, but what can you do about it? icon_confused.gif
    For starters, we could start focusing our efforts on the gay community instead of spending our efforts on "converting straights" to understand us.

    Straights don't give a fuck. They want us to be equal. It's the gays that are holding us back.


    Define the "gay community" for me please. icon_wink.gif
    The people who sleep with each other then bitch at each other for sleeping with the other others.


    LOL, I think you have it. Haven't you noticed the difference between a group of men and a group of women? When you get a group of men together, they pick one person to be the leader and the rest tend to follow his ideas. When you get a group of women together, they all want to be the leader and pull in different directions. The gay community is like a group of women. icon_lol.gif
    At least gays can drive.
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    Aug 07, 2012 10:41 AM GMT
    I don't think it's "the majority" - Religious, fat and/or ugly straight men and women, stuck in miserable marriages, get all hot and bothered knowing gays want noting to do with the kind of life they lead.

    But yea, I'm sure there's plenty of self loathing gays that live a lie and fuck up their own sanity.
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    Aug 07, 2012 12:49 PM GMT
    BP201 saidI don't think it's "the majority" - Religious, fat and/or ugly straight men and women, stuck in miserable marriages, get all hot and bothered knowing gays want nothing to do with the kind of life they lead.

    But yea, I'm sure there's plenty of self loathing gays that live a lie and fuck up their own sanity.


    Probably true, because who needs a tax break via marriage when porn pays a whole lot more.
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    Aug 07, 2012 1:59 PM GMT
    If by "self loathing gays" you mean gays that don't ALWAYS go along with the "gay think tank" or don't agree with it... then yes.

    The problem is that the "gay think tank" puts out an idea... and then EVERYONE jumps on the band wagon regardless of where or whom it comes from. The classic case was the Chick-Fil-A ordeal.. 2 issues.. one was about a man standing up and saying he don't support gays.. and the other issue was about the fact the company was giving money to "hate" groups.

    The spotlight was put on the fact that a man said he don't support gays.. which in all seriousness he is allowed to do! BUT gays will attack anyone that stands up and says the gay community is acting ridiculous over that. They're a "self loathing gay".....

    I feel you need SOMONE in the group to not always 100% agree to keep the group on track and call it out when it gets off track! But I know.. even me writing this.. someone is gonna come along.. read it.. and then start in with either were I grew up.. my education level.. my age...etc. They'll find something to attack and rip me a new one.


    In summary.. I just feel that labeling someone "self loathing gay" because they may not go or agree with everyone else in the gay community is radical. Don't get me wrong.. there are closeted people that really fight against their own cause.. but they're not NEARLY enough to single handedly break down "gay rights" progression.
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    Aug 07, 2012 2:25 PM GMT
    There has never been a time in the entire history of the American republic when gays and lesbians have had it better than right now.

    The tide has turned, Paul.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Aug 07, 2012 2:25 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidJust a thought...I think the majority of people voting against equal rights are self loathing gays.
    />



    I absolutely 100% disagree with this statement. It's completely delusional to suggest that there are enough in the straight community that support gay rights, and that if only those alleged "self loathing gays" would climb onboard all would be fine. The truer statement is your thread title:

    "If it weren't for gay people, gays would have equal rights"

    I really believe that part of the problem here are the militant activist-type gays who think they are somehow doing the greater gay community a favor with their antics. I think a glaring example of this being true is the recent CHICK-FIL-A brouhaha, in which gays freaking out over a private citizen or company's public stated opinion only succeeded in waking a sleeping giant and mobilizing the masses. They turned out in droves at the "Chick-Fil-A Appreciation Day", not necessarily to rally against gay people, but rather to show support for traditional marriage and, more importantly, free speech. This was a great big slap in the face to the gay community, one that they brought on themselves by the "My Way Or The Highway" reaction to the CEO of the company's statements. We need to find a more effective and smarter approach to making our point, because ramming it down the throats of the general public is going to be met with far more resistance then we might find otherwise --- just my 2 cents.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Aug 07, 2012 2:35 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    paulflexes saidJust a thought...I think the majority of people voting against equal rights are self loathing gays.
    />



    I absolutely 100% disagree with this statement. It's completely delusional to suggest that there are enough in the straight community that support gay rights, and that if only those alleged "self loathing gays" would climb onboard all would be fine. The truer statement is your thread title:

    "If it weren't for gay people, gays would have equal rights"

    I really believe that part of the problem here are the militant activist-type gays who think they are somehow doing the greater gay community a favor with their antics. I think a glaring example of this being true is the recent CHICK-FIL-A brouhaha, in which gays freaking out over a private citizen or company's public stated opinion only succeeded in waking a sleeping giant and mobilizing the masses. They turned out in droves at the "Chick-Fil-A Appreciation Day", not necessarily to rally against gay people, but rather to show support for traditional marriage and, more importantly, free speech. This was a great big slap in the face to the gay community, one that they brought on themselves by the "My Way Or The Highway" reaction to the CEO of the company's statements.


    You are such a coward! You are ALWAYS siding with hate mongers. You support their freedom of speach, yet you advocate for gays to shut the fuck up and not stand up to discrimination. You and your friend JackBlair69 should go to a Chick-Fil-A together and offer to clean their toilets for free, because you LOVE taking their shit!!! Seriously, why don't you just go back in the closet, you traitorous fuckwad?
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Aug 07, 2012 2:47 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    You are such a coward! You are ALWAYS siding with hate mongers. You support their freedom of speach, yet you advocate for gays to shut the fuck up and not stand up to discrimination. You and your friend JackBlair69 should go to a Chick-Fil-A together and offer to clean their toilets for free, because you LOVE taking their shit!!! Seriously, why don't you just go back in the closet, you traitorous fuckwad?



    HA! Man, that sure didn't take long. Thank you for making my point so perfectly. As the poster above me (DtotheS84) also made...
    DtotheS84 saidIf by "self loathing gays" you mean gays that don't ALWAYS go along with the "gay think tank" or don't agree with it.......But I know.. even me writing this.. someone is gonna come along.. read it.. and then start in with either were I grew up.. my education level.. my age...etc. They'll find something to attack and rip me a new one.....I just feel that labeling someone "self loathing gay" because they may not go or agree with everyone else in the gay community is radical.

    You make my point just beautifully, HottJoe. God forbid some gays might have a different opinion...an idea or suggestion that a better approach is needed to get what we want. To offer another point of view --- a diversion from "The Gay Think Tank" --- just kicks narrow-minded types like yourself into ATTACK MODE. Where anywhere in my post did I side with hate mongers? Where did I say gays should "shut the fuck up and not stand up to discrimination"? I didn't. Get your facts straight. Calling me or anyone else a "traitorous fuckwad" because we dare suggest that a better, smarter approach may be needed only further illuminates YOU and others like YOU as part of the problem. Thank you again for illustrating the appropriateness of this thread title...

    "If it weren't for gay people, gays would have equal rights"
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2605

    Aug 07, 2012 3:01 PM GMT
    It`s the eternal problem for all minorites/oppressed peoples: how to achieve equality, especially when they live in a democracy. After all that`s been done and said, I don`t think there`s an established answer to this conundrum. The debate continues....I think the argument on equal rights is advancing in countries like the UK and US, albeit slowly.

    Gay men don`t have the basic numbers, so argument and example are crucial here. Being open about your sexuality with straights is a small step forward. It prevents them ignoring us.

    I sometimes think women have made less progress than they might have precisely because they are so reasonable: they always do (or volunteer to take on) the vast majority of domestic caring. This will always hamper them in the public sphere, for example work/careers, relative to men. And men know this and, consciously or unconsciously, they are relieved of their share of these duties. Thus the unequal status quo persists.....A more aggressive approach might have shaken things up more quickly. And unlike gay men, women do have sheer numbers on their side.

    I have a fear the authorities in any country have a tendency to take people for granted if they are too reasonable. It`s very noticeable here the generosity with which guys sign up to serve their country in the military, yet when they`re disabled/injured and need help, the government turns all hard headed, legalistic, and contractual, etc. The very fact that they hate 'militancy' so much leads me to think it`s a method we should employ. Here 'militancy' may mean an attitude of mind and relentless campaigning rather than any shocking tactics per se.

    My thinking with gay men is both methods are needed; the militant and the mainstream. You need the former to really push things along and energize the campaign with new ideas, etc.; and the latter to 'occupy' the new ground and make it safe and routine for us all; and prevent any retrenchment.

  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Aug 07, 2012 3:03 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    HottJoe said
    You are such a coward! You are ALWAYS siding with hate mongers. You support their freedom of speach, yet you advocate for gays to shut the fuck up and not stand up to discrimination. You and your friend JackBlair69 should go to a Chick-Fil-A together and offer to clean their toilets for free, because you LOVE taking their shit!!! Seriously, why don't you just go back in the closet, you traitorous fuckwad?



    HA! Man, that sure didn't take long. Thank you for making my point so perfectly. As the poster above me (DtotheS84) also made...
    DtotheS84 saidIf by "self loathing gays" you mean gays that don't ALWAYS go along with the "gay think tank" or don't agree with it.......But I know.. even me writing this.. someone is gonna come along.. read it.. and then start in with either were I grew up.. my education level.. my age...etc. They'll find something to attack and rip me a new one.....I just feel that labeling someone "self loathing gay" because they may not go or agree with everyone else in the gay community is radical.

    You make my point just beautifully, HottJoe. God forbid some gays might have a different opinion...an idea or suggestion that a better approach is needed to get what we want. To offer another point of view --- a diversion from "The Gay Think Tank" --- just kicks narrow-minded types like yourself into ATTACK MODE. Where anywhere in my post did I side with hate mongers? Where did I say gays should "shut the fuck up and not stand up to discrimination"? I didn't. Get your facts straight. Calling me or anyone else a "traitorous fuckwad" because we dare suggest that a better, smarter approach may be needed only further illuminates YOU and others like YOU as part of the problem. Thank you again for illustrating the appropriateness of this thread title...

    "If it weren't for gay people, gays would have equal rights"


    You've never proposed a better or smarter approach. You side with the anti gay movement all the time. You keep saying you have a "different opinion," but I've never heard your opinion. I've only heard you parrot the far right and say that liberal gays are part of the problem. You're just a wolf in sheep's clothing.
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    Aug 07, 2012 3:04 PM GMT
    I agreed.

    Blacks did not get full legal rights by changing the definition of white . Anti gay and anti Gay" marriage" are two different issues. Most gay folk are in denial about that. Anti gay is a small minority . If gay folk would man up and create a same sex civil union legal contract affording them full rights and leave straight marriage alone this issue would have been settled a long time ago.

    Its really OK to acknowledge that we are different than heterosexuals. And our civil unions should reflect that.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Aug 07, 2012 3:06 PM GMT
    Alpha13 saidI agreed.

    Blacks did not get full legal rights by changing the definition of white . Anti gay and anti Gay" marriage" are two different issues. Most gay folk are in denial about that. Anti gay is a small minority . If gay folk would man up and create a same sex civil union legal contract affording them full rights and leave straight marriage alone this issue would have been settled a long time ago.

    It really OK to acknowledge that we are different than heterosexuals. And our civil unions should reflect that.


    THANK YOU!!! +10 However, I disagree with you on this...
    Alpha13 saidAnti gay and anti Gay" marriage" are two different issues. Most gay folk are in denial about that.

    I don't think that MOST gay folk are in denial about this, just the LOUD activist-minded ones who think their "My Way Or The Highway" mentality is doing the gay community any favors --- Newsflash: They are NOT! Their efforts, while maybe well-intentioned, are doing just as much to build resistance to the gay community as anything.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Aug 07, 2012 3:20 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    You've never proposed a better or smarter approach.

    I don't think I ever claimed to have ALL the answers...because I don't. I do know when I see something is just simply a BAD IDEA, one that will not be effective in gaining us some positive ground --- two examples: "Kiss Ins" at local CHICK-FIL-A restaurants, and gays vandalizing the Mormon Temple and blocking traffic in Los Angeles after the Prop 8 Vote. Shooting one's self in the foot to somehow make a point is NOT a good strategy.

    HottJoe saidYou side with the anti gay movement all the time..

    Once again, GET YOUR FACTS straight. Having a different opinion does NOT mean one is "siding with the anti-gay movement" no matter how many times you want to say it.

    HottJoe saidYou keep saying you have a "different opinion," but I've never heard your opinion.

    Really?!? Have you not seen my post count icon_rolleyes.gifGranted, my opinion isn't always winning any popularity contests around here -- at least not among the LOUD & PROUD LIBERAL HEN CROWD -- but that's just fine with me. I express a point of view that is far more prevalent within the gay community than many of you may care to believe.
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    Aug 07, 2012 3:21 PM GMT
    Paul you said it yourself that the southern part of this country is very hostile towards gays. How can you really think that the "self loathing" gays are holding the gay community back when so many more straight people openly and vehemently oppose homosexuality? Unfortunately some gays do oppose equal rights for gays, as fucked up as that sounds buut, they are a miniscule minority with in a minority. You need to lay off the bottle dude, either that, or share icon_razz.gif
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    Aug 07, 2012 3:32 PM GMT
    I don't think self loathing gays vote against it but I do think gays make it harder for themselves.

    Our culture embraces partying, clubs and sex. Not all of us participate in those functions but the culture does provoke that stigma. I was at a pool party the other day and the guys started getting naked, there was a little kid present, even I felt uncomfortable so I left. I feel that the community itself does PR damage by the way many choose to live, making it harder for the rest of us that don't participate.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Aug 07, 2012 3:34 PM GMT
    msuNtx saidI don't think self loathing gays vote against it but I do think gays make it harder for themselves.

    Our culture embraces partying, clubs and sex. Not all of us participate in those functions but the culture does provoke that stigma. I was at a pool party the other day and the guys started getting naked, there was a little kid present, even I felt uncomfortable so I left. I feel that the community itself does PR damage by the way many choose to live, making it harder for the rest of us that don't participate.



    I have always said that until the gay community fixes what amounts to a basic "PR Problem", the fight for equal rights will be a long and tough uphill climb.
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    Aug 07, 2012 4:34 PM GMT
    I don't promote getting naked in front of kids, but this is something I've seen many straight folks do as well. For them it's about kids recognizing that the human body is beautiful and nothing to be ashamed of. If they were additionally behaving lewdly then I can understand the problem.

    I've also been to many straight parties where kids were present while their parents drank to excess and/or used drugs. The icing on the cake of course is that they then try to drive home with their kids.

    You can't turn on reality TV these days without tons of examples of bad behavior on the part of the straight community.

    It is not fair to tell the gay community they are not allowed to make the same mistakes that the straight community makes. There is no way you are going to be able to control that segment of the population that makes bad decisions whether they are heterosexual or homosexual.

    These kinds of observations from the straight community are diversions. They want to make the gay community the scapegoat for everything bad in this country.

    If you could wave a wand and make all LGBT individuals behave like good gay conservative Christians, the straight community would simply find another issue to pick on. They would say that our "secret agenda" is carried out in basements. That we are secretly molesting their children.

    Don't give in to this smokescreen issue. I would love it if everyone behaved the way I wanted them to, but that's just not going to happen.

    msuNtx saidI don't think self loathing gays vote against it but I do think gays make it harder for themselves.

    Our culture embraces partying, clubs and sex. Not all of us participate in those functions but the culture does provoke that stigma. I was at a pool party the other day and the guys started getting naked, there was a little kid present, even I felt uncomfortable so I left. I feel that the community itself does PR damage by the way many choose to live, making it harder for the rest of us that don't participate.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Aug 07, 2012 4:38 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidJust a thought...I think the majority of people voting against equal rights are self loathing gays.

    Discuss. icon_biggrin.gif


    LOL ... you make a very good point icon_biggrin.gif

    all you need to do is search on 'outed republicans'