Did Jesus Say People are Born Gay?

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    Aug 08, 2012 3:21 AM GMT
    Matthew 19: 10-12

    "10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

    11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”"

    ..... I don't want to put my analysis on the verses here and risk influencing anyone's interpretation, but does anyone else see what I see? This could go really deep on a lot of different levels..

    And if so, why isn't this a bigger deal?
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    Aug 08, 2012 3:22 AM GMT
    Meh, I don't read into the Bible. It's a bunch of bullshit as far as I'm concerned.
  • AMoonHawk

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    Aug 08, 2012 3:47 AM GMT
    Yes that was what he was saying ... gay people have been around since the dawn of time ... only in our generational era has there been such out right hate that began with Hitler and has continued to this day..
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    Aug 08, 2012 3:57 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidYes that was what he was saying ... gay people have been around since the dawn of time ... only in our generational era has there been such out right hate that began with Hitler and has continued to this day..


    Whaaat? Dude Hitler didn't start homophobia.

    Homosexuality was common practice in Rome, before Christianity, but was condemned once Christianity was adopted as the Roman Empire's official religion. The Catholic Church is guiltier than Hitler.

    Anyway, I'm watching the Olympics... USA USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Aug 08, 2012 4:00 AM GMT
    Who cares? It was written by a bunch of old men 2000 years ago who couldn't figure out indoor plumbing. But they know what happens in the afterlife?
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    Aug 08, 2012 4:01 AM GMT
    garion saidMatthew 19: 10-12

    "10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

    11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”"

    ..... I don't want to put my analysis on the verses here and risk influencing anyone's interpretation, but does anyone else see what I see? This could go really deep on a lot of different levels..

    And if so, why isn't this a bigger deal?
    If he's saying that eunuch=gay, then he's also saying people can be turned gay.

    But all I really know about Jesus is that he was nice at the counter today when I paid for my food at Hometown Buffet.
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    Aug 08, 2012 4:04 AM GMT
    Aren't eunuchs castrated men?

    Since when are we castrated, gentlemen?
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    Aug 08, 2012 4:05 AM GMT
    meanwhile, back in context...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_of_Jesus
    "Divorce and eunuchs

    In the Gospel of Matthew 19:3-12 Jesus condemns divorce (though an exception is given in cases of adultery), quoting Genesis 1:27 and 2:24, and explains himself with these words:

    "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery. The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry. Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it. (NIV) "

    Jesus' praise for those who have made themselves eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven has, for many centuries, been interpreted by Christian theologians as a metaphor for celibacy, since the term "eunuch" normally referred to a castrated man.[1] Some Christians (including, according to a few sources, Origen) went farther than this by interpreting Jesus' words literally and hence physically castrating themselves as an act of devotion.[2] The early Church Father Tertullian, who wrote that Jesus himself lived as a eunuch,[3] likewise encouraged people to adopt this practice.[4]
    "
  • disasterpiece

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    Aug 08, 2012 4:19 AM GMT
    552056_503269509702507_2006242783_n.jpeg
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    Aug 08, 2012 4:20 AM GMT
    The bible is a story book that many men wrote various chapter for over several hundred years.....and has been translated into various languages with the rich and powerful having it rewritten and reordered with new or existing chapters....as they wished and paid for....
    A perfect and all knowing God knows about gays.....we are not mistakes or surprises, but a known part of the plan.... unless someone wants to admit that god made mistakes and isn't all knowing or powerful.....icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Aug 08, 2012 4:22 AM GMT
    Disasterpiece said552056_503269509702507_2006242783_n.jpeg


    darn figs
  • AMoonHawk

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    Aug 08, 2012 4:38 AM GMT
    SSJTrunks said
    AMoonHawk saidYes that was what he was saying ... gay people have been around since the dawn of time ... only in our generational era has there been such out right hate that began with Hitler and has continued to this day..


    Whaaat? Dude Hitler didn't start homophobia.

    Homosexuality was common practice in Rome, before Christianity, but was condemned once Christianity was adopted as the Roman Empire's official religion. The Catholic Church is guiltier than Hitler.

    Anyway, I'm watching the Olympics... USA USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The catholic church burned witches ... it didn't burn queers ... Hitler did burn and gas the queers

    opps ... my bad .. I just looked it up ... the catholics didn't burn witches . . I thnk that was the Christian Puritans .. a sect of Protestants
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    Aug 08, 2012 4:43 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk said
    SSJTrunks said
    AMoonHawk saidYes that was what he was saying ... gay people have been around since the dawn of time ... only in our generational era has there been such out right hate that began with Hitler and has continued to this day..


    Whaaat? Dude Hitler didn't start homophobia.

    Homosexuality was common practice in Rome, before Christianity, but was condemned once Christianity was adopted as the Roman Empire's official religion. The Catholic Church is guiltier than Hitler.

    Anyway, I'm watching the Olympics... USA USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The catholic church burned witches ... it didn't burn queers ... Hitler did burn and gas the queers

    opps ... my bad .. I just looked it up ... the catholics didn't burn witches . . I thnk that was the Christian Puritans .. a sect of Protestants

    Wikipedia is your friend.

    By the end of the 4th century, passive homosexual acts under the Christian Empire were punishable by burning.[194] "Death by sword" was the punishment for a "man coupling like a woman" under the Theodosian Code.[195] It can be argued, however, that legislation under Christian rule was an extension of traditional Roman views on appropriate gender roles, and not an abrupt shift based Christian theology. It is in the 6th century, under Justinian, that legal and moral discourse on homosexuality becomes distinctly Christian:[196] all same-sex acts, passive or active, no matter who the partners, were declared contrary to nature and punishable by death.[197] Homosexual behaviors were pointed to as causes for God's wrath following a series of disasters around 542 and 559.[198]
  • AMoonHawk

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    Aug 08, 2012 4:49 AM GMT
    IceBucket saidAren't eunuchs castrated men?

    Since when are we castrated, gentlemen?


    No, Jesus said that some men were born eunuchs ... what is a eunuch ... a eunuch is a man that cannot sire ... queers don't have sex with women, so they cannot sire, so basically it was a man that had sex wtih men .. back in those days boys were made eunuchs and used just like females for sex. They where also used to guards the kings harem because they could be trusted not to have sex with women (so they thought). If you are born a eunuch then that would be that by some nature of birth you would likely be having sex with men
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Aug 08, 2012 4:58 AM GMT
    IceBucket said
    AMoonHawk said
    SSJTrunks said
    AMoonHawk saidYes that was what he was saying ... gay people have been around since the dawn of time ... only in our generational era has there been such out right hate that began with Hitler and has continued to this day..


    Whaaat? Dude Hitler didn't start homophobia.

    Homosexuality was common practice in Rome, before Christianity, but was condemned once Christianity was adopted as the Roman Empire's official religion. The Catholic Church is guiltier than Hitler.

    Anyway, I'm watching the Olympics... USA USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The catholic church burned witches ... it didn't burn queers ... Hitler did burn and gas the queers

    opps ... my bad .. I just looked it up ... the catholics didn't burn witches . . I thnk that was the Christian Puritans .. a sect of Protestants

    Wikipedia is your friend.

    By the end of the 4th century, passive homosexual acts under the Christian Empire were punishable by burning.[194] "Death by sword" was the punishment for a "man coupling like a woman" under the Theodosian Code.[195] It can be argued, however, that legislation under Christian rule was an extension of traditional Roman views on appropriate gender roles, and not an abrupt shift based Christian theology. It is in the 6th century, under Justinian, that legal and moral discourse on homosexuality becomes distinctly Christian:[196] all same-sex acts, passive or active, no matter who the partners, were declared contrary to nature and punishable by death.[197] Homosexual behaviors were pointed to as causes for God's wrath following a series of disasters around 542 and 559.[198]


    Christian is a general term .. there were a lot of Christian sects through out history, including the Knights Templar (Rosicurians), who are the now the Masons. I do not believe the Catholics raised the sword as it was against their religion to kill. However they did enlist the Knights Templar do their fighting. The Rosicurians however did raise their swords and slaughtered God knows how many people. But really who cares that was well over a thousand years ago.
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    Aug 08, 2012 5:06 AM GMT
    Disasterpiece said552056_503269509702507_2006242783_n.jpeg


    tumblr_m86r1dat3i1rq9bvgo2_500.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 08, 2012 6:13 AM GMT
    Disasterpiece said552056_503269509702507_2006242783_n.jpeg
    win
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    Aug 08, 2012 10:27 PM GMT
    IceBucket saidAren't eunuchs castrated men?

    Since when are we castrated, gentlemen?


    Yes, and no. A castrated man is a TYPE of eunuch. For instance, an Asian is a type of human, but not all humans are Asian, right? Same goes for eunuchs.

    Eunuchs were typically castrated men, but they were also known as effeminate/gay men. Queens often had eunuchs as their male servants. Why? For protection..so they wouldn't get raped.

    If you reread the passage, IMO it's clear Jesus is talking about the different types of eunuchs. Made that way by men is a clear reference to castration. But born that way? How many men have you known to be born without balls? It's clear he's talking about a different type of eunuch...the gay male.
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    Aug 08, 2012 11:22 PM GMT
    paulflexes said
    Disasterpiece said552056_503269509702507_2006242783_n.jpeg
    win
    Ditto!