Could you be close friends with an 'Archie Bunker'?

  • metta

    Posts: 39089

    Aug 09, 2012 5:51 AM GMT

  • metta

    Posts: 39089

    Aug 09, 2012 3:07 PM GMT
    I don't know if I could....if I was able to manage to be friends with someone like that then I think that, for me, it would be a very difficult friendship at best.
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    Aug 09, 2012 3:27 PM GMT
    There are a lot of modern-day AB's around. Many try so hard to hide it and it's just funny sometimes. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Aug 09, 2012 3:28 PM GMT
    I love archie!

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    Aug 09, 2012 3:29 PM GMT
    No.
  • Latenight30

    Posts: 1525

    Aug 09, 2012 4:40 PM GMT
    You are known by the company you keep. So, unless you are prepared to defend them, be cautious who you choose as a friend.
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    Aug 09, 2012 4:45 PM GMT
    Hell yes!
  • DanOmatic

    Posts: 1155

    Aug 09, 2012 5:05 PM GMT
    My dad was like Archie Bunker, but angrier and even more negative.

    At a very tender age, when most boys idolize their fathers, I put a mental box around mine and told myself every day that I would never be like him and also reminded myself that he would never ever be able to provide what I needed emotionally.

    It worked! My dad is still angry and miserable, and I have a great life-- particularly because I rejected all of his negativitiy. I'm glad I had the wherewithall to call bullshit when I saw it, even at an early age.

    No, having experienced that every day of my childhood, I would not willingly seek out friendships with anyone like that.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Aug 09, 2012 5:43 PM GMT
    I enjoyed Archie Bunker for the "character" he was in a comedy TV show, but a modern day Archie Bunker in my real life is probably not someone I would want in my circle of close friends.
  • DanOmatic

    Posts: 1155

    Aug 09, 2012 5:43 PM GMT
    Cranky_san said
    DanOmatic said
    It worked! My dad is still angry and miserable, and I have a great life--

    Good for you, because you deserve one.


    Thanks, Cranky--you're always a sweetheart! icon_smile.gif
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    Aug 09, 2012 5:45 PM GMT
    I tend to like people who challenge me, so I'd like to say yes. Of course there is only so much I could handle.

    If George Jefferson could handle Archie Bunker, I can give it a shot, too.
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    Aug 09, 2012 5:46 PM GMT
    Oh, no.

    DanOmatic said
    Cranky_san said
    DanOmatic said
    It worked! My dad is still angry and miserable, and I have a great life--

    Good for you, because you deserve one.


    Thanks, Cranky--you're always a sweetheart! icon_smile.gif


    Don't be too nice to him, it will go to his head.icon_razz.gif
  • Muscles25

    Posts: 394

    Aug 09, 2012 5:47 PM GMT
    metta8 saidI don't know if I could....if I was able to manage to be friends with someone like that then I think that, for me, it would be a very difficult friendship at best.


    And don't forget that there are AB's from all sides of the political spectrum. Could you be friends with a guy guy who calls Asians "rice queens?"

    How about being friends with someone who says something like "I hate all Republicans?"

    Or someone who constantly disparages people he disagrees with as "rednecks" or "hicks" or make funs of people with religious beliefs?

    As gay men, we should remember that bigotry is a lot more than just comments about us, blacks or Jews or other ethnic groups.

    A lot of gay men are very bigoted towards others who don't share their beliefs and we would do well to remember that it's no more right when we do it than when others do it to us.
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    Aug 09, 2012 5:51 PM GMT
    He's no different than George Jefferson except George Jefferson is called funny and Archie Bunker a racist.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 16, 2013 9:58 PM GMT
    No, I don't like Archie Bunker on the show! Verbally abusive and played as a unhappy man, ridiculing others with vulglar comments!! Anyone like him, I stay away from, and feel sorry for those who has to grow up in simlar household! Not a perfect example for a parent to give to their children!
  • metta

    Posts: 39089

    Jan 17, 2013 2:33 AM GMT
    All In The Family was a great show. Several years ago, Norman Lear's CFO lived in my neighborhood and she told me that Normal Lear had tried to bring back what would have been a modern version of an All In The Family type show. But they found that they could not get any network to support it because it was too controversial.
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    Jan 17, 2013 3:59 AM GMT
    Loved the show. Great cast. So much talent. I especially admire Jean Stapleton. Here she is in an interview where you can see how much of the character she created was truly acting. That was not her. That was her work.



    My best bud was also a very good actor and when I'd see him work I could get pulled into the character whereby hadn't I known who he was offstage I'd have thought that character was him. That's acting.

    Here's a series of interviews with Carrol O'Connor, also did such a great job...



    I find myself often when watching All in the Family carefully studying the Edith character. I think that acting is genius.

    In my personal life I've had a few Archie Bunker type characters now and then, sometimes lasting for 10 or 20 years, but the relationships inevitably fell apart. I go into them thinking their characters will develop as did Archie but sometimes they don't.

    The last two to break up included one guy who actually got worse as time went on such that towards the end of our relationship, while driving, if we'd come upon a group of black kids alongside the street at night, he'd shine the brights of his car into their eyes. I freaked out. What the fuck do you think you're doing, I said to him. Then he became further abusive, speeding his car towards an elderly man trying to cross a parking lot to make him move faster. Shit like that. When he became that physically abusive, I ended that relationship as by then there was obviously nothing I could do to help fix him and I couldn't have that in my life.

    I had another guy a few years back, in my life for about 20 years and I always knew he was a bit of a bigot but I didn't truly get the extent until he said one night when typically drunk that he wouldn't have sex with a guy if he knew that guy ever had sex with a black guy. That was my red flag. I couldn't believe what a fucked up thing that was to say. Sorry if it offends, just relating a story. As i started seeing him differently, our relationship went downhill from there. Then he started treating me like shit when he got drunk. I told him the next time I want someone to treat me like shit, I'll give you a call. That was the end of that.

    See, I click people on ignore in real life too.
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    Jan 17, 2013 4:35 AM GMT
    Haven't had time to view the 8 (!) part Carroll O'Connor interview yet so I don't know if this is covered, BUT...

    Everyone's focusing on the loudmouthed bigoted nature of "Archie Bunker" and forgetting that beneath the bluster Archie was nice. For example, we assume Archie was anti-gay but the character kept subtly evolving and developing - watch any "gay" episode, from the one where he assumed that Mike & Gloria's flamboyant art-loving college friend (played by "General Hospital's" Anthony Geary) had to be gay, another episode where he couldn't believe his own macho bar buddy was gay, to the episodes with the cross-dresser character "Beverly LaSalle" (it's even implied that he may have gone to a few of Beverly's drag shows with Edith), and you'll see that he found himself liking them regardless, even begrudgingly accepting flirtations, and being very shaken when one of them was fag-bashed to death. Yes, I could be friends with Archie Bunker without trying to change him because I can see that the character as written and played with pathos was inherently good and capable of change. People are nuanced and complicated. The ones you think aren't bigots could be incredibly intolerant and the ones you think are nice can be anything but. Would I actively seek out someone as trying as Archie Bunker as a close friend? No. But could he become one? Yep.
  • metta

    Posts: 39089

    Jan 17, 2013 9:18 AM GMT
    I really enjoyed listening to those:





    theantijock saidLoved the show. Great cast. So much talent. I especially admire Jean Stapleton. Here she is in an interview where you can see how much of the character she created was truly acting. That was not her. That was her work.



    My best bud was also a very good actor and when I'd see him work I could get pulled into the character whereby hadn't I known who he was offstage I'd have thought that character was him. That's acting.

    Here's a series of interviews with Carrol O'Connor, also did such a great job...



    I find myself often when watching All in the Family carefully studying the Edith character. I think that acting is genius.

    In my personal life I've had a few Archie Bunker type characters now and then, sometimes lasting for 10 or 20 years, but the relationships inevitably fell apart. I go into them thinking their characters will develop as did Archie but sometimes they don't.

    The last two to break up included one guy who actually got worse as time went on such that towards the end of our relationship, while driving, if we'd come upon a group of black kids alongside the street at night, he'd shine the brights of his car into their eyes. I freaked out. What the fuck do you think you're doing, I said to him. Then he became further abusive, speeding his car towards an elderly man trying to cross a parking lot to make him move faster. Shit like that. When he became that physically abusive, I ended that relationship as by then there was obviously nothing I could do to help fix him and I couldn't have that in my life.

    I had another guy a few years back, in my life for about 20 years and I always knew he was a bit of a bigot but I didn't truly get the extent until he said one night when typically drunk that he wouldn't have sex with a guy if he knew that guy ever had sex with a black guy. That was my red flag. I couldn't believe what a fucked up thing that was to say. Sorry if it offends, just relating a story. As i started seeing him differently, our relationship went downhill from there. Then he started treating me like shit when he got drunk. I told him the next time I want someone to treat me like shit, I'll give you a call. That was the end of that.

    See, I click people on ignore in real life too.
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    Jan 17, 2013 9:37 AM GMT
    theantijock saidLoved the show. Great cast. So much talent. I especially admire Jean Stapleton.

    My best bud was also a very good actor and when I'd see him work I could get pulled into the character whereby hadn't I known who he was offstage I'd have thought that character was him. That's acting.

    I find myself often when watching All in the Family carefully studying the Edith character. I think that acting is genius.

    In my personal life I've had a few Archie Bunker type characters now and then, sometimes lasting for 10 or 20 years, but the relationships inevitably fell apart. I go into them thinking their characters will develop as did Archie but sometimes they don't.

    The last two to break up included one guy who actually got worse as time went on such that towards the end of our relationship, while driving, if we'd come upon a group of black kids alongside the street at night, he'd shine the brights of his car into their eyes. I freaked out. What the fuck do you think you're doing, I said to him. Then he became further abusive, speeding his car towards an elderly man trying to cross a parking lot to make him move faster. Shit like that. When he became that physically abusive, I ended that relationship as by then there was obviously nothing I could do to help fix him and I couldn't have that in my life.

    I had another guy a few years back, in my life for about 20 years and I always knew he was a bit of a bigot but I didn't truly get the extent until he said one night when typically drunk that he wouldn't have sex with a guy if he knew that guy ever had sex with a black guy. That was my red flag. I couldn't believe what a fucked up thing that was to say. Sorry if it offends, just relating a story. As i started seeing him differently, our relationship went downhill from there. Then he started treating me like shit when he got drunk. I told him the next time I want someone to treat me like shit, I'll give you a call. That was the end of that.

    See, I click people on ignore in real life too.




    Thank you for sharing. icon_smile.gif

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 17, 2013 9:43 AM GMT
    I'm sorry, have you been to the south?

    If you want to have friends you have to tolerate these types of views. Racism through humor is extremely popular.

    What is not popular is the hatred type of racism. I cannot be friends with someone to blatantly racist (think KKK level racism).

    The problem is that from a psychological standpoint, the people who commit microagressions (like saying jap/chink) create more suspicion and stress for non-whites than the overly racist people do. You can at least know immediately the latter is racist, with the former you have to figure out if you're being played and wasting your time talking to them (job interview, loan officer, landlords etc.,)
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    Jan 17, 2013 4:56 PM GMT
    credo saidThank you for sharing. icon_smile.gif



    You're welcome man. I appreciate the comment. I find your stuff to be real too.

    One of the things that strikes me odd--that I have trouble wrapping my brain around--about these bigoted guys who I befriended was that their bigotry seemed incongruent with their intelligence.

    The first guy I actually befriended because I found him to be so smart. I'd heard some conversation behind me in a bar and this one guy was just very clever. I turned to see who it was, nobody who turned me on--when I was younger that was my biggest concern--but there was just something about him that I found fascinating.

    And that humor is true of both the guys I described. Both of them could be extremely funny, excellent skills of observation and expression and timing.

    And that first guy, though his humor was often cutting, he could be just the most charming of guys you'd ever meet. And so I was fooled in a way, or I fooled myself thinking that someone that smart would eventually get it. That they would be smart enough to figure out that they're no better than anyone else.

    So then thinking about that now, is bigotry yet another biproduct of some ego issue, independent of intelligence? How can people be so smart, yet be so cruel?
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    Jan 17, 2013 4:58 PM GMT
    metta8 saidI don't know if I could....if I was able to manage to be friends with someone like that then I think that, for me, it would be a very difficult friendship at best.



    I would think of him as a character I could have a beer with. I would think of Michael Stivic the same way. Both have extreme views.
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    Jan 17, 2013 5:02 PM GMT
    My Father's father was born in 1899 and was an Archie Bunker. Incredibly intelligent and determined, but selfish and cruel. I saw him once after I was 13 because I disliked him so much