Once on testosterone replacement, you're on it for the rest of your life?

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    Aug 12, 2012 12:26 AM GMT
    I heard this. Is it true? If so, why?

    Forgot to say it is for low T and andropause.
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    Aug 12, 2012 12:29 AM GMT
    I believe, that yes once you are on a testosterone supplement for an extended period of time your body no longer thinks that it has to continue producing it, so you would have to continue to take it.

    Testosterone boosters that encourage your body to produce more testosterone don't have this effect (I don't think...)
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    Aug 12, 2012 12:36 AM GMT
    This would be a question for a doctor. I think the answer depends on why you are taking the replacement therapy. If it's for a legitimate reason, then most likely you are going to have that condition for the rest of your life.

    Your body will stop producing testosterone if you are supplementing it artificially. Perhaps if you are on it long enough, your body will stop being able to produce enough of the hormone naturally. However, I'm not sure it's that straight forward.
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    Aug 12, 2012 12:47 AM GMT
    Everything you ever wanted to know about testosterone replacement can be found in this book

    Testosterone for LIfe by Abraham Morgentaler

    Also search JAMA and PubMed
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    Aug 12, 2012 2:17 AM GMT
    1)Your cells get used to the amount they receive so they will require a higher amount to absorb the same dose.
    2) a signal will be sent to the brain to produce less testosterone and your body will produce less.

    Unless the person is producing low amounts of testosterone in which the body might start to produce more testosterone when they get off the testosterone booster. Depends on the person, their diet, age, and exercise.
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    Aug 12, 2012 3:29 AM GMT
    The other factor is that your doctor should also prescribe Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) hormone, if you are under Testosterone treatment. It needs to be injected as well.

    HCG will trick your pituitary gland not to slow down and release Luteinizing Hormone (LH) which signal the testes to produce testosterone (balls) to shut down,and then your balls start shrinking. Some body builders do not do this step and this is why you hear of their balls shrinking.
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    Aug 12, 2012 5:38 AM GMT
    uombroca saidThe other factor is that your doctor should also prescribe Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) hormone, if you are under Testosterone treatment. It needs to be injected as well.

    HCG will trick your pituitary gland not to slow down and release Luteinizing Hormone (LH) which signal the testes to produce testosterone (balls) to shut down,and then your balls start shrinking. Some body builders do not do this step and this is why you hear of their balls shrinking.


    Some in the thread say having to take T for life once you start is from the T replacement tricking the body to not produce testosterone anymore. Is it that your body will not be addicted for life to testosterone replacement if simultaneously taking HCG? Or at least taking it for life is not going to be for this reason. For example, it was said in the thread that if you have low T and need to take testosterone, you'll take it for life because you need it, as the body in this case (low T) isn't naturally producing more testosterone by itself, plus the body produces less and less testosterone each year.
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    Aug 12, 2012 5:47 AM GMT
    I also hear from the few doctors that specifically work with male hormonal imbalances,low T and andropause that the parameters of what is in normal range in tests is not accurate for testosterone. In short, that the low of normal range should be much, much higher. How high? I heard it should the upper third of what normal range it considered in the average blood test. Does anyone know?

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    Aug 12, 2012 6:03 AM GMT
    I would have to say yes, but would check with your doctor. Testosterone + HCG = To prevent testicular shrinkage; otherwise if you are just in Testosterone regimen your pituitary gland will know that your levels are high because it will detect that and start advising your testes to shut down.

    The endocrine system is complex, so my suggestion is that you get a specialist. Also, you need to be checked for Estrogen levels as well - yes men do produce Estrogen via Testosterone as well. In view that if you are low in T, you will increase your Estrogen level which is not good in men as well since it increases your risk of heart attack and artery disease. If this is the case, you also need to be on some Estrogen medication to bring your levels to normal.

    Therefore ask your doctor to also check your Pregenolone, Estradiol, and DHEA levels.
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    Aug 12, 2012 7:02 AM GMT
    There are many reasons for low testosterone. In my case, i have a high level of prolactin originally thought to be caused by a tumor which grows next to the pituitary gland called prolactinoma. But that turned out false. So urology can't figure out why the high level and neither can endocrinology. Regardless, since my balls are not getting the right signal from the pituitary gland, I'm gonna have to take Testim, Axiron or Androgel for the rest of my life. But I don't really give a shit, its just another thing to do in the morning.

    Short answer, if you're testicles are not able to at least produce a number above around 270, for a million reasons, yeah ....ur gonna be putting Testim on your shoulders. But dude, I've never felt better or been as lean, or had as hard a .....either.

    But urology assured me, since I definitely asked, that there are a small number of guys who have taken supplementation, gotten their numbers up to above 400, gone off, and somehow stayed above 270,,,,the bottom of the range.
  • Vaughn

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    Aug 12, 2012 9:50 AM GMT
    Gym_bull said1)Your cells get used to the amount they receive so they will require a higher amount to absorb the same dose.
    2) a signal will be sent to the brain to produce less testosterone and your body will produce less.

    Unless the person is producing low amounts of testosterone in which the body might start to produce more testosterone when they get off the testosterone booster. Depends on the person, their diet, age, and exercise.


    Your biochemistry will adapt to it creating more demand for testosterone resulting in increased production. You can induce this by using weak estrogens. I belive Clomid is one such drug.

    Hypoandrogenisis is men under 40 is rare and treating it is a fuzzy topic. Iti likely to take an extened period of time and involve trial and error.
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    Aug 12, 2012 10:06 AM GMT
    Dude, have you considered making an appointment with a quality urologist and like, maybe....asking him or her these questions? Medical advice on Real Jock is sort of like.....a joke. Already there is a lot of crap information on this thread. I actually go to a urology department at a incredibly highly regarded university hospital, and am actually being treated. Some of the information on here is completely bogus.

    Here is the worst: taking Testim (for example) encourages your gonads to produce MORE testosterone. Huh...really? It absolutely does not do that. Also any time someone refers to "your biochemistry" you know its bad information. That is akin to speaking about "the entire engine" when you are really speaking about one specific fuel injector. Any time someone paints anything medical in broad strokes, hit the trial. Because everything is very very specific.

    (If this need for information is for you.....) Do you even know your own test number? and if so, what is it? But if you just want to have a discussion, then go to the Mayo Clinic data base. Personally I can't look anymore because circus clowns scare me.

    And for God's sakes, don't screw with your hormones on your own, such as taking Clomid. Leave clomid for those idiots coming off cycle, or a proper prescription.
  • Vaughn

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    Aug 12, 2012 10:23 AM GMT
    bigsky saidDude, have you considered making an appointment with a quality urologist and like, maybe....asking him or her these questions? Medical advice on Real Jock is sort of like.....a joke. Already there is a lot of crap information on this thread. I actually go to a urology department at a incredibly highly regarded university hospital, and am actually being treated. Some of the information on here is completely bogus.

    Here is the worst: taking Testim (for example) encourages your gonads to produce MORE testosterone. Huh...really? It absolutely does not do that. Also any time someone refers to "your biochemistry" you know its bad information. That is akin to speaking about "the entire engine" when you are really speaking about one specific fuel injector. Any time someone paints anything medical in broad strokes, hit the trial. Because everything is very very specific.

    (If this need for information is for you.....) Do you even know your own test number? and if so, what is it? But if you just want to have a discussion, then go to the Mayo Clinic data base. Personally I can't look anymore because circus clowns scare me.


    I have hypoandrogenisis. Biochemistry will adjust, that's what my doctor told me. Troll elsewhere. I don't know about Andropause, I think that's just aging. If that's the case he may need to be on it for a long long time. He's probably not getting that signal.

    He should talk to his doctor, like I said HRT is a fuzzy topic. It depends on what's causing low testosterone. If it's just high estrogens than he doesn't need to be on testosterone at all. My doctor was hoping that would be the case when I first started.

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    Aug 12, 2012 9:31 PM GMT
    This is the problem, first finding a doctor who doesn't wash off the whole issue as unimportant, due to his ignorance and attitude, even when the numbers and symptoms are in front of him.

    The other big problem is I only have Medicare and Medicaid (Medicaid is only for in-state). Most specialists, endos and urologists, don't take Medicare unless sometimes working at a University or, not good doctors. I don't have the money. So I am still looking and hoping I will find a knowledgeable doctor who knows what this is all about and can safely help me.

    This is now two to three years looking, waiting for my doctor to find someone, looking on the web, asking...nobody takes Medicare. I've been to an endocrinologist who agreed to take Medicare and was an idiot, and now to another endocrinologist at a large university who....ugh, long story. They aren't getting it. I will keep looking.

    The doctors that sound like the really get it and are the most up to date, safe, and scientifically thorough in from testing, diagnosis to treatment, are those into what is called anti-aging science. They cost thousands of dollars a years. Must be some doctor somewhere! I hope. I live in Hartford CT area, and can travel a little for a good doctor who knows about this.

    Thanks for your posts, and please post more if you wish.

    I am looking for a urologist now that I tried the endocrinologists. Not finding any yet who I could pay for.
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    Aug 12, 2012 9:49 PM GMT
    timct saidThis is the problem, first finding a doctor who doesn't wash off the whole issue as unimportant, due to his ignorance and attitude, even when the numbers and symptoms are in front of him.

    The other big problem is I only have Medicare and Medicaid (Medicaid is only for in-state). Most specialists, endos and urologists, don't take Medicare unless sometimes working at a University or, not good doctors. I don't have the money. So I am still looking and hoping I will find a knowledgeable doctor who knows what this is all about and can safely help me.

    This is now two to three years looking, waiting for my doctor to find someone, looking on the web, asking...nobody takes Medicare. I've been to an endocrinologist who agreed to take Medicare and was an idiot, and now to another endocrinologist at a large university who....ugh, long story. They aren't getting it. I will keep looking.

    The doctors that sound like the really get it and are the most up to date, safe, and scientifically thorough in from testing, diagnosis to treatment, are those into what is called anti-aging science. They cost thousands of dollars a years. Must be some doctor somewhere! I hope. I live in Hartford CT area, and can travel a little for a good doctor who knows about this.

    Thanks for your posts, and please post more if you wish.

    I am looking for a urologist now that I tried the endocrinologists. Not finding any yet who I could pay for.


    I am sorry to hear about your situation. I am under HRT and had to get a specialist and fight one endocrinologist that had no clue about my condition. She was advising it was just old age, but in these days we have to be advocates of our own health. I then dropped her since she was a referral from my primary doctor and got a male specialist on my own. Your symptoms are real and unfortunately we have these text book doctors that just go by the numbers of the lab, and think that by dismissing your symptoms by lab numbers they will shut you down. In my case, I continued to fight until I found someone that would listen to me and I knew that feeling this way was not right. You are correct also that my insurance does not pay for the HRT treatment that I am currently on I had to pay it out of my own pocket. Unfortunately, most of these specialists have opened their own anti-aging clinics since its not lucrative by the insurance companies to pay since they do not see it as a problem in men. However, this is another problem of our health care system, which does not believe in preventive medicine or keeping patients healthy and out of the hospitals, but only when it comes chronic which just increases the cost of medical treatment that we all up paying in the end. -but that is another issue.

    My recommendation continue to seek someone do not loose hope.
  • Vaughn

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    Aug 12, 2012 9:59 PM GMT
    Uroligist... You could get it from a Chiropractor. I'm not joking, kids at school get their gear from them. Your problem is in your endocrine sytem. You should see an endocrinologist if your serious about the issue. Just so the troll knows I belive that advise is good even though I'm not a doctor, but because I've also been through this and I'm a cognative nuerosciences student. I've done twice as much homework.

    Do you know your T-Score?

    What are your symptoms?

    I went in for severe fatigue and frequent illness. They found high colesterol and muscle wasting (people always told me to eat more, I didn't get why that wasn't working) as well as low HGH and estrogens. T-Score 250. My T-Score is 340 a year later I've gained nearly 20 pounds and my cholesterol has already normalized. I take testim which is very slow to work. You may want to look into the shot. My doctor is going to take me off of the testim when my T-Score is over 600. If my body doesn't bounce back to that range he will put me back on it till it is much higher than 600. If that doesn't work then the whole weak estrogen thing to trick my body.

    HRT is very expensive Testim costs rent. I have to get blood work done every month. If your having a hard time paying for an endocrinologist, are you sure you can afford HRT?
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    Aug 12, 2012 10:49 PM GMT
    Bigsky, thanks for posting. That's just what I am looking for...a truly qualified and knowlegeable doctor.

    That's the problem, Vaughn, I'm unnecessarily suffering (and many men are but don't know it...but I researched this once I found out I had low T) because of money. It is also really because of the ignorance and I think the taboo of this issue (men and hormonal health, particularly low T and andropause) among doctors. A lot of them are going through it themselves and a form or another of denial. The scientific info is around, and I don't know if or when the medical profession will get around to actually learning it and teaching it so all endocrinologists/urologists, even PCP's know what to do.

    Thank you, uombroca, for your support. That is all I know I can do is just keep looking. It's like a looking for a needle in haystack but it is all I can do, while I see my condition worsening. Not trying to show how pitiful this is. It shows how stupid and criminal it is, particularly as a lot of me are going through similar or related situations and have no idea.

    To be most practical, I am hoping someone living near me might know of someone....not someone who throws a packet of Androgel at me and leaves it at that like most doctors, if they bother. I'm talking of doctors who know what Vaughn explained, and also uombroca, if not others. This is why I cannot do it on my own, it requires doctor who "gets it" and all the details. I believe most men treated for low T are not getting the right help or safe help, from what I read, and from a lecture/seminar I attended by one of the doctors who does know but is totally unafforadable.


  • Beeftastic

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    Aug 12, 2012 11:23 PM GMT
    My natural testosterone was really low when I went on testosterone, it was around 100, which is about what a womans level can be! So my production had pretty much shut down. Starting testosterone really turned my life around, it was great for my health, my self-esteem, and my sex life icon_smile.gif I have been on it for about 6 years.

    I have been reading up on ways to get your natural testosterone levels up, and there is a lot out there, lead by people recovering from steroid use (which is an extreme case vs. someone on test supplementation). There are some ways to kick start your test production. Do some research on PCT (post cycle therapy) for steroid users. I also know a person who is supposedly an expert on this who consults and says he can double and triple a persons natural test level without drugs. I can send you his info. I don't really know if how legitimate he is, but he is a resource.

    Do a search on Triptorelin, which is a compound that has shown in research to restart test production in guys who have been on steroids for years, and had very low natural test levels. I actually know a legal place you can buy this in the USA if you want to know.

    I am thinking about trying some of these things sometime in the future and getting off my test supplementation. I get some side effects from test, including I sweat a lot, I sometimes get a mild fever, and even with my insurance, I pay about $500 a year in copays.

    In herbals, you can take a combination of Tribula, horny goat weed, and yohimbe, this is supposed to up your natural test levels. I have taken it and I can't say it upped my test, but it feels like it, and it makes you really horny. Those herbs are the basis of most of those herbal viagra formulas like Extense etc. If I knew then, what I know now, I would try these alternatives before I started on replacement therapy.
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    Aug 12, 2012 11:32 PM GMT
    timct saidBigsky, thanks for posting. That's just what I am looking for...a truly qualified and knowlegeable doctor.

    That's the problem, Vaughn, I'm unnecessarily suffering (and many men are but don't know it...but I researched this once I found out I had low T) because of money. It is also really because of the ignorance and I think the taboo of this issue (men and hormonal health, particularly low T and andropause) among doctors. A lot of them are going through it themselves and a form or another of denial. The scientific info is around, and I don't know if or when the medical profession will get around to actually learning it and teaching it so all endocrinologists/urologists, even PCP's know what to do.

    Thank you, uombroca, for your support. That is all I know I can do is just keep looking. It's like a looking for a needle in haystack but it is all I can do, while I see my condition worsening. Not trying to show how pitiful this is. It shows how stupid and criminal it is, particularly as a lot of me are going through similar or related situations and have no idea.

    To be most practical, I am hoping someone living near me might know of someone....not someone who throws a packet of Androgel at me and leaves it at that like most doctors, if they bother. I'm talking of doctors who know what Vaughn explained, and also uombroca, if not others. This is why I cannot do it on my own, it requires doctor who "gets it" and all the details. I believe most men treated for low T are not getting the right help or safe help, from what I read, and from a lecture/seminar I attended by one of the doctors who does know but is totally unafforadable.




    Yes, you need to see an endocrinologist, not a family doctor.
    If you take testo, then stop, you will get back to you starting point in a few weeks, it's doesn't change you ability to make it yourself.

    Testo levels are normally self regulated : your body produce less or more of it depending on the quantity in your blood.
    There is many, many factors adjusting that self regulation. For example, just stress or intensive workout can reduce it.

    As you already noticed, 'normal' levels are to be taken with a grain of salt. What's sure i that it decrease regularly after the end of your teens years, but two guys can have have very different level and yet be completely normal and functioning (libido, aggressiveness, mood etc...).

    Hormonal therapy to 'adjust' level in aging population is a good business, because many of us wish they could preserve youthful energy a bit longer. So be also cautious with expensive doc promising the moon.

    Otherwise, you should give it a try.





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    Aug 12, 2012 11:45 PM GMT
    I did try to raise it naturally. I didn't trust doing it myself. I worked with a trainer who took classes under and is certified by Charles Poliquin (who has trained Olympians worldwide) to do supplementation. I tried his extremely well planned and picky androgen protocol to raise testosterone. It did basically nothing.
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    Aug 15, 2012 4:29 PM GMT
    Testosterone replacement has one key disadvantage, your taking a exogenous form of testosterone via Cream, Injection gel etc then tells your body " hey we got all we need so no need to tell the boys the don't need to make any more". The body works with feedback loops this one is the Hypothalmic pituitary testicular axis HPTA. Results of this are the complete shutdown or almost complete shut down of your body making its own endogenous test.This can be remedied in part by also taking other meds to trick the body into still producing its own test ( Such as injectable FSH). Do I think this should sway you from getting test replacement..................NOPE cause if you feel like crap then better to feel better and "potentially" have to stay on a " med" for the rest of your life. Also, incidentally you can also just get FSH to see if you can force your body into producing more test on its own. This Idea relates to the idea of Primary and Secondary Hypogonadism( IE is the prob with your testicles or is your prob your Hyp/ Pit not telling your testicles to produce said test). ALL of this can be sorted with Blood tests to see the " cause" of the dysfunction.... In other words go see another doc icon_smile.gif
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    Aug 22, 2012 4:09 AM GMT
    I didn't read all of the posts, but I can say at one time for a long time I was on Androgel and I apparently had a subnormal count of testosterone. I was taken off of it because I didn't need it anymore and I would have to agree with the making best friends with your palm thing....it helps icon_smile.gif
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    Aug 22, 2012 4:16 AM GMT
    Just do what guys on steroids do for post cycle therapy. Take a natural testosterone booster which you can find at most supplement websites such as www.bodybuilding.com and take a SERM such as liquid Tamox aka Nolvadex: http://www.ar-r.com/tamox-50ml-20mg-ml.html

    For the Tamox: Take 60 mg per day for 7 days, then 40 mg per day for 7 days and then 20 mg per day for 14 days. Mix it with a couple of cups of water and slam it. It tastes like mouthwash. Your balls will grow back if they have shrunk and so will your sex drive.
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    Aug 22, 2012 4:41 AM GMT
    LAGuy1979 saidJust do what guys on steroids do for post cycle therapy. Take a natural testosterone booster which you can find at most supplement websites such as www.bodybuilding.com and take a SERM such as liquid Tamox aka Nolvadex: http://www.ar-r.com/tamox-50ml-20mg-ml.html

    For the Tamox: Take 60 mg per day for 7 days, then 40 mg per day for 7 days and then 20 mg per day for 14 days. Mix it with a couple of cups of water and slam it. It tastes like mouthwash. Your balls will grow back if they have shrunk and so will your sex drive.

    I thought you needed a prescription for nolvadex.
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    Aug 22, 2012 4:51 AM GMT
    "Need" and "Should have according to the law" are two different things. You can get anything on the internet if you know where to look. I have used Nolva from the website at the link I provided as well as many of their peptides and have had great results.