Possible War With Iran

  • metta

    Posts: 39143

    Aug 17, 2012 7:14 AM GMT


    There seems to be too many threads on the possible war with Iran. It makes it too hard to keep track of them. I thought it would be easier if we had just one main thread for this topic instead.


    So here it is.

  • metta

    Posts: 39143

    Aug 17, 2012 7:15 AM GMT
    Hedge funds bet on oil spike as Israel attack fears grow

    "Hedge funds are quietly laying new bets on a potential spike in oil prices tied to the possibility of an Israeli attack on Iran, skewing the options market to a bullish bias for the first time in six months."


    http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/08/17/us-oil-funds-iran-idINBRE87G03H20120817
  • metta

    Posts: 39143

    Aug 17, 2012 7:18 AM GMT
    Israel would face challenge in bombing Iran nuclear sites, experts say


    http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/13/world/meast/israel-iran-attack/index.html


    At this time "58% of Israelis are against going to war with Iran without the US backing or starting it." (from video clip)
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19136

    Aug 17, 2012 1:33 PM GMT
    This would be a catastrophic mistake if Israel attacks Iran. I don't see how the US would not be able to keep from getting pulled into this somehow, which would really mean all hell would break loose. I hope our leaders do absolutely everything humanly possible to keep this from happening. It will lead us nowhere good.
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    Aug 17, 2012 2:26 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidThis would be a catastrophic mistake if Israel attacks Iran. I don't see how the US would not be able to keep from getting pulled into this somehow, which would really mean all hell would break loose. I hope our leaders do absolutely everything humanly possible to keep this from happening. It will lead us nowhere good.
    Romney wants it badly.icon_wink.gif
  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Aug 17, 2012 2:37 PM GMT
    TropicalMark saidRomney wants it badly.icon_wink.gif


    well the neo-cons do, romney's just their fauxhawk du jour
  • metta

    Posts: 39143

    Aug 17, 2012 3:49 PM GMT
    TropicalMark said
    CuriousJockAZ saidThis would be a catastrophic mistake if Israel attacks Iran. I don't see how the US would not be able to keep from getting pulled into this somehow, which would really mean all hell would break loose. I hope our leaders do absolutely everything humanly possible to keep this from happening. It will lead us nowhere good.
    Romney wants it badly.icon_wink.gif



    Sheldon Adelson wants it badly.....Romney wants Sheldon Adelson's $100 million for his campaign as well as the votes from Americans that get a kick out of us being a 'bad ass' to other countries that are not our allies.....actually they get a kick out of being a 'bad ass' to any other country, including our allies...after what we saw with him in the UK.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19136

    Aug 17, 2012 4:14 PM GMT
    Truth be told, I don't think ANYONE, including Israel, truly want a war with Iran or anyone else. Whether that alone will keep it from happening is another story that remains to be seen. God help us all if it should actually become a reality. It will lead us nowhere good.
  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Aug 17, 2012 6:52 PM GMT
    metta8 said<

    Sheldon Adelson wants it badly......


    Ryan had his chip installed earlier this week:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/15/us/politics/paul-ryan-meets-sheldon-adelson-in-las-vegas.html

    I'm sure Romney got his money.
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    Aug 17, 2012 7:47 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidTruth be told, I don't think ANYONE, including Israel, truly want a war with Iran or anyone else. Whether that alone will keep it from happening is another story that remains to be seen. God help us all if it should actually become a reality. It will lead us nowhere good.


    The more convinced Iran is that we'll 'do it' the less likely it is that we'll have to. Go Neo cons!
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    Aug 17, 2012 7:53 PM GMT
    If you *truly* believe that, then you really don't know much about Iran.


    freedomisntfree said
    CuriousJockAZ saidTruth be told, I don't think ANYONE, including Israel, truly want a war with Iran or anyone else. Whether that alone will keep it from happening is another story that remains to be seen. God help us all if it should actually become a reality. It will lead us nowhere good.


    The more convinced Iran is that we'll 'do it' the less likely it is that we'll have to. Go Neo cons!
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    Aug 17, 2012 10:48 PM GMT







    There is an active Neo Con/Israeli LIKUD party effort being pushed by Netanyahu and Barak to head toward war with the specific goal of bringing in the US. The Israeli Writers/Media and so on are very upset about this push for war under Netanyahu.

    Netanyahu and his LIKUD party are financed largely by ADELSON and ADELSON is FINANCING UP TO $100,000 TO INFLUENCE OUR ELECTIONS TO GET WHAT ISRAEL WANTS, right now they are hyping up what the extremists see as a need for war with IRAN.

    THIS IS ANOTHER EXTREMIST PUSH FOR WAR FROM MOSTLY THE VERY SAME PEOPLE WHO PUSHED THE US IN IRAQ, Do you recognize the names WILLIAM KRYSTOL ? PAUL WOLFOWITZ ? KRAUHEIMER ? BREMMER ? CHENEY ? BOLTON ? THE ISRAELI LOBBY AIPAC ? NETANYAHU, ETC. ???

    IT IS NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORY, IT IS EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING !!!! These NEO CONs, THE ISRAELI LOBBY AIPAC, together with NETANYAHU have the US Politics by the balls with their money and influence. Sadly the American public are ignorant as hell about it.


    Take note of these articles, This is an extremely important issue !!


    "Israelis Against War on Iran"
    August 17, 2012 at 01:54:43

    By

    Stephen Lendman (about the author)

    Most Israeli military and political leaders oppose war.

    by Stephen Lendman

    Polls show most Israelis and Americans oppose war with Iran. Political leaders pay no attention nor ask why Iran, with or without nuclear weapons, would strike Israel or any other country?

    Iran hasn't attacked another nation in over 200 years. It threatens none now. It's not developing or producing nuclear weapons. Washington, Israeli, and most other world leaders know it.

    Iran's nuclear program is red herring cover. It's used as pretext to replace an independent state with a subservient pro-Western one. It's also about furthering Israeli regional dominance.

    Waging full-scale war on Syria and/or Iran is madness. War with either country is all lose, no gain, and potential catastrophic consequences if things spin out of control. Warmongers push ahead with plans anyway.

    Israel will be gravely affected if they're implement. Why else would most Israelis oppose war and Netanyahu for threatening it. Last spring, hundreds marched in Tel Aviv against it. They chanted anti-Netanyahu slogans and railed against AIPAC.

    They never went away. Expect them back. They're joined by many others. On August 16, Haaretz headlined "Hundreds of Israelis petition IDF pilots: Refuse orders to bomb Iran, saying:

    Tel Aviv law professors Menachem Mautner and Chaim Gans joined them. Petition language calls attacking Iran a "highly mistaken gamble."

    Besides fundamental legal issues, at best it will delay, not destroy, Iran's nuclear program. Doing so also exacts "an exorbitant price."

    Petition language said "No."

    "Certainly, this is not a simple option. It involves profound professional and moral dilemmas, and carries the risk of losing a career which is important to you and also the possibility of being prosecuted."

    "Nevertheless, it is your duty to consider most carefully and seriously the possibility that by saying the little word 'No,' you will be rendering an important and vital service to the State of Israel and all who live here. This service would be infinitely more important than blind obedience to this particular order."

    The petition also explained that bombing Iran's nuclear facilities involves irradiating large areas. Doing so harms civilians. "Israel as a country, as well as those carrying out the bombing might be charged with war crimes."


    Professor Gans explained why he signed the petition, saying:

    "It is clear that the consequences of (war on Iran) would be destructive in every possible way."

    Haaretz said Physicians for Human Rights-Israel and senior Israeli "health establishment" doctors wrote Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak. They oppose war. They expressed fears of unavoidable catastrophic consequences.

    They said "(w)e will be the ones you will seek out to heal and put together what you have broken. We call on you: Don't break. First do no harm."


    On August 16, Israeli Ynet News headlined "Flurry of petitions against strike on Iran," saying:

    Resistance to war appears growing. Twenty IDF reserve officers wrote Netanyahu. They expressed concerns like others. Imminent dangers focus minds on what's not previously considered.

    Hopefully it's a good sign. It better be in dealing with sociopaths impersonating leaders. Netanyahu and Barak are two of the worst. No one's safe with them in charge.

    On August 15, Richard Silverstein wrote about "Bibi's Secret War Plan." He published "an important leaked Israeli government document." A "trusted source" sent it. He's a "former Israeli government minister." He got it from an IDF officer.

    He sent it because he and his source oppose war. He revealed it to expose Israeli leadership plans "to take Israel to war." His "mission" is to prevent it. He said no Israeli official denied the authenticity of what he revealed.

    His source said he normally wouldn't leak this type document. "These are not normal times," he explained. "I'm afraid Bibi and Barak are dead serious."

    Silverstein calls them a "two-headed warrior." Monster would be more appropriate. Virtually no "senior (Israeli) military or intelligence officer wants this war." It's unlikely current officials wrote the leaked material.

    "It feels more likely it came from".national security advisor Yaakov Amidror, a former general, settler true-believer, and Bibi confidant." Barak acolytes perhaps also were involved.

    Material was prepared for Netanyahu's eight-member security cabinet. They stand "4-3" against war. Bibi's pitching recalcitrant ministers. He's manipulating them to go along. His argument is that Israel can wage "a pure technology war" with few Israeli casualties.

    His "sleight of hand" omits a certain Iranian counterattack. Silverstein calls what Netanyahu and Barak have in mind a "product of the Israeli dream factory."

    It manufactures threats and clean strategies to address them. It never produces what's promised. Mission accomplished may be catastrophic. This genie can't be rebottled if unleashed.

    Silverstein translated from the original Hebrew. Key portions are as follows:

    1 | 2 | 3 | 4


    Jewish writers here in the US and Israel as well as thousands of very well educated Israel's are very much against this Netanyahu/LIKUD extremists push for war. and over and over again, I've read of writers wishing the USEFULL IDIOT CHRISTIAN FUNDI'S IN THE US WOULD STOP BACKING NETANYAHU'S EXTREME ACTIONS INVOLVING WAR AND THE SETTLEMENTS.

    Americans need to wake up and have this discussion and get the facts.

    Lastly it is not anti semitic to expose the truth. being against Israeli far right leadership actions, does not constitute hate of Israel as a country nor of Israel as a people with rights to a homeland. Its just that they aren't the only ones with rights, Palestinians have a right to their homeland and Iran under its Nuclear Treaties have rights to, and Israel's leadership is hyping up mistranslations of words and actions from Iran as a lead up to war, whether its for securing Israel's power or what I don't know, We know for a fact that Iran has not killed Israeli Scientists, we know they haven't sabbatoged Israels Internet systems and so on. We should know enough to see through this hype from Israel and not fall for another war as we did with Iraq. the US has paid far too high a price over the last 10 + years for our blind backing of Israels actions due to the ISRAELI LOBBY and associates influence and monetary pressure.
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    Aug 17, 2012 10:51 PM GMT
    "I do not know how the Third World War will be fought, but I can tell you what they will use in the Fourth — rocks!"
    -Albert Einstein

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/World_War_III
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    Aug 17, 2012 11:04 PM GMT
    ConfederateGhost saidIf you *truly* believe that, then you really don't know much about Iran.


    freedomisntfree said
    CuriousJockAZ saidTruth be told, I don't think ANYONE, including Israel, truly want a war with Iran or anyone else. Whether that alone will keep it from happening is another story that remains to be seen. God help us all if it should actually become a reality. It will lead us nowhere good.


    The more convinced Iran is that we'll 'do it' the less likely it is that we'll have to. Go Neo cons!





    ConfederateGhost, We have to understand that statements from the likes of the above come from the typical blind Christian Fundi followers. They believe whole heartedly that their bible (GOD) orders "That the nation that blesses Israel will be blessed of god".

    To them this means that what Israel wants, Israel is to get and any US official that stands in Israels way of getting more land or keeping land they took from Palestinians is going not just against Israel, but against god's teachings. This belief extends to all Israel's dealings with all of its other neighbors as well.

    There is a huge battle ahead to overcome such FAITH BASED IGNORANCE, if our foreign policy is to ever really be fair and considered legitimate in the Middle East. As it stands now on these matters the US is just about as far out on an isolated limb as Israel because of the US subservience to Israeli Lobby wishes. all you have to do is look at the number of times the US stands alone with Israel, and can you tell me with a straight face that each and every time, doing so is really more in the US interest rather than only in Israels interest ? This whole set up where Israel's Lobby is concerned is a definate black eye and an embarassment to the US Foreign Policy.
  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Aug 17, 2012 11:40 PM GMT
    realifedad said
    As it stands now on these matters the US is just about as far out on an isolated limb as Israel because of the US subservience to Israeli Lobby wishes.

    disclaimer: i am from french/arab parents, I was born in the US but grew up mostly in europe. So i don't have the (typical?) POV of a US person, as far as US/israeli relations go.

    help me understand why it should be considered sacred for the US to always have israel's back? was there a crystalised moment in time to create this alliance? oh and i'm not a holocaust denier, i get that, i just wondered if something else was at the root of it.

    to me, israel behaves like a spoiled child and throws tantrums to have his way, while the parent (the US) bends over backwards to give the child (israel) everything he wants, and defends their rude obnoxious offspring. What gives israel this leverage?

    they talk big but israel wouldn't last 3 hrs in a war with iran w/o the US.

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    Aug 17, 2012 11:45 PM GMT
    War=kosher Republican form of fiscal stimulus after 1980
    (like corticosteroids...weaning off them is the hard part)

    What we REALLY need is an alien invasion. Then you'll have stimulus all over the world.icon_lol.gif
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    Aug 18, 2012 12:19 AM GMT
    thadjock said
    realifedad said
    As it stands now on these matters the US is just about as far out on an isolated limb as Israel because of the US subservience to Israeli Lobby wishes.

    disclaimer: i am from french/arab parents, I was born in the US but grew up mostly in europe. So i don't have the (typical?) POV of a US person, as far as US/israeli relations go.

    help me understand why it should be considered sacred for the US to always have israel's back? was there a crystalised moment in time to create this alliance, oh and i'm not a holocaust denier, i get that, i just wondered if something else was at the root of it.

    to me, israel behaves like a spoiled child and throws tantrums to have his way, while the parent (the US) bends over backwards to give the child (israel) everything he wants, and defends their rude obnoxious offspring. What gives israel this leverage?

    they talk big but israel wouldn't last 3 hrs in a war with iran w/o the US.




    Based on my reading from many writers, a lot of whom were Jewish, some of this 'Carte Blanche' backing is somewhat based on guilt because the US stood back for too long, not doing what it could have in saving the European Jewish families from Hitler. It was a travesty to stand back as we did. So therefore not only the US but the world bodies as a whole felt guilt and strived to make amends by setting up a Jewish Homeland.

    It somewhat fell on the US since it came out of the second world war as a noted super power to take up the slack or cause for Israel. The Christian Fundi thrust toward political involvement on behalf of Israel was in the background up until some of Reagans people thought it would be good to go after their votes through wedge issues. Even then the effort gained no real steam untill the Reverend Hagee's CHRISTIANS UNITIED FOR ISRAEL started taking in under its wing all Christian Fundi Denominations to push and politicize the need to honor Israel. During this time period in the late 20's and 80's, the Israeli Lobby AIPAC became stronger and stronger and saw a wedge of entry for more backers in the Christian Fundi groups even though originally Hagee preached that all Jews had to convert to christianity. They still somehow got around this mesianic difference for their mutual end goal of "Greater Israel", which means to Israel all of the West Bank (land intended for the Palestinians homeland) to the Jordan River, and to the Christian Fundi it means the Biblical fulfillment of the end times prophecy that Israel with return in all its former glory, where Solomons Temple is supposed to be rebuilt and New Jerusalem built. (Hense the strong Israeli Lobby and Christian Fundi stand against Jerusalem being divided)

    Wherever Religion rears its ugly head trouble follows,

    And that is what brings us to this point now that the Republicans are bending over backwards for this huge group of Christian Fundi voters. If it means the Republican won't get their vote if they push for Israel to stop the settlement building then they of course will say no such thing,

    On top of all this we have a money and politics problem here in the US, the Israeli Lobby is well known among other lobbies who grant or withold money for politicians candidacies based on their favors once in office.

    Now we have the dual Israeli/US Citizen ADELSON funding the Israeli LIKUD party with its Leader Netanyahu, and now supporting the US Republican presidential candidate Romney who simpathizes most with Israel's far right who insist on acquiring all of "Greater Israel" via the Settlement projects. Obama got on the bad list by stating that negotiations would begin at the 67' lines with agreed upon swaps and attempted insisting on an end to settlement building. However Obama has given more to Israel in Military support than any previous president.

    Guess who was the last President to slap down the settlement building ? Bush number one !!! He insisted that they stop or he'd cut off the US aid to Israel. But that was before the Israeli Lobby AIPAC and the Christian Fundi's became so strong politically.

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    Aug 18, 2012 12:39 AM GMT
    thadjock said
    TropicalMark saidRomney wants it badly.icon_wink.gif


    well the neo-cons do, romney's just their fauxhawk du jour

    Romney's just a puppet. I mean, he's so robotic and soulless that I don't think he even believes what he says.
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    Aug 18, 2012 1:02 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    CuriousJockAZ saidTruth be told, I don't think ANYONE, including Israel, truly want a war with Iran or anyone else. Whether that alone will keep it from happening is another story that remains to be seen. God help us all if it should actually become a reality. It will lead us nowhere good.


    The more convinced Iran is that we'll 'do it' the less likely it is that we'll have to. Go Neo cons!
    [/quote]

    ConfederateGhost saidIf you *truly* believe that, then you really don't know much about Iran.


    and somehow you do?
  • jock_1

    Posts: 1492

    Aug 18, 2012 1:03 AM GMT
    I hope it doesnt happen but if it does Isreal will strike during one of the conventions here in the US. That means sole focus will be on supporting Isreal. Its not a matter of "if" just a matter of "when"
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    Aug 18, 2012 1:11 AM GMT
    http://news.yahoo.com/tumour-israel-soon-destroyed-ahmadinejad-091548418.html

    It's time Israel. Go get em!
  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Aug 18, 2012 1:12 AM GMT
    People automatically assume it's about "supporting Israel." It's not. It's about supporting democracy and American interests.

    Let's be clear here: Iran is no Iraq. It is an actual a rogue state, a blight on the Middle East, a cancer, and a tyranny run by anti-Semitic, anti-American homicidal maniacs hiding behind a glorious and noble religion to do its dirt. We are talking about a government that has sponsored terrorism and even slaughtered its own people in the streets when they cried out for freedom. The proud people of Iran deserve better given the great history of their civilization. Does anyone really believe that the nutbags who rule Iran would hesitate for one moment to attempt the destruction of the United States of America if it had half a chance?

    If Israel makes sure Iran never gets that chance -- good. Nobody except people who truly hate Americans and Jews will weep for Ahmadinejad and the Ayotollah. May they rot in hell.
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    Aug 18, 2012 1:12 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    freedomisntfree said
    CuriousJockAZ saidTruth be told, I don't think ANYONE, including Israel, truly want a war with Iran or anyone else. Whether that alone will keep it from happening is another story that remains to be seen. God help us all if it should actually become a reality. It will lead us nowhere good.


    The more convinced Iran is that we'll 'do it' the less likely it is that we'll have to. Go Neo cons!


    ConfederateGhost saidIf you *truly* believe that, then you really don't know much about Iran.


    and somehow you do?[/quote]




    Well we know where you stand 'OLD GEEZER', whatever your Christian Fundi bible thumpers say on the subject is what you buy as gospel. They believe that we must 'bless israel to be blessed' so therefore if Israel wants war, war is what we in the US should back. Kinda like they believe that we in the US are losing 'god's' blessing over honoring gay rights and letting gays serve openly in the military.

    People like you don't think for yourselves, you think like your group does, like sheeple, blindly following your sainted leaders off the proverbial cliff.
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    Aug 18, 2012 1:27 AM GMT
    realifedad said
    freedomisntfree said
    freedomisntfree said
    CuriousJockAZ saidTruth be told, I don't think ANYONE, including Israel, truly want a war with Iran or anyone else. Whether that alone will keep it from happening is another story that remains to be seen. God help us all if it should actually become a reality. It will lead us nowhere good.


    The more convinced Iran is that we'll 'do it' the less likely it is that we'll have to. Go Neo cons!


    ConfederateGhost saidIf you *truly* believe that, then you really don't know much about Iran.


    and somehow you do?





    Well we know where you stand 'OLD GEEZER', whatever your Christian Fundi bible thumpers say on the subject is what you buy as gospel. They believe that we must 'bless israel to be blessed' so therefore if Israel wants war, war is what we in the US should back. Kinda like they believe that we in the US are losing 'god's' blessing over honoring gay rights and letting gays serve openly in the military.

    People like you don't think for yourselves, you think like your group does, like sheeple, blindly following your sainted leaders off the proverbial cliff.[/quote]

    And frantic fanatics such as yourself don't 'think' for us.

    Shockingly, It took you ONE entire minute to get back here. Why so long? WTF is wrong with you?

    Btw, I was looking at your profile the other day and noticed that you're 59 and I'm a mere 58 so I guess that makes you the old geezer ... correct!

    Look over to your left (since that's something you're so good at) and notice right above my avatar is my sreen name. Use it.
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    Aug 18, 2012 1:30 AM GMT
    http://news.yahoo.com/tumour-israel-soon-destroyed-ahmadinejad-091548418.html

    Time for action is now.