Political Talking Points

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 19, 2012 2:02 AM GMT
    There is a message moving through Facebook gaining viral strength and support in the last few days. Here it is:

    Did Obama Really Inherit A Mess?

    What Obama Inherited / What We Have Now

    Worst recession in 75 years / Recession is over

    13 straight months of job losses / 27 straight months of job increases

    Record job losses and more / 4 million private sector jobs recovered

    Unemployment going up / Unemployment going down

    Dow Jones down to 8,000 / Dow Jones over 13,000

    DJI plummeted 35% in 2008 / DJI regained all lost value and more

    $1.4T deficit / $1.3T deficit

    GM & Chrysler almost history / GM & Chrysler profitable

    Two Wars / One war and an exit strategy

    Osama Bin Laden on the loose / Osama Bin Laden DEAD!

    Obama inherited the worse mess since the great depression and he has the economy headed in the correct direction!

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    Aug 19, 2012 2:25 AM GMT
    With Bin Laden dead, I wonder who Mitt will blame for the next [setup] terrorist attack while he's in office.

    Iran, maybe?
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    Aug 19, 2012 12:52 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidWith Bin Laden dead, I wonder who Mitt will blame for the next [setup] terrorist attack while he's in office.

    Iran, maybe?


    some spoiled son of an U.S.-backed despot will step up.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Aug 19, 2012 2:10 PM GMT
    B787 saidThere is a message moving through Facebook gaining viral strength and support in the last few days. Here it is:

    Worst recession in 75 years / Recession is over



    I didn't need to read any further than this. Please let us know when this dream actually comes true. icon_wink.gif
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    Aug 19, 2012 2:19 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    B787 saidThere is a message moving through Facebook gaining viral strength and support in the last few days. Here it is:

    Worst recession in 75 years / Recession is over



    I didn't need to read any further than this. Please let us no when this dream actually comes true. icon_wink.gif



    Exactly.

    I had a dream also................I dreamed Obama kept even half of all his 'hope and change' promises.

    Then I woke up.

    I'm not negative though...............I have hope - and I believe in 'hope and change'..............'hope and change' for a new president who has enough business sense and world experience & integrity to get us out of the economic mess we're in and on to the road to solvency.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2929

    Aug 19, 2012 3:32 PM GMT
    I'm not negative though...............I have hope - and I believe in 'hope and change'..............'hope and change' for a new president who has enough business sense and world experience & integrity to get us out of the economic mess we're in and on to the road to solvency.

    And you believe that the Koch Brothers' wholly owned subsidiary is going to do that? Romney, who would sell his soul to be president?

    We're on the road to recovery. Only children (and Republicans) believe in the quick fix.

    Romney - "Integrity"? Oh, dear!
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    Aug 20, 2012 12:30 AM GMT
    El_Crankodor said
    Jockbod48 said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    B787 saidThere is a message moving through Facebook gaining viral strength and support in the last few days. Here it is:

    Worst recession in 75 years / Recession is over



    I didn't need to read any further than this. Please let us no when this dream actually comes true. icon_wink.gif



    Exactly.

    I had a dream also................I dreamed Obama kept even half of all his 'hope and change' promises.

    Then I woke up.

    I'm not negative though...............I have hope - and I believe in 'hope and change'..............'hope and change' for a new president who has enough business sense and world experience & integrity to get us out of the economic mess we're in and on to the road to solvency.

    But you're voting for Romney? Because you want someone with integrity?
    Hm.


    I think he wants someone who just has a fucking clue. Clearly, Obama is lacking in this respect. You can point to all the positive statistics you want, but the one that Obama cannot escape is that this has been the slowest recovery from a recession EVER. If he had any idea how business and the economy worked, we'd be MUCH further along in the recovery, unemployment would be lower, and overall American sentiment about the direction of the country would be higher.
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    Aug 20, 2012 1:23 AM GMT
    El_Crankodor said
    BornJuly4th saidI think he wants someone who just has a fucking clue. Clearly, Obama is lacking in this respect. You can point to all the positive statistics you want, but the one that Obama cannot escape is that this has been the slowest recovery from a recession EVER. If he had any idea how business and the economy worked, we'd be MUCH further along in the recovery, unemployment would be lower, and overall American sentiment about the direction of the country would be higher.

    I have exactly zero patience for this kind of pathetic bullshit.

    The recovery has been slow because the Republicans have deliberately made it so. They planned their obstruction before Obama even took the oath of office. And don't bother spinning it---they've already admitted it.

    Frankly, McConnell and Boehner should be tried for treason.


    The "pathetic bullshit" is the constant blaming of the Republican party for Obama's inability to get anything done to fix the economy, when he had control of both Houses of Congress for the first two years of his Administration. Reagan and Clinton had both houses AGAINST them, yet they managed to push through policies that got our country out of the respective recessions that existed when they took the oath of office. If Obama had actually done anything to build confidence within the business community instead of enacting policies (e.g. Obamacare and questionable regulatory changes, etc) that scared them away from actually hiring, maybe we wouldn't be in the shitstorm we're in right now. If we had been in the U.K. or countries with similar governmental rules, Obama would have been thrown out of office based on a lack of confidence vote due to his complete incompetence about how Washington works. He deserves to be unemployed more than any other American right now.

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    Aug 20, 2012 1:38 AM GMT
    El_Crankodor said
    BornJuly4th saidThe "pathetic bullshit" is the constant blaming of the Republican party for Obama's inability to get anything done to fix the economy, when he had control of both Houses of Congress for the first two years of his Administration. Reagan and Clinton had both houses AGAINST them, yet they managed to push through policies that got our country out of the respective recessions that existed when they took the oath of office. If Obama had actually done anything to build confidence within the business community instead of enacting policies (e.g. Obamacare and questionable regulatory changes, etc) that scared them away from actually hiring, maybe we wouldn't be in the shitstorm we're in right now. If we had been in the U.K. or countries with similar governmental rules, Obama would have been thrown out of office based on a lack of confidence vote due to his complete incompetence about how Washington works. He deserves to be unemployed more than any other American right now.

    There are only two possibilities here:
    either 1) you are spectacularly stupid or 2) spectacularly dishonest.

    In either event there's no point in my talking with you further.

    Personally, I think it's no. 2.


    If you even had an argument to make about any of my points above, you would have made it. Clearly you don't, so I would guess you're no. 1.
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    Aug 20, 2012 1:57 AM GMT
    El_Crankodor saidThink what you like. You right-wingers live in some bizarro fantasy world that has nothing to do with reality anyway, so have at it.


    The classic Democratic argument to logic and basic economic theory...that's why you're collectively running this country into the ground. You can preach until the the cows come home that how you're all about the middle class, but when you enact business-busting policies, you ruin any chance of the middle class actually getting hired or getting a raise. Time to step aside, old man. Maybe you should have paid attention in Economics 101 class in college instead of doing coke like your current Commander in Chief.
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    Aug 20, 2012 1:59 AM GMT
    Or you could just read this:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443477104577553211912280818.html?mod=ITP_opinion_2

    The 1.5% Presidency
    Growth stumbles for the third time in this Less Than Great Recovery.

    Wall Street Journal, Review and Outlook, July 27, 2012

    President Obama didn't comment on Friday's report of declining growth in the second quarter, and that's no surprise. The economic story of his Presidency is by now familiar: a plodding recovery that has taken its third dip in three years and is barely raising incomes for most Americans.

    "We're still in a position where we are pulling ourselves out of the very deep hole caused by the Great Recession, and there is still—of course—a great deal of anxiety in the country about the economy,'' said White House press secretary Jay Carney. He's right about the anxiety, but if only we were "pulling ourselves out."

    The reality is that the Great Recession ended three long years ago. In this Less Than Great Recovery, the economy shows promise for one good quarter then slows back down. As the nearby chart shows, this is the third straight year of sputtering recovery. Growth of 4.1% in the fourth quarter declined to 2% in the first and now 1.5% in the second. The stock market rose as investors bet that the lousy growth will inspire more Federal Reserve easing.

    The sliver of good news is that private growth, which is what really matters, was up a slightly less anemic 1.8%, and government spending fell by a minus-1.4% from the first quarter. Housing is also now less of a drag on GDP. But this makes the paltry 1.5% growth more disconcerting, because it means that other parts of the economy are growing less rapidly than they ought to be.

    Consumption ticked up only 1.5%, for example, down from 2.4% in the first quarter. This may reflect that wages and salaries are barely keeping pace with inflation. Another negative is that business inventories climbed unexpectedly in the second quarter, which often presages a decline in business spending in the next quarter to clear the shelves.

    It's important to understand how unusual this kind of weak recovery is. Deep recessions like the one from December 2007 to June 2009 are typically followed by stronger recoveries, as there is more lost ground to make up.

    The most recent comparable recession occurred in 1981-1982. Yet as the nearby chart shows, the Reagan expansion exploded with a 9.3% quarter and kept up a robust pace for years. By the 12th quarter of expansion, growth popped up to 6.4.%. At this stage of the Reagan expansion, overall GDP was 18.5% higher versus 6.7% for the Obama recovery, according to Congress's Joint Economic Committee.

    Even comparing this recovery with the average since the end of World War II, the Obama growth rate is well below the norm of 15.2%. The U.S. is running about $1.5 trillion of economic output behind where it should be.

    This may sound like an abstraction, but it is the difference between a robust job market and lost opportunity for millions of Americans. It is the difference between a small federal budget deficit and more than $1 trillion for four straight years. It is the difference between a rising or falling poverty rate.



    Mr. Obama is running for re-election as a tribune of the middle-class against "millionaires and billionaires," but his Presidency has been the worst for the middle class and the poor in decades.

    By the way, the federal Bureau of Economic Analysis chose this quarter to revise the post-2008 GDP numbers based on more detailed data, and it shows that the recovery was even weaker in 2010 than previously estimated. The growth rate for the first two quarters of 2010 were revised sharply downward, and for the year to 2.4% from 3%. The revisions also show the trough in 2009 was not as deep as originally thought.

    This further discredits the value of the government's 2009-2010 stimulus spending bonanza. Business investment and inventory buildup were both revised downward for 2010, which suggests that the stimulus did very little to boost business confidence.

    The Keynesian theory is that government spending will boost consumer demand in a way that spurs more business spending to meet it. But instead the $830 billion stimulus seems to have created a short-term GDP blip based on government expenditures, but no growth takeoff. In return for blowing out the federal balance sheet, Americans got more debt but not more growth. And Mr. Obama says he wants $100 billion in more stimulus now?

    The tragedy of the Obama Presidency is that it ignored the supply side: the producers, the risk-takers, the salary earners who put in 50 and 60 hours a week to get ahead. They have been battered by Washington, and no matter how much government tries to conjure growth with more spending and easier monetary policy, businesses won't produce and workers won't work if government threatens to confiscate returns.

    Banks aren't lending as much as they might in no small part because of Dodd-Frank's penalties and regulations. Investors aren't investing or are sending their money abroad because the President is promising to wallop them with huge tax increases on January 1. Businesses aren't purchasing as much new equipment, or hiring as many workers, because they don't know what the real costs will be from new regulation and ObamaCare.

    A new report by the Progressive Policy Institute—run by Democrats—finds that if business investment had tracked the normal trend rate during this recovery, investment would be $1.4 trillion higher. The report fingers regulation on business and American investors finding better returns abroad. Yet Mr. Obama's solution is to raise the capital gains and dividend tax rates.

    In this policy environment, the miracle is that the U.S. economy is still growing as much as it is. That is a tribute to the natural desire of Americans to better themselves, to create the next Apple, or to discover the next technique for pulling natural gas out of shale rock.

    Added to the record of the last four years, the 1.5% second quarter should solidify in the public mind that President Obama has failed on the economy. The challenge for Mitt Romney and the Republicans is to explain how we got to this pass—going back to the mistakes of the Bush years—why Mr. Obama's policies failed, and why their ideas can restore a prosperity that we once took for granted.

    A version of this article appeared July 28, 2012, on page A16 in the U.S. edition of The Wall Street Journal, with the headline: The 1.5% Presidency.