Gay and Pro-life?

  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Aug 21, 2012 8:27 PM GMT
    I get furious when gay rights are lumped together with pro-choice rights.icon_mad.gif You don't have to be straight (or religious) to be pro-life. These two issues have nothing to do with each other. I think the community would do well to distance itself from unrelated, devisive issues.


    How do others feel about this issue???


    Edit: My views on abortion have changed. Although I think taking an unborn life is sad, it's not my choice, not my body, and it's not fair for a man to force a woman to be pregnant.

    Life is a gift, and all of us who are born have our mothers to thank. They gave us our lives, and we should all respect women.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2012 8:31 PM GMT
    Not a hardcore pro-lifer here.
    I think abortion should be a last resort.
    I don't agree with that girl on youtube who posted a video answering questions about her abortion.
    Anencephaly, acardius, ectopic pregnancy, maybe harlequin ichthyosis are grounds for abortion.
    Abortions of convenience: no.
    Plus, there are times when the woman does want to have the child, but is pressured into an abortion by others, and who gets the blame? The woman.
    But I think this should be looked at on a case-by-case basis.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2012 8:31 PM GMT
    HottJoe said[...] I think the community would do well to distance itself from unrelated, devisive issues. [...]
  • onefortified

    Posts: 1630

    Aug 21, 2012 8:38 PM GMT
    They are separate issues. As pro-life/abortion is concerned, I think the choice is left up to the person, and I have no right to tell them what they should and shouldn't do. They get lumped together because the democratic party is thought to support both gay rights and pro choice rights, so people like to assume if you choose one of them you choose both.
  • booboolv

    Posts: 203

    Aug 21, 2012 8:41 PM GMT
    It isn't the babies fault the mother got pregnant. That said, it isn't the point of the OP's original statement. I do agree people need to focus on individual issues rather than making assumptions about entire population groups.
  • Sportsfan1

    Posts: 479

    Aug 21, 2012 8:44 PM GMT
    As a man I will never have to make that difficult choice as to whether to have an abortion. As far as I know I have never impregnated anybody so I have never had to face that decision either. I do consider myself pro-life. I believe every life has value and is precious and special. What if our mother's knew we were going to be born gay, would they have terminated the pregnancy?
    Of course I support most of the democrats platform but not this one.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2012 8:49 PM GMT
    I don't think it matters what I think. It's not my body. I guess that makes me pro choice. I agree with the OP though. There's no reason to lump this together with other unrelated issues.
  • charmr

    Posts: 233

    Aug 21, 2012 8:51 PM GMT
    BuddyinNYC said
    HottJoe said[...] I think the community would do well to distance itself from unrelated, devisive issues. [...]


    The thing is: They are both about human rights and the privilege of having choices!
  • charmr

    Posts: 233

    Aug 21, 2012 8:54 PM GMT
    Sportsfan1 saidAs a man I will never have to make that difficult choice as to whether to have an abortion. As far as I know I have never impregnated anybody so I have never had to face that decision either. I do consider myself pro-life. I believe every life has value and is precious and special. What if our mother's knew we were going to be born gay, would they have terminated the pregnancy?
    Of course I support most of the democrats platform but not this one.


    If your mother had felt that way, that would have been her choice, and you would never have been the wiser.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2012 8:55 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidI get furious when gay rights are lumped together with pro-choice rights.icon_mad.gif You don't have to be straight (or religious) to be pro-life. These two issues have nothing to do with each other. I think the community would do well to distance itself from unrelated, devisive issues.

    Personally, I'm pro-life and support gay adoption. icon_smile.gif

    How do others feel about this issue???


    Pro-choice, no question. It is none of our business to be telling women what to do with their bodies.

    Adoption is also an interesting question. I'm an adopted kid who loves his (adoptive) parents, I also found my birth mother later in life. While I "support gay adoption" in the general sense (i.e., no reason to deny gay couples the right to adopt the same as straight couples), adoption is not a panacea. Adoption is supposed to be primarily about the child, and somewhat about the birth parents and adoptive parents (the adoption triad). In practice it seems to end up being mostly about adoptive parents and the adoption agency - the latter of which shouldn't really have that much of a vested interest in things at all.

    Adoption should be all about providing a stable, loving home for a child whose birth parents can't or won't raise him, NOT about providing a child for the parents. That gets it completely backwards. And ALL adoptions should be open, or at least as open as is reasonably possible given the circumstances of the birth parents.

    I am NOT a fan of overseas adoption. It raises too many ethical issues and too many quandaries for the adopted child, not the least of which is separating him from his birth culture and from his birth parents. While I have friends who have gone this route, I have to avoid the topic with them.
  • charmr

    Posts: 233

    Aug 21, 2012 8:56 PM GMT
    Trollileo said
    charmr said
    BuddyinNYC said
    HottJoe said[...] I think the community would do well to distance itself from unrelated, devisive issues. [...]


    The thing is: They are both about human rights and the privilege of having choices!
    Um... Not really. If I had the choice I'd be straight.


    That's a choice you don't have and no one can give you. Although there are those who believe it is a choice. Thing is you can choose what you DO but you can't choose who YOU ARE
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2012 8:57 PM GMT
    Trollileo saidUm... Not really. If I had the choice I'd be straight.


    You are perfect just as you are -- we all are. Hope you see it someday. icon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2012 8:59 PM GMT
    Trollileo said
    charmr said
    BuddyinNYC said
    HottJoe said[...] I think the community would do well to distance itself from unrelated, devisive issues. [...]


    The thing is: They are both about human rights and the privilege of having choices!
    Um... Not really. If I had the choice I'd be straight.


    This is very very sad.
    Working for and choosing coexistence and tolerance is at least more realistic and inspires hope.
  • charmr

    Posts: 233

    Aug 21, 2012 9:02 PM GMT
    showme said
    HottJoe saidI get furious when gay rights are lumped together with pro-choice rights.icon_mad.gif You don't have to be straight (or religious) to be pro-life. These two issues have nothing to do with each other. I think the community would do well to distance itself from unrelated, devisive issues.

    Personally, I'm pro-life and support gay adoption. icon_smile.gif

    How do others feel about this issue???


    Pro-choice, no question. It is none of our business to be telling women what to do with their bodies.

    Adoption is also an interesting question. I'm an adopted kid who loves his (adoptive) parents, I also found my birth mother later in life. While I "support gay adoption" in the general sense (i.e., no reason to deny gay couples the right to adopt the same as straight couples), adoption is not a panacea. Adoption is supposed to be primarily about the child, and somewhat about the birth parents and adoptive parents (the adoption triad). In practice it seems to end up being mostly about adoptive parents and the adoption agency - the latter of which shouldn't really have that much of a vested interest in things at all.

    Adoption should be all about providing a stable, loving home for a child whose birth parents can't or won't raise him, NOT about providing a child for the parents. That gets it completely backwards. And ALL adoptions should be open, or at least as open as is reasonably possible given the circumstances of the birth parents.

    I am NOT a fan of overseas adoption. It raises too many ethical issues and too many quandaries for the adopted child, not the least of which is separating him from his birth culture and from his birth parents. While I have friends who have gone this route, I have to avoid the topic with them.


    You've got it right, and contrary to popular opinion, adopted children of gay parents have proved to be better adjusted than most others. Certainly the ones I know are!
  • somedaytoo

    Posts: 704

    Aug 21, 2012 9:03 PM GMT
    Pro Life, Gay & Proud
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2012 9:07 PM GMT
    I agree, the 2 have nothing to do with each other. I wasn't really aware they were often lumped together anyway.

    I don't know what I am though, pro life or choice. I'm not even sure why we're always supposed to pick sides in these sorts of issues. Not everything is black and white.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Aug 21, 2012 9:07 PM GMT
    somedaytoo saidPro Life, Gay & Proud


    icon_biggrin.gif
  • charmr

    Posts: 233

    Aug 21, 2012 9:21 PM GMT
    BuddyinNYC said
    HottJoe said[...] I think the community would do well to distance itself from unrelated, devisive issues. [...]


    I agree, but for politicians and others to disconnect is to accept individual choice. That would be great! but too many are unwilling to do so, insist on making those choices for others, which is really none of their business. No one [certainly not God] appointed these do-gooders as protectors of the unborn. Fetuses are not people.. They are a part of their mother's body, and she alone has a right to make such decisions. If the child is born, the mother [and father] will make many decisions for him/her before he/she is mature enough to make his own decisions. It will never rightfully be the choice of pro-lifers.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2012 9:34 PM GMT
    Well they're both about religious nuts trying to force their views on how others should live their lives by waving a 2000 year old version of Harry Potter in people's faces.

    But I get your point.... I don't like it when gay men get lumped in with Trannys and cross-dressers in the fight for rights and identity.

  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Aug 21, 2012 9:36 PM GMT
    charmr said
    BuddyinNYC said
    HottJoe said[...] I think the community would do well to distance itself from unrelated, devisive issues. [...]


    I agree, but for politicians and others to disconnect is to accept individual choice. That would be great! but too many are unwilling to do so, insist on making those choices for others, which is really none of their business. No one [certainly not God] appointed these do-gooders as protectors of the unborn. Fetuses are not people.. They are a part of their mother's body, and she alone has a right to make such decisions. If the child is born, the mother [and father] will make many decisions for him/her before he/she is mature enough to make his own decisions. It will never rightfully be the choice of pro-lifers.


    That's untrue. Fetuses are people. We start growing in the womb and continue to grow after we're born. Unborn babies have thoughts and are already taking in the sounds they hear. In fact, before they're born they already recognize their mom's voice and even the sound of the family dog! I think a lot of pro choice people assume that an unborn baby is just a blob of genetic material, or a piece of the mother's body (like you said), but really it's a human being and killing a human is murder. That's why people grieve their miscarriages for what they are, a death in the family.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Aug 21, 2012 9:37 PM GMT
    MsclDrew saidWell they're both about religious nuts trying to force their views on how others should live their lives by waving a 2000 year old version of Harry Potter in people's faces.

    But I get your point.... I don't like it when gay men get lumped in with Trannys and cross-dressers in the fight for rights and identity.



    You don't get my point at all. I would NEVER say that about Trannys and cross-dressers.icon_mad.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2012 9:39 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidI get furious when gay rights are lumped together with pro-choice rights.icon_mad.gif You don't have to be straight (or religious) to be pro-life. These two issues have nothing to do with each other. I think the community would do well to distance itself from unrelated, devisive issues.

    Personally, I'm pro-life and support gay adoption. icon_smile.gif

    How do others feel about this issue???


    Unless it's your sperm that fertilized the egg, your opinion and values are meaningless. The decision is ultimately up to the woman (unless Republicans have their way).
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2012 9:43 PM GMT
    I am pro-choice, but yes, it is a separate issue from glbt rights. It is funny that we are seeing differences here on the issue of abortion among the people RJ conservatives consider liberals and like to label "liberal hens". Kind of like the threads concerning the Colorado shootings, where there were differences among the "liberal hens" concerning gun control and the death penalty and unlike the one mind, one voice, one vision of the RJ conservatives.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2012 9:43 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    MsclDrew saidWell they're both about religious nuts trying to force their views on how others should live their lives by waving a 2000 year old version of Harry Potter in people's faces.

    But I get your point.... I don't like it when gay men get lumped in with Trannys and cross-dressers in the fight for rights and identity.



    You don't get my point at all. I would NEVER say that about Trannys and cross-dressers.icon_mad.gif


    Well that's your perspective...

    I would NEVER force a women to carry the products of her violent assault and rape to term
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2012 9:45 PM GMT
    TRASH the "pro-LIFE" crap!

    Everyone is "pro-life" unless you are a murderer and/or criminal who takes lives for the enjoyment of it (or you're a sick fucking bastard)

    Its Pro-CHOICE or No-CHOICE

    Its not my place to control others with their reproduction..or their "choices".
    Freedom means the freedom of CHOICE and NOT have 'someone' taking that CHOICE away..

    Now again, dump that bullshit "pro LIFE" crap.. that's a GOP/dictative bullshit term.icon_evil.gif