Presidential election poll: LGBT issues see historic political shift

  • metta

    Posts: 39134

    Aug 23, 2012 9:07 PM GMT
    Presidential election poll: LGBT issues see historic political shift

    "According to the survey, both LGBT and general population voters as a whole currently favor Barack Obama, yet 1-in-5 would cast a ballot for Mitt Romney if he held the same views as Obama on gay rights.

    Moreover, 1-in-4 would consider voting for other Republican candidates if the GOP held the same positions on LGBT rights as the Democratic Party."

    http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2012/08/poll-shows-economy-top-issue-among-lgbt-voters/
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 23, 2012 9:19 PM GMT
    It shouldn't be like this. No one should have to automatically cross off a political party because that party thinks you shouldn't exist.
  • metta

    Posts: 39134

    Aug 23, 2012 9:25 PM GMT
    Aress saidIt shouldn't be like this. No one should have to automatically cross off a political party because that party thinks you shouldn't exist.


    It is not the first time in history and it will not be the last.

    It makes it worse that we really only have 2 real parties to choose from. I think that is really a dangerous way to design a political system. The scary thing is how easy it is to use fear, religion and nationalism to get the majority to fall in line as seen with Bush Jr. Administration
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    Aug 24, 2012 2:00 AM GMT
    nycusa05 saidGay marriage, tradiional marriage...they are just labels. I dont get it


    But Civil Union is not the same. It implies the ability to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation what rights you are entitled to. As an American citizen, I am entitled to all rights with no need for a different label of distinction.
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1981

    Aug 24, 2012 2:01 AM GMT
    "Traditional Marriage" is a meaningless buzz-word of the conservative propaganda machine.
    Polygamy was actually the normal kind of marriage for much longer than one man one woman marriage. Polygamy is also common in the Bible.
    So that is the real "traditional" marriage.
    Strange I don't hear any Christian fundi's asking to return to that.
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    Aug 24, 2012 2:02 AM GMT
    nycusa05 saidI dont get the gay community. Their entire decision of voting for a candidate is based soley on one issue.....gay marriage. What about

    -taxes
    -jobs
    -deficit/spending
    -the economy
    -war on terror
    -high gas prices
    -illegal immigation (why cant they just come here legally. What's the problem)
    -abortion
    -health care
    -housing market

    All because someone supports traditional marriage it does not mean they dont support civil unions with all the same benefits.

    Gay marriage, tradiional marriage...they are just labels. I dont get it


    It isnt just one issue. It is an issue that is based on whether we are truly complete citizens just like straights. And if you are not a total bona fide citizen, secure in all your rights as a citizen, then the rest of that list really doesnt matter.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 24, 2012 2:07 AM GMT
    nycusa05 saidI dont get the gay community. Their entire decision of voting for a candidate is based soley on one issue.....gay marriage. What about

    -taxes
    -jobs
    -deficit/spending
    -the economy
    -war on terror
    -high gas prices
    -illegal immigation (why cant they just come here legally. What's the problem)
    -abortion
    -health care
    -housing market

    All because someone supports traditional marriage it does not mean they dont support civil unions with all the same benefits.

    Gay marriage, tradiional marriage...they are just labels. I dont get it



    It's not simply marriage equality which causes a lot of gay people to feel they have no place in the Republican party. It's the party's support for a host of positions in which gay people are singled out for exclusion from rights which are enjoyed by straight people. For instance, military service, adoption, employment. You may be too young to remember the years during which being out was sufficient in many states for a person to be denied professional certification in a number of fields.

    The other issues you raise are important to many gay people. But lots of us feel that a party which specifically singles us out for exclusion from civil rights is plainly hostile to our existence. And, therefore, it is foolish to offer support.
  • bmw0

    Posts: 588

    Aug 24, 2012 2:08 AM GMT
    nycusa05 saidI dont get the gay community. Their entire decision of voting for a candidate is based soley on one issue.....gay marriage. What about

    -taxes
    -jobs
    -deficit/spending
    -the economy
    -war on terror
    -high gas prices
    -illegal immigation (why cant they just come here legally. What's the problem)
    -abortion
    -health care
    -housing market

    All because someone supports traditional marriage it does not mean they dont support civil unions with all the same benefits.

    Gay marriage, tradiional marriage...they are just labels. I dont get it



    Funny that almost everything you mention is bad because of republican irresponsibility. Civil unions are NOT equal. I refuse to vote for someone who has it out for me.
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    Aug 24, 2012 2:09 AM GMT
    nycusa05 saidAll because someone supports traditional marriage it does not mean they dont support civil unions with all the same benefits.

    Gay marriage, tradiional marriage...they are just labels. I dont get it

    In the case of Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan, that is exactly what it is. Both are against gay marriage and civil unions. Mitt Romney was opposed to repeal of DADT and Paul Ryan voted against it. Both are opposed to EDNA which would add sexual orientation to employment nondiscrimination laws. So in a way, they are both against allowing equal benefits in the U.S. economy by not supporting allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military, by allowing glbt citizens to be fired for being gay, and not allowing same-sex couples the benefits that come with marriage or civil unions.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/09/mitt-romney-gay-marriage-civil-unions-obama_n_1503597.html
    "Well, when these issues were raised in my state of Massachusetts, I indicated my view, which is I do not favor marriage between people of the same gender, and I do not favor civil unions if they are identical to marriage other than by name," the former Massachusetts governor told Denver Fox affiliate KDVR-TV.
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    Aug 24, 2012 2:10 AM GMT
    nycusa05 saidI dont get the gay community. Their entire decision of voting for a candidate is based soley on one issue.....gay marriage. What about

    -taxes
    -jobs
    -deficit/spending
    -the economy
    -war on terror
    -high gas prices
    -illegal immigation (why cant they just come here legally. What's the problem)
    -abortion
    -health care
    -housing market

    All because someone supports traditional marriage it does not mean they dont support civil unions with all the same benefits.

    Gay marriage, tradiional marriage...they are just labels. I dont get it



    Gay progressives have views on those issues as well. That's what being a progressive is, having progressive views on a variety of issues.

    Anyway, that one issue happens to be our equality as human beings, which is being threatened by a party full of bigots.

    All matters of freedom and equality are connected. Social and economic. And progressive gays have their own economic views, foreign policy views, that line up with the same ideas that guide the issue of gay rights: our freedom and equality as human beings.

    Conservatives are fine with spending trillions, on war. In fact, if the military budget was cut, they would be the first to object. But if we want to spend money on things that help the people, they oppose it.

    I see nothing in the Constitution about how we should only care about making the rich richer, bombing other countries, and denying equal rights to people based on bigotry. The Preamble says the opposite.

    "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity".

    Of course, conservatives would probably demand a re-write of the preamble because it contains the words "promote the general Welfare". You know, those Founding Fathers being all socialist and all.

  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Aug 24, 2012 2:24 AM GMT
    nycusa05 saidI dont get the gay community. Their entire decision of voting for a candidate is based soley on one issue.....gay marriage. What about

    -taxes
    -jobs
    -deficit/spending
    -the economy
    -war on terror
    -high gas prices
    -illegal immigation (why cant they just come here legally. What's the problem)
    -abortion
    -health care
    -housing market

    All because someone supports traditional marriage it does not mean they dont support civil unions with all the same benefits.

    Gay marriage, tradiional marriage...they are just labels. I dont get it



    At one time I would have agreed with you. However, we've been waiting for fair treatment for too many decades. Therefore, I have decided to vote based on only one one issue, i.e., fair treatment for myself and other gay persons. I really don't like being a one-issue man, but I've been driven to that position.
  • comfortablynu...

    Posts: 230

    Aug 24, 2012 2:25 AM GMT
    nycusa05 saidI dont get the gay community. Their entire decision of voting for a candidate is based soley on one issue.....gay marriage. What about

    -taxes
    -jobs
    -deficit/spending
    -the economy
    -war on terror
    -high gas prices
    -illegal immigation (why cant they just come here legally. What's the problem)
    -abortion
    -health care
    -housing market

    All because someone supports traditional marriage it does not mean they dont support civil unions with all the same benefits.

    Gay marriage, tradiional marriage...they are just labels. I dont get it



    We tried "separate but equal" in this country before. It didn't work. The Constitution guarantees equal protection under the law. Married couples enjoy hundreds of benefits under the law that gay couples are not privy to in many states. Two Amendments to the constitution guarantee that no one shall be denied life liberty or property without due process. Unless being gay is a crime, these are injustices that need to be fixed.

    I used to take a more Libertarian view on gay marriage. That the government should recognize ONLY civil unions and let the churches decide what they wanted to call marriage. That was before the Mormon church decided to drop a money bomb on prop 8. If the church doesn't want the state meddling in their affairs, they should stay the hell out of the state's affairs.

    I care about all those other issues as well, but I side with the Democrats 9 times out of 10 on them just like I do with civil rights issues. Until there are more parties than the 2 in this country and I can find one more liberal than the sorry excuse for "progressives" that make up the Democratic party, I'm sticking with them.
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    Aug 24, 2012 2:35 AM GMT
    nycusa05 saidSo basically as long as you are married you are happy. You have no problem with any other issues like being homeless, jobless, in danger of terrorists attacks, being a victim of a crime, etc. Nothing of that matters as long as you are married? Sorry, I just dont get it.

    I guess you don't get it. You can still be thrown out of an apartment for being gay. (Homeless) You can still be fired from a job for being gay. (Jobless) Thanks to Democrats, crimes committed against someone just because they are gay is now included as part of hate crimes. Crime rates have fallen since Obama has been in office. http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/september/crime_091911/crime_091911 And do you really think you are in more danger from being a victim of terrorism than you were a few years ago?
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Aug 24, 2012 2:35 AM GMT
    nycusa05 saidSo basically as long as you are married you are happy. You have no problem with any other issues like being homeless, jobless, in danger of terrorists attacks, being a victim of a crime, etc. Nothing of that matters as long as you are married? Sorry, I just dont get it.


    Of course these things do matter and are important. But until I am treated as a first-class citizen, I will totally ignore all those other issues.

    Moreover, being gay increases the risk of being homeless, jobless, a victim of a crime, etc. That will continue to be the case until or unless social attitudes continue to change so that we gay men and women will be treated as equal to non-gays.

    If you had been disowned by your parents after being outed, as I was, and been evicted, as I was, and in fear of losing a job with a military contractor, as I was, your attitude would be very different. We have made considerable progress, but that progress has not occurred without continually fighting. We must continue to fight until gay youth no longer commit suicide as the result of being put down for being gay, and until a gay person can visit his or her partner in a hospital without first having to make legal threats, until same-sex couples are treated equally under tax law, etc. etc. If we fail to continue fighting, we will lose what we have fought so hard to gain.
  • waccamatt

    Posts: 1918

    Aug 24, 2012 2:37 AM GMT
    nycusa05 saidI dont get the gay community. Their entire decision of voting for a candidate is based soley on one issue.....gay marriage. What about

    -taxes
    -jobs
    -deficit/spending
    -the economy
    -war on terror
    -high gas prices
    -illegal immigation (why cant they just come here legally. What's the problem)
    -abortion
    -health care
    -housing market

    All because someone supports traditional marriage it does not mean they dont support civil unions with all the same benefits.

    Gay marriage, tradiional marriage...they are just labels. I dont get it



    1) You have a headless main pic - you're hardly the one to tell other gay people how to think.
    2) It isn't JUST about marriage equality, there is also the issue of anti-discrimination laws, which are overwhelmingly opposed by Republicans and overwhelmingly supported by Democrats.
    3) If you aren't free to be yourself, what in the hell else matters? I'd rather be dirt poor and starving while being true to myself than living in fear that somebody's going to find out that I'm gay.
    4) The other issues you've mentioned - really? Illegal immigration - why can't they come here legally? Do you know how freaking hard it is to emigrate to the U.S. legally? I had a co-worker have to move to the tiny and overcrowded United Kingdom after she married a British guy because it was easier for her to get into the UK than it was for him to come to the vastly less crowded United States. You're just a plant by the Republican'ts.
  • metta

    Posts: 39134

    Aug 24, 2012 2:37 AM GMT
    Civil Rights are very important and I don't think that it is ok to just step over the rights of a minority. We should have learned that lesson from Hitler. Many Germans supported Hitler because he was good for the country...made it strong, ect. It is not ok to treat any group as being less human than another...and I include women as an example as well.

    Aside from that. I don't think that Romney could do a better job than Obama. In fact, I think he would make things worse for everyone but the super wealthy. I don't think the economy is going to be fixed in another 4 years. From what I have read and from speaking to friends, one of whom teaches economics to students working on their Business Maters degrees, our financial problems are probably not going to be solved in another 4 years. It is going to take much longer than that. Our economy is really messed up...in fact the World economy is messed up....we are obviously not alone in this. And there are no solutions that will pull us out of it in a short time. Anyone that believes that Romney is going to fix it is just kidding themselves.

    I don't believe in the White Horse Prophecy!

    I'm thankful that it did not get worse than it did.



    Romney-White-Horse-460x307.jpg
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 24, 2012 2:59 AM GMT
    nycusa05 saidI am a discreet gay. Newslfash...I am not the only one. All because I am discreet does not mean I cant have an opinion. "A plant by the Republicans"....so silly. No, I am a Republican. To me marriage is at the bottom of the list. As long as civil unions get all the same rights as traditional married couples than all it is is a label at that point. Besides who the hell wants to get married these days when the divorce rate is climbing to 55%

    The Republican party does not support civil unions!
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    Aug 24, 2012 3:01 AM GMT
    The Republican party does not support civil unions...NOT TRUE!!
  • bmw0

    Posts: 588

    Aug 24, 2012 3:04 AM GMT
    nycusa05 saidI am a discreet gay. Newslfash...I am not the only one. All because I am discreet does not mean I cant have an opinion. "A plant by the Republicans"....so silly. No, I am a Republican. To me marriage is at the bottom of the list. As long as civil unions get all the same rights as traditional married couples than all it is is a label at that point. Besides who the hell wants to get married these days when the divorce rate is climbing to 55%


    The divorce rate in states that have legalized gay marriage has actually dropped.

    And civil unions are not on the repubs "platform" as a matter of fact its just the opposite.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 24, 2012 3:09 AM GMT
    nycusa05 saidThe Republican party does not support civil unions...NOT TRUE!!

    Sorry, it is true and if you are a Republican you should have seen this in the news the last few days.

    Educate yourself:

    Republican Party platform committee won’t include civil unions for gay couples
    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/republican-party-platform-committee-shoots-down-civil-unions-142819433.html

    GOP votes down civil unions
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/08/21/gop-votes-down-civil-unions/

    GOP platform committee rejects civil unions
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79936.html
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 24, 2012 3:12 AM GMT
    The Republican party needs to catch up to the 21st century.
  • comfortablynu...

    Posts: 230

    Aug 24, 2012 3:24 AM GMT
    Maybe a few of those millions should have been delegates, then. Your party platform doesn't support civil unions. You vote for them, you vote for the platform.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 24, 2012 3:25 AM GMT
    nycusa05 saidthere are millions of Republicans like me who support civil unions. Do your research.

    You are the one who made the claim, so why am I doing the research? Anyways-
    Republicans who support same-sex marriage- 9%
    Republicans who support civil unions- 37%
    REPUBLICANS WHO SUPPORT NO LEGAL RECOGNITION - 49%

    DEMOCRATS WHO SUPPORT SAME-SEX MARRIAGE - 57%
    Democrats who support civil unions - 17%
    Democrats who support no legal recognition - 19%

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57433493-503544/poll-most-americans-support-same-sex-unions/
  • fitone

    Posts: 276

    Aug 24, 2012 3:29 AM GMT
    All the reasons you list make me avoid the republican party. i used to be independent. the republicans have been obstructionist, and are more interested in obama not being elected than the health of our nation. i cannot fathom how anyone besides a greedy white straight rich man would vote for romney/ryan
  • bmw0

    Posts: 588

    Aug 24, 2012 3:40 AM GMT
    fitone saidAll the reasons you list make me avoid the republican party. i used to be independent. the republicans have been obstructionist, and are more interested in obama not being elected than the health of our nation. i cannot fathom how anyone besides a greedy white straight rich man would vote for romney/ryan


    This