You Aren't My Friend If You Vote Gary Johnson

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    Aug 30, 2012 2:35 AM GMT
    So I've run into this rather irritating issue recently. I am moving to Santa Barbara, which is a ways away from my friends and family, and as such am trying to say my farewells. I want to get together with my one friend for dinner, however we have a certain tension between us.

    Right or wrong, I am a Gary Johnson voter int he upcoming election. My friend has taken extreme umbrage at this, claiming that I owe Obama my vote and nothing else is acceptable. To the point that he is making it clear that he is uninterested in seeing me before I leave, which frankly hurts my feelings a great deal.

    The vast bulk of my friends I have known for many years, this being no exception. He's been a friend for roughly a decade, and I think it is just beyond the pale that he is endangering a friendship over a political disagreement. I don't think there is a solution, but it is helpful to vent. I hope he changes his mind.
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    Aug 30, 2012 2:45 AM GMT
    Sounds like you don't have much of a friend if he's quick to dump you over differences of political opinion. I have a number of friends with whom I don't agree politically, but who am I to belittle their voting choice? We get along just fine otherwise.
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    Aug 30, 2012 2:51 AM GMT
    nicodegallo saidSounds like you don't have much of a friend if he's quick to dump you over differences of political opinion.


    The problem is he has worked himself up into this self-righteous stance that everyone is either with him or against him. He essentially claims that supporting a) his right to get married and b) the DREAM Act (because he knows someone who is here illegally) are fundamental, and that not supporting them is tantamount to not supporting him personally.

    I support both - in fact my preferred candidate allows practically unlimited immigration with work visas, which is more liberal than Obama. But my friend has also decided that every non-Obama vote is equivalent to supporting Romney.

    I think he's taken several steps that I would say are totally unfair, but who knows. I mean does anyone else know people who have ended friendships over voting?
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    Aug 30, 2012 3:01 AM GMT
    That's just a really dumb reason to end a friendship. Unless your friend is looking for an excuse to dump you when it really might be because of something else. You never know sometimes.

    Relationships should end because they no longer work or because they're toxic.
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    Aug 30, 2012 3:12 AM GMT
    nicodegallo saidThat's just a really dumb reason to end a friendship. Unless your friend is looking for an excuse to dump you when it really might be because of something else. You never know sometimes.

    Relationships should end because they no longer work or because they're toxic.


    Maybe it's something else. But I doubt it, knowing him. I honestly think he's decided this is his Waterloo.
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    Aug 30, 2012 3:14 AM GMT
    If you really sure you want to save this friendship, just remind him that in actuality voting for the Libertarian party is the equivalent of voting for the Democrat party since your are essentially stealing votes away from Romney. icon_wink.gif

    (P.S. Also voting for Johnson here)
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    Aug 30, 2012 3:16 AM GMT
    He sounds like a bit of a delusional friend. Perhaps he's doing you a favor by removing himself from your life.

    (I happen to be intrigued by Gary Johnson too, btw)
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    Aug 30, 2012 3:21 AM GMT
    If you had the displeasure of seeing many of the angry, bitter messages in the political threads, you could guess he is not unique. Quite certain many of those guys would act the same as your "friend".
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    Aug 30, 2012 3:22 AM GMT
    IceBucket saidIf you really sure you want to save this friendship, just remind him that in actuality voting for the Libertarian party is the equivalent of voting for the Democrat party since your are essentially stealing votes away from Romney. icon_wink.gif

    (P.S. Also voting for Johnson here)


    Yeah, sorta. Gary also steals votes from the Dems too though. Especially people in this area who are *furious* about the dispensary raids. And people who are sick of fake tax code fixes. And people who are even more liberal on border policy than Obama. And so on.

    My friend literally has a statement where the chain of logic goes like this:

    Vote Not for Obama = Vote for Romney = Vote from Gay Person Against Gay Rights = Vote from Jewish Person for Hitler

    I am not kidding.
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    Aug 30, 2012 3:38 AM GMT
    nicodegallo saidHe sounds like a bit of a delusional friend. Perhaps he's doing you a favor by removing himself from your life.

    (I happen to be intrigued by Gary Johnson too, btw)


    Gary is amazing. If this were a sane country and we had some kind of ranked choice system, he'd be a serious contender.
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    Aug 30, 2012 3:40 AM GMT
    You're moving to California, right?

    Tell your friend that it doesn't matter; that state will go for Obama regardless.
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    Aug 30, 2012 3:44 AM GMT
    libertpaulian saidYou're moving to California, right?

    Tell your friend that it doesn't matter; that state will go for Obama regardless.


    This is a fair point, but he insists it's a moral obligation to vote for Obama regardless. As if I'm personally crapping all over his life by voting for Gary Johnson of all people.
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    Aug 30, 2012 3:46 AM GMT
    principal0 said
    nicodegallo saidHe sounds like a bit of a delusional friend. Perhaps he's doing you a favor by removing himself from your life.

    (I happen to be intrigued by Gary Johnson too, btw)


    Gary is amazing. If this were a sane country and we had some kind of ranked choice system, he'd be a serious contender.


    I've read a great deal of his platform on his campaign site. I have to say that I agree with many of his stances on various issues.

    His TV/Youtube campaign ads have been crap, though. They've been kinda dumb, haha.
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    Aug 30, 2012 3:51 AM GMT
    nicodegallo said
    principal0 said
    nicodegallo saidHe sounds like a bit of a delusional friend. Perhaps he's doing you a favor by removing himself from your life.

    (I happen to be intrigued by Gary Johnson too, btw)


    Gary is amazing. If this were a sane country and we had some kind of ranked choice system, he'd be a serious contender.


    I've read a great deal of his platform on his campaign site. I have to say that I agree with many of his stances on various issues.

    His TV/Youtube campaign ads have been crap, though. They've been kinda dumb, haha.


    Yeah, he needs the Ron Paul production guy. That would help loads.
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    Aug 30, 2012 12:13 PM GMT
    Booo Matt, Go Obama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • TroyAthlete

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    Aug 30, 2012 3:05 PM GMT
    Ha. I'm old enough to remember how Nader voters threw the election to Bush. That worked out pretty well. Hope they got their point across.

    Vote for Romney or Obama. Gary Johnson has no chance of winning the election. You might as well vote for Donald Duck: your vote is just as effective in either case.
  • TroyAthlete

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    Aug 30, 2012 3:39 PM GMT
    El_Crankodor saidBut it comes down to character. And yours is high-quality, despite your odd attraction to crackpot theories.


    It's an act. I have it on reliable sourcing that Matty is actually a horrible, horrible human being and baby-killer.
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    Aug 30, 2012 7:38 PM GMT
    Your so-called friend will dump you anyway eventually. Vote your conscience.
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    Aug 30, 2012 9:37 PM GMT
    TroyAthlete saidHa. I'm old enough to remember how Nader voters threw the election to Bush. That worked out pretty well. Hope they got their point across.

    Vote for Romney or Obama. Gary Johnson has no chance of winning the election. You might as well vote for Donald Duck: your vote is just as effective in either case.


    Just like Bush in 92. He would have beat Clinton if it wasn't for Ross Perot. So it happens to both sides. 3rd Party Candidates are important and you need to vote for who best represents you and not just to go with the rest of America. The 2 party system is a failure and nobody should be forced to vote for the party just because it is the lesser of two evils.
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    Aug 30, 2012 9:52 PM GMT
    dayumm saidYour so-called friend will dump you anyway eventually. Vote your conscience.




    THIS !!!!
  • TroyAthlete

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    Aug 30, 2012 10:02 PM GMT
    msuNtx said
    TroyAthlete saidHa. I'm old enough to remember how Nader voters threw the election to Bush. That worked out pretty well. Hope they got their point across.

    Vote for Romney or Obama. Gary Johnson has no chance of winning the election. You might as well vote for Donald Duck: your vote is just as effective in either case.


    Just like Bush in 92. He would have beat Clinton if it wasn't for Ross Perot. So it happens to both sides. 3rd Party Candidates are important and you need to vote for who best represents you and not just to go with the rest of America. The 2 party system is a failure and nobody should be forced to vote for the party just because it is the lesser of two evils.


    I get your point, but don't believe evidence suggested Perot voters would have automatically fallen to Bush I (or Dole in '96). Exit polls suggested they would have split in such a way that Clinton would have won anyway. Not so with Nader voters, who would have put Gore over the top.

    To my mind, the two-party system causes factions who would otherwise be divided to work together in order to defeat extremists. The alternative is a broken system like Britain's, in which it is almost impossible to form a functioning government due to party factionalism.

    Hold your nose and vote Democrat or Republican or don't come whining when a Bush gets elected because Al Gore isn't liberal enough (allegedly).
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    Aug 30, 2012 11:08 PM GMT
    TroyAthlete said
    msuNtx said
    TroyAthlete saidHa. I'm old enough to remember how Nader voters threw the election to Bush. That worked out pretty well. Hope they got their point across.

    Vote for Romney or Obama. Gary Johnson has no chance of winning the election. You might as well vote for Donald Duck: your vote is just as effective in either case.


    Just like Bush in 92. He would have beat Clinton if it wasn't for Ross Perot. So it happens to both sides. 3rd Party Candidates are important and you need to vote for who best represents you and not just to go with the rest of America. The 2 party system is a failure and nobody should be forced to vote for the party just because it is the lesser of two evils.


    I get your point, but don't believe evidence suggested Perot voters would have automatically fallen to Bush I (or Dole in '96). Exit polls suggested they would have split in such a way that Clinton would have won anyway. Not so with Nader voters, who would have put Gore over the top.

    To my mind, the two-party system causes factions who would otherwise be divided to work together in order to defeat extremists. The alternative is a broken system like Britain's, in which it is almost impossible to form a functioning government due to party factionalism.

    Hold your nose and vote Democrat or Republican or don't come whining when a Bush gets elected because Al Gore isn't liberal enough (allegedly).


    I tend to not believe in those polls. Perot changed the entire outcome of that election and brought up issues which killed Bush by many independents who went rushing to either Perot or Clinton. Remember at one time Bush had an 89% approval rating which is almost unheard of in today's times.
  • TroyAthlete

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    Aug 30, 2012 11:27 PM GMT
    msuNtx said
    I tend to not believe in those polls. Perot changed the entire outcome of that election and brought up issues which killed Bush by many independents who went rushing to either Perot or Clinton. Remember at one time Bush had an 89% approval rating which is almost unheard of in today's times.


    It was a temporary Gulf War bounce, not unlike Bush's 125% post 9/11 approval rating, haha. Sound and fury signifying nothing. Besides that, the fundamentals of Bush's re-election were never sound. My recollection was that Bush was always toast -- Perot or not. Clinton simply connected in a way that Bush never did; Bush had a problem with liberals and with independents, but also with his own base. He had no depth of support anywhere and no chance to win.

    You can always choose to ignore evidence that doesn't fit your chosen narrative, but the available evidence indicates that Clinton would have gotten to 270 electoral votes even if the Perot voters had split between him and his challengers in '92 and '96.

    If the Nader voters in Florida had voted for Gore, history would have changed.
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    Aug 31, 2012 12:02 AM GMT
    El_Crankodor saidMatt,

    Friendships are made of lots of things, including respect, affection, shared interests, loyalty, and a simple pleasure in the other's company---basically everything a romantic relationship involves, only without the wanting to hump each other for hours thingie.

    If one piece missing (in this case he's questioning your loyalty) is enough to torpedo the friendship, then the thing was too fragile to begin with. What would be next, demanding that you like shellfish as much as he does? Or horror movies?

    I understand that political stances are more consequential than movies or dining choices. But it comes down to character. And yours is high-quality, despite your odd attraction to crackpot theories.


    JP, you are fantastic. The whole experience has honestly made me wonder how strong some of my other relationships are with people that I disagree with politically.

    This did make me feel much better. Thank you.
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    Aug 31, 2012 12:03 AM GMT
    msuNtx saidBooo Matt, Go Obama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Quiet, you. icon_wink.gif