David Koch Supports Marriage Equality, And Thinks Raising Taxes & Cutting Defense May Be Necessary

  • metta

    Posts: 39138

    Aug 31, 2012 1:20 AM GMT
    David Koch Supports Marriage Equality

    " He told Politico that in addition to favoring marriage equality, he departs from the Republican orthodoxy by believing it may be necessary to consider raising taxes and cutting defense spending to balance the federal budget."


    http://www.advocate.com/politics/marriage-equality/2012/08/30/koch-brother-supports-marriage-equality
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    Aug 31, 2012 1:30 AM GMT
    Not shocking - he's a libertarian. I greatly admire the Koch brothers, as well as Peter Thiel and Elon Musk. They are heroes for our time.
  • t0theheights

    Posts: 428

    Aug 31, 2012 1:37 AM GMT
    principal0 saidNot shocking - he's a libertarian. I greatly admire the Koch brothers, as well as Peter Thiel and Elon Musk. They are heroes for our time.


    Even a stopped clock is right twice a day... heroes is a real stretch. 99% of what they do and support is evil. Although this shows even amidst ultimate corruption and greed, there's a glimmer of hope...
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    Aug 31, 2012 3:13 AM GMT
    principal0 saidNot shocking - he's a libertarian. I greatly admire the Koch brothers, as well as Peter Thiel and Elon Musk. They are heroes for our time.


    icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif Holy shit, that's hilarious! icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif
  • camfer

    Posts: 892

    Aug 31, 2012 3:15 AM GMT
    principal0 saidI greatly admire the Koch brothers, as well as Peter Thiel and Elon Musk. They are heroes for our time.


    Care to elaborate?
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    Aug 31, 2012 3:57 AM GMT
    credo said
    principal0 saidNot shocking - he's a libertarian. I greatly admire the Koch brothers, as well as Peter Thiel and Elon Musk. They are heroes for our time.


    icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif Holy shit, that's hilarious! icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif


    agreed, my heart actually just stopped
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    Aug 31, 2012 4:14 AM GMT
    homastj said
    credo said
    principal0 saidNot shocking - he's a libertarian. I greatly admire the Koch brothers, as well as Peter Thiel and Elon Musk. They are heroes for our time.


    icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif Holy shit, that's hilarious! icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif


    agreed, my heart actually just stopped





    Maybe there's a distant third cousin 5 times removed that they're talking about ? Ya-----spose ????
  • FitGwynedd

    Posts: 1468

    Aug 31, 2012 4:29 AM GMT
    t0theheights said
    principal0 saidNot shocking - he's a libertarian. I greatly admire the Koch brothers, as well as Peter Thiel and Elon Musk. They are heroes for our time.


    Even a stopped clock is right twice a day... heroes is a real stretch. 99% of what they do and support is evil. Although this shows even amidst ultimate corruption and greed, there's a glimmer of hope...


    I think the Koch brothers are the inspiration for the Simpsons character Monty Burns, or vice-versa.
  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Aug 31, 2012 4:40 AM GMT
    principal0 saidNot shocking - he's a libertarian. I greatly admire the Koch brothers, as well as Peter Thiel and Elon Musk. They are heroes for our time.


    Heroes for what? Donating billions to groups and politicians who actively deny equality and freedom to gay Americans?

    Ooooooooookay.
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    Aug 31, 2012 7:23 AM GMT
    FitGwynedd said
    t0theheights said
    principal0 saidNot shocking - he's a libertarian. I greatly admire the Koch brothers, as well as Peter Thiel and Elon Musk. They are heroes for our time.


    Even a stopped clock is right twice a day... heroes is a real stretch. 99% of what they do and support is evil. Although this shows even amidst ultimate corruption and greed, there's a glimmer of hope...


    I think the Koch brothers are the inspiration for the Simpsons character Monty Burns, or vice-versa.



    Haha!
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    Sep 01, 2012 12:43 AM GMT
    The elaboration is that the Koch brothers helped create the Cato Institute, have grown Koch Industries multiples beyond what it originally was when they started, and according to Conde Nast David Koch is, "one of the most generous but low-key philanthropists in America." When David Koch ran for VP in 1980, he advocated for LGBT equality. During the beginning of the AIDS epidemic. That's bolder than all the other politicians you want to praise for their recent discovery of LGBT rights.

    Peter Thiel and Elon Musk both are successful tech billionaires, of which there are a fair number. But what really differentiates them is that each is willing to make the sort of R&D bets on long-term projects that really propel society forward. Including philanthropic research. Instead of being one of the many billionaires who load money into pushing up stock prices in the secondary markets, they create novel products and technologies that impact the real economy. And they deserve a lot of credit for that.

    Peter is also gay, and as a successful, high-profile gay man I think he serves as a great role model.

    So yeah, I think they're heroes because they use the resources they have accumulated to go out and do real, interesting work instead of bullshit investing. I think they're uncommonly generous, but don't sit around telling you about how wonderful they are for it unlike many other people I could name. They have talent for real value creation that is admirable, and that I find worthy of aspiration. It is because of men like them that I have hope that our future will be brighter and kinder than the past.
  • Borski1992

    Posts: 153

    Sep 01, 2012 1:15 AM GMT
    principal0 saidThe elaboration is that the Koch brothers helped create the Cato Institute, have grown Koch Industries multiples beyond what it originally was when they started, and according to Conde Nast David Koch is, "one of the most generous but low-key philanthropists in America." When David Koch ran for VP in 1980, he advocated for LGBT equality. During the beginning of the AIDS epidemic. That's bolder than all the other politicians you want to praise for their recent discovery of LGBT rights.

    Peter Thiel and Elon Musk both are successful tech billionaires, of which there are a fair number. But what really differentiates them is that each is willing to make the sort of R&D bets on long-term projects that really propel society forward. Including philanthropic research. Instead of being one of the many billionaires who load money into pushing up stock prices in the secondary markets, they create novel products and technologies that impact the real economy. And they deserve a lot of credit for that.

    Peter is also gay, and as a successful, high-profile gay man I think he serves as a great role model.

    So yeah, I think they're heroes because they use the resources they have accumulated to go out and do real, interesting work instead of bullshit investing. I think they're uncommonly generous, but don't sit around telling you about how wonderful they are for it unlike many other people I could name. They have talent for real value creation that is admirable, and that I find worthy of aspiration. It is because of men like them that I have hope that our future will be brighter and kinder than the past.


    +1
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    Sep 01, 2012 4:24 AM GMT
    From Wikipedia:

    "Koch is skeptical about anthropogenic Global Warming, and thinks a warmer planet would be good because "[t]he Earth will be able to support enormously more people because a far greater land area will be available to produce food".

    Completely wrong and ridiculous. Global warming will cause there to be more droughts and famines of greater severity.

    And rising sea levels will decrease the amount of land available to humans, because it will be underwater. Many large areas of the world, such as most of the Floridian peninsula, will eventually be underwater. Say goodbye to all the islands and coastal regions.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Sep 01, 2012 4:54 AM GMT
    Don't be fooled ... it's a lie ... right now they are saying anything to get their candidate elected ... if you watche the RNC,and based your decisions on only the speakers they showed, you would have thought that the RNC was all minorities who were new to this country and had made had made it big through hard work and now Obama was going to take all they had made to achieve the American dream away. I think the minority speakers were half of all the minorities in the whole place. The monarchy are a crafty lot, that will do and say anything to fool the fiefdom. They will elevate a few sell outs of the fiefdom to convince the masses that they are ligit. The RNC was nothing more than pep rally for the rich ... not that there is anything wrong with that ... it's just time for them to stop getting away with all the tax loop holes they have set up and start paying their fair share and stop stepping on the back of the working class that got them to where they are.
  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Sep 01, 2012 5:02 AM GMT
    Actions speak louder than words. Until the Kochs stop donating to anti-equality politicians, no gay person or ally interested in freedom and equality for all should take their empty talk seriously.

    They are not heroes, they are financiers of the cause of bigotry. When they stop funding efforts to deny freedom to same-sex couples, then they should be reassessed.
  • DCguy2001

    Posts: 314

    Sep 01, 2012 5:23 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidDon't be fooled ... it's a lie ... right now they are saying anything to get their candidate elected


    There is plenty to criticize David Koch about. Tons of stuff. But...I don't think he's lying about personally supporting marriage equality. As detailed in the article below, he co-chaired a fundraiser for the four Republican state senators in New York who helped put marriage equality over the top in NY (and were subsequently targeted for defeat in primary challenges from the right).

    http://www.advocate.com/news/daily-news/2011/10/14/new-york-senate-republicans-thanked-marriage-vote-1-million
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    Sep 01, 2012 9:54 AM GMT
    TroyAthlete saidActions speak louder than words. Until the Kochs stop donating to anti-equality politicians, no gay person or ally interested in freedom and equality for all should take their empty talk seriously.

    They are not heroes, they are financiers of the cause of bigotry. When they stop funding efforts to deny freedom to same-sex couples, then they should be reassessed.


    The guy has been officially supporting LGBT rights longer than I've been alive. I think demanding that he be monodimensional in his policy considerations is a high hurdle. If anything, he has helped moderate the party on these issues, and continues to do so as he supported the four Republican New York senators who voted for marriage equality.

    And as for the anthropogenic global warming issue, I didn't say he was perfect. I don't agree with Koch down the line on every issue. But on many other, critical issues he is out ahead, all the while doing deeply productive work and funding fantastic charities without the PR effort of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.
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    Sep 01, 2012 12:01 PM GMT
    principal0 said
    TroyAthlete saidActions speak louder than words. Until the Kochs stop donating to anti-equality politicians, no gay person or ally interested in freedom and equality for all should take their empty talk seriously.

    They are not heroes, they are financiers of the cause of bigotry. When they stop funding efforts to deny freedom to same-sex couples, then they should be reassessed.


    The guy has been officially supporting LGBT rights longer than I've been alive. I think demanding that he be monodimensional in his policy considerations is a high hurdle. If anything, he has helped moderate the party on these issues, and continues to do so as he supported the four Republican New York senators who voted for marriage equality.

    And as for the anthropogenic global warming issue, I didn't say he was perfect. I don't agree with Koch down the line on every issue. But on many other, critical issues he is out ahead, all the while doing deeply productive work and funding fantastic charities without the PR effort of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.


    You're the perfect sucker ... must give one hell of a blowjob.

    It's funny how those who opposed certain social issues for years are suddenly in support of them.

    And don't insult me by saying the Koch's don't push millions of dollars into PR. I know for a fact that Koch's marketing spend far exceeds that of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

    Do a search on "Koch LGBT" and you'll see exactly how PR works.

    Then the truth tends to leak on occasion: http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/exposed-koch-brothers-karl-rovetea-party-coming-together-with-anti-gay-groups/politics/2012/08/29/47725
  • DCguy2001

    Posts: 314

    Sep 02, 2012 3:08 AM GMT
    credo saidIt's funny how those who opposed certain social issues for years are suddenly in support of them.


    That's how you prevail in a democracy: changing minds.

    (Having said that, the article you linked to was pretty disturbing. I knew David Koch was funding very conservative candidates, but I didn't realize he was also funding virulently anti-gay groups like FRC.)
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    Sep 04, 2012 5:39 AM GMT
    credo said
    principal0 said
    TroyAthlete saidActions speak louder than words. Until the Kochs stop donating to anti-equality politicians, no gay person or ally interested in freedom and equality for all should take their empty talk seriously.

    They are not heroes, they are financiers of the cause of bigotry. When they stop funding efforts to deny freedom to same-sex couples, then they should be reassessed.


    The guy has been officially supporting LGBT rights longer than I've been alive. I think demanding that he be monodimensional in his policy considerations is a high hurdle. If anything, he has helped moderate the party on these issues, and continues to do so as he supported the four Republican New York senators who voted for marriage equality.

    And as for the anthropogenic global warming issue, I didn't say he was perfect. I don't agree with Koch down the line on every issue. But on many other, critical issues he is out ahead, all the while doing deeply productive work and funding fantastic charities without the PR effort of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.


    You're the perfect sucker ... must give one hell of a blowjob.

    It's funny how those who opposed certain social issues for years are suddenly in support of them.

    And don't insult me by saying the Koch's don't push millions of dollars into PR. I know for a fact that Koch's marketing spend far exceeds that of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

    Do a search on "Koch LGBT" and you'll see exactly how PR works.

    Then the truth tends to leak on occasion: http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/exposed-koch-brothers-karl-rovetea-party-coming-together-with-anti-gay-groups/politics/2012/08/29/47725


    I suppose that's an interpretation. Or you could see that you're playing Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon here. David Koch gives money to Americans for Prosperity, which is definitely not an anti-gay hate group. In turn, AFP sometimes does events together with CWA, which says some pretty vile stuff but isn't focused on gay people enough to actually be called an anti-gay hate group per se by the Southern Poverty Law Center. But, the CWA sometimes works with the Family Research Council, which definitely is an anti-gay hate group.

    The connection is therefore obvious - David Koch gives money to people, who in turn talk to people, who talk to other people that really don't like teh gays. I have been so blind. Where is my God now, Moses?

    I suppose I'm way off when I look at his platform as a libertarian candidate in the 1980s, his own statements now and in 2010 in the New Yorker, and the fact that his counsel for Koch Industries also challenged Prop 8.

    Versus your circumstantial horseshit.
  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Sep 04, 2012 12:14 PM GMT
    principal0 said
    TroyAthlete saidActions speak louder than words. Until the Kochs stop donating to anti-equality politicians, no gay person or ally interested in freedom and equality for all should take their empty talk seriously.

    They are not heroes, they are financiers of the cause of bigotry. When they stop funding efforts to deny freedom to same-sex couples, then they should be reassessed.


    The guy has been officially supporting LGBT rights longer than I've been alive. I think demanding that he be monodimensional in his policy considerations is a high hurdle. If anything, he has helped moderate the party on these issues, and continues to do so as he supported the four Republican New York senators who voted for marriage equality.

    And as for the anthropogenic global warming issue, I didn't say he was perfect. I don't agree with Koch down the line on every issue. But on many other, critical issues he is out ahead, all the while doing deeply productive work and funding fantastic charities without the PR effort of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.


    Spin and BS. It is not a high hurdle at all to expect consistency and congruency between one's words and actions. To wit: you can claim to support civil rights, but if you funnel billions to the KKK, it is a "high hurdle" to expect anyone to take your claims seriously.

    Similarly, as long as the Kochs continue to support persons and institutions that actively seek to deny rights to gays -- which they are doing right now, long after I've been born -- then nobody can take seriously their empty lip service to gay rights. As the GOP just adopted the most stridently anti-gay platform in history, your claim that they helped moderate the party is just silly, desperate wishful thinking. What they have done is enable with money the right's agenda of gay hatred: they are not friends of gay people. Not even close.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14360

    Sep 04, 2012 2:40 PM GMT
    metta8 saidDavid Koch Supports Marriage Equality

    " He told Politico that in addition to favoring marriage equality, he departs from the Republican orthodoxy by believing it may be necessary to consider raising taxes and cutting defense spending to balance the federal budget."


    http://www.advocate.com/politics/marriage-equality/2012/08/30/koch-brother-supports-marriage-equality
    Finally some common sense coming from the wealthy 1%. It is high time that libertarian thinkers like David Koch formed political committees to take over the GOP and give both the war mongering neocons and the narrow minded, bible thumping screwballs a notice that they don't control the GOP anymore. He also needs to publicly expose the blantant hypocrisy of James Dobson and his personal crisis empire known as Focus on the Family.
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    Sep 04, 2012 2:55 PM GMT
    Yep! Can't figure out why there's so much animus against the Koch bros! And yes, only a combination of both cutting and defense cuts and tax increases may be necessary to reverse this whole thing.
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    Sep 04, 2012 2:58 PM GMT
    TroyAthlete said
    principal0 said
    TroyAthlete saidActions speak louder than words. Until the Kochs stop donating to anti-equality politicians, no gay person or ally interested in freedom and equality for all should take their empty talk seriously.

    They are not heroes, they are financiers of the cause of bigotry. When they stop funding efforts to deny freedom to same-sex couples, then they should be reassessed.


    The guy has been officially supporting LGBT rights longer than I've been alive. I think demanding that he be monodimensional in his policy considerations is a high hurdle. If anything, he has helped moderate the party on these issues, and continues to do so as he supported the four Republican New York senators who voted for marriage equality.

    And as for the anthropogenic global warming issue, I didn't say he was perfect. I don't agree with Koch down the line on every issue. But on many other, critical issues he is out ahead, all the while doing deeply productive work and funding fantastic charities without the PR effort of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.


    Spin and BS. It is not a high hurdle at all to expect consistency and congruency between one's words and actions. To wit: you can claim to support civil rights, but if you funnel billions to the KKK, it is a "high hurdle" to expect anyone to take your claims seriously.

    Similarly, as long as the Kochs continue to support persons and institutions that actively seek to deny rights to gays -- which they are doing right now, long after I've been born -- then nobody can take seriously their empty lip service to gay rights. As the GOP just adopted the most stridently anti-gay platform in history, your claim that they helped moderate the party is just silly, desperate wishful thinking. What they have done is enable with money the right's agenda of gay hatred: they are not friends of gay people. Not even close.


    God you really need to lay off the crack.
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    Sep 04, 2012 3:37 PM GMT
    principal0 said
    credo said
    principal0 said
    TroyAthlete saidActions speak louder than words. Until the Kochs stop donating to anti-equality politicians, no gay person or ally interested in freedom and equality for all should take their empty talk seriously.

    They are not heroes, they are financiers of the cause of bigotry. When they stop funding efforts to deny freedom to same-sex couples, then they should be reassessed.


    The guy has been officially supporting LGBT rights longer than I've been alive. I think demanding that he be monodimensional in his policy considerations is a high hurdle. If anything, he has helped moderate the party on these issues, and continues to do so as he supported the four Republican New York senators who voted for marriage equality.

    And as for the anthropogenic global warming issue, I didn't say he was perfect. I don't agree with Koch down the line on every issue. But on many other, critical issues he is out ahead, all the while doing deeply productive work and funding fantastic charities without the PR effort of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.


    You're the perfect sucker ... must give one hell of a blowjob.

    It's funny how those who opposed certain social issues for years are suddenly in support of them.

    And don't insult me by saying the Koch's don't push millions of dollars into PR. I know for a fact that Koch's marketing spend far exceeds that of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

    Do a search on "Koch LGBT" and you'll see exactly how PR works.

    Then the truth tends to leak on occasion: http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/exposed-koch-brothers-karl-rovetea-party-coming-together-with-anti-gay-groups/politics/2012/08/29/47725


    I suppose that's an interpretation. Or you could see that you're playing Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon here. David Koch gives money to Americans for Prosperity, which is definitely not an anti-gay hate group. In turn, AFP sometimes does events together with CWA, which says some pretty vile stuff but isn't focused on gay people enough to actually be called an anti-gay hate group per se by the Southern Poverty Law Center. But, the CWA sometimes works with the Family Research Council, which definitely is an anti-gay hate group.

    The connection is therefore obvious - David Koch gives money to people, who in turn talk to people, who talk to other people that really don't like teh gays. I have been so blind. Where is my God now, Moses?

    I suppose I'm way off when I look at his platform as a libertarian candidate in the 1980s, his own statements now and in 2010 in the New Yorker, and the fact that his counsel for Koch Industries also challenged Prop 8.

    Versus your circumstantial horseshit.


    Creative writing isn't your strong suit, but I'll give you an A for effort.

    It would seem that your examples are full of more circumstantial horseshit than mine. The fact that David Koch sides with the Republican Party, and the fact that David Koch gives large sums of money to anti-gay, "pro-family" groups (yes, he knows where his money is going) means nothing? He tells the masses that he supports the issues important to them, while he financially supports those who are against those issues. He talks the talk, but he doesn't walk the walk.

    And is it merely a coincidence that David Koch's PR machine hit the media hard over the past several weeks to tout his alleged pro-human rights position? icon_rolleyes.gif

    Your naivety is cute.