The Man Meat Market.

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    Sep 01, 2012 12:22 AM GMT
    The other day I was sitting in traffic with one of my best friends. I tell her, “I’m over dating you know.” She says, “You expect too much from too little.” I’m like, “What?” She says, “Well look at the guys in West Hollywood. They are all Ken Dolls, so plastic and looking for the next best thing.” Mind you that we are in her red Mercedes Benz. I said, “Everyone here is like that.” She says, “Not true! We live like that because we mold ourselves to fit in, but we are not all like that.” She goes on to say, “You love to look nice and go out but I know that you have a good heart. You would climb mountains for your friends and you’re always there for us. Now those Ken Dolls out there are not like you.” I felt so good at that moment, because I realized my friends really see me for me. They know I would give them my liver if it came to that point.

    After a very long conversation I tell her, “I’m going to sign up to one of those gay dating sites.” I mean they say when in Rome do like the Romans, so I might as well follow the crowd for once in my life. She says, “Go ahead! What can you really lose?” “My dignity,” I replied. We sat there laughing for a minute. We get home, I sign up, and the hunt begins. Unfortunately a profile on the site I signed up for takes like a couple of hours to approve so we had to wait till the next day.

    The next day she comes over to my house and we log on to what she likes to call, “My dick catalog.” As we skim through the cyber pages of this infamous “dick catalog” I start to realize that a whole lot of people have a profile on there. Friends, acquaintances, people I see out at the clubs, and even guys who I didn’t think would have one because they have a boyfriend. Luckily she has an opened mind because the pictures on some of these profiles are a bit intense. I mean some of them look like they should be on a porn magazine; actually some look like they shouldn’t be online period. As we continue to look around and read profiles we realize that these guys are looking for a quick fix. Although the site is intended to meet guys – the gays have turned it into a quick fix hook up arena, which is not uncommon seeing that testosterone runs in our veins.

    My friend who is absolutely intelligent (a law student I must add) says, “This is crap!” I’m like, “What?” “This is all crap! You don’t go to Nordstroms to buy your tomatoes.” I looked at her with a puzzled face. How can she compare with the “dick catalog,” it wasn’t making any sense. “All these guys are on here with crazy descriptions like, ‘meet, cum, go,’ yet they want a relationship in real life. Then other ones say, ‘here to find fun and maybe a boyfriend,’ like seriously? You don’t sign up for this website to find a boyfriend – just like you don’t go to Nordstroms to buy your tomatoes.”

    Although I understood her argument and her points, I wasn’t totally convinced because several of my guy friends have met a boyfriend through these sites. I mean… it’s one of those one in a million sort of deals, but at the same time if several of my friends found “love,” why can’t I?

    I sat there thinking of the many points she brought up and I had no way to convince myself that she was wrong. I’ve gone out on several dates with guys who want a relationship yet I found their profiles on this site stating that they are looking for “quick fun.” So are they really looking to date or are they looking for a hook up? I understand that for a quick fix the Internet is the place to go, but what about intimacy and substance?

    In an effort to find a decent online dating site I signed up for like 5 and they were all literally hook up sites. I mean everything the gays touch has become sexually driven, which is not a bad thing, but man does it get frustrating.

    So in conclusion most of these gay sites are man meat markets. You log on, meet up, and get off. Or as that one person had it, “Meet, cum, and go.” There is NOTHING wrong with man meat markets and there is nothing wrong with a little “she bang she bang” here and there, but if you’re looking for a site that has substance you need to browse around. As a gay man I can say that gay men use sex liberally. It is like showering or shopping to “us”. I have tons of girlfriends and they always talk about sex like it is sacred and special. Some of them only have sex after several dates and some have sex with guys after several drinks. In the gay culture I’ve notice that “we” have sex with other guys after several online messages which usually consist of, “Hi, how are you?, where are you, penis size?, let’s meet.”

    So here is a question: What are guys who are trying to date suppose to do? If all the guys we see out at the clubs/bars are on these hook up sites, then what? Can a guy really go from hooking up and having options to being just monogamous?
  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    Sep 01, 2012 1:26 AM GMT
    No silly. Most of them have fake pix online. The guys in the chatroom are there because they have psychological issues. There's reallly only me left :-)
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    Sep 01, 2012 1:54 AM GMT
    Judging from the thread title, I was hoping to find directions. icon_sad.gif
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    Sep 01, 2012 1:58 AM GMT
    paulflexes saidJudging from the thread title, I was hoping to find directions. icon_sad.gif


    Or at least an address I could Google....
  • slimnmuscly

    Posts: 541

    Sep 01, 2012 2:12 AM GMT
    Just as you don't go to Nordstrom's to buy tomatoes, you don't go to a straight woman for advice about gay men's sex, dating and relationships.
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    Sep 01, 2012 2:16 AM GMT
    slimnmuscly saidJust as you don't go to Nordstrom's to buy tomatoes, you don't go to a straight woman for advice about gay men's sex, dating and relationships.


    /thread

    icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif
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    Sep 01, 2012 2:21 AM GMT
    AleksandrD said
    So here is a question: What are guys who are trying to date suppose to do? If all the guys we see out at the clubs/bars are on these hook up sites, then what? Can a guy really go from hooking up and having options to being just monogamous?


    Guys who are trying to date should continue trying to date.. remain true to who you are and how you are and that will ward off many of those who are just looking for a quick fix. Just like racism and rudeness.. if it isn't in you, it won't come out of you. If it is not in you to be a whore, it won't come out of you.

    I think that it can be challenging to find a good man, however it's not hard to avoid hooking up with everyone. Just simply don't. It's a small world afterall, and I believe that many of the good gay guys perhaps don't even come online often if at all. From what I've heard, the same people are on every site. I'm just a part of this one so I wouldn't know. I, like your girlfriend desire and REQUIRE dates if a guy wants to be with me seriously. I believe in flirting, persuing, wooing, courtship, etc. I mean even many animals of the world seemingly engage in more courtship than guys. You can't hate a loose man for doing what he does.. It's up to you to expect more and to never settle for less than what you want, need, and deserve. icon_smile.gif

    The saying is that you can't turn a whore into a housewife/husband. some people have been hooking up for so long that they simply do not know how to be in a relationship. I do believe in the power of love though.. I believe that love can conquer and make a man want to be monogamous.
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    Sep 01, 2012 2:27 AM GMT
    Da fuq he just say?
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    Sep 01, 2012 2:58 AM GMT
    OP..you have to slow down.. The speed at which you seem to be looking for a meaningful monogamous relationship is the same speed as which other guys are looking for a hookup...
    ..I've seen you other posts..you seem frustrated, discouraged and frankly impatient.

    ..I think you are so overwhelmed with all the negatives in the gay dating scene that you would not recognize anything positives if they sat on your face! So yes it’s rough, tedious and a giant pain in the ass but there is no need to frustrate your self even more..!

    Try expanding your circle of gay friends; get involved in a local GLBT project, or just be patient!
    If you sign up on a gay dating site… a quick scan will probably not produce “your special guy”

    Hint...while you’re focus more on making some good friends.. participate in the forums a little more..you’ll be surprised where that gets you!

  • JosephC

    Posts: 92

    Sep 01, 2012 3:17 AM GMT
    slimnmuscly saidJust as you don't go to Nordstrom's to buy tomatoes, you don't go to a straight woman for advice about gay men's sex, dating and relationships.
    Amen to that!
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    Sep 01, 2012 3:27 AM GMT
    AleksandrD said

    So in conclusion most of these gay sites are man meat markets. You log on, meet up, and get off. Or as that one person had it, “Meet, cum, and go.” There is NOTHING wrong with man meat markets and there is nothing wrong with a little “she bang she bang” here and there, but if you’re looking for a site that has substance you need to browse around. As a gay man I can say that gay men use sex liberally. It is like showering or shopping to “us”. I have tons of girlfriends and they always talk about sex like it is sacred and special. Some of them only have sex after several dates and some have sex with guys after several drinks. In the gay culture I’ve notice that “we” have sex with other guys after several online messages which usually consist of, “Hi, how are you?, where are you, penis size?, let’s meet.”

    So here is a question: What are guys who are trying to date suppose to do? If all the guys we see out at the clubs/bars are on these hook up sites, then what? Can a guy really go from hooking up and having options to being just monogamous?


    Thanks for sharing that. It always makes me smile to know there are others having this kind of conversation somewhere in the world, outside of the world. icon_smile.gif

    That said, your law friend is correct, at least in some parts. You see, Grindr, Jack'd and all (arguably) had a modest model of providing a place for gay/bi/curious men to meet, talk, chat, and get to know each other. Problem is, they only get to know each other these days-- Biblically. There is no "chatting" there is no "talking" outside of "hey" or "how big r u" or "top/btm?"

    To blame the environment is like (bear with this example for those of you anti-gun) blaming guns for killing people. It ignores the person completely behind the trigger wielding the loaded gun. It's the gays who are like that! Not the environment; they bring "whore" with them no matter where they go.

    So the question is, as you asked, how do you go about make this right? How does one remedy the situation so not to get caught in the vacuous undertows created by the dregs of LGBTQ? Good question. People have suggested everything from bars, to going to coffee shops and 'waiting' around for someone, to finding social groups that are tied to your interest, to letting him come to you (like he'll somehow fly in on some magical carpet :rollicon_smile.gif all kinds of different things. The reality is none of these solutions guarantee a winner. Online dating is, perhaps, the more available method but not necessarily always the most successful. Distance/Location may be an issue as well to consider, as your friend pointed out about West Hollywood. icon_smile.gif

    Finding people like yourself, especially the more eclectic you are, is impossible-- at least in my experience. icon_smile.gif There is a difference between awareness and self-awareness. There is also a difference between self-awareness and empathy. For a person to be date-worthy, in my book, awareness of the self, and empathy are essential. Awareness or knowledge of the world is not mandatory, as odd that sounds.

    Can a guy change from being a whore to committed? Certainly! If that's what he really and truly wants. The question is, does he really want it? That requires awareness of the self (among other things).

    Personally, I think RJ is a nice place to meet people, if you're interested.

    On a conclusive note, Watch the movies "East Side Boys" and "Is it Just me"? They're both on Netflix and, I think, you'll be able to relate to both of them to a degree (East Side boys talks about East Hollywood).
  • kencarson

    Posts: 224

    Sep 01, 2012 3:36 AM GMT
    I personally like OKCupid.com

    So far I've met a lot of guys on there who are interested in meeting for a drink instead of a fuck.

    I think it will be about finding the right venues/sites with men who are looking for dating.

    Stay clear of the notoriously slutty ones (i.e. Grindr, Manhunt, Adam 4 Adam) and stick to the sites who preach "finding a relationship" such as OKCupid, or Match.com.
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    Sep 01, 2012 3:37 AM GMT
    I keep hearing this over and over...and it's probably true but I guess I don't see the big deal yet. I mean I'd like a relationship down the road I guess but I'm not there yet. Also, just b/c a site is geared towards a hook-up doesn't mean you won't find someone on there who is looking for a relationship. I think the in long-run everyone is... Don't limit yourself and like someone said earlier definitely don't take advice from this woman! Whenever I tell my straight friends about gay stuff they think I'm insane LOL.
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    Sep 01, 2012 4:51 AM GMT
    These are two minutes I'll never get back. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Sep 01, 2012 4:53 AM GMT
    Just a wild guess, is it "The Farmer's Market?"
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    Sep 01, 2012 5:00 AM GMT
    Dude, you complain about dating and relationships, but yet you live in a gayborhood where there are thousands of gays out and in the open, and yet you can't get a date, or land a relationship. I'd be glad to trade places with you as trying to get a date in my neck of the woods is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

    I would die to have just one date, just one date, but then when I meet someone on line, it's the usual response, "Oh, it's too bad we don't live closer." Really, you think so? ".....or all they want is to j/o on line.

    What ever happened when women would stay with a man and then the man got shipped off to war and they remained in touch by letter writing and not knowing whether their fiancee or husband to be would ever come back alive, but yet they "stood by their man", which was a quality that I love about the Greatest Generation that Ever Lived.

    The gay culture doesn't have the patience or time to date a man that doesn't live within their 50 mile radius. It's true as I've talked to many of gay men and they won't go outside their 50 mile comfort zone. So in other words, they continue to be stuck in the mud and don't reaaaaaly want to expand their circle of friends, because God forbid, that might require them to get to know someone just a little too far form their comfort zone, but yet I hear the constant whining of "why doesn't anyone date me or like me?

    I email guys on here alot and for about every 10 emails I get usually one response back. One...and I think I'm not a bad catch, but men are vain and very visually oriented. They have a difficult time seeing past the surface and truly discovering what's underneath (....and you know what I mean by that).

    My only advise, take one day at a time and live in the moment because that is when you will least expect it. Some man WILL recognize you for who you are as an individual that mirrors qualities that he finds appealing. So don't give up hope, be patient, and yes, put yourself out there and date lots of men, even if its not meant to last into an LTR. Be active. Be out there. Get involved in your community. It's all about connections as someone knows someone who knows someone...you get the point. Best wishes.
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    Sep 01, 2012 6:02 AM GMT
    I tried Chemistry.com before, and I found some quality guys on there...probably because one needs to pay for membership on that site. However, I don't know as to what sites the OP was referring (I couldn't read that far). Were any mentioned?
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    Sep 01, 2012 8:10 AM GMT
    Interesting topic and courteous argument.
    I would say " Patience is a virtue. All good things come to those who wait...? " icon_wink.gif
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    Sep 01, 2012 9:49 AM GMT
    You live in WeHo. Seriously, the next time you meet someone that seems cool just tell them that you can't tell their orientation but do they want to go grab a coffee or drink some time? Unless straight of course.
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    Sep 01, 2012 11:06 AM GMT
    I don't want to hurt you but I need to breathe.....

    At the end of it all, you're still like my best friend...

    But there's something inside that I need to release....

    Which way is right, which way is wrong,....

    How do I say that I need to move onnn...

    You know we're heading separate waaaays...

    And it feels like I am "just" too close to love you..

    There's nothing I can really say...
    icon_lol.gif


    man chill! you're so intense! icon_rolleyes.gif ill borrow what Heli said
    Heli" Patience is a virtue. All good things come to those who wait...icon_wink.gif "
    alright!
  • JosephC

    Posts: 92

    Sep 01, 2012 1:20 PM GMT
    Yeah but how long must I wait? 30? 40? I'm not saying it doesn't happen late in your life nor is that any less fantastic for those who do but I want to spend my life with the person I love, all my life. I think I am one of the few people who actually still believe in love, especially as a gay man. People don't realize that I would "stand by my man" because I would make whoever I love the happiest guy in the world, and the same would go for him. I must say, I joined this site (agaianst all better judgement or my pride lol) in hopes of broadening my reach towards the gay men arround me. And like someone had stated if I were to send out 10 emails I'd only get 1 reply and even after talking to that person I realize how boring and not interested they are. Only met two decent guys on here and I know it's not me because when I go out, I get hit on! Not to sound stuck up but it's because people see my personality my body language not just a still frame shot of me and I do the same for the guys I meet.
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    Sep 01, 2012 1:35 PM GMT
    JosephC saidYeah but how long must I wait? 30? 40? I'm not saying it doesn't happen late in your life nor is that any less fantastic for those who do but I want to spend my life with the person I love, all my life. I think I am one of the few people who actually still believe in love, especially as a gay man. People don't realize that I would "stand by my man" because I would make whoever I love the happiest guy in the world, and the same would go for him. I must say, I joined this site (agaianst all better judgement or my pride lol) in hopes of broadening my reach towards the gay men arround me. And like someone had stated if I were to send out 10 emails I'd only get 1 reply and even after talking to that person I realize how boring and not interested they are. Only met two decent guys on here and I know it's not me because when I go out, I get hit on! Not to sound stuck up but it's because people see my personality my body language not just a still frame shot of me and I do the same for the guys I meet.


    Good question! icon_smile.gif Of course no one can give you a definitive answer written in stone. It all depends on what you're looking for and if you're in the right area to find it. You and I both live in Dallas and personally I haven't always had the best of luck. I wish I had a car so I could but I don't necessarily even know then if that would change things definitively, and picking up guys at the bars isn't my thing even if I do enjoy dancing.

    Mostly everyone wants to find those things: love, companionship, peace, stability. Most gay men simply don't know what these things are unfortunately.

    I can relate to not wanting to join this website, going against my judgment to do so; however, so far, I think it's been worth my time here. icon_smile.gif I've got to meet nice people and talk to them on here. Not everyone here is concerned with getting in my bed but there are those who do-- which is flattering in thought if nothing else! ;)

    Ultimately, I think, like everyone else has been saying, just be patient with it. You'll find the right guy when you do. icon_smile.gif Don't give up hope and good luck!
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    Sep 01, 2012 1:47 PM GMT
    GigoloAssassin saidThese are two minutes I'll never get back. icon_rolleyes.gif


    It only took you 2 minutes to read through all of that? Damn, I thought I was a fast reader.
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    Sep 01, 2012 2:00 PM GMT
    OP: yes, you're right. your friend is right too. you may be using the wrong websites to find what you're looking for. its also possible that WEHO is the epicentre of the downfall of humanity, and that the fabled "long term relationship" is a unicorn that has long been slaughtered to extinction.

    seriously. statistically, we have entered a socioeconomic change in this past decade. there are now more single people in the population than people in relationships. part of this is due to better gender equality in the last 60years, and part of this is the effect of an increasingly hard to satisfy generation of hyper-consuming people who want- and can have it all, such that they don't know where to stop.

    the dick catalog works!
    i'm not the best person to advise you on this (being single now for nearly 3yrs since the end of my LTR), but i have a feeling that we're in this together in what we want. the trick is not falling into the trap of the online dick catalog. those websites are not a public service. they are in it to make money, and so they are designed in a way to funnel people into submitting your own photos to create their dick catalog! they do so by appealing to your basic sexual urges and visual stimulation. so you keep coming back, and you get sucked into their monetized world of bigger thumbnails, unlimited messaging, blocking/filtering options, and notification subscriptions. the dick catalog really works! it works for the dick catalog companies, and it gives its patrons the option to hook-up. thats it. it promises nothing more, nothing less. but is that good enough?

    you have 2 options:

    1) if you can't beat 'em, join 'em - but don't blame anyone for how unsatisfying, vapid, superficial, and short-lived your experiences will be. its really just meet, cum, and go... its like going to a bath house to hook-up, except the bath house is your home, and you'll be left scratching your head, taking numerous showers, visiting the clinic, and thinking WTF?

    2) step up your game - get good at marketing yourself in real life, online life, and professional life, social life, and everywhere else. this means being really honest and upfront about who you are, what you're looking for, how you're going to develop it, and committing to walking on a longer, slower path. this is very difficult though, because it requires a balance of self-awareness, iron-clad morals, unwavering conviction, childish innocence, and self-preservation.
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    Sep 01, 2012 2:10 PM GMT
    p.s. i think you're a good writer, and have a gift for the narrative. you kept me reading your entire original post!